n00b with no clue needs some help

[Rebelsound]

Hey everyone,
My girlfriend is interested in amateur astronomy and has done some courses on astronomy through the observatory in Sydney. We spend alot of time in Illford and I think there is an astronomical society she wants to join out that way. I want to get her a telescope for christmas but have no idea what to buy. I have a budget of about $2500. I know nothing of brand, types, uses for gazing etc. Am I better letting her pick the telescope? Or can you guys help me find a good telescope for Said price so it can be a surprise.
Thanks in advance.
Scott

[Shark Bait]

Lucky Lady.

Do you know if she is into Refractors, Reflectors or SCT's.

Refractors are the long (or short) tubes with optical lenses which bend the light.

Reflectors are the larger tubes with mirrors used to reflect the light.

SCT style scopes have a combination of both lenses and mirrors.

Lots to consider when making a purchase.

Stu.

[Scorpius51]

Hi Scott, welcome to the forum :welcome:.

The best advice that any of us can offer initially is for you to contact a local group and go along to one of their viewing nights, or meetings.

Buying a telescope is not difficult - the choice is huge. Buying the right one for you, or someone you know, that's the difficulty. You have a budget that allows a great deal of choice. You need to decide what sort of use it will be put to. Just visual observing; astrophotography; planetary; deep-sky objects (galaxies, nebulae, globular or open clusters, etc), or solar.

Talk to people who have been through all of this before and get to look through the different models and types of 'scopes. Refractor or reflector? Focal length and aperture? Eyepieces, finder scopes? Equatorial, alt/az, or Dobsonian mount? Manual or computer-controlled?

A typical starting point for many is either a 60-100 mm refractor on an alt/az mount, or a 6"-8" Dobsonian reflector. That will leave you a lot of change from $2500! That being said, just ask lots of questions - here, the astro groups, the retailers. This is a very good place to start, but there's is no substitute for looking through the real thing first.

Good luck - particularly if your girlfriend gets aperture fever, or some other astro-bug!

Cheers
John

[blink138]

how about going out with me instead scott? ha ha!
anyhow most people on this forum strongly suggest starting out with a dobsonian telescope....... and for good reason as they are relatively inexpensive (sorry about that) big aperture for small dollars
perhaps an 8, 10, or 12 inch model..... check out astro shops such as bintel
good luck!
pat (male)

[jjjnettie]

From a girls perspective.... :) She would love you long time, if you bought her a 10" Goto Dobsonian telescope. It's within budget, so you will have money left over for a 2x Barlow lens and a laser collimator. :)

[Shark Bait]

So true but so wrong.:lol:

[chaffingbuttock]

so to summarise, one person asking if your girlfriend prefers longer or larger scopes, one guy offering to be your girlfriend and a couple suggestions to get 10 or 12 inch dobs.. there is a lot of innuendo in this thread!

scott, I think John gives sound advice to narrow down your choice.. what would she use the scope for? I am also a noob, so I won't give any advice, but just to say that from my research that really does define what you need to buy i.e. for visual, don't need as solid / expensive a mount as for photography. For your budget, also consider that there are a whole lot of knick nacks to buy, such as eyepieces, battery packs to power the mount, dew heaters, etc etc etc.. and these costs do add up too.

good luck.

[blink138]

heh matthew there is no innuendo intended by your avatar name then ha ha!
charming!
pat

[chaffingbuttock]

innocent until proven guilty!! ;)

[mental4astro]

Mate, :welcome: to IIS!

There is some good advice here. But, you want to surprise her? DON'T BUY IT FOR HER!

Let her make that decision.

As mentioned, the best scope is the one that best suits & gets used. It really is a personal decision, just as much as the fellow she's dating is.

That you are going to buy it for her is surprise enough!!! Especially when you don't say anything & take her to Bintel here in Sydney one Saturday morning, and just say to her "Baby, go wild! (but to a $2500 limit!!!)"

Remember that she is the one that's gonna need to lug it in and out, so if it is too big she will struggle with it.

The surprise won't be lost by taking her to the store. But I'm sure it will be better in the long run to let her chose.

Bintel has a banner in the right margin of this site. Their advice is second to none, and they will look after you two very nicely.

Ps, you can afterwards take her to a nice lunch at the Fish Markets that's across the park from Bintel before heading home.

[Wavytone]

As per Mental's suggestion... Take her to Bintel and ask the guys there.

I'd also strongly suggest before you do that, if possible find someone with a couple of decent scopes and head out to a dark sky so she can get a taste of what to expect from something similar, there are several members here in Sydney (self included).

The key decisions will come down to:

a) is this for visual use only, if so is her interest more in the solar system (planets and moon), or more interested in deep space (nebulae, galaxies)...

b) is she inclined towards photography, with a DSLR ?

c) is she reasonably comfortable with the idea of navigating around the sky from a map (star charts) and learning to recognize some of the constellations - if not you'll be looking for one that is equipped with digital setting curcles or computerised GOTO capabilities, ie you dial things up from a handset and if you are lucky it points at it, however this assumes she can set it up right in the first place.

d) the physical aspects of dragging it out and setting up. A decent-sized big dobsonian reflector is well within your budget but might rapidly finish up stored in the back of a garage if she can't manage it easily.

Telescopes are a bit like cameras - there's little point owning a behemoth if it's too inconvenient to use. A scope that will be loved and much used is one that is convenient, gives a nice view, and goes everywhere, even if it's a tad smaller than you might dream of.

This is why (for example) many observers here own a 100mm refractor - it, is always useful, even if they also own a bigger scope.

One or two books will be essential, Nortons's Star Atlas in particular, and perhaps Sky Atlas 2000 for some deeper maps.

Lastly, eyepieces. For a beginner 3 budget ones are enough - low, medium and high power. Later she can keep an eye out for better ones secondhand on the forum here, or on www.astromart.com, though it would be best to wait until she knows which ones are best suited to the scope she has.

Once the primary needs are sorted the chaps at Bintel will sort out a solution, I'll refrain from doing that here.

[Allan_L]

Agreed.
As Scott seems to live pretty close to me, relatively,
I have already offered (byPM) to show him a few different scopes i own and to take him (and friend) to a Pony Club observing night to experience a variety of scope types and sizes in action.

But it is a great gift idea, and the budget should allow an excellent result, but all the above questions and issues should be considered before any firm advice can be given.

[barx1963]

I agree with Mental
$2500 is a lot of money and If my partner offered to spend that much on me I would want a say in what was bought.
My first scope was a present from the SWMBO and because of my own ignorance I asked for a 130mm Newt on an Q2 mount. Thought it would be the Bees Neez. $500 later and a few frustrating nights I realised I had asked her to get the wrong thing (shoulda got an 8" dob!). Anyways I felt guilty and still am a little.
My point is that it is very easy to get something that appears like a good idea but may not be the best way to apend the hard earned, and if it is a present, guilt may come in later. So talk to her about the purchase and get some reserach and definitely go with her to a shop (Bintel are great!) to see what you are buying.
That all being said a good quality 8 to 12" dob is hard to beat. For $2500 i would go a 10 or 12" (as long as she is comfortable with weight and size! hence the visit to the shop to view one!) without go to and then get a couple of premium eyepieces (naglers perhaps?) some charts some charts and books and dew protection.
While Go To has it's place, I am not fully convinced it is the best balue for money in a dob.

Malcolm

[GraemeT]

Another vote for Mental, Wavy & Barx's advice.

[Poita]

Next time you are in ilford, drive the extra half hour and head out to the mudgee observatory, you can get a look through a range of scopes there and get some good advice.

[Blue Skies]

What he said!! Especially because of this...

When I got my first scope it was important that I was able to handle it - and I have to say it still is an important factor for me. If I can't handle it myself then it's the wrong scope for me. A scope you can't be bothered getting out under the stars because it's too big or takes too long to set up is a bit of a waste.

Also it sometimes takes a while to find what is going to suit you best, depending on your wants and capabilities. Ideally I'd suggest you/she join the club first, use some of the scopes there and then go shopping. What about her birthday next year? Or there is Valentines Day... A membership the local club in mind would be a good prezzy as well, and I'd go for a some nice star charts and a nice red torch and some other little accessories that are all just as important for making it a pleasant experience.

[Jethro777]

I would encourage you to take your time. When I first got interested, there seemed to be all sorts of wild specials I HAD to have. After a while, I realised that not all were suitable for what I wanted to do (Astrophotography - damn expensive by the way...) so I can only repeat...

Take your time. and... Buy a quality mount, especially if your thinking of adding a camera to it one day.

None of this will run away, not even the "offers" you see, engage in the forums, read, read, read. I don't think a scope makes a good gift "surprise". Don't buy it for her, lovely thought that it is, of course.. :)

[jjjnettie]

In regards to being able to lug it around.
I'm female (0r was last time I looked) 5'8" and unfortunately, not as strong as I used to be. But I manage my 10" goto dob quite easily. I push it around on a hand trolley. It's kept in a shed, so there are no stairs to negotiate.
It packs easy enough into the back seat of a mid size car.
Just sayin'.

[M110]

I wouldn't buy a dob for a girl. Especially not a big one, as they weigh upwards of 30kgs. Not very portable for her. They are big and heavy and everything has to be done manually. I would suggest a Celestron 6 SE. They are $1500 from Andrew's Communications. They weigh about 12kg, they have a go-to facility. Here's the link to the Celestron website.
http://www.celestron.com/astronomy/celestron-nexstar-6se.html

[jjjnettie]

My boy Jack, when he was 10, used to use my 10" Dob all the time. They break down easily into 2 manageable pieces. And there is the trolley option too. I used him as my goto as well. He would put the object I wanted to look at in the FOV for me. Manuel scope are definitely the go if you really want to learn the sky.


Just about every woman on this forum owns a dob. Our Suzy owns a 10" dob, Jen has a 12" dob, I have a 10" dob, Anna owns an 18" SDM and Petra has a 20" SDM, Fay has a 18" Dob, Liz owns a 12" (I think) Sorry ladies if Ive missed you out.

I apologise for being so cranky on this post. The comment touched a nerve is all.
Women love light buckets and good optics too.

[FJA]

I agree with Jeanette. Women are just as capable as men and can handle our scopes. So, we're not as strong physically as men but we adapt things to our situation. To say 'I wouldn't buy a dob for a girl' is more than a tad insulting.

My own scope is 18" and extremely heavy which is no problem as it has wheels. Even a man can't lift my scope, so wheels are the way to go. My previous dob was 12", it was heavy but I fitted wheels to the base.

As others have already suggested, the OP should let his girlfriend choose the scope and then she can see what she wants.

[shelltree]

I also agree with Jeanette. I have a 10" dob and I wouldn't have it any other way! I have a bad shoulder and neck but I will still carry it out into the backyard and will probably start using a trolley once I sort it all out.

But that doesn't mean I'm incapable of using it. Not to mention the reason why I bought it is because it's manual and I have to find everything myself. That's most of the adventure! I would feel like I was cheating myself if I started out not doing everything manually. I want to learn the sky, I want the immense satisfaction that comes with finding those faint fuzzies! Not to mention finally getting a grasp on star hopping, it is a wonderful feeling and all part of the amazing astronomy experience.

As a beginner and beyond, the dob is fantastic. It requires little to no set up, has no fancy dials, doesn't need to be aligned, it's just ready to go.

I'm not trying to have a go at anyone but seriously? Most scopes, no matter how big can be fit with wheels and other aids.

Personally, I would let her decide. It is all up to personal preference. I think going to an astro night or a few before she decides would be really helpful. I knew I wanted a 10" dob because I'd used my friend's before, it was easy to set up and fit in my car ;)

Anyway, my 2 cents :)

[spacezebra]

I co-built, own and use a 20" SDM. I'm 5 9 and weigh 68kg. I have no problems getting my scope around. In fact it's easier to collimate than the 12" light bridge that I have.

SDMs rule

Cheers Petra d.

[mental4astro]

Oh, Andrew, you've put your foot in it all the way to the heel this time... :rolleyes:

Poor choice of words, me thinks, foremost. I certainly think that things can get out of hand sometimes, like this little ditty:

127051

THAT I find crass.

I think Andrew may have been trying to say that it is necessary to consider the physical capability of Scott's girlfriend. I for one found a C9.5 too much for my physical capability to man handle regularly. I had to sell it after the bugger drew blood from me one night! A big dob is an intimidating prospect if you are not used to handling such large and bulky items, especially by yourself, and I don't care if it's a bloke or shiela that's got to do the handling. We also don't know if the OP has to negotiate stairs, narrow door ways, carpeted stairs - and this is in an apartment block if they live in one. How many ads have there been here on IIS by blokes who are selling thier 10 dob because it is just too big?

Let's cool things a little, please.

[Shark Bait]

I remember reading a post by someone who mentioned the 'sigh' factor when tackling big scopes. As they say, where there is a will, there is a way. Big Dobs will give you the best bang for your buck.

Many Dob owners make their scopes easier to move around with the addition of castors, locking castors and trollies. These basic mods are limited to your imagination and make the scopes easier to use so they see more time under the stars.

I got tired of moving my 12" Flex Tube dob around and built a removable rolling base for it. All big dobs should be sold with wheels. ;)

[spacezebra]

I agree Alexander, more info about circumstances etc, would help to provide an answer as to the right type of scope. :)

Cheers Petra d.

[jjjnettie]

I'm sorry that it was Andrew who had to cop the flack from this. I'm sure he meant his comment kindly.

But no, I'm afraid I can't cool down about this topic.
Gender has nothing to do with this hobby. We are all Astronomers on the field.

[Suzy]

I'm concerned about the impact the offending post (sorry Andrew) might have on potential female buyers on dobsonian telescopes.

Girls looking to buy a 10" dob take heed please- if I can manage a 10" dob so can you. I'm 5 4" and weight 44kg- it's more than half my weight (The tube is close to 16kg and the base is around 10kg). When I upgraded from a 6", I was going for an 8" but everyone on the forum had more confidence in me than I did in convincing me (and me succumbing) to the 10". I took it that they knew best. They were right & I've never looked back. These guys know what they are talking about! Hubby fitted wheels to the base, so it's easy to get it out. I can't carry it to put it into the boot to go to a dark site, but no big deal because hubby does that for me. All the girls I know that have got the 10" are capable of carrying a 10" by themselves. If you're not easily able to put wheels on it, a $20 trolley from Bunnings will do the job (your local astro shop I'm sure will even show you how to load it on with a trolley of theirs). If she needs to climb down steps to observe & lives on her own (say in a unit) and is as weak as myself, then I guess there could be a bit of a problem, but I'm thinking a garage would accommodate the scope anyway.

Point 1: Manual star hopping.
Seriously- I could never read a map- get lost in a circle I would. But there I was star hopping across the universe finding a ton of objects manually. As far as I'm concerned (& most will agree), the best learning is done by learning manually. I did two and half years of it before getting guidance on the dob.

Point 2: Being a girl.
No surprise to most, I'm very much a girrly girl- hate the cold, hate discomfort, weakling, couldn't read road maps, Ron even reserves his little concrete slab just for me at his star parties :lol:, if a guy wants to carry something for me- carry away I say :lol:, the list goes on- I'm a preverbial feminists nightmare:eyepop::lol:, yet many here on this forum have given me constant support and encouragement because they believe in me. It really is amazing what one can do when one is passionate about something and I refuse Russ' help when he offers it when I'm observing at home. So basically I say this to all girls out there who might be afraid of buying a dobsonian scope or getting into astronomy- If I can do it- anyone can!!!

Here's proof- big dob and feather weight astro girl that handles it- piece of cake ;) And that's Brian Cox in the pic with me. Don't ask me how he got there, he just is.:P
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=91089

[astroron]

Just a few words in support of the girls of iceinspace:)
From Jeanette who I first met here at Cambroon quite a few years
ago arriving with her 8"scope and has progressed in leaps and bounds
and is one of the most respected imagers and observers on here, now operating a 10" scope which she has no problem moving around with wheels.
Fay, and Petra and other female observers seem to manage very well with large scopes:)
I am always impressed with the observing progress of Suzy, though being of slight build is able to do so much observing with a large scope and manage it quite competently:)
So I add my support to most of the others on here, in saying go for the largest scope you can use the best and enjoy:)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[chaffingbuttock]

Just to clarify, I have never been female in my life and so my viewpoint may be a little biased, but I don't think gender or race should affect anything in life, astronomy included. I do, however, believe that this thread has taken a horrible turn from being a helpful forum for someone who was hoping for some useful advice into a big argument that really is not constructive. The best advice still holds true that the OP should take his gf to somewhere like bintel to talk to a professional and they will go through things like portability, type of use, budget etc etc.

ps nice to see that there are a lot of women in this hobby.

[ausastronomer]

You can take gender right out of the equation and I still get the same result.

I wouldn't have a SCT of any aperture or make if someone gave me one.

I have looked through well in excess of 30 different Schmidt cassegrain telescopes over the years and I am yet to look through one that can even remotely get close to the visual image quality of a 1/2 decent newtonian of equal aperture. Compared to a top grade newtonian the difference in image quality to my eye is monumental. There are 3 main reasons for this. They suffer from thermal equilibrium issues in a big way because of the closed tube design and the additional glass in the Schmidt corrector. Most are poorly collimated because a lot of the owners have nfi how to collimate them. These are mass produced optics with an F2 to F2.5 (read very fast) primary mirror and the optical quality of a very large number of them is very ordinary. I am told that when a SCT is all happening the images are excellent. I am yet to see this. In addition a SCT will always provide slightly dimmer and less contrasty images for a given aperture due to the larger central obstruction and the additional air to glass surfaces (corrector plate and a star diagonal at a minimum, plus in some cases a focal reducer)

Unless you are an imager I can't think of one solitary good reason to own a SCT.

Cheers,
John B

[mental4astro]

Edit: Nah, take it back. Thread's pear shaped enough.

Scott, all the best with the scope selection.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Alex,

I already read the post you have edited and just want to comment as follows. My post is relevant on the following basis:-

1) the original poster has asked which telescopes he should consider buying his better half.

2) Someone responded saying he should dismiss a dob based on weight considerations; and instead buy her a 6" SCT.

3) I have responded putting forward the reasons why I consider a SCT a poor choice as a visual telescope.

All pretty relevant to the original posters question for mine.

Cheers,
John B

[barx1963]

I feel a little guilty coming back to this thread because I made a comment about visiting a shop to get an idea of size and recommended a 10" or 12" dob "as long as she is comfortable with the weight and size".
I certainly did not mean to imply that a female could not handle a decent sized dob, I would give the same advice to a male beginner. I was certainly surprised how cumbersome my solid tube 12" was to move around when I first got it and had to make some mods to make it easier to transport, so I know what I am talking about!
As an active IIS member, I reckon the girls are a large part of what make this forum so unique and enjoyable.
I also happen to agree with John, I have looked through a few large SCTs and only on one occasion have I thought the few compared to my GSO 12" Dob, and that was in pristine conditions at 9000ft on Mauna Kea with an 11", and even then I would say they were about the same as I would get in my backyard.

Malcolm