Who is protecting your night skies?

[gaa_ian]

Having clear dark skies is the greatest asset any Astronomer can have.
What has been done in your area to make the night sky better !
If we encourage & support councils who promote good outdoor lighting, we can only make things better for all of us.

[RAJAH235]

I tried with both our local councils, the RTA, Energy authority etc etc. Nobody takes any notice. TOO expensive to change all the luminaires along the roads, not their responsibilty. Car yards are one of the WORST offenders, but they just say that they are within council specs. Security lighting in general is #%$*&*(@#@%^!* atrocious. House lighting a joke. Where to stop?? NO ONE CARES!
Our club even invited REG WILSON to give a talk on the subject. He owns a lighting design company in Sydney and is a member of the IDA. Nothing came of this because NO ONE CARES! I'll just drive a bit further to get away from the light.
I've ranted for long enough. Sorry all.
Does anyone care? :poke:
Just the facts m'am.

[Kieken]

We have a couple of anti-lightpollution organisations here in Belgium but I don't know if they have any success. And I don't have a car (still <18) so driving to a really dark place is for the moment impossible. I think RAJAH235 is right, people just don't care.

[Starkler]

I think the best way to get results is to be able to demonstrate benefits other than darker skies for a fringe group of nerds with a weird hobby of looking at the sky at night.

Money talks.

[Jonathan]

I live about 6km directly south of the centre of Adelaide. I don't think they're about to turn their light of for me, although it would be nice not to have the constant glow in the northern sky.

Another thing that doesn't help is all the neighbours insist on having unshielded flood loghts lighting up their backyards at night while they're inside watching TV. Don't understand why. :confuse2:

Street lights round my way are not too bad though. They're old and don't put out much light and lots of them are below the height of street trees.

Most people don't give a rats about light pollution and never will.:mad2:

[janoskiss]

:welcome: Kieken! Easy Melbourne solution to light pollution is heaps of clouds to protect us from any starlight that might pollute our nice uniformly grey skies... ... THis is the worst summer ever :mad2: :( :mad2:

[RAJAH235]

There are pollution laws that do cover this. Under *Obtrusive Lighting*, but I've yet to hear or read of anyone being prosecuted for it!!! (I spelt it *prosecutied* the first time).Silly bugger!!
Ya gotta larf, ain't ya?
If your neighbour's lights are intruding onto your property and say, into your bedroom or backyard, you can TALK to them, suggest a shield or timer, ask them over to have a look thru your t'scope. If not responsive, ask cops or council to deal with it. (BAD MOVE,but).
Get in touch with Ken Peterson at SOLIS.
Sydney Outdoor Lighting Improvement Society, and Reg Wilson
Lighting Analysis Design
32 Carina Road
Turramurra, NSW 2074, Australia
Tel:/Fax: +61 (0)2 9488-7078
regrw()tpg D0T com D0T au
IDA-Link www.darksky.org/ww/au (directs you to this page & location)

[gaa_ian]

I can understand every ones sentiments .....
You are right, money talks, so does the image that big companies project to the outside world.
Demonstrating the Energy saving & reduced greenhouse emissions of good lighting design is a good start.
Have to agree, the backyard paraflood/security light is the curse of every backyard astronomer.
Is anyone on this forum involved with the Sydney "Dark Sky" organisation?

[Starkler]

Melbournes Bolte Bridge with powerful spotlights pointed straight up at the sky just to make the towers look pretty at night.


http://ozimages.com.au/Photos/1348/SP/M1348P172221_thumbnail.jpg

From 10km away.
http://www.asv.org.au/lpoll/bb19-6.jpg

Photo from ASV website http://www.asv.org.au/lpoll/bb.htm

[RAJAH235]

No, but see previous posts.
There is a lot of info. avail. in the states re; light pollution, where towns have turned things around, but it was a community effort and took them quite a while to do!
Parking lots, car yards, security, service stations etc, all got involved and really made a diff. to the sky glow. They also saved money on their elect.bills. Will try to find link/s.
Geoff, that pic of Bolte Bridge shows what we are up against. When the new bridge,(don't know name), was opened in Sydney a couple of years ago, the local Astros. complained about the light pollution and were told *that the lights would be turned off for a major astronomical event*, or words to that effect. :shrug:

[ving]

light pollution???
nothing a small rifle cant fix! :P

[vindictive666]

hi all

ive got the same problem at my place the people next door have those spots that come on at everything that moves
i dont talk to em so thats not an option :)

i went to the local shire to find out what they have.

theyve got a law for industrial light intrusions (i dont have that problem) but not for neigbours intrusions, however the last i heard the council was introducing a law or whatever they call it :) for backyard light intrusion (residential) if it gets passed they can iether accept it or not i expect the latter (not)

unless i can afford to raise the dividing fence by a meter or so :)

basically i got fobbed off at the shire with a lot off shoulder shrugging and i dont knows :)

[ving]

solis for sydney siders!
http://solis.org.au/

[gaa_ian]

Thanks for the link Ving :)

[rumples riot]

If your neighbours are unapproachable there is something that can be done, but it will cost you some money and should only be taken as a last resort.

Under common law, a neighbours obtrusive lighting can be viewed as a breach of your entitlement to quiet enjoyment (fundemental precept to freehold land ownership). You can seek an injunction to have the owners of the land refit the lights with shields that keep the light where it is meant to be (this you can do yourself at the magistrates court). Or you can seek an injunction for a breach of light and air under the old easement for light and air. It is most commonly used where people build monsterous houses next door to a single story dwelling. I don't know of any case that has been tried on this point, but it might be worth a try and will cost a lot of money.

That being said, I have found that if you contact the owner of the property and have a face to face conversation on your property and explain why you want the lights adjusted then this will usually suffice. Even if you offer to pay for the shields yourself and help them put it on. Then that will go toward the good will and most people are not going to refuse that. If all else fails try the second paragraph and use the injunction method. You'll never have to talk to your neighbour again and they won't call the fire brigade if your house is burning down and your not home.

[iceman]

:rofl: :lol2:

[gaa_ian]

A good first step is to invite the neighbours for a viewing .....
Then let then know how much better it would be if THAT light was not shining in you yard & as Paul said, offer to help.
A little good will usually goes a long way :)

[ving]

wouldnt that depend on your nieghbour... dont wanna invite someone over who is either a beer swilling geek bashing yob or someone who is renown for breaking into ppls places and steeling anything of worth to hock for drug money... :P

[gaa_ian]

Gee Ving, I'm glad I dont live in your neighbourhood :fight: :scared2:

[ving]

lol, most people keep to themselves anyhow :)

[RAJAH235]

Hi All, Found article in S&T Dec 2002, *How I Beat Light Pollution In My Home Town*. Tells of how he got the local council to create a zoning regulation, rather than an ordinance. Have attached 1 pic. to show the diff. that well designed, efficient and properly placed lighting can make.
Pic is of a Cinema Complex.

[RAJAH235]

And this is how he started it all. A post card!! (only 1/2 shown).
He had these printed up and distributed them to the locals and arranged talks/demos as well.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks, That is excellent Laurie.

I remember going back to Sydney for a visit about 4 years ago and in my opinion the worst upward spillage of light came from the Rail Yards, and no-one was working there. Thousands of floodlights covering hundreds of acres, hundreds of parked trains and not one worker in sight.

How do you hit large organisations like the railways? or as Geoff previously showed, Melbournes 'Bolte Bridge' upward pointing light display beams?

Got to be a way!


p.s. It would be funny if I started a petition against our 4 streetlights. The town would laugh at me.

[RAJAH235]

Hi Ken, How about we try the post cards? Know anyone in the printing game, that has a community spirit?? :poke: :help2:

[silvinator]

Me, pick me! I'm in printing!!! I can definitely print those postcards for everyone...but my comission is one nagler per postcard :P No seriously, I am able to print a bunch of postcards if you're all serious about this.

[RAJAH235]

Shall we wait for more comments/commitments from the members? They would have to contain the addresses of each local council, + maybe worded slightly differently to suit our situation/s.
If this gets going, we will have to call for volunteers to front their local council members, to see how they respond. As I said before, I had no response at all from either of my 2!
Maybe I'll send Reg W. and Ken P. an email to see how to proceed. Pity we haven't got an *AUSTRALIAN AMATEUR ASTRONOMICAL ASSOCIATION* to call on!!! or even a state one.
Regards, L.