Please help lol

[matt210]

Hi everyone,

I have just joined and am really excited to hopefully learn all new kinds of stuff.

My dilemma is this, a very basic one I know.

What scope should I get to start with?

Now obviously, as a beginner, I would prefer not spend a bucket load of money. I'm trying to look at around the $150, but would possibly go as high as $200.

I would like to do more than just observe the moon, more hoping to try my luck at planets and bright nebulae, if possible of course.
I would have to travel with the scope though, not far, roughly 3-4km's by car, so travelling with the scope also needs to be taken into account.

Hope this isn't to much at once, but I am at the stage where I want to go out a buy one tomorrow, so I can just start :)

[ourkind]

Hi Matt,

let me begin by being one of the first to welcome you to this great site! WELCOME :welcome:

There will be many here with more experience than I who will surely give you some good advice.

Its always exciting when you decide to buy your first scope but it certainly won't be your last.

Most will advise you (and I agree) to buy a Dobsonian which are really easy to use, simply point anywhere at the sky and look through the viewer. Personally the smalllest you would want to go is 6" in diameter, if you can go larger do it, the larger the diameter the more you see :astron: but its more expensive of course

Your budget is a little limiting so you may need to look at ebay, gumtree or even the classifieds section on this site for 2nd hand. I think a good starting point is around $400 (please someone confirm or correct me if i'm wrong).

My first scope was a 6" Newtonian on a equitorial mount, no electrics no goto, all manual. It was tricky to use and personally I wished I had gone the Dobsonian first.

This weekend and the next the moon will be mostly in hidding, so local astronomy clubs will be or should be out there observing at their local dark site, find out where your nearest ASTRO CLUB is, call them and go out and look through their scopes. Most if not all Amatuer Astronomers want to share their passion and are happy to let you look through their scope and we especially love it when your eyes pop and your jaw hits the ground eg.

:eyepop: :jawdrop:

You've probably already done some research, if you haven't read an article on this site called 'General Principal for choosing your first scope' I suggest you do -> http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-260-0-0-1-0.html

Lastly try to spend your money wisely, most of us have fallen into the (self inflicted) trap of rushing in and buying the wrong equipment and quickly realising we want or need something better

All the best :thumbsup:

Carlos.

[Varangian]

Hi there, I would start with the 5" collapsible skywatcher heritage dobsonian. It will all fit on the front seat of a small car. You will see the moon, Venus, mars, Jupiter and Saturn when they are well positioned. You will also pick up a heap of Messier objects (esp. Clusters). What's better it's in your price range at $200. Shop around for the best deal. This is a compact effective scope that will support you on your learning adventure. Clear skies.

[jjjnettie]

Hi Matt,
Handy hint... if you join your nearest Astro Society, they usually have "loaner scopes" that members can borrow, and take home to use, for a very small fee.
You can work your way through a variety of scopes that way, before deciding which sort will suit you best.
It also gives you time to save up more money so you can buy a bigger scope than you can afford at the moment. :)

[AstralTraveller]

Matt, a quick look at new prices will show that you are in the 2nd-hand market. That's fine. Do your research and watch the IceTrade (and other) classifieds. Dobsonians deliver the most aperture per $ ands so best access to DSOs and so I expect that will be your choice.

Have fun in astronomy.

[gbeal]

Welcome. I'd echo JJJ's comment, seek out he nearest Astro club or society, and loan something from them.
I'd also cosy up to as many closeby astro sorts and see what they are using and for what. You'll learn heaps, and make plenty of friends.
Gary

[fauxpas]

Matt... Get one of the following...

I got this one... A 4" Dobsonian for $130 delivered ($99 + Del) from here http://www.australiatelescopes.com.au/kson-table-top-102mm-dobsonian-telescope-portable-astronomy-scope.html

You'll need to jump on ebay and buy a plossl eyepiece and 2x barlow but they are only another $30-50...

If you can stretch it, go this 5" collapsible dobsonian http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-heritage-5-dobsonian-telescope.html (http://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-heritage-5-dobsonian-telescope.html)

It was even cheaper before... Was $199 delivered...

Here's a youtube video on the 5"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEs_MMcJ7JA

[brian nordstrom]

:eyepop: Woaw , Tony , those 'Kson' brand scopes look the cats whiskers , and at that price ( even with the accessory pack ) they are well priced .
What I especially like is the choice of eyepieces , a 25mm and 2x barlow , nice .
Then a 32mm and nebular filter as accessories , nice again :thumbsup:
These guys sell a scope thats usable , not on its magnification 525x !!!! booo , a breath of fresh air at this price range ;) , spot on ! looks like astronomers selling to astronomers ?? .
Go for one of these Matt , a little smaller than the 125mm but I think its extras are way better .
Brian.

[matt210]

[QUOTE=fauxpas;901847]Matt... Get one of the following...

I got this one... A 4" Dobsonian for $130 delivered ($99 + Del) from here http://www.australiatelescopes.com.au/kson-table-top-102mm-dobsonian-telescope-portable-astronomy-scope.html

You'll need to jump on ebay and buy a plossl eyepiece and 2x barlow but they are only another $30-50...


Tony, I did look at this at it seems to be what I am after as a beginner. My only question, and this may be a silly one. But as I stated, I will have to travel to do my star gazing and I am just wandering if this type of scope can be mounted? I will probably have to go and use my local footy field, which is out of town and I wont be able to use a table.

And thankyou everyone for the help, I love this site already :D

[GC - South Aus]

G'day Matt

I agree with many of the posters to this thread so far with a Dobsonian as they are easy to use.

IIS, Gum Tree or Ebay (IceTrade (IIS) & Gum Tree especially) usually have some great pick-ups. I personally wouldn't go any lower than a 6" Dob (more if you have the cash) as it won't be long before you finding yourself wanting a much bigger scope.

Alternatively, maybe you could start off with a nice set of binoculars (10 x 50's) and star chart/beginner book. They will fit your budget, easy to use and very portable. I still use a set of Celestron 10 x 50 today :thumbsup:. I also recommend a deck chair for comfortable viewing! It will be important to learn/orientate yourself around the sky first. The views may disappoint (i.e. not what your aiming at first up), but bino's are a great learning tool and something you should keep well after you have bought your first scope! You never know, you or someone you know might already have a set! Bino's are far more common in peoples homes than telescopes, so there is a good chance that one of your relatives may have some (around 10x50 don't go much less than that).

If you are interested in learning about bino's check this link (and the others contained within) for further info: http://cs.astronomy.com/asy/equipment/f/10/p/38454/427172.aspx

I would definitely join your local Astronomical Society (if you have one) as they usually have loan telescopes and you will get to look at scopes and speak to people before spending a lot of money (maybe when you don't really need to yet, best save up!).

Good luck and welcome :welcome:
Regards

Gav

[GC - South Aus]

Hi Again

Check the options out on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=binoculars+astronomy&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Remember anything larger than 10x50 and you may also require a camera tripod (generally cheap though) as they start to become much heavier. Also try and go for quality and not just the largest at the cheapest price (there are some crap optics out there!).

Make sure you do your research before any purchase (telescope or binos).

Cheers & Good Luck

Gav

[GC - South Aus]

Hi Matt

Sorry to download you with further reading, but there is also a thread for beginners and binoculars in IIS as well (see link):

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=17825

Cheers

Gav

[louie_the_fly]

Hi Matt. There is a 4.5" Meade Cat on Gumtree (in Bridgewater) for $200. Has some eyepieces and a diagonal. It's not mine, & I don't know the seller or it's actual condition. It looks to be an older scope but maybe worth a look. It's on a manual EQ mount.

Here's the link. http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bridgewater/other-cameras/mead-4-5-telescope-eye-pieces-catadioptric-massive-price-drop-/1000910626

There are a few others on there including a couple of 130mm Newtonions (none of them mine either BTW).

Cheers & happy scope hunting. :thumbsup:

Stew

[louie_the_fly]

Sorry Matt, for some reason I thought you were in Adelaide. My bad!

Stew :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: I just checked Gumtree and there is a " Saxon " brand 200mm ( 8 inch ) dobsonion for $400 neg , thats a good buy , and it has eyepieces as well .
Brian.

[sil]

Matt, I use a 4" tabletop dob available from Bintel (http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/Orion-Sky-Scanner-100mm/1007/productview.aspx)which can be mounted to a camera tripod. Small enough to pop into a backpack, nice and easy to use from inside through a window, and easy to fit to any camera tripod. It gives very nice bright views, and while its 10 & 20mm eyepieces are good (actually better than the ones supplied with my celestron 114eq) I also have some Baader Hyperions and TMB Planetary eyepieces that I use.

With this scope I've observed the Lagoon Nebula, Triffid Nebula, lots of nice clusters, most planets (even found Neptune with it) under urban light pollution. It's just such an easy instant scope to pop outside with and observe. Uses a proper glass mirror and with its aluminium tube it doesn't seem to ever need any cooldown time. Nebulae respond well to a UHC filter in this scope and moon/jupiter/saturn they benefit from a ND filter to help see surface detail.

Only downside with small scopes like these is you can't use a webcam type camera in place of an eyepiece as it won't achieve focus. I haven't tried eyepiece projection though which should be ok. I've got an idea on what my astrophotography scope will end up being but because of the ease of use and quality I don't see myself ever stop using the tabletop dob as a visual scope. Consider what you will end up doing if/when you get a replacement scope...especially if you intend to do astrophotography.

I've also got the smaller 76mm Celestron First scope and the 100mm Orion is magnitudes better in every aspect. Assembling a better/larger scope, allowing an hour or two for cool down etc all eat into viewing time and general pleasure so choosing a first scope that's instantly usable for when you don't have much time or to use while your main scope is cooling down can help keep you interested.

[matt210]

Thank's for the replies so far guys.

I did happen to find an old pair of 7x50 binos at home, but unfortunately I tried my actual first night of star gazing using a piece of equipment, rather than just my eyes and found that without a mount, even with the relative small size of these binos, I couldn't hold it still. The shaking ruined the experience for me, but certainly didn't turn me off.

Sil, the 4" dob sounds really good as I am just looking now for a surface scratcher for now, just to get my bearings on the night sky.


I do have a couple other questions though;
with alot of people advising binos for a begginner, would a spotting scope be just as good? For some reason I like the idea of having a spotting scope that I can hold onto well after I spent thousands on big scopes.

Also, can anyone reccommend somewhere on the web to learn how and where to actually find the objects in the sky ie;Planets, Nebula ect.. As I have a rather large knowledge on the actual solar system already, my problem is the pin pointing of objects and where to look.

Have to say again how awesome this site really is. I'm a member of another Astro community site ( shall remain unnamed ) and the help there is comes in a very short manner and takes along time for a reply to come about. So THANK YOU!

[matt210]

Also, could some please be able to just check this out for me and let me know whether this would be optimal for me as a beginner....

http://www.opticscentral.com.au/celestron-firstscope-telescope-and-accessory-kit-bundle-special.html#.UHavqxXMg8k

[Nico13]

Hi Matt and welcome,

One of the best ways to help you learn the night sky is to use a planetarium and there are some good ones out there for free just a simple download and install and it will show you in real time what is in the sky and where it is in the sky at the time you are looking.

A good one to start with is Stellarium, follow this link and download the correct one for your computer and be amazed. "Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/)"

Also if you have a smart phone eg iPhone or similar there is a APP called "Starwalk" and another by the same people called "Solarwalk" cost a couple of bucks I think but they are also real time and very handy for identifying things quickly or showing you where to look for a particular object.
Hope this helps

Cheers.

PS In about a months time there is a Star party at Snake Valley just south of Ballarat, goes over four days and nights, as you are not far away it would be worth the drive to see and talk to people about their scopes in daylight and see what it's all about, a great oportunity as there will be around forty of us there. If you're interested just ask for details about it.

[Jarrod]

That telescope is really just a toy, you get what you pay for as far as telescopes go. This one will just frustrate you and give a poor view, and if you have nothing to compare it to you won't know any better so it'll just put you off alltogether.

If you're not comfortable spending more than a few hundred dollars, go second hand. Don't just look for the cheapest telescope you can find, it'll just be a let down. better to spend $300 and be happy than $100 and feel it was a waste.

With telescopes size is everything. There's no way around it. I wouldnt go any less than 6" (150mm). 8" would be better but a bit over budget. One thing to remember is telescopes are not usually very heavy, just bulky. It's not until 10 to 12 inch that the size becomes a real issue if you're just driving a few km's down the road with it.

This would be ideal:

http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/SkyWatcher-6--Dobsonian/567/productview.aspx

Also this one is not a table telescope, it's over 1m tall.

As others have pointed out you really need to find some people in your area that can show you their telescopes. It won't help that you arent too sure about what you're actually buying. Astro clubs usually have weekly get togethers, find one in your area. There are a few around Melbourne.

And I second downloading Stellarium, awesome program!

J

[barx1963]

Yep those little firstscope things are just a toy, and one of the best ways to turn beginners away from the hobby.
The Skywatcher and Orion table tops are a little better, but you would be much better off if funds are really limited getting a pair of 10x50 binos and using them to scan the skies.

[GC - South Aus]

G'day Matt

Glad to hear you found some binoculars, as stated in my previous entries this would be a great start and you are using something you already have.

I personally would keep using those bino's in combination with star charts, a good beginners book (perhaps borrowed from your library) and a computer planetarium project (as suggested by others - stellarium is a good start).

If you have an Ipad or Iphone (or one of the other Android variants) you can also use plenty of free planetarium/astronomy app's for these in the field too (remember to use the red vision tab to save your night vision).

I understand that bino's can be difficult to hold, especially over a prolonged period of time, even more so when you start using bigger ones. To overcome this problem (as suggested in my previous entry) use either a tripod (this can be hard on the neck though!) or preferably a good reclining deck chair or lounger. Perhaps even a roll out foam camping mat with a sleeping bag on top so you can lay down on the ground. You will find observing with bino's so much easier this way!

Join a local astro club/association (as mentioned before), speak with others, look through their scopes and get a feel for what is right for you. Avoid the tempetation to rush in and buy something that will dissapoint or you will out grow very quickly (the common mistake we all make when beginning - and even now!).

I would then stick that $200 you have in the bank, keep adding to it and watch it grow (tell everyone you would appreciate money as a gift for birthday and Christmas, but tell them why you are saving and what you are aiming for!). As a goal find a nice scope perhaps a Dobsnian (GSO or Skywatcher etc) around the 8" (200mm) mark, these will cost around $499 for the GSO (see Andrews Communications as a guide http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm). These type of Dob packages come with most of the stuff required to get you started (i.e. a few plossl EP's etc).

Print off its picture and the amount next to it, stick it up on your wall, noticeboard or fridge (somewhere you will see it) to remind you of this goal and what you are saving for. You will be there in no time! :thumbsup:

Best of luck, only $299 to go.

Regards

Gav