Australian Retailers and bad service.

[westsky]

Anybody else seem to get bad service from australian Retailers?
I ordered an item form a Sydney retailer
on sunday afternoon, you'd figure that it would be processed and shipped Monday
no, it got processed and shipped Tuesday afternoon, 24hrs of just ignoring a $500.00 order, that sucks
so allowing two days for shipping that means 4 days from Sydney to Brisbane,
I have had stuff shipped from the US in 4 days. Am I wrong in thinking that the retailers here just don't care enough about repeat business to bother taking care of there customers?
They say support Aussie's but really why? when all you get is bad service
Thats it for me no more Aussie retailers, when I can buy OS and get better service and save in the process.

David

[Striker]

David.....even though I seem to buy a lot overseas...I have also bought heaps off retailers in Sydney.....I have always been impressed how quick I get the item....I normaly buy 1 day and is delivered to my door by 7:00 am the next morning.....every time....I have never had to wait more then 24 hours for my purchase.

I supose it depends what your buying.....and who your purchasing off.....I have to give a rap to Bintel and Andrews...both have been terrific to me.

Lee at andrews said to me on my last purchase that he couldn't get it into the post that day as it was already 2:30pm.....and he had to get the stock from his warehouse.....I said No Problem...I am not in a hurry......post it the next day.....then as I was leaving for work at 7:00am next morning there it was in my letterbox.....I was very impressed.

[MiG]

What was the method of payment?
I paid for an order on Saturday by doing a direct transfer and the banks didn't process it until Thursday. The order then came on Friday, which I consider to be very quick since it was intersate.

[De-Gen]

mine took nearly 2 weeks to arrive at my door.

[silvinator]

Sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience David. But, let me just say that I think that you are being just a little bit too harsh. Don't get me wrong, I understand exactly where you are coming from as I have had to wait well over a month for an astro book to be delivered to me from SA (it had to be sourced from O/S as there weren't any in stock) and I was not impressed. But apart from that, I've had nothing but good service from aussie retailers. My only gripe is that it can get very expensive to buy locally, but they're just trying to make a living and sometimes, economics and politics just will not accommodate bargains or competitive pricing for all.

But really, how quickly did you expect your package to arrive from Sydney to Brisbane? From what you are saying, it actually only took, well, less than two days for shipping and you're just unhappy with the processing time. I think you had overall, a nice transaction there mate. Do you know why it took them a day to actually process your order though? It might help to find out why or to at least let them know that you weren't happy to wait more than day for your order to be put through.

Here's another thing for you to consider: When I bought my scope (on a Saturday), I was told I wouldn't have it delivered until the following Tuesday as their shipments depended on their courier company that only came in on certain days to pick up and deliver their orders. I actually received my order the next wednesday becuase the courier company stuffed my order around. So maybe that's what happened with your order, it may not be the retailers fault. Did you speak to the retailer about an ETA on your order? You should let them know at least that you are unhappy so that this won't happen to the next unsuspecting customer.

I've also bought many astro equipment from the US as well and the quickest shipping time was around 4 days as well, but from the time of the transaction to the time the person actually went to post the thing brings the transaction time up to at least a week, if not more. So I'd say we're still getting good local service.

Just because you've had one delayed shipment from one retailer, it doesn't necessarily mean that all other aussie retailers are going to be like that. So I don't think that you should completely discount them all just yet.

[mch62]

Ditto to Westsky .
I have received gear from the States faster than most of the Australian retailers I have had the misfortune to use.
That being said , I have also got non Astronomical gear over night in Australia that was ordered in the afternoon , and I live 80ks from a major city.
Why can't we get a similar response on Astronomical gear.
We are paying premium prices for second rate services.
I repeat myself not all but fair few of em .
O well , she'll be right mate , what's your hurry , I'll get around to it tomorrow.

[Jonathan]

I see where you're coming from David. You do have to wonder if they really want your business sometimes. I ordered some books from an online shop in Adelaide that were listed as being a 3 to 4 day wait and it was 5 months before I saw them. I try to find reliable shops and stick with them.

4 days from Sydney to Brisbane sounds pretty slow to me. I order gear at work that comes from Singapore overnight without fail.

I agree with Striker about Bintel. I haven't had a problem ordering from there.

[westsky]

The item was paid for via a credit card using there online shop,
Two people have mentioned a certain shop ( and its not Lee) that was the retailer. My main gripe is with the attitude of the retailers,I did ring them and asked what the delay was, there answer, "thats how we do things here". These people want my custom and I get an answer like that, think of it this way what I buy from them helps pay there wages
without us the customers, they will close there doors very quickly.
Silvie I expect 2 days from Sydney to Brisbane, tomorrow is the 4th day and the item should arrive then,what if it doesn't would I be too harsh then? my concern is that an order was ignored for 24hrs, If you went to your local supermarket and was left standing around and ignored by the staff would you be happy? No you would go elsewhere.
I recently ordered a large item from the US I got a tracking number and 4 hours later could see that the item had left the warehouse and was on it's way to the airport.
total time from pickup from there warehouse to delivery at my door was 7 days Two of these days where public holidays here,the order was placed late afternoon there time. now thats service.
Silvie it's not the first time I have had late shipments from Aussie retailers, it's now about the 3rd.
I can understand problems with shipping I was in the transport industry for over 15 yrs ,problems happen this is a fact of life, but a dealer who doesn't care thats different.
that dealer doesn't deserve my money.
I sold my last business about 5 yrs ago, last month I got two calls from previous customers asking if I was still in business, I gave good service and looked after my customers and they remember that.
Maybe I'm being old fashioned but to me someone who choose's to give me there money deserve's my utmost attention.
I was expecting another item this week from NZ, the person shipping
the item was delayed and missed the post, He sent an apoligetic email telling me exactly what had happened, I'm happy, he kept me informed this is the way it should be.
If they had sent an email informing me of some sort of delay that would be different,they didn't and thats the last $$$$ they will ever get from me.
I could have ordered this item from the US and got it here in 5 days and saved money in the process , this time I thought no I will do the right thing and support the local bloke, never again.

David

[Starkler]

I placed an order for a scope with Bintel Monday morning and was told it will be shipped that day.
Im guessing it should arrive tomorrow.

[westsky]

Hi Geoff, I placed my order Sunday online, it didn't ship till Tuesday, if the item was out of stock , this I understand, to ignore the order till Tuesday sorry I don't.

David.

[silvinator]

David, I'm very surprised that they gave you such an answer like that. That truly doesn't sound like they care about their customers at all. But it also doesn't sound like them at all. I'm very puzzled.
And I didn't realise you hadn't received the item yet. I thought that you had so that is why I asked about how long you thought a delay was. I thought the item arrived already within two days and that's why I thought you were being a bit harsh so I'm sorry about that. Since you haven't received it yet, then yes it does warrant criticism.
I can't understand why it took them a day to process your order either. It really depends on what you ordered. If you ordered a scope from them, maybe they were going over it and collimating it and stuff like that :confused:
I don't think you are being old fashioned at all. You're right, we are paying top dollar for premium equipment, we have to expect good service in return.
I too expect good communication about my orders, which I never had with the book incident I mentioned in my above post. It is very frustrating indeed. I was the one doing all the chasing up, not once did they take the initiative to contact me and let me know how my order was going.
I guess I was just trying to highlight things from a different perspective. It's hard to understand why a lot of people have had such bad experiences with aussie astro retailers when surely these retailers know what a small market they are catering for. And what happens when too many people get so fed up with the service, start buying everything from overseas? The prices will go up, many astro shops might go out of business and then where would us amateurs be?

[westsky]

Silvie, If there's a genuine reason for late shipping thats fine as long as we are made aware of the problem. The item ordered was a Meade DSI CCD, small box not much work to do to get it ready for shipping I can't understand the delay also.
I ordered from them on a recomedation from a friend, I have bought from them before some yrs ago.
The person I spoke to today was named michael I have no idea who he is , he could be a salesperson or owner. But his attitude stinks.
I am hoping that this thread gets brought to the attention of the owners of the shop and they take heed of whats been said, this may help others in the future.I will be sending an email to the retailer voicing my concerns.

David.

[Striker]

David have you given up on the Meade LPI already.....or just experimenting.

[westsky]

Tony, Decided I needed a more senstive autoguider and the ability to sit at home at night and try to take pretty pictures :-))
The DSI seems the best value for money on the market today.
I am also getting close to finishing my CCD scope an 8" F4 ,perfect for
CCD work.

David

[DougAdams]

Hmm, I'm sorry to hear your story. I ordered my 100mm from Bintel at 2:30pm in the afternoon. They called me by 3pm to take the particulars and informed me the scope would be delivered the *next* morning. I didn't believe it, but it turned up just as they said it would.

[westsky]

Hi Doug, I had a good recommendation about Bintel from a friend and I had bought from them some years back so I was suprised to get the treatment I did.
It may be a one off occurence, I hope it is .

regards
David.

[ballaratdragons]

I ordered my 12" Dobber Deluxe from an Australian Dealer (you know where from) on monday morning. The owner said the shipment has just arrived at his warehouse from Taiwan half an hour before I rang.

He emailed that night and informed me that he had to go to the warehouse and unload the container and find my scope and other orders on his own as he had a staff member off sick that day. (Those 12" scope boxes are heavy) so he was emailing me to inform me that he could not get it ready for the courier on time that day.

I appreciated that.

Then he emailed again in the morning (Tuesday) and said my scope and accessories plus other items I ordered where in the shop, packed up, addressed and ready to go.

I appreciated that.

Then he emailed me that night and told me the courier service didn't even turn up that day when they were booked to do so for all that shop's deliveries. (niether of us were impressed). At least he emailed me and told me.

I appreciated that.

The next night he emailed and said it's on it's way.

I appreciated that.

Friday Morning it arrived.

It sounds a long time: ordered Monday, arrived Friday. But I was informed throughout the whole process. Yes, it felt like a month but he had the decency to keep me up to date with legitimate reasons.

I emailed him friday and thanked him.

He appreciated that.

I will order from him again purely because he gave a damn.

[westsky]

Hi ken If I had been kept informed then there would be no problem,
the dealer did the right thing by you , in my case he didn't.
how hard is it to send an email saying there will be a delay in shipping or processing or whatever, it would take a minute from a busy day.


David

[Starkler]

My job in part involves solving issues for customers, and yes keeping the customer informed of issues and delays always helps to defuse tempers.
Nothing worse than unreasonable delays and not knowing what the hell is going on.

Michael from B***** is helpful, but the woman there needs a lesson in customer service.

[ballaratdragons]

David,

We used different dealers, but I can imagine your frustration.
People don't usually mind if they are kept in touch.

Geoff is right about that woman too. Sounds like the one I got when I rang for a quote and she got angry when I asked how much for delivery to Victoria. Another reason I went elsewhere (and got a better price as well).

[thomo]

I ordered a TV Plossl from Bintel a couple of weeks ago. Ordered online on a Monday night, got the auto confirmation by email, but nothing after that to say the order was shipped/delayed/whatever. However, the package turned up at 8am on the Wednesday morning. I have also ordered from Astronomy Online with quick service and hope to have a telescope order in with Lee by mid April when the credit card is back down to an acceptable level.

I know it costs more to buy from the Aussie dealers but with the extra stress ordering overseas, I think it is worth it for most purchases (unless you are getting a really good deal overseas). One thing I would recommend to the Aussie dealers is to get their websites up-to-date. In quite a few cases the prices are outdated, specials aren't on there, and there is no indication of which items are in stock. The Internet provides a large proportion of their sales so they should make the effort to get the info up-to-date!

[thomo]

Sounds like there was a lot of appreciation goin' on! :D

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Thomo,

I appreciate that you noticed! :P

:lol2:

[westsky]

Hi Thomo,
My experience in buying OS goes back a long time, about 6 yrs, I have had 3 scopes and numerous other smaller items delivered from the US and am yet to find a problem with any transaction, they have all been stress free.
Agreed the dealers here need to update there websites more often there's still dealers who don't have price's or online ordering,one day they will wake up to the real world and realise that online ordering is not a thing of the future it's a here and now thing, people are busy time is short .I research what I want to buy through forum's like this read reviews and make my choice. I want to get the item at the best price most times but am prepared to pay a bit more for good service
I don't have time to go to the shop, most times when I have the time it's when the shop is closed,so online is best for me.
it's time to give the dealers a wake up call.

David.

[iceman]

Couldn't agree more with this.

David sorry to hear your bad experiences with Bintel. From all reports i've ever read from people who bought stuff there, it's generally been nothing but good remarks. Hopefully it was just a one-off.

I guess this topic has brought up another issue about what should or shouldn't be discussed on a public forum about bad experiences with retailers. While dissemination of information (both good and bad) is a great thing for consumers, I have to find out what that means for myself personally, in terms of liability etc.

I know CN had a section for vendor feedback, where you could b1tch about or praise a vendor, but they closed it down due to the potential for defamation law suits.

I know David was very careful in the original post, not mentioning the vendor, but in Australia it's really not hard to narrow it down since there's literally only a couple of major retailers. In the US there's 10's or 20's of major retailers. It only took a couple of posts in and it was obvious who was being talked about.

Anyway it's brought up a good discussion, but i'll have to speak with the moderators about what it means for the forum and what sort of talk about vendor feedback (good and bad) is allowable.. not to stop free speech but simply because of what implications it might have for me personally as the owner/administrator of this website.

Talk about where to get things from, prices etc is fine of course and unchanged.

[rumples riot]

Let me chime in.

I have always had very good things happen with the aformentioned retailer. In fact my latest purchase was supposed to be at my house at 9.00 am the next morning. It turned out that TNT do not do overnight service to my area in Adelaide. So the retailer reimbursed me the cash that I had paid for 9.00am delivery.

Now as to defamation. Years ago I was out of work during the recession of the early 90's. I decided to go back to Uni and I studied law. I graduated and practiced law at a small firm in the city, I actually wanted to practice human rights orientated law but got involved in commercial practice. Don't ask me how I go from the Army(cartography) to the building industry to law and then back to the building industry. Its a long story and I get bored easily. I can expalin if you like.

Anyway I digress. Now legal defamation is defined as a statement/s made by a person/s against another that primarily affects their employment, trading ability or their ability to make an income. Since a retailer is most often a company, the company is considered a person also. Now there are limitations upon the above statement and one of them is that a statement is not defamation if it is true. Our legal system does understand that people should be able to criticised for there actions. Bear in mind though that even true statements can be held libelous in certain circumstances. There are too many situations to be defined here.

Unlike the Americans, there has in recent years (30-40) been a common sense approach taken to lega judgements on appeal. Americans can sue for the most insane things. This does not hold true here, the High Court of Australia and Full Benches of the Supreme Courts in each State are most reluctant to go down the path of the American legal system and therefore adopted an approach that looks at the common sense of the situation. This may change though in time.

Anyway, statements such as delivery not being made over night and the like are not likely to cause much of a stir. Especially when this is not the norm. Some one might have been having a bad day. Statements that are totally unfounded are likely to incur the wrath the victim and the Court. My suggestion is that threads like this are pretty harmless and should be allowed. Where someone is making statements such as a previous thread, that needs to be stopped in its tracks and deleted.

Also, this web site located overseas, what that means is that from a jurisdictional point of view the question can be raised, where is the offending statement made? If it is made on the site then it is unlikely that an Australian retailer has the jurisdiction to sue as the statement was made over seas. However, it might be argued that the statements are made on the sovereign soil of Australia and therefore have the jurisdiction to institute legal proceedings to any offending statements.

That aside, I think that if people are careful about what they say, then I won't have to delete their post. I don't delete posts unless they are offensive or legally questionable, since I am legally qualified (and if you want I can post a pic of both my degrees and admission to practice certificates as proof) I will keep a close eye on these sort of issues to protect Mike and this site. Have not had to do that yet, so lets keep it that way.

BTW, Australia does not have the right to free speech, so be careful what you say.

If anyone has any questions, regarding the issue of defamation please PM me and I will do the research to answer your questions if I don't knwo the immediate answer. Mike if you want to discuss this further please let me know.

[Roger Davis]

Gee they were open SUNDAY? What hours of business do you work?
Not going to argue over this one, but as a one person operation I try to do the best I can. Sometimes you just can't make the post because the phone wont' stop ringing or a customer in the shop is busy kicking tyres and you just can't tell them to rack off so you can do some work. You don't know who the person is in your shop and although it would be nice to trust everyone, you can't afford to. Too many things go walking.
When you look at my office hours Tues-Fri 9-5, Sat 9-12, it doesn't tell you that I get in at 7am and leave usually around 6pm, and it doesn't tell you that the repairs get done on the Monday when I am not supposed to be here (I still won't answer the phone, but I have been known to deal with any customer who walks in [this is not an invitation!]) So I do the best I can and if that offends some people, so be it.

[anthony2302749]

I seems to me much has been said on this topic. David I think you are being a little unjust without taking in all the facts. 1. You places the order on a Sunday (the business was closed) 2. The order was made online (Other people would have also places orders online, therefore you would be in a queue) 3. You paid by credit card (the business must get clearance from the bank) 4. Your order is then processed and packaged (remember they have other customers who have ordered online too) 5. The package is posted (becomes the responsibility of Australia Post, and they can be slow delivering mail sometimes).

<FONT color=black><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><o:p></o:p></FONT></P><P style=
If it took 4 days to arrive this is still very good and no slow if you purchase the item from O/S. Now, may be if you waited to Monday to place your order you would have had it by Wednesday, one day earlier not much to complain about is it. Finally, if you have a grip with the way someone runs a business you need to talk to them in a courteous manner. This is call customer feedback, and without good feedback how can they improve on their service. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Anthony <o:p></o:p>

[ving]

if I get anything delivered from anywhere with in a week i'm happy :)
no bad ones yet!

[jdb]

rumples is right, not defamation if it is the truth...(liable if in print rr?)

I guess one way you forum admins could deal with this is to have a "Watchdog" consumer advocacy section. (rr would be the ideal moderator for this given his background)

APC (Australian Personal Computer) magazine has a fantastic section where customers inform them of their bad experiences with vendours and the magazine typically give the vendors an opportunity to reply to the complaints.

Gives customers an avenue to vent, keeps vendors honest and on their toes and gives potential customers an idea of who to (or not to) deal with.

I guess you still have to be careful of vexatious claims - but if you get both parties involved then they should become apparent...

Most (if not all) business welcome constructive feedback...who knows, they might not have been aware that they have a problem...you could be doing them a favour!

[asimov]

Heres my experience with 1 company, whom I won't bother mentioning: 7 mths ago I emailed requesting a price for an item that was on their site..2 weeks later I emailed them again because I received no answer..1 mth later I emailed them, this time to tell them I was not a happy chappy & I will take my business elsewhere etc etc. About 3 mths later I get a reply from someone that works there, & I quote: 'sorry, too busy, hope you find what your looking for'..Naturally I just shook my head in dis-belief & deleted it.

Last night (I kidd you not!) I receive an email from the same retailer, this time the owner...& I quote: 'You could have just rang me asking for a price, rather than throwing a tizzie, signed: amused'

At the time, I was willing to spend a grand on this item I was looking for.

It's safe to say I will NEVER hassle them again!

[Striker]

Well I have a positive just to throw in.

Just picked up my brand new travel mount EQ5 with stainless steel legs....got it from Star Optics on the Gold Coast...excellant people and great service from Lex & Chris.

I payed $450 for this mount where a local well known shop here in Brisbane quoted me $899

How they survive I dont know.

I highly recommend Star Optics.

[Starkler]

I have another good dealer report.

I ordered some colour filters earlier this week from AOE.
It seems there was a mix up with the courier and I received a rather lengthy explanation and apology from them , all without prompting from myself.
These things happen but to keep ones customers informed is good customer service.

:thumbsup: to AOE

[anthony2302749]

Yes the EQ5 is a bargain, but do you get good after sale service. The EQ5 mount is not perfect and there is a lot that can be done to improve it, such as re-machined both RA & Dec axes for smoother operation, worm gear reseated, worm end play bearings changed to Teflon (better tracking), grease changed etc. I know one Melbourne business that will.


Also there has been a lot of talk about bad costumer service, as I had mention earlier if you have a grip with the way someone runs a business you need to talk to them in a courteous manner. This is call customer feedback and without good feedback how can they improve on their service.

I have work for a business that retails in astronomical equipment and have experienced the worst a customer can offer, no fault of my own. They are usually rude and abrupt and never armed with the facts. They think they are right and are unwilling to listen to reason (you see this all the time at Cole, Safeway etc) and when you are dealing with a customer like this it is a no win situation.

When dealing with a business or person uses some common sense and be courteous (both of which are lacking in today’s society), it will help make the transaction go smoothly and everyone will be happy.

Anthony

[janoskiss]

The AOE people (Dan & Raff I dealt with) are amazingly good communicators. They take their time answering as many questions as you have, even if it's about inexpensive products. They answered question after question in numerous correspondences via email when I was looking for a diagonal for well under $100. I thought I was really testing their patience by the third email, but they were just as friendly answering my questions after that.

[westsky]

I don't know why this thread was resurected after 7 months but he's a couple of answers.
Roger, if the first line of your post was aimed at me then I can tell you that for 20yrs I worked 18 hours a day 7 days a week, so I,m no stranger to being self employed and working long hours I know how tough it is.5 yrs ago I sold my business and still after this long I get calls from previous customers asking me to re-enter the business I was in as they can't get the service I gave them.As a retailer I,m surprised you want to re-start this thread, from a business point of view it's not really a good idea, you don't know who's reading this and maybe someone out there has had an issue with your service over the years.

Anthony, In this day and age paying by credit card is fast, you get instant notification that the charge has gone through, you don't have to wait for clearance from a bank, a phone call or eftpos transaction is all it takes.
as to being courteous, read the above post, pay attention to the reply I got from the retailer, basically he was rude.
Aussie Post did there bit and got the package here within there timeframe.
If you think 4 days from Sydney to Brisbane is good, then what happened this morning?
I recieved a large parcel from Syd that was posted 9.am Yesterday morning, thats right yesterday morning, it arrived at 11am today, now thats great service, and the carrier was good old Aussie Post, Don't worry I rang them to thank them for the exceptional service.

Last week I recieved a phone call from a friend of a friend asking me about a certain digital imager that I use, he is interested in buying one and thought it would be a good idea to talk to a local retailer about the product. he got his questions answered and was almost ready to buy when my friend told him to contact me, it seems the retailer he spoke to told him that he needed to buy a seperate guide scope to be able to use this camera.
So the retailer either does not know his product that he is an agent for or he was just trying to get that little bit extra out of the sale, now having dealings with this retailer before I think that the reason for him saying that he needed to spend more money on a guide scope was plain and simple he doesn't know his product, I can't believe he was trying to rip his customer off, especially as he is a repeat customer of many years.

Strange how just about everybody I know in astronomy buys from overseas why?
because they all have stories about Aussie retailers like this one.

cheers
David.

[westsky]

Anthony, one question where do you get the idea that the EQ5 Dec and Ra axis have to be re-machined?
in all the years I have owned these mounts ( since they where called the EQ4) I have never once had to machine any part nor have I ever seen this put forward as a fix for these mounts, sure they are not perfect but they are not rubbish either, they can be used for astrophotography if some care is taken with the adjustments that need doing.
cheers
david.

[anthony2302749]

David you may want to look a the discussion on improving the EQ5 mount. Take the time to read the information you may understand were I am coming from.

Research the internet you will find the information.

[janoskiss]

Perhaps the "bad service" in the thread title should be replaced by something like "customer service"...? Left around for long enough a search engine will link the phrase "bad service" with all that's been written on this thread, including the posts about dealers who provide good service. :shrug:

[westsky]

Anthony, I,m an internet junkie , I know these mounts backwards ( I own three of them ) and I say again that in the 8 years I have been using them there is no mention of having to re-machine any part of them.
I have seen where some people have changed the bearings, used different grease. The grease they use these days is as good as any you can buy so thats one item that doesn't need changing.
Anthony I think you need to do a bit of research yourself before you make blanket statements.

David.

[Starkler]

Lets not let this thread degenerate into a slanging match please or we'll have to lock the thread.

FWIW, I think two days to ship an item isnt such a terrible thing, unless the dealer promised otherwised. My job has a customer service component and I find the most important things are to communicate re any delays or issues and to always do what you say you will do.

[westsky]

Geoff ,it's not my intention to get into a slanging match, it is my intention to correct wrong information.
this forum is the biggest thing to hit Australian astronomy since Adam was a boy, newbies come here to learn and gain an insight into what is the right scope for them,
When a statement is made about any item it should be correct.By giving the wrong info then you could be depriving a person of years of enjoyment from that item, they may well buy a much dearer item or worse still decide not to take up the hobby due to the increased cost that they think they may incur because of something they read here.I much prefer to see someone enter the hobby with the correct info.

The original issue was not the two days shipping but the two working days the dealer sat on the order before shipping with no communication.

cheers
David.

[atalas]

Its just amazing that even when you falk out your own money you have no rights ! seems to me some people are getting away with murder !
Yeah will just keep taking It from the other side ! end of story .

ITS YOUR MONEY

Louie

[Rodstar]

I just discovered this thread, and the various comments of others about defamation laws. I provided an advice only today to a company in relation to a defamation issue, and have been involved in defamation cases in the past in my legal practice. :rolleyes:

At the risk of contradicting some other comments appearing before me:

1. A defamatory statement is a written or oral statement which contains a defamatory imputation.

2. A defamatory statement against an individual will normally relate to their character; a defamatory statement against a company will normally relate to the ethical standards, trustworthiness, or competence of a company.

3. For someone to bring legal proceedings for defamation, they would firstly have to write a letter to the offender seeking a retraction. In this letter, they would need to:

(a) identify the statement which is allegedly defamatory
(b) identify the audience (noting that is must be a third party - ie, you cannot defame someone to their face, unless someone else is watching!)
(c) identify the defamatory imputation underlying the statement.

4. If the retraction is forthcoming, the offended party will not normally be able to bring proceedings because (at least under section 14 of the Defamation Act NSW) a claim will fail where the comments are unlikely to be believed, and a retraction would normally undermine the public's acceptance of the impugned statement.

5. Unlike most other torts, you do not need to demonstrate actual damage to be entitled to compensation. The court will award damages for a defamatory statement on its face. Evidence of economic loss may be another head of damages also awarded, if loss or loss of a chance is demonstrated in the evidence before the court.

6. It is not strictly speaking correct to say that a true statement is not defamatory. In court proceedings, once it has been shown that a defamatory statement has been made, it is then a defence to demonstrate that the statement is true.

7. As defamation requires "publication" (whether by delivering an oral statement, email or document), the applicable law will almost certainly be the place where the third party hears or reads the statement. Thus, if I send a letter from Australia to the Jakarta Herald criticising an Indonesian judge by name, and this is held to be defamatory, it would actionable by the Indonesian judge in Indonesia under Indonesian law as the audience of the newspaper is the Indonesian public (Now, I wonder how fair that trial would be??!!).

8. When I say something to the effect of, "I hate X. I think his policies will bring Australia into ruin", I am making a statement of my own beliefs. I am not asserting some general truth about X, and so I am not defaming X. Compare this with the statement, "X is having an improper relationship with the Speaker of the House". This second statement is asserting a truth about X that is true for all people. It is clearly defamatory. If you have a look at the Letters to the Editor section of a newspaper, you will see that most letters fall into the first category. These are entirely safe and non-contentious. Compare this with Latham's diaries. If he is put to proof about some of the matters he asserts as fact in his book about the character of others around him, in my view he may be in some difficulty (notice I personalised that statement).

Turning to the question of posts on this forum, I note the following:

1. Each person is clearly posting their own views. Mike and the other moderators have never represented that they agree with the views expressed by others, and so I cannot see how a claim against Mike et al could possible succeed. Any person properly advised would realise that such a claim must fail. (Mike, for abundant caution, you may wish to spell out somewhere on the site that the comments posted on the site should be read as being the opinions of individual posters, and should not be inferred in any way to be the views of the moderators).

2. So long as when each person posts about a company or individual, they make it clear that they are merely expressing their personal opinion, no problems.

3. If someone is offended, there will be an opportunity to retract before litigation commences, and a retraction will almost always be the better part of valour (to mix metaphors slightly).

In short (at the end of a long post), chill out everyone! :drink:

[iceman]

Rod is a legend!

[TidaLpHasE]

Communication goes a long way to providing a good service, and a sign of respect from the business to show that they actually appreciate you giving them the $$.

I think the best sign a business can show how good their service is as a whole, is the way they deal with any dispute that arrises, this will show their true attitude and respect toward it's customers.

[edit] I would be more than happy to retract any statement that has offended:whistle:.

[h0ughy]

Are we talking mythical here Mike or real life ridgey didge Aussie superhero :rofl:

[gaa_ian]

So Trev ... have you got a new scope yet ?
Getting out under a clear dark sky with a BIG scope is the cure for most Ill's

[janoskiss]

Rod may be a legend but sheesh that last post of his hurt my brain... (and I only skimmed once 1/2 way thru it).

[johnno]

Hi All,
Just my 2 cents,
I ordered a pair of binoculars from Centre.net.au in Melbourne YESTERDAY AFTERNOON,I rang them first and asked how long for delivery,usually about 2 to 3 days was the reply,I was amazed to find them here in the Hunter Valley TODAY,at around 3.30 pm.
Thats about as good as it can get.
Regards.John

[Roger Davis]

David, the remark was not aimed at you, but at the incredible fact that there is life after astronomy.
A week ago I sent a pair of binoculars from here to Rosebud by Oz Post. I was informed by the recipient that he hadn't yet received them on Thursday. I tried to locate the parcel for him at three postal centres, but without luck. The attitude of the Postal staff at my local PO was "we didn't do it", tell me do you think that is good service? They didn't ask "what can we do to help?" they went immediately onto the defensive, as most people do. Now there is a complaints form that I have registered with Oz Post.
Re the EQ5 mounts, only three weeks ago I had an EQ5 brought in with the RA seized, and that was straight from the supplier. That was number 6 for the year. You have been very lucky with your mounts, I am happy for you, but happy for me who gets stuck with duds I am not. It means over an hour of disassembly, cleaning off the glue (sorry, your grease) and then reassembly.
Don't teach Grandma how to suck eggs, as my Grandpa used to say: If you can't suck seed suck eggs. (This is meant with humour, not serious so it is not libelous nor slanderous. :-)
Sorry I resurrected the thread, but like our Saviour the action seems to have created quite an uproar. Obviously things still needed to be said.