Beginner, $500, What To Get?

[MILD]

I honestly apologise for yet another which scope for me thread. I did post a similar thread around a year ago but then get caught up with a few other things so I am back again!

I understand that dobs are the accepted choice for a first scope however with a budget of $500 I'm not exactly sure what would provide the best combination for a beginner.

I have looked on Bintel and taken a look at the 6" dob for around $330 and the 8" for close to $500. It seems the 8" does have better accesories. With $500 to spend would I be better off buying the 6" and picking up a few other things or given that the $170 wouldn't get me far am I better with the 8", learning my way around and then upgrading eye pieces, filters etc as appropriate later down the track?

To be honest, I'm primarily interested in looking at the moon and showing my sons (6 and 8) more than DSOs etc. Looking at other planets and general star gazing would be handy for a little later on but I have no goals towards astrophotography or anything like that.

Is there a better option than what I have described above for what I am hoping to do? I know $500 is a very small budget so I am well aware sacrifices and compromises will need to be made!

Thank you all in advance.

[sheeny]

If the choice was just of the two, I would go the 8". Aperture rules, generally. You can buy other little bits and pieces as you save up for them, but the scope will be with you for a while.;)

The other option I usually recommend to newbies is to buy a planispher and a good set of binoculars. Binoculars are a great way to start and no matter how long you stay in astronomy or how big your scopes;) get you will always use them.:thumbsup:


Yeah, yeah... we've all said that...:P An eight inch scope will make the moon look spectacular, and start making the brighter DSO's quite attractive - once you get hooked on DSOs though, aperture fever will set in. Don't fight it... you won't win;):P:).

Hmmm its up to you. For me the decision would be good binoculars or the 8" dob. The 8" dob has more WOW potential as long as you don't get discouraged by the learning curve (collimation etc).

Good luck!

Al.

[omegacrux]

Hey Mick
Can't go wrong with an 8in Dob
Great views easy to use
Better light gathering than a 6 , I noticed a big difference !
Dobs are good
David

[barx1963]

As Sheeny said "aperture rules" go the 8". Significantly better light grasp and the $170 odd price difference is not going to buy you much in the way of EPs.
The EPs that come with it will be OK, not great but the longer FL ones are acceptable. Try and come up with a little extra to get some collimation gear at least, although you really only need an old style film canister with a hole to get the basic collimation within acceptable limits for an 8".

Malcolm

[MILD]

Thanks gents.

I had heard online that the views of the moon through a dob was somewhat lackluster- I believe the reason cited was a lack of magnification.

Is this a legitimate concern?

[MILD]

Further to the above: what's the best cheap 8" dob? Any particular brands to be shy of?

[omegacrux]

Mick
Do not believe that !
They give wonderful views of the moon even with the supplied 25mm
Orion , Tucana look great with them, they are the best value scopes out there
I sold mine but I want another

David

[MILD]

Thanks David- I always appreciate a second opinion, especially online!

I think the 8" dob is going to be pretty much locked in. I'll be in Melbourne over the weekend so might try and get into Bintel for a look.

[bmitchell82]

lack luster views are because they are not collimated correctly. :) I'm not going to go on my normal rant but do factor in something at least that will get your mirrors semi lined up. refractors and SCT's are set from factory and are hard to put out of collimation once set hence why people who have no idea think they are far superior to newts (they are not).

So get yourself either a Cheshire sight tube or... (and i say this with great reluctance) a laser collimator (phew got that one out) be highly aware though... a laser will have to be adjusted and modified when you get it unless your spending in the 2-300 dollar range.

If you need more "zoom" Barlow lenses or power mates on your dob will zoom in till your hearts content and a whole lot further than a 3-4" telescope can ever dream of, but as you said that is for down the track if you and your son's get into it.

I have a 8 year old boy and its taken him a good 3 years to start wanting to spend a bit of time out with me so don't be disheartened and think they don't care boys just have an attention span of about 3 minutes to which cold, hot, bugs and skeetas will reduce that attention span dramatically!

BM

[MattT]

Hi Mick,

Ring Bintel first...I was there a couple of days ago and not a Dob in sight. In fact not a lot of anything in sight:confused2: Maybe they were dusting ? Look for what you want in telescopes for sale, in the classifieds here on IIS.
Cheers Matt

[Ric]

Hi Mick, when it comes to aperture I think the 8" is the perfect size to start with and will definitely give you more bang for your buck.

It will be something that will draw you back for more time and time again.

I quite happily stayed with my 8" SCT for 30 years before moving up to a 12"

Cheers

[dannat]

One advantage of the 6" is that the youngest will be ble to see thru the eyepiece without a step, an 8" can be a little high for some kids if you are looking up.
Often the worst ep you get is the smaller mm length, yet this is the one for planets so if you get the 6" you'll be able to get a good high powered eyepiece.

Problem for you is which size will suit, 9mm, 8mm etc, if ou can go along o the asaw (albury wodonga astro society) to test different focal lengths.

If bintel are out astronomyalive might have a 6" or 8" dobsonian

Lastly the kids will find it easier to move the 6" by themselves, the 8" is heftier..just some points to consider

[erick]

8" dob - the rest will come in due course.

[mbyrr]

For what it's worth, I just got an 8" dob from Bintel (last weekend), and after just one viewing I love it. I'd grab the collimator and 2012 almanac too. The guys at Bintel are awesome also, very helpful! :thumbsup:

[Varangian]

Yeah the kids will grow into an 8" Dob.

So what did you end up purchasing?

[MILD]

Nothing yet! Not because of a lack of advice which I certainly appreciate.

The 8" dob has been decided on (I'll grab one from Andrews because it seems to be the cheapest I can find) however it will be waiting a couple of months. My wife has decided she'll get it for me for my birthday. Sure it's a wait, but it gives me an opportunity to pick up some binoculars and learn the sky prior to jumping in with the dob.

I actually went shopping today for some binos but I will start another thread for that discussion.

[Varangian]

Great stuff, that will give you plenty of time to observe the sky.

You're a more patient man than I am:)

[MILD]

Believe me I'm not as patient as you'd think (hence the new search for the binos!).

I'm pretty hard to buy for because I usually just buy what I want and be done with it but this agreement works in a lot of ways. Plus it forces me to spend a bit of time getting my head around a few different things prior to breaking out the scope.

[brian nordstrom]

:) an 8 inch Dob , planesphere , 40mm GSO ( or equilivant ) 2 inch eyepiece , Andrews 10x50 binos and Stellarium thats free to down load , no questions asked . This set up would last you for years . :thumbsup:, Mild .
Brian.

[2stroke]

If $500 was my max i would go a used 10", telescopes don't out date like computers lol, well apart from mirror damage over time. Lol you always end up with a few dings in newts and this helps shave some price off used, even though there going to function the same. Your also got to think about moving it about, a bigger scope may turn you off star gazing, i sure as hell hate packing the 10" in the car though for around the home it rulez.
GSO offers the best bang for buck scopes, i find skywatcher a little better with construction and there mirrors use pyrex glass which cool quicker then the bk7 glass. Though really for viewing on a dob with a fan added there not really alot of difference. Stay away from Bushnell and other cheaper brands, theres really only GSO and skywatcher and then there oem's aka bintel (GSO re-badged and saxon skywatcher re-badged). There are a few other brands Orion and celestron as well meade and even a lot more, though these scopes usually come at a higher cost and there are not many Australian dealers. The rule of thumb is that you pay for what you get in nearly all cases, apart from being raped by the australian re-sellers lol.
Anyhow you can't go wrong with a newt, they just can't be beaten for bang for buck. There's a few issues like coma and collimation, but these can be dealt with, don't buy a cheap laser collimator as it will rob you of to much joy.
Also thanks to notebooks these days put some settings circles on that dob, grab your self a copy of stellarium (100% free) here http://www.stellarium.org/ and your got a self power goto scope, even son powered haha.

[MILD]

Thanks for the advice but I think the 8inch is all but locked in.

I need to call Andrews tomorrow to try and sort out a replacement for my binos which seem to have been damaged in the post. I am hoping they can sort something out.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: 8 inches of joy , Mild ,
I / we look forward to a few photos when she arrives ? any chance of that ? .
Enjoy the new scope my friend .:hi: .
Brian.

[MILD]

I will be sure to grab photos when it arrives. I'm not sure how exciting they'll be given the type of equipment most of you are using!

[Poita]

Either that or buy my Celestron C8 SCT ;)

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Yes , thats a really good idea , for a few 100 dollars more a great scope , I would if I could , but would get devorced if I tried to sneak anolther scope home ,,,:rofl: .

[Poita]

Mine is less than $500, so is actually a few dollars less!

I need to sneak some scopes out for the same reasons you just stated :)

[MILD]

Well it looks like Poita has twisted my arm ;)

Where is the best place on this forum to ask if anyone will be travelling from Sydney through Albury and possibly able to do a pick up / drop off for me?

Is a carton still the going rate for this kind of thing?

[Varangian]

Very good scopes IMO with excellent lunar views.

The best priced are the new GSOs from Andrews Communications in Sydney. They are on par in quality with the Saxon and Sky Watcher 8" Dobs and about $80 cheaper. Not sure about postage though, that may tip the scales. Why don't you keep your eye on the classifieds and snap a bargain from someone looking to upgrade or check out eBay regularly.

[hollowcore]

With that money, best would be looking in the Classifieds for Used (what ever) in great condition.

[mprenzler]

Hi Jay, I'm also thinking of getting a dob. I'm interested in finding out more about the 'settings circles'. Can you point me in the direction of more information?

Thanks,

Michael

[Max Vondel]

Yes go for the 8" dob
But avoid Andrews!
An 8 or 10" will show up on the forums sooner or later
(some 10" listed at the moment)
A reasonable set of EP's should be your second priority
Clear Skies and enjoy!
;)

[mprenzler]

Hi Peter, what's the problem with Andrews? They certainly seem to have the best pricing...

M.

[Honest_Gaza]

Bought my 10" DOB from Andrews last month (over the counter)....nothing wrong with them in my opinion.

There were no instructions with the Telescope but a quick phone call resulted in a PDF via E-Mail :thumbsup:

[niko]

there's a 12" dob for sale at the moment for $600 - bargain

[GraemeT]

I haven't had any problems with Andrews, quite the opposite! Good product, good prices, good service, good backup.

[GraemeT]

BTW, I think an 8" is about as big as you can comfortably manhandle without feeling that it's too much bother to get out and set up. It will fit in the back seat of your car if you want to find darker sites than a suburban backyard, and doesn't take up too much space in the garage.
Sure, 10" and 12" will grab more light, but 8" will keep you busy for the next 20 years.

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: Ive got lots of gear from Andrews over the years and have had no problems , quite the opposite actually . why do you say that people should avoid them ? Have you had a bad experience with them ? Hows about explaning yourself if so ? Please explain Max .
What you say is very general and local suppliers dont need this kind of bad press. :mad2: .They are doing it tough like the rest of us .
Brian.

[barx1963]

Yeah, I am a bit surprised by the "avoid Andrews" comment. I have only bought 1 thing of them but it was a large purchase and I was happy with the product and service. And before purchase they were happy to answer a couple of questions I had.
Remember we need some specialist stores for our hobby. If they go down we will have to get everything from OS or camera stores with subsequent warranty issues and no advice for beginners.

My 2c worth

Malcolm

[2stroke]

A cheap simple way is to mark around the dob base, then around your other axis for up and down in 360 degrees. You can also use a digital inclinometer for your alt axis. Thanks to the value of π aka pie you can work out the circumference of the base circumference = 3.14159 x the diameter then get that value and divide by 360 using a tape measure place a mark at each value.
Anyhow google up "dob setting circles" you will find a wealth of info and guides. Best part is you can grab http://www.stellarium.org/ which is free and finding targets becomes easy :)
If you want tracking for imaging or to make life better for viewing at high magnification the best thing to do is make a eq platform. This is the cheapest kit form or closest to kit form i have found http://pw1.netcom.com/~tlsystem/cablet4.htm (http://pw1.netcom.com/%7Etlsystem/cablet4.htm) . Then theres the pure diy and by googling Equatorial Platform you will find a stack of free guides and even e-books to help you build one.
With these 2 things your not missing out on much over a eq mount apart from long exposure imaging :)

setting cirlce links
http://www.homebuiltastronomy.com/ManualDobSettingCircles.htm
http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/155715-diy-dobsonian-setting-circles/

eq platform kit
http://pw1.netcom.com/~tlsystem/cablet4.htm

[Forgey]

I got my 10" dob from andrews and various eyepieces/adapters and have had no problems. I've found there service very professional and fast next day delivery.

[mprenzler]

Thanks for the links Jay :thumbsup: