[xelasnave]

Ron perhaps I sound more sceptical than I really am because all that I mean to convey is simply somethings I find difficult to believe, or accept.
I like to think of myself as reasonable and think that I make concessions possibly that go unnoticed because one can focus negatively on the strength of the examples offered.
I think my reply and discussion with Steve must show that I am more looking for answers to things that concern me than to say everything is simply wrong.
When I question the possibility of a black hole I merely traced my knowledge and where I found difficulties in acceptance.
Now Steve offered something new to me..a star passing in front of a black hole.. now although I have not read anything yet about that observation that new piece of information makes me feel more comfortable.
I say I am not easily convinced but really that is perhaps not so.. If someone I respect tells me something I often accept that simply because I think they are not going to let something past that is unreasonable.
I don't think I have said at any point I simply do not believe that a black hole exists but merely questioned if the black hole was born on paper and asks us to accept that there is a point where the laws break down could there not be a proposition that notwithstanding what will happen if that point is reached could in fact that point in fact possibly not be reached.
That was the real question..yet I still await someone to say... no there is no question about that ..the mass we observe in a SN all goes into the collapse so there is no question about the mass present.. from that answer I would say ..fair enough ..just thought I would ask.
I can understand that given my rambling style that key point could go unnoticed.
So I say this in an effort to clarify the position... the theory in the event of the mass required being present in the collapse I see no reason why the black hole would not form.
I don't think my short "Island" example is unreasonable to demonstrate how in a very simple situation the math can be spot on but unknown factors may influence the result.
Calling for DNA would not be an option if one came from a race where they have no idea about reproduction.. If you wanted to tear that example apart you probably could have pointed out that there must be some reproduction process available to our alien group and they would have taken that into account..just because they are mono sexual would not preclude reproduction one would think for their species. So easy to guide people past the obvious I find and I apologize for being so slick guiding the reader past the obvious..
and I would like to think that little demonstration of slickness further supports a proposition that it is so easy not to include all the relevant input in ones calculations.
An advantage of being verbose.. the reader wil get impatient to get to the meat of the paragraph and not see the small subtleties.
alex