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Originally Posted by The_bluester
I think you can regard the fact that In the main, coal fired generation in Australia we're state owned and built with taxpayer funds to say that they were extremely heavily subsidised.
The NBN comparison is meaningless, though perhaps not quite. Given that there is little to no interest in building new coal fired capacity by the companies that largely own the existing ones, who but the government would build them? Or who else would build them without huge subsidies and shifting of risk to the public purse?
Given the above from Gary regards the operating costs of various methods of generating power, what do you suggest as an alternative to building more coal fired power as the existing plants age and shut down? There is no point in railing about energy costs and renewable unless you actually have some idea how to drive down energy prices.
As for pumped hydro being reliant on old and maligned technologies, it is a big, fat, wet battery, the source of the energy it is storing up the hill is not relevant to it, but what it does do is allow for non traditional power sources to be used, overcoming the "intermittency" that the Feds love to tell us over and over again is the "We'l all be Rooned" downfall of any and all renewable sources of energy. Hell, they would even be able to help coal fired stations with their still existent base load issue by "consuming" energy overnight when the generators would really rather not have to test out the PID settings to ramp the boilers down and back up again and then release it over the day when demand starts to outstrip supply. There is probably even money to be made trading energy like that, and unless you suggest re nationalising power or providing subsidies, making it possible to make money is the only way things will happen.
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The mechanism for pumped Hydro is this....
I) When power is cheap water is pumped uphill
II) When power is expensive you run the water downhill make more power and then sell that power.
III) It's not Pumped Hydro it is "Wet energy trading" therefore limited by the differential between buying & selling, the closer those two points, the less desirable "Wet energy trading" can quickly achieve negative returns.
IV) The Grid does not discriminate between any form of electricity generation, for the purists out there, indeed even the mighty Hydro Scheme may draw on power generated by coal.
My apparent criticism of Pumped Hydro is just that apparent. Pumped Hydro may be costly, but at least it's not going to be a black hole. At worst we can use it reticulate water during drought at best it will generate some cheaper power whilst employing our existing grid and be recouping the cost of construction and make it appear the LNP is doing something, that's a 5/10 outcome.
Interesting.... I have never once proposed that Coal is a good thing. Having spent many winters in Beijing I can assure unconstrained use of Coal is a dirty, smelly, business.
I mentioned the NBN because our Nation cannot afford a repeat of the profligate and flamboyant spending that's characterized the NBN. We need to back a winner, for the sake of our children we must move away from Carbon based tech, but not before a viable alternative is found and as of yet that alternative hasn't been found until that time we have no alternative but to use Fossil Fuels efficiently.
The closest we have found to a safe and secure alternative is Nuclear but the Green's killed off Nuclear in the 1970's and 1980's in this the Green's are responsible for much of the Carbon floating around in our ever-warming atmosphere. Green's complaining about Global Warming is a little like Ben Cropp talking about saving the Grey Nurse from overfishing if only a Crocodile had so many tears.
It is a ridiculous notion that the Premier of South Australia is going to find the answer to the Worldwide Power crisis & save the planet. If the SA Premier wants some half-arsed NBN Powered Star Sprinkles Power Scheme he should have to pay for it out of his own Super. The last time I heard anything as absurd as this proposal was the Multifunction Polis (MFP) for Adelaide, what a cracker that one was!
Maybe there will be a Super Battery and maybe it will resolve the World's energy storage problem, but it hasn't happened yet... Maybe there is a super efficient Windmill, but it hasn't happened yet... Or a Biogas generator that will save the "bacon" but it hasn't happened yet!
What I do know is this.... My Mother in Law has chilblains because she is scared of turning on her larger heater, and uses instead a little bar heater on her feet, hence the chilblains, her story isn't unique. In 2017 her story in inexcusable whilst the privileged are enjoying Solar power subsidies.
The only answer I have in the short term is.... use energy dense fuel sources efficiently. By way of a cautionary note: beware spending money on snake oil as it will buy you Hyperloops