Do electronic gadgets make you less of an astronomer?

[OneOfOne]

I was viewing some thoughts on Argo Navis, GoTos etc lately and thought I may try a bit of a poll, never done one before.

Basically, if you have a GoTo/Argo Navis type computer control on your scope, does it make you less of an astronomer? Do you have to spend time learning the constellations, finding objects, star hopping to be able to call yourself an astronomer?

If you use DSIs or WebCams does it make you less of an astrophotographer compared to someone who uses film? Do you have to spend time learning to track accurately, process the emulsion, print etc in a dark room before you take the plunge?

[h0ughy]

Gadgets are a mans best friend. Oh BTW I just received my ZIGVIEW angle view finder!!!

[ving]

one must define astronomer first!
from dictionary.com

using this definition i guess one would next need the meaning of astronomy.


the short answer, technology make astronomy easier. but are you involved in the "scientific study of matter in outer space"?

[h0ughy]

does "study" take into account ones observational abilities

[Striker]

Goto can also teach...yes most of the time I ask the PC to slew to a target and shazam...I have just learnt another target....but some people like the hunt as per Andrews signature which makes him a far better observer then I.

[Vermin]

Where's the "I'm a gadget freak" option?

That would be me, in all areas of life not just this one.

[Miaplacidus]

Weeelllll....

I like gadgets, mostly. That is, when they work. But I also like to have a plan B for when the power supply goes down.

I certainly don't accept that having lots of gadgets makes you more of an astronomer.

[ving]

nor does it make you less... its what you do with it that counts :)

[higginsdj]

Poorly worded Poll since it only favours the negative response.......

Try to do the work I do without the gadgets! Does it make me less of an astronomer? Do I care? It gets the job done.

Cheers

David

[vespine]

I think it really depends what you get out of 'astronomy'.
For me, the main pleasure is just getting out of the house and away from the television / internet / friends / games / distractions and sitting outside in the nature. Slowing my pace right down, letting go of the hustle and bustle and enjoying the 'simple things' so to speak, feeling humbled by the magnificence all around us.
So for me, it's not about the gadgets. Having said that, I AM going to, one day in the not to distant future, purchase Argo Navis. I do believe however that specific piece of equipment will enhance rather then detract from my enjoyment because at the moment I find myself finding lots of things in the sky and not being able to match them back to star charts with any confidence. I think Argo Navis would give me a far greater appreciation of what I'm actually looking at.


Conversly, someone who's into it to actually do 'scientific' research, like measuring and spectrography or discovery, then gadgets would play a far greater role in their approach.

[wavelandscott]

I am basically for gadgets...but it depends on your definition of gadgets...

While a valid case can be made for or against...I think anything that adds enjoyment are basically a good thing...

A different but related question is can gadgets/technology overcome lack of experience (specifically mine)?

To this I'd say yes and thank goodness it can/does...the AN is a good example...it has added viewing time for me...in this case a gadget has nearly eliminated my lack of experience...a trade I am willing to make...

[janoskiss]

Professional astronomers do nothing but use gadgets (very expensive and very large gadgets). They never look through a scope, or point it manually using a finder. Gadgets make you a pro! :lol:

[mickoking]

G,day cobbers

personally I am not a big 'Techophile', eg I don't own a mobile phone, I pod or home theatre and the computer I'm using is an old reconditioned thing :thumbsup:

The same goes with Astronomy. I like searching the skies without the aid of a computer. When you starhop the traditional way you see lots of unexpected sights along the way. Gadgets are good for other people, but for me they just get in the way of seeing the universe.

Just my two bob's worth :D

[AstroJunk]

Do we class parabolic optical surfaces accurate to 1/8th wavelength of light covered with aluminium surfaces an atom or two thick laid down in a vacuum the equivalent of outer space as gadgets or not?

There are few gimicks in astronomy, only technological advances. If one doesn't want to use them then that's ones personal preference. Me - I get pleasure from studying the objects i'm looking for and not the gaps in between. I haven't enough time to spend looking at nothing!!!!

[jjjnettie]

If I had the bucks, I'd install an ArgoNavis tomorrow.

[Nightshift]

I started my hobby in 1988, using setting circles on an alt/az mount, the astronomical equivelant of crank starting your car, today I drive a nice shiny electric start car and love it, gadgets maketh the astronomer, I would never go back, I like to spend my time looking at stuff, not looking for stuff. Having said that, the dobbie has set me back a bit but I use the goto as a pointer now for the dob.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Ptolemy, Nicolas Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Christian Huygens, Giovanni Cassini, John Flamsteed ...... and dozens of others throughout history - would anyone doubt the ability of any of these men as astronomers?

Each of them was a "gadget" man in one way or another, though to be honest most of these great men not only had to manufacture their own gadgets but also actually invent them first, in order to see more, understand more, discover more.

Would ANY of them have refused to use better telescopes, more accurately ground lenses or mirrors, or any electronic gadgets if they had been available??

I don't think so.

Gadgets are tools, nothing more and nothing less - is a man who uses a power saw, electric planer, orbital sander, etc, any less of a carpenter? Not at all, but sometimes you simply develop different skillsets if you use different tools.

[edosaurus_rex]

It's our hobby and GoTo is just a means to an end. I personally like to hunt and star hop to objects but don't think I'm any better than the guy with GoTo for doing it.

"How much power is it? How big is it? Do you have your Messier/Herschel/Doubles/Lunar Club certificate? (These are a personal pet peeve of mine) Judging our "astronomical manhood" doesn't mean anything and is a waste of time. I hunt and look at objects because I enjoy doing it and that's all that matters.

Besides, 20 years from now the GoTo guys will be saying, "Well, when I started I only had 15,000 objects in MY database!"

[acropolite]

I'm a gadget freak as well. Go To (or push to with an Argo Navis etc) is a wonderful tool, it enables both experienced and inexperienced users to do far more astronomy, in a given time, than would otherwise be possible with out any electronic help. Tracking allows easy observation and access to astrophotography. As far as learning the night sky, I would have to agree that the learning process is slower than with a dob, but the experience is rewarding just the same and familiarity with the sky comes with time. I searched the sky for several mornings without success for comet Pojmanski, the very first morning I downloaded the data in to my LX I found it, that's the advantage of Go To.

[hogly52]

Anything that enhances our hobby, obsession or science is to be applauded. It's an individual choice on how we go about our observations, or record it. Anyway, where do you stop and start defining what a gadget is? Surely, the first gadget we all got our hands on was either a pair of binoculars, a telescope or a camera. I doubt there are few astronomers out there without one of these, or access to one of them at least? Let's just enjoy what we do, however we do it, and with whatever we do it with!

Cheers,

Graeme

[Rodstar]

To reduce the proposition to its absurd conclusion......real astronomers don't use Hubble.

Need I say more?

[mickoking]

We are certainly a diverse lot. IMHO enjoying the universe is wot it's all about :)

Some of my most amazing astronomy experiences were using eye alone, a long way from lights and a long long way from my quiver of 'scopes.

[Lester]

We all have our differences and likewise do things with our own slant or flavouring. Doesn't mean that any is better, just that we are all individuals.

[Blue Skies]

It's in the way that you use it, imo, gadgets are tools, otherwise why invent them? If you get some expensive gadget and you use it to it's fullest then yay! If you only get it to boast that you were able to get it then I'm not interested.

[ballaratdragons]

Even though I have always been a tinkerer (I even made a working pinball machine when I was a kid, with flashing like and rolling score) I never put much thought into Gizmos with astronomy. I point the scope and look at the object (if I can find it).

A dob is a Dob and should be used that way.

Aaaaahhhhh, but!

There's often a 'But' isn't there.

I now have an EQ mount for my Dob, and computer driven tracking. And I also have a Toucam shoved in it most of the time! So where does that leave me as an optically observing Dobber?

I don't care one way or the other. I used to support "it's all in the hunt!".

Well, I still have to hunt as I don't have GoTo on my EQ, so what I really have is a Dob that can track with the sky.

I still have to hunt, but the EQ helps my astrophotography.

If I can work out how to make a GoTo system for it, I'll probably fit one.

Why? Coz I am having fun making and fitting and testing and using and improving. Ain't all that part of a hobby too.

My gear is not high-tech, but I am having a blast. And that's all that matters to me.

[ving]

i wouldnt call your scope a dob any more ken, its a EQ mounted newt. dob refers to the mount :P
hey did you keep the alt mounts on the side of the OTA? I kept them on mine so i can either go Eq or Dob :) nothing like flexibility :D

[ballaratdragons]

It was tongue in cheek Vingo.

Well, actually I can call by OTA a Dob, it has John Dobsons autograph on it LOL.

I haven't been able to mount the 12" on the EQ yet as I still don't have mounting rings, but I will definately be leaving the rocker bearings on it for a quick plop into the Dob base!

[ving]

gee i am slow :rolleyes:
sorry bout that.

[fringe_dweller]

Never a truer word was spoken on this forum :thumbsup:

I am constantly blown away with the different versions of what astronomy is to different people - Viva La Difference!

[ving]

viva the 25 compartments!

:ashamed:

[fringe_dweller]

That is a mystery wrapped in an enigma Ving Baby - how cool!

Come out of the compartment everybody! :P

[Volans]

I think Ving's question is quite appropriate to this poll. The vast majority of us who populate these fora are AMATEUR astronomers. Even though I work at a planetarium and teach people about astronomy every working day, I will always consider myself as an amateur astronomer for the simple reason, I do no research astronomy.

Professional astronomers need to use gadgets to discover more things and to do their observations quickly (telescope time is paramount) whereas amateur astronomers (IMO) conduct astronomical observations for the simple pleasure of seeing what is up there and marveling at the diversity of objects that the universe is able to conjure.

So to answer the exact question of the poll, "Do electronic gadgets make you less of an astronomer?" - no. If we are talking about observational astronomy then I ask; who uses electronic gadgets to enhance their ability to observe an object (not find it but observe it)? I'd say no-one would use such a device. If we are talking about astrophotography then again the answer is no because gadgets come with the territory and the image is the desired product so the means justify the end.

Alot of people who have posted to this thread have also made mention of gadgets to help you find the objects, Argo Navis, GoTo etc.. To my mind, the ability to read a star chart is of vital importance if you are serious about being an amateur astronomer, more so if you want to be an observational amateur astronomer.

Gadgets fail. No-one can deny that.

Last Saturday (6/5/2006) I was setting up the planetarium's observatory for a public observing session. I needed to re-align the Meade LX90 so went about doing a 2 star alignment. I did it on Sirius and alpha Cen. but it decided that the alignment was not sucessful and I had run out of time to go through the process again. So I was forced to do it all manually during the session which was not a problem. It was not a problem because I knew where to find the objects by star hopping and I knew that because I used star charts when I was learning my way around when I started out in this hobby.

Many people see the LX90 slewing as if by magic to the next object when I do these observing sessions and it's usually the men who go "OOOhh...that's soooooo cool. How much?" I tell them the rough price but also warn them that if they buy one as their first telescope then do not rely too heavily on the goto function. Gadgets fail. All of a sudden you have a screwed up computer or the batteries have died and bang...your observing session is over because you have no idea as to how to read a star chart (and that's if you even own one) to continue to find those faint bits of nebulosity. The gadgets have died but does that mean your mirror suddenly can no longer reflect light? Have your own eyes also packed it in? The batteries die and your e.p's go dark as well?

Learn your way around a dozen or so objects first by using star charts and when you become proficeint THEN install something to give you goto functionality.

Peter.

[ving]

i like this definition that i googled :)
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~trw/define.html

[edosaurus_rex]

RSO (arso) huh, and all this time I thought I was an amateur astronomer!

[ving]

nothing wrong with being a RSO rex. besides that article is just someones opinion, happens to match mine btw but still an opinion :)

[vespine]

yeah looks like the days of saying one of my hobbies is amateur astronomy are over too, from now on I'm just a "star gazer". ;)

[leon]

In the July 2005 edition of Sky and Telescope, in Letters to the editor, i ventured into this subject, and then in the September issue of the same year i got my answer.

I have to admit now, and apoligise to many, that Astronomy with or without gadgets is really equal.

I figured at the time that if you did it all the (Hard Way) like we used to many years ago it was more rewarding when that final image hung on the wall.

Well i was wrong, and i say this because i too now use some gadgets to assist me in my quest to get that great image.

Although i don't have a telescope that points to where it is told, i am in the field of Digital Imaging, and heck it can be difficult at times,

So to those out there who wanted to know where i lived, my humblest apologises.

Leon :D :D :D

[Starkler]

I always thought of myself as a stargazer. I do it for the eye candy :)

[mick pinner]

why would any of us care what our position on the astronomy ladder between amateur and professional is or how it is looked upon by others.
some people get their fix from purely visual observing and some move on to astrophotography, usually when funds allow, and some delve even further into the hobby and specialise in a particular area.
unless you are making your primary income through your astronomical pursuits then l guess you will always be considered an amateur.
as for the gadget question, l have my share of wiz bang go-to equipment and find it great but that does not mean that every time l go observing l use it, l quite often cruise the sky manually and take in the larger picture, l believe l have the best of both worlds, l am the master of my gadgets not the other way around.

[mickoking]

Good point I don't care at all what anyone thinks about the way I persue Astronomy. I dont pretend to be a amateur scientist, for me I am an astronomer for the sheer beauty and wonder of the night sky.

[wraithe]

Newton would have been in his element with what is available today, and i dont think he would care what anyone thought of him, just so long as he could look up and see the stars...Probably be amazed at what we can observe today, tho.. Now where are those binoculars..:rofl: