Bright Xmas Comet 2013?

[CometGuy]

This morning the discovery of new comet was announced that might become very bright in November and December 2013.

Comet C/2012 S1 (ISON) was found by Vitali Nevski and Artyom Novichonok using the 16" f3 reflector of the International Scientific Optical Network located near Kislovodsk, Russia. At Discovery on September the comet, although only magnitude 18, was located 6.3 AU from the sun between the orbit's of Jupiter and Saturn. What makes this an exciting object is that the comet will pass just 0.012 AU from the sun on November 28, 2013, potentially making it very bright. Unfortunately, for southern hemisphere observers the viewing circumstances are poor, although there might be some opportunities to see the brightening comet low in the morning sky as it approaches perihelion and perhaps - if it gets bright enough - in the daytime near the sun.

It must be also pointed out the use of the word "might" here since there is a tremendous amount of unpredictability this far out :)

Terry

[Suzy]

Thanks Terry. How exciting (possibly!). It's about time the northern hemisphere had a comet. Pity for us though.:(

Could this be viewable up north, say Cairns? Or is it too early to tell :question:
I'd be keen to make the trip I think, I just love those comets.:D

[Rob_K]

If the tail was long enough and bright enough you might get a view of it from Cairns in late morning twilight in the east after perihelion, making a fairly low angle to the horizon. But as Terry said, there's a fair way to go yet - this is a preliminary orbit. Also, end of November into early December will be into the Wet, maybe Liz could assess the chances of actually getting clear skies. :thumbsup:

Cheers -

[Liz]

Yes, the weather could be tricky, but hopefully there will be a period of time where it will be bright, and it cant be cloudy evvvvery day!!

I wonder the chances of it fizzing out into the Sun???

I am heading to Samoa early November for my nieces wedding, and well, could mosey on up North from there, very tempted. Think I need to buy lots of lotto tickets!!

[colinmlegg]

And new moon around December 2nd :). Wow! Hope it holds together.

[JB80]

2013 huh?

Knowing my luck we'd of moved back to Oz by then.
If not then I look forward wholeheartedly to this one.

[Greg Bryant]

The orbit is quite certain as there are two sets of observations that extend the calculation arc to 9 months.

I'm looking forward to seeing how bright the comet is about this time next year. That will give us a good idea as to how it will perform on the "inner leg" of its orbit.

Greg

[astroron]

Suzy,It could be my Birthday Comet :P :lol:

[OzEclipse]

Next years total eclipse is on Nov 3rd, and in the northern hemispehere. The comet would need to be very bright to be visible during totality as it's only a hybrid with a small umbra. But you never know your luck. Fingers and toes crossed. :D

I'll be on a luxury 95 passenger yacht in the mid-Atlantic to intercept the eclipse.
Joe Cali

[Zhou]

Cool! I just saw the news on the ABC website:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/09/27/3599034.htm

I will be well chuffed if it got anywhere as bright as this, the weather will be perfect here in November (dry season).

[RobF]

Adam, is there going to be a XMAS eve charter flight north of equator this year to continue the tradition? :D:P

[CometGuy]

I like the phrase "Some reports " or "It has been said " meaning that you can make something up with no evidence and pass it as fact! i.e "some reports suggested the comet be as bright as mag -11 to -16"


Terry

[MrAstro]

Does anyone know what constellation(s) it will be in when it potentially peaks? I can only find vague references to it being favourable for northern hemisphere observers.

[mithrandir]

CdC/Stellarium/C2A/TheSky/... will predict it for you. Using the current orbital elements on Nov 3 2013 it will be in Leo, mag ~6 and 50 deg from the sun.

[Analog6]

I went and tried the Import objects following the excellent How To given to me earlier in another comet thread, and it could not find Comet C/2012 S1 (ISON). This was in a search under the MPC orbital window, and I tried 'Import All' as well. Is it not in there yet?

[mithrandir]

Odille, what program are you using? C/2012 S1 is in the current "MPEC list of observable comets" and TheSky6, C2A, CdC and Stellarium find it. Don't use the Stellarium individual object lookup. The numbers it gets at the moment appear to be strange.

Once you find it, go to Nov 24 1023, 05:10:00 and you'll see Mercury, Saturn, C/2012 S1, 2P/Enke, P/2011 B1 and 33311 Deucalion within a 7x7 degree area.

[andyc]

It's going to be well worth considering good responses to claims of the comet becoming brighter than the Full Moon. Have already seen a number of mentions of this on the Internet - somebody, somewhere has suggested it might make mag -16, which is ludicrous. But lots of people are now taking it as a proper prediction. With a more realistic forecast maybe being McNaught scale and if we're lucky a bit brighter, it would be good to get people to keep a sense of perspective! Otherwise there'll be a lot of disappointed people out there who won't trust astronomers so much. But the media do so love a dramatic 'story'...

[ZeroID]

"McNaught" scale would be awesome, I got a few great pix of McNaught when it passed through. Fingers crossed it comes close to that and we at least get a glimpse down here in southern climes.

[Rob_K]

:eyepop: :lol:

[CometGuy]

lolol Rob

[Becstar]

I really, really hope there's a chance it might be visible from Victoria! I saw McNaught (absolutely incredible) and Lovejoy (like a big spotlight) and I would love to see this one as well!

[space oddity]

Will the comet be named "comet Gillard?" cold on the inside with a dirty past . Need a quick inexpensive trip to the northern hemisphere to view. Time to go looking for conferences. Hawaii sounds nice.

[JB80]

Here is an update on some of the data from some further observations.

http://remanzacco.blogspot.it/2012/10/updated-data-for-comet-c2012-s1-ison.html
http://remanzacco.blogspot.it/2012/10/comet-c2012-s1-ison-update-2012-oct-4.html

[cometcatcher]

If this comet does break up on close approach to the Sun, then we in the southern hemisphere will get the best view before perihelion and the north may not see anything.

[CometGuy]

Hi Kevin,

Who knows with this comet! Actually, the preperihelion leg seems pretty much equally visible from either hemisphere with the comet and sun at similiar declination. Should daylight visibility eventuate, the comet would be well placed overhead at noon for us.

Terry

[cometcatcher]

A noon comet? Blimey, that would be a first for me!

I'd be satisfied with a nice pre-perihelion naked eye display in oct/nov 2013 before dawn.

[mithrandir]

With the latest elements C/2012 S1, in Nov 2013:


Should be naked eye visible (ie mag less than 5) in the morning sky from Nov 9.
Nov 24 is the last day it rises before nautical twilight. Mag prediction around -0.6
At dawn on the 28th it will be less than 6 deg from the Sun and mag around -4.
At Sunset on the 28th the tail should be pointing straight up above the sun.
After Nov 28 rises after and sets before the Sun.

Clear skies everyone.

[RobF]

Just checking Andrew - this is Nov next year (2013)?

[h0ughy]

this should be great to look forward to

[CometGuy]

Hi Rob, November 2013 is what Andrew meant. It'll be around mag 17 this November.

Terry

[mithrandir]

Yes Rob. I'll edit my post to add that.

[RobF]

Thanks guys - probably being pedantic - but didn't want to miss any action :)

[Ian Cooper]

Hi All,

I've just benn having a conversation with Colin Legg on his "Tassie Geminid" thread regarding prospects for ISON next November. I have since re-visited some of my initial comments to see if they are going to stack up, and Colin suggested that I share them here.

It's not going to be easy with ISON. For us it will be a bright object sitting above the morning twilight throughout November until perihelion. On the 14th we have our last chance to see the comet above twilight and without moonlight as well. By the time it reaches a negative magnitude the coma will be in brightening twilight. If it has developed any significant tail by then it should be pointing out on a nearly 45 degree angle to the left, the main problem is the wanning moon which will still interfere.

On the morning of perihelion, Nov 29th, (for New Zealand observers) the comet will rise about 7 minutes before the sun and directly above it. I am not really sure if it will make too much difference in the end given that the sun is so close by, but I would advise observers and photographers to find somewhere with a true south east horizon. No hills, mountains, trees or buildings. Have bino's with you for looking for the comet, but as soon as the green or blue flash from the rising sun appears then put the bino's away.

There is no point in going to the northern hemisphere at perihelion. Given the quality of austral skies compared to the N.H., observers will have a better chance of seeing ISON in daylight from home, if the weather is kind, and the comet makes the magnitude estimates.

As you can see from the detailed chart attached the comet is moving very fast so that by the time that the comet rises it will be next to the sun and even closer making it very difficult to see for Australian observers. I initially thought that if the comet had developed a lengthy tail that it would be seen rising just before the start of morning twilight, but that isn't common until after perihelion. The chart shows plots I made by hand starting at Nov 28th 17.00 U.T. (rising time here in N.Z. on the 29th) and through to 7hrs U.T. on the 29th.

Australian observers will find it easier to see when the comet is 3 or more degrees from the sun, unless the comet gets brighter than predicted of course. Don't forget to have a go at observing the comet on the 28th local time when the comet is predicted to be around -4.0 and 6 degrees from the sun.

I was lucky enough to see Comet McNaught in daylight on two consecutive days back in '07. This should outdo McNaught in that respect, and ISON may even rival The Great September Comet of 1882 as far the record for the number of days, which stands at 5, where naked-eye visibility is concerned as well. I'm picking 3 at least, but we shall see.

Looking at prospects for the northern tropics post-perihelion it doesn't look that great. It is all to do with angles. For all of December the comet will be setting with the sun. Even for higher northern latitudes it won't be until just before Christmas that the alignment will improve enough for the comet to get above the evening twilight. Christmas Day should be the pick of it with the moon out of the evening sky. Even then the tail will cut a low trajectory across the northern horizon much like McNaught at the end of January 2007 in the morning sky, but even flatter. The bonus for comet lovers could be a massively long tail of 90 degrees or longer! Don't be put off by the predicted magnitude of +4. From a dark sky site this will be a most impressive sight.

Now that could be worth travelling that far for?

Cheers

Ian

[Suzy]

Many thanks Ian for all that great information :thumbsup:- I was actually trying to find more info on Ison today.

[JB80]

Thanks for the info.
I should still be in Europe at the time so if it holds up I will definitely be looking at maximizing the chances of getting a better viewing.
No idea yet on where to go but it's a ways off so plenty of time to organise something.

On a side note is there any reason to suspect we may get a new meteor shower from Ison?

[Ian Cooper]

Hi Jarrod,

good timing on the European trip. You are going to need to find somewhere that isn't light polluted, and fine at the same time. I haven't been there but I believe that combination is a hard ask at any time of the year let alone at the start of their winter. Best of luck on that one.

Not sure about any possible meteor shower. There will be someone working on that right now if there is any possibility.

Suzy,

I ran my planetarium for Brisbane and it will be very tricky at first with the comet at about a 2 o'clock position from the sun at the time of rising for the 29th (see pic attached). The comet will be closest and therefore potentially the hardest to see, at 21.20 hrs U.T. (7.20 a.m. Brisbane time).

The comet will quickly move away from the sun and by late afternoon will be better placed down at a 5 o'clock position but still only a little over 2.5 degrees from the sun. This means that an observer has to be extra vigilant in keeping the sun out of view at all times.

The gap widens on the 30th but there is a trade off in magnitude. I would suggest if people have the chance then they start looking for the comet in daylight on the 28th. I've attached a series of scenarios for you Suzy using TheSky V6.0 planetarium programme.

It will be worth travelling to somewhere that the sky is clear for this rare opportunity.

Cheers

Ian

[Suzy]

Ian, thank you so much, you're an absolute gem!!!
You've gone to so much time & trouble- and I deeply appreciate it.
I hope you and Noel get some awesome pics to add to your magnificient comet collection- which I'm sure you will. Are you travelling to see it- I'm guessing you guys are?

Seeing those diagrams really hits it home how difficult this may be to see.
And whoa, I just had a nasty thought- I hope people don't injure their eyesight trying to separate the comet from the sun.

QUESTIONS:
Can you please tell me where is the closest point to Australia I need to travel to, to see it? I'm not sure if I can handle a long leg of a plane journey- I'm not a good traveller.

Is this a crazy question? Will we need to wear solar glasses as it's so close to the sun & will they even work on the comet?
Also

[Ian Cooper]

Hi Suzy,

the problem for people trying to find this comet in daylight is a perplexing one. On one hand we would like to promote this opportunity to modern lay people as some of their ancestors have had in the past (see the painting by Smyth at the Cape of Good Hope in March 1843 attached). Then on the other hand is the difficulty in teaching a mass audience a very tricky technique without many of them getting it wrong, with bad consequences.

We could promote people to practice hiding the sun in a manner sufficient to see the comet, but I feel that on the 29th with the comet so close, much closer than McNaught BTW, then it would prove too tempting to some who may use optical aid and get it all wrong. A conundrum for sure.

As for travelling to see this comet well in December next year there is only one option and that is to the mid and high latitudes of the northern hemisphere, unfortunately. I don't have any plans at this stage. My long term plans for astro-travel include the Total Solar Eclipse over the US in August 2017. Results by some of my New Zealand friends at the Cairns eclipse this year has sparked a renewed interest in seeing another eclipse or two sometime. I had a great view of the "Big One" over Baja California Sur, Mexico in July 1991, or I could wait until I am 81 and have one pass right over my house!

Cheers

Ian

[JB80]

Thanks Ian for the reply,

I'm going on the idea that we might be living in France by that time so as far as I can tell the easiest option would be a drive up to the Normandy region on the coast overlooking the channel islands. It seem to be one of the more LP free regions. Depending on what other plans we might have.

The other thing I have just considered is stellarium predicts(the only info I had at hand) Ison to be +6mag on November the 3rd, there is also a total solar eclipse on that day so I wonder if ir might be visible during totality or even able to be captured on camera with a wide enough lense to get the eclipse and comet in.
I imagine it'd need to be a combination of exposures to work.
Just an idea I had.

I wonder what Gabon is like in November?

Hopefully some news soon re the meteor shower, that would be a nice bonus.

[Liz]

Yes, a big thanks for all that info Ian - will be revisiting it regularly!! :thumbsup:

Wow, lucky you Jarrod - you could be in for some beautiful sights!!

[deanm]

I'd like to back-track to a question Suzy posed a few posts back:

"Will we need to wear solar glasses as it's so close to the sun & will they even work on the comet?"

This is a good point - and connected to it, will the comet be visible through a 'scope-mounted solar filter?

Dean

[Rob_K]

The answer is no unfortunately - solar filters will not transmit enough light to see the comet. Ditto with the 'scope-mounted solar filter'. You're dealing with a perhaps mag -8 comet (if it survives, whatever, who knows) and a -26.9 magnitude Sun. So you're trying to see something that is probably hundreds of thousands of times dimmer than the Sun, albeit in a much smaller 'package'.

Cheers -

[Suzy]

Ian, once again you've been a huge help, thank you so much. :thumbsup:

Jarrod I'm so jealous! :eyepop: Lucky you, how awesome! :D

[OzEclipse]

I'm picking up a number of posts including Jarrod's.

Using solar filters

As Rob pointed out solar filters are a no go on the comet. Even if Comet C/2012 S1 (ISON) reached a magnitude of -4, an ND4 solar filter drops the brightness by 10 magnitudes and and ND5 filter drops it 12.5 magnitudes. So the Sun at magnitude -26 with an ND5 filter drops down to mag -13.5 - about four times as bright as a full moon but the comet drops down to mag 8. Would you see a mag 8 comet next to a full Moon let alone something as four times as bright as a usual full moon?

However you could try using a bare piece of filter as an occulting device. This has the advantage that you can see where the sun is with respect to the edge so that the sun is unlikely to peek out and surprise you. Nonetheless extreme caution will be necessary to avoid exposure and I wouldn't try this with optical aids, just naked eye. Another possibility is to use a tall building as an occulting device. Stand just near the edge of the shadow with the comet exposed, Sun hidden.

Observations during Solar Eclipse

Forget it. Based on current predictions, the comet will be around magnitude 6 during next November's eclipse. This is unlikely to be visible except with telescopic aid and frankly there are more interesting things to look at during a solar eclipse than a mag 6 comet. I have picked up mag 6.5 stars in the corona in my photos in the past but the comet is at 50 degrees elongation so it's not likely to pop up in anyone's photos by chance. On Nov 3rd, from the eclipse zone, the comet will be much more easily observed in the completely dark pre-dawn sky. I'll be on a yacht crossing the Atlantic observing the eclipse and finishing in Barbados on the 13th.

However, if like me, you want to go to the eclipse anyway, the geometry just north of the equator is a bit more favourable than the southern hemisphere. Probably not warranting a special trip but if you'll be there anyway, why not? The slight north equatorial latitude results in a short twilight and inclination of the celestial sphere to the horizon pushes the comet higher above the horizon. I am toying with the idea of spending another 2 weeks in the Caribbean touring around (something I wanted to do anyway) and observing the comet from the West Indies, Jamaica and Cuba then flying home around 28/29th. The air at 40000 ft is pretty clear in the unlikely event I can get a good clear window I might manage a glimpse.

The weather in Gabon is pretty bad.

One possibility here at home is to look into a group chartering of an aircraft and flying high to get above all the crud in the atmosphere. I chartered a DASH 8 for the last eclipse. We flew a big group of people out to the Gulf of Carpentaria. It's pretty easy to do and wouldn't cost too much if you were just going to go up and down for a short flight without covering too much distance. A Dash 8 with its high wing is not the aircraft for this. An 8-10 seater low wing aircraft like a Cessana 402c will get you up to 10000 ft without too many layers of glass or plastic between you and the sun. Choose the aircraft carefully. Inspect the windows first. You also have to make the flight early or late so the sun & comet is low enough altitude to be observed out of the windows.

Joe

[Suzy]

Joe, that is fantastic advice! :thumbsup: And thank you so much for such a well detailed, informative post.
I can use my solar glasses held out to block the sun out :D.
Or I guess if I wanted to get really serious, I could cut out a big square of solar film and mount it on a rigid cardboard frame on a long stick so my arms don't get sore. :D
Or a large book I'm thinking. :question::D
And perhaps even a neighbours roof top depending on the height (I don't have a tall building).

[astroron]

Some good suggestions there Suzy;)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Ian Cooper]

Just commenting on some great thoughts since I last posted here.

Joe, those are some great ideas regarding using solar filters to hide the sun. I also agree that people should not take their eye off the prize when it comes to what to look at during the totality part of a TSE. For that it is all about the corona and any possible naked-eye prominences. Yes keep an eye out for the incoming lunar shadow but concentrate on getting the best possible view of the corona etc. Bino's are safe during totality. Some of the best photos from the Cairns TSE really show the wealth of detail that an observer can burn into their memory. Try and automate as much of the photography as possible so that you can concentrate on viewing the eclipse.

Jarrod, another possible viewing spot could be on the coastal islands on the Dutch north coast. This is where the keen Dutch aurorae observers go to get a true dark northern horizon. Best of luck with all of that.

A spell of clear weather is on the way for me so I hope to get up and catch PANSTARRS at some stage over the next few days to see how that one is looking against the predictions. I'll post on the appropriate thread if I have any luck.

Ian

[JB80]

Joe,
It was just a thought I had. I suppose if ISON was near it's brightest it would make for a interesting sight but as you say there is other things happening so it wouldn't be worth trying to hunt it down.

I'd love to get to see the eclipse anyway but if I'm completely honest I think the best we can hope for is to travel to see only a partial eclipse. Central Africa doesn't exactly fill me excitement, even if it is an amazing place.
A yacht would be nice, lucky you. :D

Ian,
I have had a passing look at those islands before for another reason(can't remember what though).
It will probably be a matter of geography in the end and whatever the best option is closest.

[OzEclipse]

Here's another idea for a visual aid. Put a solar filter at the center of a 50mm or 100mm opaque disk. A scrap piece of dark coloured mat board from a framing shop would be ideal. Accurately cut a hole at the centre and tape a black polymer filter - say half a pair of solar filters over the hole. Screw the whole disk to the end of a broom handle or a piece of 42x19mm pine from the hardware. At these distances from the disk mark these angles. Sight and centre the sun in the filter and you'll have a calibrated angle device for both position angle and angular separation from the sun. The image of the Sun through the filter will also give your eye an infinity object to focus on. Infinity focussing your eye is always a problem when looking for daytime objects.

In the long version you'll need to support the disk end of the contraption to stabilize it. Not a bad idea for the short one either. A 1/4 inch whitworth T nut would enable the short version to be mounted on a tripod perhaps perched on the roof of a car or attached to a tracking mount.

100mm disk
Angle degrees.........Distance from disk(mm)
8 ..........................716
7.5........................763
7...........................818
6.5........................881
6...........................954
5.5.......................1041
5......................... 1145
4.5.......................1273
4 .........................1432
3.5.......................1636
3..........................1909
2.5.......................2291
2..........................2864
1.5.......................3819

50mm diameter disk
Angle degrees........Distance from disk(mm)
8..........................358
7.5.......................381
7..........................409
6.5.......................440
6..........................477
5.5.......................520
5..........................572
4.5.......................636
4..........................716
3.5.......................818
3..........................954
2.5.....................1145
2........................1432
1.5.....................1909
1........................2864

PS : The boat is technically a yacht. Although I love sailing, I won't be hoisting spinnakers on this trip :lol:
http://www.eclipsetours.com/upcoming-tours/2013-tours/13-day-cruise-atlantic-ocean/

So apart from a talk they've asked me to give during the ocean crossing days, I'm just going with a few friends, kick back and let someone else do all the work this time.

Joe Cali

[JB80]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_eSYxvUWwVk

"Unprecidented double whammy" meteor shower in Janurary 2014?

Although they did go on to say the odds are you may not see much at all.
Time will tell.

[Suzy]

I came a across this a few days ago- here's more information on the Ison meteor shower:
http://earthsky.org/science-wire/comet-ison-meteor-shower

[glenc]

"From January through May Comet ISON brightened hardly at all, remaining stuck at magnitude 16 or 15 and falling nearly two magnitudes behind the early predictions. It became lost in twilight around the end of May and won’t be back in view until the end of August.
So my forecast is that Comet ISON will develop more slowly in the [Northern] autumn morning sky than initially thought. It won’t reach naked-eye detectability until around the 10th of November, about three weeks before rounding the Sun. It will brighten steadily but not exceed 2nd or 3rd magnitude before disappearing into the morning twilight just a week shy of its November 28th perihelion. At that time a short, not particularly bright tail should trail the comet’s intensifying coma.
On perihelion day the head of the comet may spike very briefly to around magnitude –6, brighter than Venus. It might be seen in the daytime sky as a fuzzy point by experienced observers who use great precaution when looking for the comet close to the Sun. This grandeur will persist for only for a matter of hours, as the comet will immediately begin to fade dramatically..."
by John Bortle
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/community/skyblog/observingblog/Comet-ISON-Approaches-211408441.html

[Liz]

Comet C/2012 S1 Ison has been recovered by amateur Bruce Gary in Arizona, after being unobservable for a time, it has been estimated at mag 14, and is in our early morning skies.

The next few months will be VERY interesting!! Looking forward to hearing of its development, or lack thereof. :astron:

[JB80]

http://www.brucegary.net/ISON/

Oooh, thanks for the heads up Liz.

[astronobob]

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/Comet-ISON-Recovered-and-Not-Looking-Good-219432571.html

[glenc]

This map from GUIDE 9 shows Comet ISON on 8 Nov at 4 am looking NE and its trail after that. ISON is near the galaxy NGC4697 on 15 Nov, near Spica on 18 Nov and next to the Sun on 28 Nov. New Moon is on 3 Nov, full Moon on the 18th.

The second GUIDE 9 map shows ISON's path starting on 1 Oct at 4am.

[DigitalNightOwl]

Looking forward to ISON. Heres hoping that my jaw will truly embed itself in the ground :-)

[RobF]

So, if we miss it in Oct and Nov it won't be visible afterwards from the Southern hemisphere?

[astroron]

Rob,it will appear in our northern sky low down on the horizon for a while in February being only 10° altitude on the 10th , and around 10.4 mag and getting fainter.
No bright Comet ISON for us after November.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[mithrandir]

I took the 4000 odd observations from MPEC, ran them through find_orb and predicted visibility for Sydney. Give or take a few minutes they should be valid for similar latitudes in Aus and NZ.

According to find_orb C/2012 S1 should be visible in the east around sunrise from Sep 23 until Nov 27 2013, and then around sunset in the west from Feb 3 until Feb 26 2014.

Note the times are UTC and in days and decimal days.

[astroron]

Rob,it will appear in our northern sky low down on the horizon for a while in February and March being only 10° altitude on the 10th of Feb , and around 10.4 mag and getting fainter.
No bright Comet ISON for us after November.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[RobF]

Thanks Ron and Andrew - was playing with it in Starry Night a few weeks ago and gathered that was the case, but always good to double check these fleeting occasions! :)

[glenc]

I looked for mag 10.8 Comet ISON this morning with a 16" Dob.
It is 1.9 degrees from Mars in pa 350. (down to the left)
The comet was low in the sky just before astro twilight and I did not see it.

[von Tom]

I was able to image Comet ISON in Brisbane this morning, although my focus was off so couldn't get a clear image, but it's there (just!) nonetheless. Mars is at top right.
Solar System images thread here:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=112778

Tom

[glenc]

I saw mag 10.2 comet ISON this morning at the start of astronomical twilight with a 16" Dob.
It was 1.64 degrees from Mars in pa 346. Part of its tail was just visible.

[erick]

My goodness, after all this started I unexpectedly moved to the Northern Hemisphere :D I'd better start paying attention!

[Liz]

Heehee, lucky you Eric, I am in Canada at the moment, but will be back in Aus when it is at its brighter, lucky you, enjoy. :)

[astromark]

I am confident this 'Ison' will brighten considerably.. almost as it brightens just a little more, but that it's getting to close the Sun for us to see it.. sigh.. just being positive is hard. A fine morning would be nice..

[h0ughy]

i hope you are right;)

[JB80]

It would be nice if it did, just in case though I'm trying to find the ability to get up early enough in the next few days to try and bag it visually.
At this point it's an early morning thing here and at the moment the Moon is an issue but things will only improve in the coming days.

The added bonus is there are two or three in that part of the sky or thereabouts with R1 Lovejoy, X1 Linear and Encke as well.

I have only seen 1 comet through my scope before so it'd be great to cross a few more off in one foul swoop.

[cometcatcher]

According to recent estimates, if it survives it looks like a logarithmic jump to mag -5 at perihelion! The problem is that it's so close to the Sun at the time. I don't see how mag -5 has a chance of competing with -26 of the Sun!

http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/~jds/2012s1.jpg

[glenc]

This Guide 9 map shows mag 9 Comet ISON at 4am AEDT tomorrow 27 Oct.
It will be 2.54 degrees to the right of M95 and 3.48 degrees from Mars.
The map also shows ISON's path for the next 2 weeks.

Guide 9 http://www.projectpluto.com/guide9a.htm

[glenc]

This morning at 4:30 am AEDT ISON's tail was at least 20' long.
I looked at the comet with a 16" Dob at the start of astronomical twilight when it was only 12 deg above the horizon.

[noeyedeer]

I hope to see it before it disappears! I hope binoculars will be good enough because I cbf carrying the 10" down the stairs and out the front.

if I like what I see with the binos ... maybe it'll be worth the effort .. just hope for clear skies in the coming days, but work is limiting me grr
matt

[noeyedeer]

also I think on discovery or Nat geo channel there is a special coming up about "comet of the century" it was only an ad and didn't listen too much about it, but it might be about ISON

confirmed : from the website
Follow a group of scientists on the trail of a once-in-lifetime celestial visitor: Comet ISON.
Next Showing on National Geographic Channel:
Tuesday, 26 November at 7:30pm

[von Tom]

Taking photos now. Comet ISON is barely visible from suburban Brisbane 14km east of the city) in 9x63 binoculars. Comet Lovejoy is visible too - alot higher up and a bit brighter.

[RobF]

It sounds like you're looking out over the darker skies of Moreton Bay somewhat too Tom, which would help a bit more.

[cometcatcher]

The media have hyped this comet way too much. I think it should be pretty clear by now that ISON is not the comet of the century, at least not for the southern hemisphere.

[gaa_ian]

I think you are on the Money there Kevin. I am getting asked about ISON a lot lately & have even had people wanting to join our Astronomy Club so they can see it. I have yet to get a good look at Myself !
I will get out for another morning sesion this week, but expect Lovejoy will be better at this stage. Perhaps our 12.2S Latitude will help us have a better view in Late November ?

[Rob_K]

Here's my image of C/2012 S1 (ISON), taken from White Cliffs, NSW, this morning. This is the first time I've imaged it as it hasn't been rising above the hilly horizon at home. All I can say is that it's a faint little sucker for a reportedly mag-9ish comet! DSLR & lens aren't the ideal gear to get this one, but nonetheless this was taken at 200mm, 10 x 75 sec subs at ISO 6400, F/5.6. That's the equivalent of 10 x 10-minute subs at ISO 800!!

By contrast, I've attached this morning's image of C/2013 R1 (Lovejoy) - 2nd pic - taken after ISON as twilight spread across the sky, and from only 5 subs (same camera settings). Much higher altitude though.

The recent poor performance of ISON has put it right down in the range of the first-time Oort Cloud comets that haven't survived to perihelion. My humble advice would be, if you haven't seen it yet, do so quickly! ;)

Cheers -

[Rob_K]

A shot from this morning, 5am, 4 November 2013 (18:00, 3 Nov 2013 UT). Canon 650D on Vixen Polarie, 200mm lens, 10 x 75 sec, ISO 6400, F/5.6 - image is a crop. Comet was at 10-deg altitude, sky clear, howling wind!

Cheers -

[Esseth]

So quick question, I’m Brisbane based and I’ve heard the best days for us would be some stage between 23-25 November.
Now I was initially planning to head up north of the Sunshine Coast for a couple of nights to get some photos at darker skies, however it’s seeming now that it might not be worth it?

Any thoughts on whether I should still take a day or two up there?

[glenc]

Alan it is probably not worth it.
On 23 Nov ISON is 3 degrees below the horizon at the start of astronomical twilight and the Moon is 78% illuminated.

[Esseth]

Thanks Glen, I completely forgot to even check what the moon was doing.

[Suzy]

Ian Musgrave has done a fantastic write up on ISON for ABC Science.
Everything you need to know is here, including heights and times for different states.
This would have to be the most comprehensive write up on I've seen.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/11/01/3880970.htm

[Suzy]

Thanks Matt, I'll have to keep an eye out for this.
A post-it note is going to get stuck somewhere for sure. :D

[Liz]

I havent managed to spot ISON yet as was away (far away) on holidays. Had a quick go this am after snagging Lovejoy, but ISON is low in the murky east and getting lower, and the sky getting lighter. :sadeyes:

I have my doubts that I will catch this now, even being at a higher latitude up here. Hoping for survival of its close encounter at the end of the month. :thumbsup:

[glenc]

ISON is having an outburst. It was about mag 4 this morning.

[Liz]

ooh, excellent Glen, I got it this morning , but in 11 x 70s :)

[cometcatcher]

It's about time. It's got some catching up to do.

[Suzy]

I just posted a heads up on ISON's outburst on the IIS fb page just now.
There's some good info in it so go take a look and share the joy! :D

For the first time this week it looks like it just might be clear this morning for a look-see thru my binos. We've had storms everyday this week in Brisbane.

[edwardsdj]

I should have posted this in this thread:

Saw ISON this morning at around 3:30am from near Brisbane in 15x50 image stabilized binoculars.

Was not too difficult - but not really easy either. The coma appeared quite compact (particularly when compared to comet Lovejoy which was somewhat easier and at a similar altitude) making it difficult to spot it's non-stellar appearance down in the murk near the horizon.

I thought I could glimpse a thin tail in the binoculars using averted vision but I couldn't be certain and the sky was brightening fast.

I was unable to see it at all naked eye but there was considerable light pollution on the Eastern horizon.

Hope some others have been able to pick this one up in binoculars.

Take care,
Doug

[cometcatcher]

I was unable to spot it in 7x50 binos but the sky was probably too bright at the time I tried.

[sil]

I picked it up on DSLR about 4:40 19/11. So much light pollution and horizon obstructions for me to catch it any lower. Skyglow really swamps it...its more a green blur with a hint of a tail. The weather here kept clouds low on the horizon too for a few weeks, opportunities to try for it have been slim. A week or so to go, maybe will get lucky if it brightens faster than the sky.

[Rob_K]

Here's my image from this morning, 5:08am, 20 Nov 2013 local time (UT+11). All details on pic.

It's a hard get now from my temporary location, not just because of moonlight & twilight but because the comet has to rise above a dust band down low on the horizon. I had a go with binoculars fairly late in twilight and managed to see an extremely faint starlike object, pretty much on the limits of vision.

It's almost time to say goodbye to this comet, from southern Australia at least.

Cheers -

[glenc]

Rob, I tried to see ISON this morning with 20x80 binos but thin cloud beat me. I could see Spica but the comet was too faint.

[cometcatcher]

Nice shot Rob. 4.5 degrees... that's really in the murk!

[erick]

I'm waiting patiently in the Northern Hemisphere :D

[doppler]

Dont give up on ison yet, comet Hyakutake in 1996 only flared up in the last 3 days that it was visible from Australia. Here is a 50mm uncroped (photo scan) taken the morning before it moved into the suns glare.

[edwardsdj]

Awesome image Rick!

So glad you mentioned Hyakutake! That was my favorite comet of all time but few seem to mention it.

I'm sick of trying to scrounge these out of the twilight. Hyakutake culminated at more like a 2 am; was fairly high above the northern horizon; visible in moonless conditions; and had a tail that stretched for about 70 degrees!

What time did you take that image of ISON?

Take care,
Doug

[doppler]

Sorry that is an old shot of comet Hyakutake taken on 25/03/1996 at 3.00am. I have had a couple of goes at seeing ison without success. My best comet was Comet Ikeya–Seki in 1965 (now I am showing my age)

Cheers Rick

[algwat]

For all the aussies who suffered clouds, like me.
At my blog is what STEREO HI1A imager saw
across 20131120-21.

I processed the FITS data my self, using ImageJ. :D
kind regards, Alan
http://cometal-comets.blogspot.com.au/

[Rob_K]

Very nice work Al, you're the master of that! :thumbsup:

I managed to image ISON again on the morning of 23 Nov (22 Nov UT) but this morning (25 Nov, or 24 Nov UT) I couldn't get a trace of it. It was in very, very light sky in the top of a dust band. Zubenelgenubi (Alpha Librae, mag 2.75) was clearly showing, slightly deeper into the dust band than ISON but at slightly greater solar elongation.

Well, that's it for me - I'll enjoy whatever show it puts on for the space-based solar observatories, and what happens after that, happens! ;)

Cheers -

[h0ughy]

well thats excellent sleuthing to find this thing - personally i think it is the flop of the century, lovejoy and mcnaught far outshine this. but i am green with envy we dont get to see it.:P:thumbsup:

[Rob_K]

Lovejoy? Phuh! :P ;) According to the November issue of UK's Astronomy Now, "Some consider Comet Lovejoy (C/2011 W3) a Great Comet, but its peak occurred when it was so near the Sun that it was only visible through telescopes." p20, article by Richard Jakiel. :shrug:

On p24 in an article titled "Great Comets" by Richard Talcott, in the 21st century only two comets are listed, McNaught obviously but strangely PANSTARRS: "Early 2013 brought another deep-space visitor that at least came close to the Great classification." It what??!! :confused2: Lovejoy dips out completely.

Obviously I was mistaken when I imagined I saw a gigantic naked eye comet around Christmas 2011. And also badly mistaken in completely under-rating the "Almost Great Comet" PANSTARRS. Must have had the telescope backwards. Sheesh, where do they get these writers from? :lol:

Cheers -

[doppler]

They will probably crap their pants when when they see a real (naked eye) great comet. I was fortunate to see comet Ikeya–Seki as an 8 year old but the story my grandmother told me of watching the tail of Haleys comet rising in the east until it was nearly overhead before the head was visible always makes me wonder if I will see such a sight.

[JB80]

http://www.isoncampaign.org/Present

ISON may in fact be kaput. I do stress the word 'may' though.
Still depends on who is telling the story.

[tornado33]

Hi all
I tried without sucess to observe ISON just before sunrise at Strezlecki Lookout Newcastle. Just now I tried to observe it in daylight with my 10 inch scope. First aligning on the Sun (with full aperature solar filter) Focusing accurately on the Sun, with 16mm nagler. Moved scope away from the Sun then used my Argo Navis to move to ISON's exact position. Upon removing the filter not even a hint of it. Just to check everything was accurate I moved to Mercury, and could immediately see it quite easily. Moving back to ISON, not even a hint.

So clearly it has nothing on Comet Mcnaut, whch I was able to observe in the middle of the day for several days around the perihelion time. I doubt we will be able to see ISON even at Perihelion.
Scott

[Liz]

One of the latest views ......

This is a great site, and updates frequently
http://helioviewer.org/

[Liz]

Bad luck Scott, I know there were a few of you out there trying. :thumbsup:

[andyc]

ISON looks really good in the SOHO imagery - http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/c3/512/

Usually you can get movies at the soho site, but it's pretty popular at the moment and not loading easily!

Good memories of watching Comet Lovejoy pass the Sun, losing and regrowing a tail on the way...

[Liz]

0100 image ..... and going strong :thumbsup:

[noeyedeer]

so amazing ... I'm a betting man, and I bet it survives

[JB80]

I don't think it will. :p

Seems to have rapidly dropped off in some mag estimates.
It could always brighten again once it has swung around though.

[JB80]

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comets-ml/conversations/messages/22615

Doesn't look good, neither do the latest C2 images.

http://www.alpo-astronomy.org/cometblog/?p=148
http://www.alpo-astronomy.org/cometblog/?p=145

[dvj]

ISON apparently vaporized by the sun graze. Guess that's something else we can blame Pres. Obama for. :shrug:

[gaa_ian]

Thanks for the heads up Jarrod
I have updated my comets homepage (http://everythingastronomy.com/2013-the-year-of-comets/) with the latest
Oh well, there will be more comets !

[Suzy]

It's 6.20am now and they said they still cannot see ISON.

About an hour ago, Carl Battams said they were going to give it another couple more hours before they start writing ISON's obituary.

C. Alex Young, Phil Plaitt and Karl Battams weren't holding much hope for it. There was no head visible in the images and the tail looked like it was one of debris the way it was shaped.

And C. Alex Young said that there will be no meteor shower either, as ISON will not be making that closest approach to Earth on 26th December for that to happen.

NASA Hangout: Comet ISON Live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q03I1B_yrPg

[Suzy]

This was a very special comet of interest.

It's the first time in observable history that a first time Oort Cloud comet would be grazing the sun. There's a lot of science in that regarding the formation of our solar system.
This is why there was a global observing campaign on ISON to watch it closely.

Phil Plait was saying tho that hopefully they'll still be able to get some information from the debris.

[glenc]

I like your page Ian.

[Astro_Bot]

Oh, well. Easy comet, easy go! :)

Thanks for the heads up.

[JB80]

Great page Ian. :)

Check this out though... a ghost or something more.
ftp://sohoftp.nascom.nasa.gov/incoming/lasco/rtmovie_jpg24/20131128_2024_c2.jpg

[N1]

OK if it's gone, explain THIS!

[erick]

Now I can stop worrying about the predicted cloud for much of next week. :P

[glend]

BBC is now reporting ISON disappearance

[JB80]

Maybe, maybe not.

http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/browse/2013/11/28/ahead/cor2/1024/20131128_205424_d7c2A.jpg

[N1]

This may sound silly, but what if the solar streamers actually obscured the comet rather than fry it, giving the appearance of a disappearing, and now reappearing object? The Stereo A images, where more of its path can be traced than in the SoHo images (due to a diffreent viewing angle?), suggest that this may be happening. ISON is, after all, flying THROUGH the corona, not passing in front of it.

[bkm2304]

Lessons to be learned from ISON:

1: Don't call a comet, "COMET OF THE CENTURY lest you want it to fizz.

2: Don't buy extra equipment for glorious picture taking and observing of said comet.

3:Whenever a new, promising comet turns up, always repeat the old chant, "Remember Halley in '86, Remember Halley in '86" 23 times before planning observing holidays.

4: Always keep an easily accessible picture of McNaught's GREAT COMET of '07 at hand to remember what a REAL MAN'S COMET looks like.

5: Never, NEVER, say out loud, "I think this comet will be: Spectacular/Great/Brighter than the Moon, etc lest you fall into the trap as per #1 above.

Richard the cometary realist :(:sadeyes::(:sadeyes::(

[andyc]

Clearly Terry discovers the strong comets! ISON's disintegration makes the 2011 Comet Lovejoy seem all the more remarkable...

[N1]

You're just passionate about astronomy. Nothing wrong with that.:)

[Paul Haese]

Yeah it was stupid to dub a comet "the comet of the century". Everytime someone makes that call it ends up being a total fizzer. The northen hemisphere observers will be absolutely distraught they have not seen a great comet for a while. Us southerners have had the cherries for the last few times. I was looking at flights last night just in case it turned out being a great comet. I was planning on heading to meteor crater to shoot frames there and then maybe over grand canyon. Oh well next time

[meade expert]

Looks like it survived to me?

http://helioviewer.org/?imageScale=77.454108&centerX=77.454108&centerY=0&imageLayers=%5bSDO,AIA,AIA,171,1,10 0%5d,%5bSOHO,LASCO,C2,white-light,2,100%5d,%5bSOHO,LASCO,C3,whi te-light,3,100%5d&eventLayers=&eventLabels=true:eyepop:

[Paul Haese]

Yeah just saw a recent c3 and there seemed to be a bright core emerging. Time will tell.

