Losmandy Star Lapse v Vixen Polarie

[roughy]

There has been a quite interesting thread lately on the Vixen Polarie.

I was wondering if anyone had knowledge of both systems.

The Polarie kit with tracker, tripod and carry bag is listed at $825.

The Star Lapse kit with drive, controller, camera mount and beam is listed at $835.

Clearly the Polarie is the smallest and would be suitable for overnight bushwalking. The Star Lapse system on the other hand appears to be upgradeable to a full equatorial mount which would make it a suitable grab and go observing setup for small tubes (eg 80mm refractors).

Both appear to have optional polar scopes but I wouldn't know what view of Octans these can achieve.

Does anyone have thier own views on each, or on one or the other?

Cheers

Mark

[gregbradley]

Weight capability is limited with the Vixen.

Greg.

[Poita]

The losmandy system is effectively the clunky old G8 with the wings pulled off it. Although the weight capacity of the Polarie is limited, I'd much prefer the Polarie or the Astrotrac.

Also, consider the Pentax O-GPS system. For less money than the Polarie or the Star-Lapse you can get a DSLR and tracking system and not have to carry extra gear.

The sensor in the camera moves instead of the mount moving, so you can place it on a standard tripod. It works a treat.

[dannat]

the good thing about the star lapse is you can make it into a g8 - so you have a travel mount & fully fledged one.

looking at it you could also make it into an alt/az mount

[JB80]

It really comes down to what sort of use you expect that you'd get out of both. As it's been mentioned the weight capacity and abilty to put bigger loads on is an advantage if that's what you plan to do.
Really the Polarie is strictly dslr based although there has been people using a Lunt 35 with a DMK with success and I'd wager it would similarly handle a PST and possibly small guide scopes for widefield.

Personally I feel the AT and Losmandy are better suited for comparison and the Polarie is more of a stand alone product for dslr's.

Pricewise I think the Polarie wins out again, the Starlapse would set me back 800 Euro minus the tripod.
The Pentax would require a new camera, itself costing lets say 470 Euro(less second hand) for a cheaper Kr plus another 240 euro for the astro tracer. This again is minus tripod and lenses/adaptors for the Pentax.
The Polarie cost just 429 euro, no tripod. And can be used with no polar scope if needed.
I'd honestly just buy the unit and source a different tripod to the kit one or you may already have an acceptable tripod.

Personally(and I am biased) I'd go for the Polarie it wins or is equal too in all departments apart from load capacity.

Sorry for talking Euros by the way, just it's what I paid so what I use for comparison.
:)

[Poita]

I just can't see the attraction of the starlapse, if I was going to lug that around I'd rather get an EQ5.
For me the attraction of the Pentax System, the Astrotrac or the Polarie is that you can carry everything you need in a small backpack, much the same as going on a photographic expedition.
Once it gets larger than that, I'd rather have a real mount.

The Pentax is a winner for me as it is the cheapest, you effectively get a DSLR for free, you only need a standard tripod and don't need to polar align.
The Astrotrac is great if you get the full system as it all packs inside the pier and you can throw it on your back and is beautifully engineered. The Polarie isn't for me, but I can see it's appeal, it is small and seems to work okay, I'm not sure how easy it is to get a good polar alignment though.

[JB80]

I guess for the South it all just depends on how good an Octans alignment actually is, the polar scope is set up with Octans markings for southern use other than that I'd say it's dead simple to get great alignment with it.
I haven't had the chance to try my polar scope out yet to compare but you can easy get 3 to 5 min exposures without it at 18mm.

[Peter Ward]

Can't see the attraction??

It doesn't need counterweights & all fit's snugly into a small padded camera bag, that will go into an airliner overhead locker...I know as I've already done it.....Try that with a EQ5!

It's also built like a brick dunny. I've used a Canon 5D and 500mm F4 with one and it purred along nicely. The Vixen would probably snap.

Flip it vertical and you have a multi-rate timelapse pan-head.

I intend on taking mine up to Port Douglas later this year ;)

[mithrandir]

Peter, do you use it with just the RA drive, or both RA and Dec? With both drives does it still fit in a "small padded camera bag"? I know on the ATS site you have a photo of it with a C6. Would an ST80 (with DVR rings) and DSLR be OK, or would a 500mm cat and DSLR suit better?

I'm taking the Prado to Trinity Beach and this would be a lot less to fit in and easier to handle than my CG5, let alone the G11.

[gregbradley]

The Pentax is a winner for me as it is the cheapest, you effectively get a DSLR for free, you only need a standard tripod and don't need to polar align.
The Astrotrac is great if you get the full system as it all packs inside the pier and you can throw it on your back and is beautifully engineered. The Polarie isn't for me, but I can see it's appeal, it is small and seems to work okay, I'm not sure how easy it is to get a good polar alignment though.[/QUOTE]


How well does that Pentax system work though? Some sample images here a while ago made it seem it was a bit hit or miss and not too accurate with elongated stars still. Was that user error? Perhaps if there are more examples of 5 minutes no trailing at 100mm that would be very convincing.

Greg.

[Poita]

If you want the DEC axis also though, the price nearly doubles and the whole thing gets bigger.
What is the PE like on it?

[Poita]

How well does that Pentax system work though? Some sample images here a while ago made it seem it was a bit hit or miss and not too accurate with elongated stars still. Was that user error? Perhaps if there are more examples of 5 minutes no trailing at 100mm that would be very convincing.

Greg.[/QUOTE]

I don't get any star trails at 3 mins with the 80mm on the front.

I haven't tried any longer exposures, I'll knock some out in the coming weeks though. I think the problems people have are user error, if you follow the video on how to calibrate it (it takes about 30 seconds) then it seems to lock every time for me.

[iceman]

Problem with the Pentax though is that you're stuck with a Pentax ;)

[erick]

:sadeyes: they are getting better, aren't they? I need a new DSLR in the next year or so. My Pentax history over decades and the in-camera tracking (with optional GPS unit) is suggesting I stay with this brand. (OK, needs to be in another thread.)

[Poita]

The Pentax uses the same sensor as the Nikon D7000.

For widefield work, they are more than capable and you can use Nikon, Canon or Pentax lenses. Best of all worlds really.

[iceman]

Yeh I just being a little tongue in cheek.

But for someone with an existing Canon or Nikon DSLR with existing lenses, I wouldn't go out and buy a Pentax just for that feature, when I can use the Polarie or something similar.

[Peter Ward]

While the option is available, adding a Dec module simply gets you back a into GEM configuration...and more weight. PE is around 8 arc sec..but you can apply PEC.

I've never bothered with PEC ...do you want to use a camera lens or C14 here?

I've played with the Astro-track: No option of DEC correction and being a sector drive, tracting time is limited. It's nice but flexes easily compated to the Starlapse.

[Peter Ward]

Just looked at the Vixen Specs... max payload of 4.4 pounds.

My Canon 5dIII/w battery grip and 85mm weighs 5.5 pounds...... the Vixen is clearly a light-weight solution.

[Poita]

Just pointing out that you can use your existing lenses for Astro work with an inexpensive adapter.

How are you finding the polar alignment for longer exposures with the Polarie, is it fussy?

[Poita]

That is kind of my point, the idea for me is to do widefield, and be ultra portable, so the Polarie would handle most setups I would throw at it. If I want longer focal lengths I'll use the scope.

I used an astrotrac with the wedge for a while and didn't get any flex, and I had the PST hanging off it. I guess it would depend on your tripod combo?

Or there is always a barn-door tracker :) We are spoilt for choice really.

[firstlight]

I suppose I might wade in on this thread. I got Anne-Louise a Starlapse this year after looking at what we wanted to get out of a setup. The AstroTrac was to be our first choice but as has been pointed out it is limited to 90 minutes if I recall. The Starlapse has the advantage of turning into a timelapse panning head, which was a key attraction for Anne-Louise. Weight was also a consideration and we decided only a few days before the transit to use the Starlapse with my WO 110 and Cano 50D. We were not well polar aligned, but I think that Anne-Louise only reset the viewing on the Sun 5 or 6 time over the 6 1/2 hours, and was pretty steady considering we had over 1000 kids and teachers tramping accros the basketball court where we were set up. At this stage I think it is great value for money. Can't wait until we can use it in anger :D.

For a portable and compact setup and transport, I think the AstroTrac has it over most of the competition, it is very clever, but again I get a bit disappointed to have to rewind every hour and a half.

[Poita]

On the Astrotrac I had, the tracking time was actually very close to 2 hours, then press one button and it rewound in just over a minute, so that wasn't really an issue for me, but I can see how it could be for some uses. Getting a full night's use out of a set of AA batteries is nice too.
The surprising thing for me was that it happily held my 4" scope and DSLR and tracked nicely.
There is an option for RA autoguiding now too.

[firstlight]

As I said it is a nice and clever unit, as well as good weight capacity, however I may be pendantic: if you wanted to do some animation of the images, after the 2 hour run, rewind recentre the target or jump to another scene. Not my cup of tea, really.

This shouldn't be a Holden v Ford thing though. We all know that EVERYTHING in this hobby is compromise and personal preference. The Starlapse won our vote due to the longer exposure times possible ie. longer tracking on the same object/area of sky, and the versitility of using it as a paning head. The AstroTrac is a very attractive product and 20+ 5 min subs widefield should yeild some nice imagery. I only wish we could afford both.

Can't really talk about the other devices that have been discussed here. No experience with them and from memory there was not the versitility or the cleverness of the other two.

[originaltrilogy]

But did you have to reset the starlapse 5 or 6 times for some reason on your exposure?
The astrotrac only needing two rewinds for transit, yes?

[firstlight]

Yes. We had never set up the Starlapse and aligned it, we adjusted the elevation pretty close and the azimuth was pretty as well, but it certainly wasn't right. In the configuration we had it in, and if we were polar aligned, there wouldn't be any need to adjust it at all, I expected to have to do EQ flip but it wasn't necessary.

Better planning, such as having the rig set up at least 1 or 2 nights before hand and drift aligning (although it does have a polar scope), I expect that we would have been able to image all day without a problem.

[JB80]

In my experience it's not very fussy at all.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=117167
This was a 3 minute and 5 second exposure at 28mm with an ISO of 1600. I haven't done any processing of the pic apart from a resize.

It was done without the polar scope, very easy to do a simple rough alignment.
Maybe more fussy though for those using Octans but from Mikes thread that I have just seen results were impressive too with rough alignment.

There is also a new Polar meter being released which is basically a more accurate compass and latitude finder for daylight use and when you can't visually see your alignment stars.
I have yet to see it tested but I imagine it'd produce similar results as using the sight hole as opposed to a polar scope.

http://www.vixenoptics.com/mounts/35511.html
http://www.vixenoptics.co.uk/PDFs/User%20Guides/Polar_Meter_User_Guide.pdf

[gregbradley]

Mike,

Pentax K5 is regarded as the worlds best APS sized DSLR per DPReviews.

So you might be surprised. I was when I read about that.

Pentax also make high end Medium format digital cameras that start at about $10K.

Greg.

[Bassnut]

Yeah, that would suck big time. Almost as much as a Nikon :lol: