southern hemisphere equivalent messier list

[yagon]

I'd like to have a list of bright objects that can be seen from the southern hemisphere with a relatively small aperture scope. 100 or so objects would be ideal.

Does such a lsit exist?

[JohnG]

Hi Yagon

Probably the most well know of the southern catalogs is "The Jack Bennett Catalog" or google Jack Bennett Catalog.

http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/similar/bennett.html

JohnG

.

[Greg Bryant]

Hi,

There are several informal lists around. The following two are respectively binocular and telescope lists:

http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/sskybino/ssbinoc2.html
http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/southsky/sskylist.htm

NSW amateur Glen Cozens has compiled the following list which has a mixture of Southern and Northern Hemisphere objects, some of which admittedly won't be visible from our latitude.

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/messier/xtra/similar/cozens.html

In their book, "Hartung's Astronomical Objects for Southern Telescopes", David Malin and David Frew listed a "southern extension to the Messier Catalogue". A great book to have as a reference.

Enjoy!

Regards,

[Miaplacidus]

I'll second Greg's recommendation of Hartung. This is the best book for southern observers, bar none (IMHO). It has everything from hundreds of double stars, to the big, bright DSOs, to dozens of objects in the Magellanic Clouds, and open clusters, globulars and galaxies galore. Over 1100, I think, arranged by RA. And the introductory chapters contain fantastically useful information that is also interestingly presented. It's the only astro book I know of that you can read in bed.

[JohnG]

Got to admit that my most used book is Hartung's.

JohnG

[johnno]

Thanks for the links GREG,
As a Keen Binocular observer,They are Very Handy.

Best Regards.
John

[Miaplacidus]

There's also something called Lacaille's list, and the Dunlop 100 too. (I don't know of any links, but I've got them on Excel spread sheets somewhere.) There is a large amount of overlap with these and other lists, though.

[OneOfOne]

I agree that Hartung's is a good place to start. In fact, I liked it so much, I have just finished transferring the information (NGC, Constellation, RA, Dec, Mag etc) contained in the book and table into a spreadsheet. I started just after Christmas, but with the weather so far, I have had a fair bit of timeon my hands. After some final tidying up, I have put a copy onto my iPaq. That way I can refer to the sheet outside to pick something to look at and GoTo it. The problem with a GoTo is you have a huge list of things to look at, but it is difficult to determine if you will actually see anything. I have also added a sheet that contains the "gems" for showing visitors.

As I get my magazines each month, I also add objects to the list and update the spreadsheet in the iPaq.

[rmcpb]

Another vote for Hartungs here, my copy is so dog eared that it looks like I use it for a door mat!!

[NewMoon]

Is there a list, book, website, etc that also has pictures of some of the objects?
I have never attempted anything to do with deep objects so a list that might have an entry such as 'spiral galaxy edge on' still doesn't give me enough info to know which one I might want to attempt to photograph in order to see it.

[Miaplacidus]

Well, there's TUMOL (Google it), which is in Filemaker. I'm not sure if there is some equivalent for non-Messier objects (apart from the one that I made myself: about 220 objects < Dec +40).

[xstream]

Hartung's NewMoon, The Southern Astronomers Bible.

[glenc]

Here is a VERY late addition to this thread.

Lacaille's catalogue can be found at:
http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/history/lacaille.html

The Dunlop 100 can be found at:
http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/similar/dunlop100.html

The original Dunlop catalogue is at:
http://www.ngcic.org/Historical_Record/default.htm

The NGC catalogue with the name of the person who discovered each object is at:
http://www.ngcic.org/public_HCNGC/HCNGC.htm

For both the NGC & IC catalogues try.
http://www.ngcic.org/steinicke/default.htm

For images of all NGC objects try:
http://www.ngcic.org/dss/dss_ngc.asp

I use a catalogue of 300 M NGC & IC objects .
100 Clusters
100 Nebulae
100 Galaxies

Let me know if you want a copy.

[mickoking]

Hartung :thumbsup: or the briefer Bennets catologue :thumbsup:

[Astroman]

I just added the Hartung catalogue to my Skymap program, WOW look at all those objects, should keep me entertained for well beyond my expiry date.

[ausastronomer]

Use a mix and match of everything quoted so far and you have enough to keep you going for a long long time. I also like Hartung, followed by Burnham.

CS-John B

[jjjnettie]

The July issue of "Astronomy" magazine has a 6 page article entitled "A Southern-sky Messier Catalog". It has the complete Bennet catalog listed along with some pictures. Great reading and just down your alley!
I bought my issue only the other day, so it should still be on the shelves of most LARGE newsagents.

You can probably borrow Hartungs from your local library. You may have to order it in.

[glenc]

Another source for the Bennett Catalogue is:
http://www.astrosurf.com/antilhue/Bennett.htm
There are some great images there.

The Bennett Catalogue was made during his searches for comets.
There are 152 objects in it: 24 open clusters, 69 globular clusters, only 4 nebulae, 9 planetary nebulae and 46 galaxies. Bright open clusters were not included as they are not comet like. The most northerly object is M77 (dec 0) and the catalogue includes 27 Messier objects.

Hartung is a large catalogue.
There are 574 deep-sky objects in it including 111 open clusters, 120 globular clusters, 57 nebulae, 109 planetary nebulae and 169 galaxies. (96 of these are Messier objects). It also contains 6 dark nebulae, over 500 double stars and 25 variables.

[Nordo]

I'd love a copy, if that's OK:D

I'm also new at astronomer, and would like to know what people's favourite DSOs are. I'll start a new thread.
I'll put it in Observational Astronomy.

[glenc]

I had a look at 6 southern lists to see which objects were the most popular. http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/similar/similar.html

1. Lacaille's "Catalog of Nebulae of the Southern Sky" 1751-2
2. James Dunlop's Catalog of southern Deep Sky Objects. 1826
3. The Jack Bennett Catalog of Southern Deep-Sky Objects
4. John Caldwell's Best Sky Objects from SAAO Latitude. (South Africa)
5. 110 Deep-Sky High Lights
6. Hartung (2nd ed) southern extension to the Messier Catalogue, p416.

I did not include Messier objects from the catalogues.
The 35 NGC objects below were in 4 or more of the above 6 lists.

NGCs 55 104 253 300 362 1291 1316 1851 2070 2477
2516 2547 2808 3114 3201 3242 3293 3372 3532 3766
4755 4833 4945 5128 5139 6025 6231 6388 6397 6541
6744 6752 7009 7293 7793

[glenc]

I just added two more catalogues to the previous post.
There are now 8 southern lists in my survey to find the most popular objects.

1. Lacaille's "Catalog of Nebulae of the Southern Sky" 1751-2
2. James Dunlop's Catalog of southern Deep Sky Objects. 1826
3. The Jack Bennett Catalog of Southern Deep-Sky Objects
4. John Caldwell's Best Sky Objects from SAAO Latitude. (South Africa)
5. 110 Deep-Sky High Lights
the above 5 lists are at
http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/similar/similar.html
6. Hartung's Astronomical Objects for Southern Telescopes:
A Handbook for Amateur Observers (2nd ed)
A southern extension to the Messier Catalogue, page 416.
7. The AAQs BRIGHT SOUTHERN DEEP SKY OBJECTS
http://www.aaq.org.au/deepsky_AAQ.htm
8. Astronomical League Southern Sky Telescopic Club
http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/southsky/sskylist.htm

The following 56 objects were in 4 or more of the above 8 lists.

NGCs
55 104 253 288 300 362 1097 1291 1313 1316
1365 1553 1566 1763 1851 2070 2477 2516 2547 2808
3114 3115 3132 3201 3242 3293 3372 3532 3621 3766
3918 4755 4833 4945 5128 5139 5189 5281 5286 5927
5986 6025 6067 6231 6362 6388 6397 6441 6541 6723
6744 6752 7009 7293 7793 and IC 2602

[glenc]

I recently read about the death of Robert Burnham Jnr :(
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/1997-09-25/feature.html
Maybe some of you missed hearing this too. His 3 volumes are great.

Here is part of the report.

The old man who sold paintings of cats in Balboa Park entered San Diego's Mercy Hospital on March 9, 1993.
He was dying of congestive heart failure, the result of a heart attack that he'd suffered weeks earlier.
Although he was only 62, his years in the park had prematurely aged him. He wore a beard, and his skin was tanned by his exposure to the sun. He was thin.
He suffered from several ailments. A blood clot in his heart. Gangrene in one foot. Pneumonia in his lungs. For days he lingered, but doctors decided not to take the risk of operating on him.
At 6:03 p.m. on March 20, the man's heart stopped beating.
Days later his body was sent to a military cemetery for cremation after a check on his social security number revealed that he had served in the Air Force. A marble headstone bearing his name was placed on a wall among the names of other cremated veterans at Point Loma's Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery.
No one noticed that the name on the headstone was misspelled, the result of a clerical error on the man's death certificate.
No one at the hospital or at the cemetery knew the man, and no family members attended the placement of his cenotaph.
He was just a weather-beaten, penniless man who sold paintings of cats in Balboa Park who had grown old and died.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/tpls/_Common/Art/hr.gif
Years before he was a destitute painter, Robert Burnham Jr. had inscribed the universe. Writer, astronomer, finder of comets and asteroids and collector of ancient artifacts, Burnham was a singular Arizonan.
He was a scientist whose work at Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff helped advance the understanding of the sun's neighborhood in space.
He was an author whose name has become so familiar to some readers it has become a sort of shorthand, like Audubon to birders, Hoyle to card players, Webster to poor spellers, Robert to parliamentarians.
More than 30 years after its first publication, Burnham's Celestial Handbook: An Observer's Guide to the Universe Beyond the Solar System remains a sort of real-life hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, a compendium with something to say about nearly every cosmic destination worth visiting.

[ausastronomer]

Can a moderator please make this thread a sticky ?

CS-John B

[mickoking]

I own the 3 volumes of Burnhams celestrial handbook and It is a great book. Not only does it have a very comprehensive listing of DSO's but it can be read like a good novel. The book is getting a bit dated now but it is still a delight to read and my copy is very well used.

The death of Robert Burnham jnr was the tragic end of a troubled life. But in my humble opinion him and his book rank amongst the giants of astronomy.

[johnno]

Thanks for the story Glen,
Although Very Sad,it is well worth a read.

John B,is right,it should be made a Sticky.

A person,who has achieved so much in life,goes virtually unnoticed in death.

What a great loss,at least his achievements were remembered.

Regards.
John

[glenc]

Hartung's book

Astronomical Objects for Southern Telescopes:
A Handbook for Amateur Observers (2nd edition)
revised by David Frew and David Malin

has a list at the back called
A southern extension to the Messier Catalogue, page 416,417.
It is an excellent list and it is attached.

[mickoking]

Thanks for the attachment Glen, I've got an old edition of Hartungs with out that list.

[DobDobDob]

I read on a UK astronomy website that they had certificates for observing a certain number of Messier objects, both for binoculars and telescopes. I was wondering if there is any similar scheme in place here, and if not whether or not its worth considering?

[glenc]

I think it is a good idea and "A southern extension to the Messier Catalogue" in the back of Hartung would make a good list.

[DobDobDob]

Apparently the way it works is you record the name/number, the date you observed it, a description of what you saw and perhaps a sketch, then after you reach the required number, you send in your details to the 'Keeper of Records', an honorary title for some volunteer that can maintain an Excel spreadsheet. The names are then placed on a web page where the observers can be proud of their achievement. At this point, the observer can then download a certificate that is pre-signed by a VIP either the club president or forum owner and print it on their own printer, mount it and hang it on their wall of honour.

I guess it's up to one of the moderators to pick up on this and then discuss it with other forum organizers and see if it really has merit and then workout a set of rules and implement them.

On the site I originally saw, there were two levels (2 certificates), beginners and advanced, I think the first level was 50 messier objects, and advanced was more. The total number of course is relevant to your hemisphere, in our case the Southern.

If this were implemented, I would definitely attempt the beginners level, seeing I only have binoculars at this stage, each level might have to be further broken down into Binocular and Telescope classes.

I know the moderators read everything, so I guess its over to them :thumbsup:

[RB]

I'll pass this on to the rest of the Mod/Admin guys.

Just a reminder that you can always post any suggestions for the site in the Feedback forum. (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

:thumbsup:

[Popeye]

Before moving to Tassie I lived in Perth and belonged to the Astronomical Society of Western Australia (ASWA.) ASWA's Council started up a quest for Messier objects. In fact at an Astrocamp in Dryandra I had to introduce it.
One of the rules was that 'goto's etc were out! But the Society had produced a floppy of all the Messier objects with all of their information. It included a lot of the Northern Hemisphere stuff so anyone in the northern latitudes could get to log them.
Lots of information was required of the observer and I had started the task but left WA long before I logged many of the objects.
I probably still have the very informative floppy here but I think it would be better if one of the moderators approached ASWA to see if it could be used in this forum. After all it is ASWA's intellectual property.
What do you think?
Cheers!
Popeye.

[DobDobDob]

I think Messier chasing is an awesome way to learn the sky especially as a beginner. Anything that makes it easier to learn them gets my vote :thumbsup:

[glenc]

The following list could be used for a certificate.
Are there any suggestions on procedures for awarding a certificate?
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=18551
See post 10 & 22.

[Popeye]

I refer back to the ASWA system. On the floppy that came with the challenge is the ability to print out the list along with the appropriate columns for observing times, seeing conditions, comments on how the object looked etc. The list was based on needing nothing more than a scope with 100mm aperture. Of course there are a lot of binocular objects too. ASWA has a system of certificates for different levels (ie number of objects logged,) I would highly recommend it.
I have to agree that Messier chasing is an excellent way of getting to know one's way around the sky - by star-hopping!
But as I have said, it is ASWA's intellectual property and that Society would need to give the OK to go ahead with it.
Why re-invent the wheel?
Cheers!
Bert

[glenc]

Maybe we could record something like location, aperture, magnification, date, time, brightness (vB, B, M, F, vF), size (vL, L, M, S, vS) and comments on things like moonlight and light pollution for each object.

[DobDobDob]

It would be good if Mike could get his designers onto making a set of certificates that he could issue when the different assignments have been met and confirmed.

At the end of the day its a bit of fun, but an IIS certificate to print out, signed by Mike and placed on your wall could be a good thing. I for one would certainly take the challenge and try to locate every one of the objects on the assignment.

There could be a range of graduated certificates/assignments, say 25 objects (Bronze), 50 objects (Silver), More that 75 objects (Gold), or whatever other system would be acceptable.

Plus on a page on the IIS website, all those who met the requirement and received the awards could be kept on a perpetual register, to show off to their grandkids :P

[Popeye]

The ASWA programme has print-out sheets that list (in order,) Messier No., Const, Mag, Type, RA, Dec, and then input from the observer, ie: Date/Time, telescope, seeing, trans, 'notes on my observations.' There is also a separate list of Messier objects by constellation, giving the observer the opportunity to plan the night's viewing.
If one of the moderator's would like to give me the go-ahead, and the ISS members agree, I can ask my contacts in ASWA if we could put their system to our members for approval to use. Of course it would need someone to monitor all of this, and the concept of issuing a certificate for the number of objects viewed is a great motivator to get folk to learn about the night sky.
(I have just noted that I have found 27 on the list.)
Cheers!
Popeye

[DobDobDob]

I'm sure at least one moderator is reading this, because if you muck up they jump on you like a ton of bricks, appearing from behind bushes, dressed in ninja suits....don't worry one of them will reply soon enough :whistle:

[glenc]

I have added a log sheet to the list and "map" of 95 DSO.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=207902#post207902

[iceman]

Not a bad idea, guys.. There's already an IIS Observing Log Template, but not a list of objects as a "challenge" type thing.

An online entry form would be good a idea, with a page showing who's filled it out, where they're up to etc.

Leave it with me and I'll add it to the "to do" list..

[DobDobDob]

Thanks Mike, that will be great if you can do that (we all know time is the biggest problem), we just don't ever seem to have enough of it :P

Glenc .... I downloaded your file and saw it was over 4 pages, I did a simple modification of changing the text size from 11 to 10 and decreased the top and bottom borders down to 1 cm and it fits nicely on 3 pages.

Not sure if it will print out without giving an outside margins print message but just click ok to that anyway and it still prints.

[glenc]

Thanks Mike and Ron.

[brian nordstrom]

what happened to ice in space.s add your astro society address? cant let you folks . . any way it still raining here.dam..

[iceman]

Brian, not sure what you mean?

[stephenb]

Does anyone know where I can find only Hartung's object list on a spreadsheet somewhere? I'm only interested in a compiled list from his book.

[glenc]

Stephen, the attached zip spreadsheet lists the NGC and IC objects in Hartung's first edition.
The headings are:
ID, M: NGC, IC and Messier numbers
TYPE and Sub Type
CON: constellation
Vmag, Bmag, Surf Bright: visual and blue magnitudes and surface brightness
Size1, Size2: max and min size
PA: position angle
RA h, min, sec: right ascension
decl, d, m, s: declinaton
Month at 10pm

[glenc]

See: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=46375
This gives images of Messier and non-Messier objects and an All Sky Messier Catalog.

[stephenb]

ta, Glen. Thanks what I was looking for also. My good copy of Hurtung's is starting to show a little wear from being put through the photocopier.

[brian nordstrom]

:)Sorry Mike I sorted it , but its gonna rain again to night .

[brian nordstrom]

;) Brian , prez of the northern OZ cloud appreciation , society . :welcome:,.Shell we bring this meeting to order .. cylonne watch a 5-20% chance of a cyclone ,
Clouds , meeting ajurned . we'll se what tomorrow brings ...
:lol:.
Brian.

[brian nordstrom]

:) it was raining , lots , we got nearly 500mm in 1 day , horrizontal rain.
the dry is on its way .
Brian.

[brian nordstrom]

:confused2:

[glenc]

This is the southern equivalent to the Messier Catalogue.
"In Southern Gems, Stephen James O'Meara makes a detour beneath the southern skies, presenting a fresh list of 120 deep-sky objects for southern hemisphere stargazers to observe. Showcasing many exceptional objects catalogued by the pioneering observer James Dunlop, known as the 'Messier of the southern skies', all are visible through small-to moderate-sized telescopes or binoculars under dark skies."
http://www.cambridge.org/us/knowledge/isbn/item6684161/Deep-Sky-Companions:-Southern-Gems/?site_locale=en_US

[seedy]

Kindle edition - looks very good
Chris

[Rodstar]

What about Bambo's 600?

Ausastronomer - you owe it to us to post this!!

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Where can I buy a copy of Hartung's book?

[glenc]

See http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45971&highlight=hartung+list
post 3 has a list of Hartung's Objects

[glenc]

see https://booko.com.au/9780521554916/Hartung-s-Astronomical-Objects-for-Southern-Telescopes-A-Handbook-for-Amateur-Observers

and https://booko.com.au/9780521318877/Astronomical-Objects-for-Southern-Telescopes

[glenc]

Attached is a list of the 524 NGC and IC objects in

Hartung's Astronomical Objects for Southern Telescopes: A Handbook for Amateur Observers
Frew, David J., Malin, David (https://booko.com.au/products/search?q=Frew%2C+David+J.%2C+Malin% 2C+David) Hardback, published October 1995, by Cambridge University Press

Courtesy of Paul Kemp

[Mountain_Wanderer]

you people are legends

[Mountain_Wanderer]

I just came across Rob Horvat's (WSAAG) "Night sky objects for southern observers". Link here: https://sites.google.com/site/southernastronomer/

Looks impressive. Is this pretty decent? Especially for beginners?

[glenc]

Robert Horvat's lists look good
https://sites.google.com/site/southernastronomer/Home/observing-targets-for-each-month

[ausastronomer]

Hi Rod,

My 600 target Southern Skies Observing list (BAM 600) is already loaded on the Ice in Space website under "Projects and Articles-Astronomy and Observing" (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-638-0-0-1-0.html). It can be downloaded from there in Excel format and sorted in whatever order you like. Most people sort it by "Best Month to Observe", which basically sorts the targets by RA. Well over 1/2 the list can be achieved with a small aperture telescope <6". An 8" telescope will get almost 90% of the targets and under excellent skies, with a skilled observer, you can just about get them all in a 10" to 12" telescope.

The list can also be downloaded in file formats ready for upload to Argo Navis and Sky Tools.

There is also a sticky thread which has been running for a few years on the list (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45678)

Cheers,
John B

[raymo]

Hartung's is out of print, and fetching big bucks used in good condition.
raymo

[JA]

^^^SPAM Reported

[nickpullen]

Hi, Just ordered HARTUNG's : $56.10 posted.:thumbsup::rofl:

https://www.mup.com.au/items/119129

Cheers.

[raymo]

Hi Nick, It was great news when the new print run was announced. The old
version was a high quality hard cover book; to reproduce it in that form
would be expensive, but the new version does mean that everyone can obtain the valuable information at a reasonable price.
cheers raymo

[Merlin66]

An under rated book of interest to all observers is "Observing handbook and catalogue of Deep-sky objects" by Luginbuhl and Skiff
This contains 2000+ objects down to -50 dec.
2230 Galaxies
351 Open Clusters
90 Globular Clusters
152 Double stars

Well worth reading.

[DeepSkyBagger]

The Webb Society (international but based in the UK) produced a series of Deep-Sky Observers' Handbooks over several years, from 1975 to 1990. Volume 7, published in 1987 is 'The Southern Sky', written by Steven J. Hynes. It was originally published by Enslow (ISBN 0-89489-134-6). If you're lucky you may be able to get a second-hand copy. It would make a fine addition to any southern hemisphere observer's bookshelves.

[Merlin66]

+1 for the Webb Society series.
I have the full set. Ideal source of information and suitable objects for visual observers.
Recommended.