[dvj]

Wow, yes it does indeed. :question: I wonder if it is the dust tail making its way around? Very interesting to see what is found the next 12 hours or so. Here is a nice sequence of LASCO mages that you can make your own time lapse movie from. Looks like it survived to me and brightening before it leaves the field of view.

jg

http://sohodata.nascom.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/data_query_search_url?Session=web&Resolution=2&Display=Images&NumImg=30&Types=instrument=LASCO:detector=C2

[meade expert]

I am amazed at how quickly the media jumped on the "It didn't make it" bandwagon.:shrug:

Seems we are in for a show ! :eyepop:

[Paul Haese]

No I don't think it will be much of a show. It does not look as bright as entry, but it might put on a mag 4 view or mag 5 view of a few days and then slowly fade. Just a guess really but still something.

[astronobob]

Interesting how Ison fades on close approach and re-appears at similar brightness, the comet itself is only small, the tail is being blown by solar winds at high rates thus spreading debre vastly, hence, less dense tail, therefore harder to detect, possibly ? ?
Any-which-way, intriguing over next 12/24 hrs.
Id never make a good reporter hey, Lol !
Out on a limb : ) yours truely
Solo man ?

[doppler]

As the comet rounds the sun and starts to head back towards us the tail would be behind it and not visable to us? Looks a bit like a Hale Bopp fan tail at the moment.

[doppler]

Here is a link to an update of what might have happened to or be happening to the comet. http://www.isoncampaign.org/karl/schroedingers-comet

[tilbrook@rbe.ne]

Watch out for those comet limbs Bob!

They drop like red gum branches on a hot day. ;):D

Cheers,

Justin.

[Suzy]

152583

Wait...... There's more!!!

Latest image from LASCO C3. 0.5.30 UTC

Back from the dead?
And doing *exactly* what it wants to!
Nothing about this comet has made much sense. :screwy:

[Astro_Bot]

More thrills than a Hollywood action flick ....

In a whites-of-the-eyes, do-or-die struggle with the enemy, our hero is last seen trailing smoke and diving into the clouds. Oh no! Is this the end?! Will we ever see him/her again? Ta da! Our hero emerges on the other side, battered, but not beaten. ;)

[Shark Bait]

:rofl:The Little Comet That Could

[JB80]

On the yahoo comet group where speculation still surrounds ISON there was some bold claims that the comet had disappeared altogether and for the nucleus to survive we should of seen a small dot on the SDO approach and perihelion images. On first glance there appeared to be nothing in these images but something was seen last night as the pics came in.

I wonder if this is the dot they are looking for.
http://spaceweathergallery.com/full_image.php?image_name=Brent-20131128_182831_1024_0193_138566681 8.jpg

It certainly looks like it was missed the first time round by some anyway.

[noeyedeer]

I said earlier I'm a betting man .. the house doesn't always win afterall :) if only tom waterhouse did odds on comet survival ...

matt

[Glenn Dawes]

Hi guys,

Irrespective of whether any of Ison survived its passage close to the Sun, because of the geometry of its orbit it was never going to be visible from the Southern Hemisphere post perihelion. I've had a number of discussions with members of the public this week who had looked at me as if I had two heads when I've tried to explain this. They don't understand how much of the news feeds we get come from the Northern Hemisphere.

Also, someone earlier implied that Halley was a fizzier in 1986. Not true, probably no comet could live up to the media frenzy that surrounded it. How many of you saw it in the morning sky in March that year - naked eye, with probably 10 degree tail pointing straight up - it was magic!

Regards

Glenn

[noeyedeer]

isn't Halleys a different class of comet Glenn? that's like comparing chalk and cheese imo.

matt
,(sorry I know you didn't bring up Halleys originally, it was exceptional to see),

[JB80]

http://astroblogger.blogspot.com.es/

Nice piece of info from Ian Musgrave, seems the trajectory is still on course.
If the speed and trajectory are good then it's possible more of it survived than first thought.

[RobF]

Bah! - its obvious what happened - if you slingshot that close to the sun its timewarp back to 1960, or 1986.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDMAEzzFy9A

[Miaplacidus]

Vale Rama.

[bkm2304]

Sorry, Glenn, but unless there was another Halley in '86, the one I saw, or at least tried to see, was a disappointing smear with respect to visual appearance. Compared to Bennett that I saw fom my bedroom window in 1971, I was expecting something grander - despite the poor apparition position relative to earth. No comet can live up to expectations, you are right there! Terms like Great are best left until after the event!

Richard

[bkm2304]

While we are talking about Halley, Mark Twain had a birth and death relationship with Halley being born close to its apparition and dying during the 1910 one.
It was Twain who said something like " the rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated." Perhaps we need to tag this onto ISON???

Richard

[Lee]

Looks to be fading now.....
SOHO (ESA & NASA) image

[Paul Haese]

Latest image looks like ir is just dust rather than any head present. ISON looks dead and in the next day or so buried.

[MortonH]

Was still a great ride thanks to those SOHO images!

[Lee]

We really are a lucky generation of amateur astronomers, with easy access to real time images like SOHO.... to be able to watch a comets passage through the solar corona from your couch at home would have been science fiction not that long ago....

[colinmlegg]

Some cool animations from STEREO as well. In the first you can clearly see the start of breakup on the inbound leg. So cool to have complete coverage from 3 spacecraft! :)

http://www.isoncampaign.org/karl/a-trail-of-questions

[algwat]

Added a small avi of the last of Comet ISON in STEREO HI1A images.
I hope those able too will try for the hard processed images with there big DSLR cameras. Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Legg ? :)

http://cometal-comets.blogspot.com.au/

Kind regards, Alan.