Selling of the farm.

[astroron]

Australia is selling of the farm and with it it's water rights to China, but in America president Obama has blocked a sale of a wind farm to the Chinese.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19766965
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Waxing_Gibbous]

I'm on the fence about foreign ownership of farmland.
In the 80's everyone was squawking about the Japanese buying up land and farms. Thirty years on, and there doesn't seem to be any appreciable negative impact.
While I agree that local ownership is usually preferable, foreign ownership is not always a bad thing, particularly if it brings in upgrades to infrastructure and employment.
A good many Ozzie farmers simply don't have the cash to do this. Government support for agriculture is very limited - usually to crisis payments - and when offered a heap of money for perhaps a marginal property, what are you going to do?
The use to which the land is put will be governed by various levels of legislation and its unlikely we'll see Chinese-owned farms being turned into theme parks, "Chinese-Only" golf courses or toxic waste dumps.

FWIW, though I don't have the exact figures, Australia and Australians are one of the largest foreign investors - that is we buy far more foreign land and companies than other nations buy ours. We need to have a little perspective on foreign sales and consider the efficacy of the enterprise rather than just who owns it.

[leon]

Not a bad point Peter, I'm not really up with this sort of stuff, however your reasoning is sound, IMHO only.

Leon

[kustard]

I guess it has both pro's and con's.

Though if some investor came to me to buy our small plot of land off us up near Foster I'd have to take them up on the offer :)

Cheers,
Simon

[Moon]

I'm not sure what your point is Ron. Are you worried Australia is going to be over run by Chinese people?
If I had to choose between having a Chinese neighbour or a wind turbine next door, I'd go for the Chinese neighbour.

[TrevorW]

The profits from a Chinese or any other country owned farm will not stay in Australia

The same as most of the profit from our minerals

Gone are the days of nation fighting nation for land (territory) when all they need to do is buy it

[space oddity]

Selling off the farm is a travesty. 100 year lease is what has been done in the past overseas, but freehold is tantamount to selling one's own sovereignty. Do bear in mind that the produce shipped back to China does not get taxed, so there is no economic benefit, just a little short term injection of cash(hey, where our governments when you need them-I thought they were supposed to work for us.) Are we so pathetically poor we have to sell ourselves out to a nation not renowned for its human rights just for a little short term cash? And what is the story-we give aid to China for them to then use it to buy the sovereign land of Australia? Why don't we just cut out the middleman and just GIVE Australia to China( oh,poor underprivliged China, boo-hoo). The whole notion of any foreign entities buying up sovereign land to ship the produce offshore without paying taxes or contributing economically to the host land is patently ABSURD.
Do note a conundrum here. The UN expressly declares this sort of activity as unacceptable on one hand, but calls for one world government(with unelected leaders) on the other. Our government is of the opinion that this activity of selling out and giving aid galore(with borrowed money) will curry favour with the UN for that coverted seat on the Security Council. I suggest all IIS readers and anyone who cares about Australian sovereignty and rights to self determination to check out (UN) Agenda 21 and UNIDO(aka Lima Declaration.)
As for wind farms, they are hopelessly inefficient. They only become viable with subsidies. A large cost of wind farms is their decomissioning when they finally break down. Fat chance of China doing the right thing here and properly decomissioning and disposing of the defunct wind farms.
The world is going insane .

[TrevorW]

We are not the only ones screwed I'm of the opinion China will become the major dominant country in the World through economic domination undermining country's sovereignty through the persuasive power of the almighty $$$ and once they've got you by the short and curly's, lets just see if the military won't be far behind, it may not happen in our lifetime but IMO it's bound to happen

[Moon]

Enough of the xenophobia, seriously.
How is this in any way related to astronomy?

[astroron]

No, I am not afraid of Australia being over run by Chinese People.

As for wind power if it was in place out in Western Queensland and efficient,
it would be much more preferable than Cotton,which uses poisonous chemicals which leach into the river which flows into the Murray Darling river system, the food bowl of Australia.

If the drought had continued for another couple of years, we might not be having this discussion as Cubby Station would probably have been allowed to return to nature as it was in receivership and could not be sold.

Water in this country is a valuable asset and should not be controlled by a foreign country.

That Cotton along with Rice are the most water intensive crops are allowed to be grown in the outback of Australia,the so called driest occupied continent on Earth is just plain crazy:screwy:

It was only allowed to go ahead because the Federal and state governments did not take due diligence in protecting the environment of our river systems and outback of Australia.

All someone had to do back then was to wave Dollars under the noses of the politicians and it got approved.
Still the same today to a certain extent.

China is buying up valuable farming land all over Africa and the Pacific as well as South America, and now we are the latest in it's plans to obtain as much land to feed and cloth it's expanding population for the Future.

So My Point is , we should do everything in our power to protect our natural assets and not hand them over to foreign government owned companies.

:thumbsup:Cheers

[astroron]

Read the TOS.
This is "General Chat", where nearly anything can be discussed that doesn't have to be of Astronomical nature.

[Moon]

What a load of absolute scaremongering nonsense. Sell <> hand over.
Anyhow, you'll get a chance to vote soon, so I guess you can have your say then.

[astroron]

Money is irrelevant here,It is "CONTROL"

Voting has really nothing to do with it as the opposition is also agreeable to the SALE.

[Colin_Fraser]

Hassad Foods, a Qatar company owns property in Queensland. The farm is larger than Qatar
They also purchase other agricultural properties in Victoria and S.A.
Singapore purchased 45% of the almond orchards and water rights in Victoria
Korean investors have purchased several large farms in NSW
Brazil has been buying feedlots in SE Australia.
China purchased about 10 large vineyards in NSW

45 million hectares of farmland (twice the size of Victoria) is foreign owned.

I don't like it either. BUT the land belonged to the farmer and he can sell it to whoever he wants.
The government has no right to tell anyone who they sell their land to.

[PCH]

I agree, - wasn't if Colson, in the midst of the Watergate scandal, who said, - "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

[Colin_Fraser]

And it's not only real estate that is being sold :(

ABB - Australian Barley Board - Canada
AMI -= Australia Motor Industries - Japan
AWB - Australian Wheat Board - Canada
CSR's sugar subsidiary Sucrogen now owned by Singapore
ADI - Australian Defence Industries sold to France

[ourkind]

Agreed, what a disturbing read ...

[GeoffW1]

You mean no moral right I believe? I think in the case of Cubbie Station it did require the approval of Government, in the person of the Treasurer.

BTW, given the subject, what a long escape here from the banhammer :eyepop:

[Larryp]

I agree to a point. I think China is hell-bent on world economic domination, but I doubt they are considering any military domination. Military domination costs heaps of money and history shows it doesn't work. Really you only need economic power to impose your will-look at how the USA used to do that.
Really we need politicians with enough balls to tell foreign countries they can only lease our land-not buy it.
A friend of mine recently bought an apartment near the beach in Thailand-he told me its ok for foreigners to buy an apartment, but they cannot buy a house because that involves land ownership-so Thailand along with many countries, places restrictions on foreign ownership of land.

[Colin_Fraser]

No I meant no legal right.
Very true as is the case of all foreign takeover/purchases of any company.
At any rate, it is my understanding that the Chinese and Japanese consortium will only hold 51% interest in the property.

[astroron]

Very true as is the case of all foreign takeover/purchases of any company.
At any rate, it is my understanding that the Chinese and Japanese consortium will only hold 51% interest in the property.(Quote)

51% controlling interest, Which comes down to the gist of what I posted, Control of Natural assets which to me are of significant strategic value that they should not be controlled by a foreign government owned company.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Colin_Fraser]

I agree 100%, they should NOT be but they are.
It's extremely difficult when the federal government is itself controlled by foreign governments.

[Peter Ward]

I'd advocate a more patriotic view.

No foreign ownership.

Period.

That said, a 99 year lease (al. la Brits and Hong Kong ) with some caveats, sits well with me.

[Lester]

Good topic Ron, if we don't protect what we have now, then little by little we will lose it and then could become a province/state of who ever owns the most. I cannot see the logic of our PMs.

All the best.

[TrevorW]

A lot of educated people think along the same lines

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-25/markets/30020461_1_chinese-economy-china-economic-size

Type "China World Domination" into Google and see what comes up. I remember hearing/reading once that China had plans for limited nuclear war and were not concerned to loose half their population in the advent of such.

Once such economic domination occurs, we've seen the good old USA do the same in the past under the guise of WMD etc, who will stop them.

Not scaremongering IMO just highlighting a possible realty lets just hope in never happens :D

PS: a few futurists and sci-fi writers have penned words along similar lines

[astroron]

I have had some encouraging PM's on this debate:)
This article taken from the ABC website goes to the heart of what I am
getting at.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-01/fullerton-cubbie-conundrums/4288350
Cheers:thumbsup:
PS look forward to the second part of the article tomorrow.

[KenGee]

There are reds under the bed guys.

[space oddity]

The reds are not under the bed, they are in it and well and truly having their wicked way with us apathetic humans. Labor and the Greens are both actively undermining Australian sovereignty. Gillard is a Fabian. If you do not know who they are, you had better do your research. Bob Brown and his Murray-Darling, Murray-Darling nagging is seeing us sacrificing 40% of our agricultural land for "environmental flows" to turn the estuarine lower lakes in to fresh water lakes. This is insane, but does gel in with the UNIDO(aka Lima Declaration)signed under Whitlam in 1975 which divides the world into distinct economic zones. Pity Agenda 21 (signed under Keating in 1992) has some seriously crazy uber green ideas including the notion that food should be sourced from within 100miles.
The Liberals have been infiltrated by left leaning traitors, so it may have to be Bob Katter or some of the independent groups which are springing up with common sense ideals but no funding.
In Victoria, the Rise Up Australia group seems to have the right kind of ideas. I myself am involved with a group that is looking at setting up a new political party with common sense ideas. For those that value Australian Sovereignty and our rights to self determination, PM me and I can get you in the loop .
"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"-Edmund Burke

[blink138]

sorry space oddity...... you have made a serious grammatical error, you have used "common sense" and "bob katter" in the same sentence!
and i cant see a problem with sourcing food from within a hundred miles, actually sounds quite sensible to me!
pat

[astroron]

Part 2 of Ticky Fullerton's report on the ABC website.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-02/fullerton-high-stakes/4289756
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Zhou]

I remember all this xenophobic nonsense back in the eighties. Of course the demon back then wasnt the Chinese but the Japanese.

Please remember that Australia invests heavily overseas; if we as Aussies can invest in other counties It would sound extremely Hypocritical to make a big noise about other countries investing in Australia.

[Zhou]

Sorry mate! you lost me there.

:shrug:

[astroron]

The tenant of this thread is not about investment it is about ownership of a strategic national asset.
Food and water are going to be even more vital for the well being of this country in the future.
The so called xenophobia about the Japanese investment in the 1980's was about real estate on the Gold Coast and Sydney ect not about a valuable and scarce resource like water.
As you are based in China, please tell me where there are any countries that own land or water there,:question:
They don't:shrug:
Know foreign country can purchase land in China, and that is how it should be.

You can be assured that any product produced at Cubbie Station or any other agricultural area purchased by the Chinese in Australia will not be to the benefit of this country.

Cheers