I thought I was going to abstain from this one . . . but here goes.
I wonder what everyone's opinion from both sides thinks of the philosophical argument in this article.
http://theconversation.com/ordering-...our-hands-4659
I've seen this argument better quantified elsewhere - but the fact is that vegetarians who eat agriculturally farmed produce of any sort are contributing to the death of organisms from microbes to mammals due to habitat destruction at a minimum, and even if they were weren't eating farmed food, they would be competing against the native animals that would have otherwise been eating the same vegetable matter they removed from the natural environment, thus starving and creating food pressure for them.
Either way humans are doing this.
I do think that there is a failure in the starting assumption that the natural world is supposed to be a "kind" place - predation is a fundamental process at almost every level of the animal kingdom, and it has been this way for millions if not billions of years.
To argue against it is not dissimilar to creating a movement that says we shouldn't allow the Earth to spin or the tides to rise and fall.
This is the way it is and it has nothing to do with us or our beliefs.
I agree that death or injury for no reason isnt tenable, but a vast number of the species on this planet evolved to eat other species - you can choose to dislike it, just like you mightn't like Purple and Orange together. Thats OK - but dont then translate that dislike to everything else associated with it if you arent able to deal with that reality.
I breathe in air which include oxygen, I consume energy and exhale some CO2 - doesnt make me personally bad !
But yes, a few billion less humans wouldnt be so bad for the natural world and that is where the focus ought to be in IMHO.
At some substantially lower population level we might be able to exist with a greater level of harmony with the other inhabitants of this planet - be they whales or microbes.
That could only be a good thing - if it could be done without some sort of armageddon !
But to intimate that meat eaters and specifically fishers and hunters are therefore cruel, arrogant people and should become vegans is about as hypocritical as anything can be.
I have no specific need to criticise Les or anyone - he is entitled to his beliefs, opinions and certainly his likes and dislikes.
In fact my beliefs aren't so vastly different, and I respect anyone that has respect for animals and helps them, but just because I also eat them, sometimes hunt them, doesnt mean that I dont have respect for them and doesnt mean that I am intentionally cruel to them.
Regards
Rally