BOSS Supernova 38

[Greg Bock]

Hi All,
this must be a record. Stuart Parker discovered supernova number 38 for BOSS early this morning in ESO 462-16 (aka PGC64605). Its his fourth discovery since 26 June.
He has certainly kept me busy with analysing his images.

The interesting thing this time though is that we notified our contacts in Chile for a spectral analysis, which triggered observing runs at both Las Campanas, which confirmed it in near infra red images, and also the 8.2m Gemini South telescope at CTIO which confirmed within 12 hours of Stu's find that it was an early type 1a, about 1 week before maximum light.

It is currently about magnitude 16.3 and brightening, so it wont be a visual target for many smaller amateur scopes unless they are fitted with a camera.

[jjjnettie]

:) Keep 'em coming.
Congrats, yet again.

[DavidTrap]

Strewth!

DT

[Greg Bock]

Yes jjj, he certainly seems to 'keep 'em coming'.

I'm flat out just keeping up with the email traffic that each discovery and its analysis generates. I checked on today's effort, which runs to 45 emails in 12 hours. That is, received and sent between Stu, me, Pete, Col, and a few of our contacts in Sth and Nth America.

Also yes David, I seem to remember when Stu called me while I was driving to work this morning with yet another discovery, it was a bit more colourful than 'strewth'!

[Visionoz]

Wow! you all are running in overdrive and working both end of the candles! Congrats anyway :thumbsup:

Cheers
Bill

[SkyViking]

Congrats to you all again, that is fantastic! :)

[PeterM]

Stu is having a fantastic run indeed, but it is from sheer hard work and dedication. He has taken some 3000 images in the last few days. Greg, Colin and I are now using Drop Box to access images so that we can assist in blinking Stu's images. This gives us something to do while the weather in Brissy remains wet. New Zealand the land of the long white cloud? I don't think so!
The other thing to note here is just how much support professional astronomers are giving the discoveries. If you could see the list of Astronomers that we now have daily email contact with from 'scopes like the Gemini, Magellan, SALT etc it is just unbelievable.
The science that has come from some of the BOSS discoveries is also astonishing and shortly we will be able to let you know about a paper recently submitted to the Astrophysical Journal (with our names attached to a long list of professional astronomers!!! Wow) that has significant implications for Supernova types, maybe even rewriting the textbooks!
It just gets better and better.

[Greg Bock]

Hi all, this is amazing.

we have been advised from Chile that it is likely this object is a "super-Chandra" SN Ia, reminiscent of SN 2006gz, 2007if, 2009dc.
I researched "Super-Chandra", and have extracted some info below.
If it is a Super Chandra, it looks to me like Stu has stumbled upon a very rare object indeed, which is still quite a mystery.

A type 1a supernova is normally a white dwarf star less than 1.4 solar masses, and is part of a binary system. In this case however, was it an explosion of a single white dwarf of mass greater than the Chandra limit of 1.4 solar masses in a binary system, or a merger of 2 white dwarves, or something else?
I would imagine that this discovery should generate a lot of interest and intense observing time to try to add to the missing body of knowledge here?

At this stage, it is still early days, so things could change, but we'll keep you posted!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From wikepedia:
In April 2003, the Supernova Legacy Survey observed a type Ia supernova, designated SNLS-03D3bb, in a galaxy approximately 4 billion light years away. According to a group of astronomers at the University of Toronto and elsewhere, the observations of this supernova are best explained by assuming that it arose from a white dwarf which grew to twice the mass of the Sun before exploding. They believe that the star, dubbed the "Champagne Supernova" by University of Oklahoma astronomer David R. Branch, may have been spinning so fast that centrifugal force allowed it to exceed the limit. Alternatively, the supernova may have resulted from the merger of two white dwarfs, so that the limit was only violated momentarily.


From Yale News, March 15 2010:
Since 2003, four supernovae have been discovered that were so bright, cosmologists wondered whether their white dwarfs had surpassed the Chandrasekhar limit. These supernovae have been dubbed the “super-Chandrasekhar” supernovae.
Now Richard Scalzo of Yale, as part of a collaboration of American and French physicists called the Nearby Supernova Factory, has measured the mass of the white dwarf star that resulted in one of these rare supernovae, called SN 2007if, and confirmed that it exceeded the Chandrasekhar limit. They also discovered that the unusually bright supernova had not only a central mass, but a shell of material that was ejected during the explosion as well as a surrounding envelope of pre-existing material. The team hopes this discovery will provide a structural model with which to understand the other supermassive supernovae.
Using observations from telescopes in Chile, Hawaii and California, the team was able to measure the mass of the central star, the shell and the envelope individually, providing the first conclusive evidence that the star system itself did indeed surpass the Chandrasekhar limit. They found that the star itself appears to have had a mass of 2.1 times the mass of the Sun (plus or minus 10 percent), putting it well above the limit.
Being able to measure masses for all parts of the star system tells the physicists about how the system may have evolved—a process that is currently poorly understood. “We don’t really know much about the stars that lead to these supernovae,” Scalzo said. “We want to know more about what kind of stars they were, and how they formed and evolved over time.

[Nico13]

Great work guys. :thumbsup:

[DavidTrap]

Strewth^10!!

DT

[allan gould]

That's an amazing contribution from the team. Well done and you all should be immensely proud of your hard work.

[Greg Bock]

Hi all,
Yes, Allan, we certainly are proud of it.
To add further to a question that DT asked last week about Stu's success at finding these, he has been particularly productive at imaging galaxies from New Zealand over the last 2 weeks or so because he has both observatories imaging, and has much clearer weather than we do here in Queensland. As I write this, we have had 3 days of cloud, with much of Queensland recording more rain for July than has been recorded in the last 60 years! And, we still have several days of cloud with rain increasing up to the weekend, so no more imaging for Peter and I here.

To give you an idea of image numbers, in the last 10 days since 1 July, I have imaged and checked about 400 of my own images taken at my Windaroo Lakes Observatory, and checked over 200 of Stu's images, so 600 total. Now, 400 images checked is a healthy number for me to image and check after only 10 days. Peter has probably checked the same numbers as me.

However by contrast, Stu has taken more than 3000 images altogether over the same time!!

That's why he picks these up so effectively.

[gary]

Wow! Absolutely fantastic work by Stu and the team! :thumbsup:

Greg, thanks for the background on the "super-Chandra". If this latest
supernova happens to fall into this class, based on the information you provided,
it certainly will be of intense interest to the professionals.

Could you please keep us posted on this thread if it turns out to be true?

Might fall into that exclusive class of incredibly rare finds by an amateur observer.

Stu, we are all in awe! :prey2:

[gary]

Peter, that's wonderful. It makes us proud just to know you guys. :2thumbs:

All the best,

Gary & Mai

[h0ughy]

sorry guys i was just reading the Numbers and thought the thread was an upgrade of the day before - then the penny dropped ;)

Fantastic effort that is obviously paying dividends . congratulations

[Greg Bock]

No worries H0ughy
we on the BOSS team are flat out keeping up with the numbers too lately...
It's a great ride though.

[BPO]

The sky above BPO has been completely clear (100% photometric) more than 80 nights since the end of March. Maybe more than 90. I'll have to check the ASC record. But whatever the case, it's certainly been a great run of weather, and shows no sign of ending any time soon.

:thumbsup:

[RobF]

Stunning work guys. You're becoming legendary!

:clap::bowdown::cheers:


Please keep sharing the info - this one sounds like quite a haul on its own.

[Park123]

Hi All,
Thank you so much for all your great comments. It is always fun to read what everybody has to say.
I don’t post on here that often mostly as I am either on the farm or blinking images or imaging galaxies but the Guys do a great job keeping every one informed.
Well, I have been hardly been able to take a breath in the last week or so. The lack of sleep and busy at my day job has made things rather challenging.
One thing people must remember we are just having a good run at the moment. I wish SN hunting was this easy but it isn’t. We have had long breaks between discoveries. For some reason we are just having a good run...long may it continue .
It is alot of fun to work with Greg,Pete, Colin to get things done ASAP before someone else gets the discoveries .
Many thanks mist go to Greg who has been fantastic this week. As he said the emails that fly back and forth are very hard to keep up with. Actually at one stage I had to stop and think what I was sending for which discovery.
This lasts one sounds very interesting and contributing to that is rather cool.
Attached is my first image pretty poor but you get the idea.

Stu
:thumbsup:

[astroron]

Well done Stu, and the BOSS team, I am in awe as to your success.
Great team work is obviously paying off in spades :thumbsup:
Not much chance of getting a look at this latest one for me ,much too faint.

Cheers:thumbsup:

[Ric]

This is amazing guys, you are on an amazing run.

A fantastic effort

[Greg Bock]

HI all,
we finally have the Central Bureau Electronic Telegram announcement today for this supernova discovery which is now designated as SN2012dn.
Congratulations once again Stu.

And, as mentioned above, the CBET says that this object was imaged by the 8-m Gemini South telescope and shows it to be a type-Ia supernova
approximately a week before maximum light and suggests that 2012dn is a super-Chandra event.

The BOSS website is here:
http://bosssupernova.com/

[madbadgalaxyman]

BOSS, this time you have found something really unusual, thanks to your enthusiasm, persistence, and hard work.

I always admire amateurs like yourselves who put in a very-long-term and very sustained effort, despite the very time-consuming distractions of 'non-astronomical' life.
The enthusiasm and interest and persistence, usually is rewarded, eventually, with some really worthwhile results.

I have had my head buried in books about the other end of the evolutionary spectrum (star formation) for some months, thereby missing out on the "fear and awe" sensation of these SNe going off like super firecrackers.

Getting two white dwarfs and merging them sounds like an interesting science experiment

Cheers, Madbadgalaxyman

[Suzy]

Hi Greg & the BOSS team :hi:
A huge congratulations to you guys!
Your work never fails to amaze me and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy because I know you guys... aaah so proud!
I couldn't believe reading through the threads- one after the other (!) until this fourth one, of all this discovery in just 2 wks. Whoa, the last one a doozy! :scared2:

I've been trying to get my head around the science of this Chandra event but I'm not having much luck getting much information, grrrr.
There is a fantastic article in the current Astronomy magazine on exploding stars. It sure was interesting reading what they're saying about the how bright an sn appears seems to depend on its host galaxy, i.e. high star formation rates, low mass galaxies etc.
I'm no expert on stars. I'm learning- it's tough .:P:lol: Anyhow, I'm waffling on! Fascinating stuff!!!

Now- seeing as you guys have had so many SN catches in the last fortnight, is it too hard a task for you guys to nab me one on my b'day around the corner- you have till friday (I'll extend for w/end).. hmmm :question: A mag 13 would be spiffy :question: . Get to work now.. go on... :thumbsup::lol:

Congratulations once again team BOSS on your brilliants efforts.
Please keep the updates coming.

[PeterM]

Hmmmm Suzy, until Friday... well weather is not looking good in Brissy (as you know) so Stu is the most likely for number 5 this month. Saturday I will be imaging from Leyburn so maybe a belated SN? Will do our best.

We have been very honoured to have our names included with many professional astronomers on a paper that has been presented to the Astrophysical Journal. It is to do with a SN discovered last year and has some interesting ramifications for some SN types. I will be more than surprised if in the not too distant future a Sky & Telescope article does not cover this. Will keep you informed when we can say more about the paper submitted.

Happy Birthday in advance though I am sure there will be a huge thread on the day.

[Greg Bock]

HI Suzy,
Rest assured that I have been trying hard to find a new SN before Friday for your birthday, but, well, you know the unusual and frustrating Queensland weather right now, just impossible to to do much at all.

I did manage to image and check 140 galaxies that were taken during a brief clear spell between clouds n rain on last Monday, but nothing there for you I'm afraid.

One thing that I did find was an interesting object that appears to be a variable star, for which, i cant find any references. I'll start a new thread on that with some image details to see if anyone else can help identify it.

[Suzy]

Thanks Peter, I look forward to that article! :D
Meanwhile, it's supposed to be clear in Brissy from Fri thru Tues, so there's hope! :D

Greg, good job despite the weather. ;)
Regarding that variable star, I'm fb friends with Sebastian Otero who is the consultant for AAVSO, let me know if I can be of some help as I can easily get in touch with him.

Now heads down, scopes up, concentration levels 100% for my birthday nova. :prey::prey::prey: We're looking good for weekend weather.:D I've already lined up a comet for my birthday (96/P Machholtz) :D just seeing it could prove a challenge :rolleyes:. I'll settle for a nice b'day pic of it. :innocent: We're discussing it in Celestial Events forum. Maybe you guys would be able to have a crack at it on Sat. night. :question:.
I'm keeping you guys busy aren't I. :P:lol:

Peter, do you remember which issue of AS&T that article was on you? I'd love to read it again & pop a post-it bookmarker in the mag.

[madbadgalaxyman]

Wow, Pete, I am genuinely impressed! You are a published astronomer in the professional literature of our subject, and that is not easy to achieve.

You are now a worker in the world of professional astronomy, and the paper will be cited by other workers in their papers, so you will have a record of citations, as do all professional scientists!

It says a lot for your persistence, diligence, and amount of knowledge.
I think that the power of collaboration is also a significant part of your success in entering the ranks of professionally published astronomers.
(as an isolated worker, for instance, the most I have been able to achieve - so far - is a credit or two in published papers)

cheers,
Robert

P.S.
Sometimes the work of amateurs is cited by professional astronomers in their papers, even though they don't know it is. Years ago, I emailed Dennis Webb about his Arp Galaxies site, and I said to him that it must be satisfying for his site to be regularly referred to in papers written by professional astronomers.
He actually didn't know, at the time, that his work was being used by professional astronomers, as he had thought of himself as an 'amateur'.

[Greg Bock]

Hi Robert
yes, the publishing of results professionally that follow from Stu's discovery in July last year of SN2011ei in NGC6925 is the biggest news for us on the BOSS team. Until the paper is accepted for publication, we cant say much, but we are all hoping that it goes through successfully.
We were named as co-authors for our contributions to the discovery process. Stu (in New Zealand), of course, did the actual discovery, and then there were followup steps to confirm it actually existed (me at Leyburn on the night of discovery and for another 4 nights), then analysis and reporting to CBAT (Peter at home), and follow up brightness measurements (Colin at home over several nights).
As a result of our efforts to alert the professionals, they used an armada of some of the largest instruments in the world to obtain highly accurate spectral records at multiple wavelengths to build up one of the most complete and detailed wide spectrum databases of a supernova almost from the very first day of explosion. So, of course, we are all excited to be a part of this journey.

For all of us on the BOSS team, its the cherry on top, and the reason why we love to do this.

And, yes Robert, you nailed the key thing here when you said 'collaboration'. This particular event was a great example of collaboration within the BOSS team as we all played a role for the discovery, and then further collaboration over a period of months with the professional community.

Needless to say that it is tremendously satisfying for all on the BOSS team.

[Suzy]

:scared2: how'd you do it!

:scared2: I just read your new thread posted today.

:scared2: how'd you do it!

I didn't realise all I had to do was ask.:shrug:
But I only asked yesterday :shrug:
Sure don't muck around :question:
I'm off to comment now on sn thread number....? aaargh I've lost count! :lol: