First astro shots with the new D800E!

[Adelastro1]

Well I managed to try out the new D800E and new lenses tonight while down in Bordertown for Mothers Day. There was a lot of cloud around so I only got 45mins of imaging, but at least it was a dark sky!

Although I knew I would be, I am super impressed with this camera for astro... and my new lenses too! The image quality is amazing compared to other cameras I've used - very low noise with ISO 1600 and 3200 and coupled with this, amazing detail (particularly seen on heavy crops - see below). At ISO 1600 I barely notice any noise at all. Hot pixels are almost non-existent. My D7000 really doesn't compare to this camera in those areas. Wow. This is the image quality I've been looking for.

Also, the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 is amazing with this camera, as is the Samyang 35mm f1.4. Both allow much shorter exposure times or lower ISO than the f4 lens I've been using. After reading the reviews of the Samyang lenses it really hasn't let me down even at this early stage - sharp images with little or no coma.

The images below are just done from jpegs and processed in Photoshop (tone, brightness and contrast - that's all). I took them in RAW too and will process later. I also did a few 10-shot series that I will stack later too. so these are virtually straight out of the camera and compressed.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182493998/in/photostream/lightbox/
My very first astro shot with the D800E! I like how the bit of cloud gave a diffuse effect to the stars - really accentuates the bright ones. Nikon 14-24mm at 14mm, ISO 1600, 30sec, f2.8.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182539894/in/photostream/lightbox/
Pointers, Crux and Eta Carina region. Samyang 35mm, ISO 1600, 10sec, f1.8. I'm amazed how well the red nebulosity of Eta Carina nebula came out. See the crop of this image below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182647068/in/photostream/lightbox/
Crop of the image above of Crux and Eta Carina as an example showing how much detail there is and low noise with the D800E images.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182564696/in/photostream
Centre of the galaxy around Scorpio. Samyang 35mm, ISO 1600, 10sec, f1.4.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182586884/in/photostream/lightbox/
The region around Scorpio. Antares can be seen just left of centre. amazing detail and picture quality even at ISO 3200. Samyang 35mm, ISO 3200, 10sec, f1.4.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7182650594/in/photostream/lightbox/
Crop of the image above of part of the Milky Way as an example showing how much detail there is and low noise with the D800E images.


I will post some day time bird shots soon too that I took with a 500mm lens. Again impressive.

Bed time and look forward to getting a few more shots before heading back to the city! Let me know what you think of these.

Wayne

[Deeno]

Wow!
Impressive Wayne. The D800 looks to be a significant step forward in DSLR development...

You must be satisfied with the Samyang lens. Just looked them up.
They seem to offer remarkable performance for the price.....!

Damn, I think I'm drooling on the keyboard.......

[Rigel003]

Spectacular photos Wayne, especially for such short exposures and minimal processing. It sounds like a very impressive camera.

[TrevorW]

Some really nice shots there how many exposures of each stacked

[colinmlegg]

Very impressive Wayne. Any chance you can post a couple of raw files @ 1600 and 3200? I'd love to pixel peep the Samyang @ f/1.4 image as well.

Thanks.

[Adelastro1]

Thanks. Sure. Might have to wait until I get back to the city as I'm just using my personal hotspot on the iphone and a few 40Mb file uploads might take me over the limit! And where's the best place to deposit them? I need to sign up to a decent photo dumping site. :) Will be interested in seeing your results.

[Adelastro1]

Thanks Trevor. None are stacked yet, and that's the beauty of this camera - the images are impressive without it. I took a few series of 10 shots to stack when I get home to the city so I'll post them soon.

[Adelastro1]

You sound like me drooling the day before I picked up the camera! Sounds like the 5DIII is comparable ISO wise too.
Yes Samyang seem to get good reports AND for only 500 bucks it's well worth a try. I will be interested to see how Mike goes with his 14mm Samyang.




Thanks Graeme. Yes at this early stage it looks to be amazing!

[madbadgalaxyman]

Excellent results, with good quality.

I think that astro-imagers of the past, as they struggled to keep the shutter open and to track and to acquire signal, for very long integration times, in order just to get a "so-so" image, if they had somehow got their hands on the latest DSLR technology (perhaps because it fell through a time-warp), would think that this technology was "magic".
(any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, at least till we get used to its capabilities)

Maybe everybody is going to get a DSLR after seeing these results.....it's instant astrophotography, with good quality.

[colinmlegg]

Cheers mate. I normally use https://www.yousendit.com/ for transferring larger files. The free service is capped at 100Mb. I upload the files, put my own email as the recipient, then share the link from the email. The link last about 2 weeks.

[alpal]

Nice pics - you must be very happy with that?
It's not cheap at $3300 but it is a full frame.:)

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D800E-FX-Format-Digital-Camera/dp/B005OL2ID2




Would you be able to post a dark frame of say 10 minutes at ISO 1600?

[Omaroo]

Golly... you know, I'm surprised. With all the new technology the D800 is still giving purple flares around bright stars. This is an old D90/50 Nikon trait that has continued on, and my old D40 delivered them too. Please, please say that you simply haven't mastered the WB yet and they really have fixed this. I gave up on Nikon (and all 13 of my Nikkors) and went Canon for this very reason. I love my (plethora) of Nikons, but they just don't get to sit behind my scopes any more.

[Adelastro1]

I'm ecstatic with the camera! Wait until you see the images I took last night!
You won't be aboe to buy it for $3300 though - that's a US price with no Aus taxes. Here they are $3999 full price, but I got mine a bit cheaper and so did someone else (as loyal camera shop regulars!). The D800 is a few hundred cheaper of course too.

I'll try to post a dark frame for you soon.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Adelastro1]

Yes I did notice that too. I don't think I've mastered WB at all - it was just on auto for these images. Do you know why they produce the purple flares? I guess it can be toned down a bit in CS5 to a degree.

[Omaroo]

It certainly wasn't meant as a dig Wayne, just an on-going question of mine. Nearly all astrophotographs I've seen come out of Nikon DSLR's suffer the same purple flare problem. I was hoping that it may have been addressed by now with the D800/E, but it looks like it hasn't. Yes, you can tone down the purple, but that means that you also remove valid information from objects just as M8 and M42 which have plenty of red/blue hues unless you zone process.

The Canons just don't produce anything other than white stars - or if coloured, the appropriate colour. The flare just doesn't happen as far as I've seen. It'd be interesting to head over to CN as see if it's being discussed there.

[Octane]

I don't think white balance would be the culprit.

It's either CA from the lenses (perhaps shot wide open) or the sensor.

I'd hazard a guess as to the sensor as the same colours that have always been present in hydrogen alpha captured by Nikon/Sony/Pentax cameras are also exhibited here.

H

[Omaroo]

Yes, I think you're right Humayun. I've shot my Nikon DSLRs with all combinations of lenses and apertures and still seen the purple every time. It's probably a function of either the sensors themselves or firmware.

[Adelastro1]

I know you weren't having a dig! I didn't take it that way at all. It's just a quirk of Nikon's by the sound. And by what you and Octane have said it sounds like the sensor is causing it. Would be intersting to find out why.

[alexch]

I'd guess it is a combination of a lens, f/stop and the microlenses in front of the digital sensels. These microlenses are designed to collect the light falling onto the sensels at steeper angles and, in doing so more efficiently, they also introduce more chromatic aberrations.

If you stop the lens down then the light falls more perpendicularly to the imaging plane and the problem should disappear.

Some lenses, especially ultra-wides from the film era, are worse than others and produce steeper cones of light. I would not conclude that it is the sensor fault because have not seen any purple fringing when using Nikon or Sony with my reasonably fast f/3.6 reflector. More pronounced fringing with Nikon or Sony when compared to Canon could be because the microlenses on Nikons are more efficient in collecting that steep light cone or that the microlenses themselves introduce some CA.

Just my thoughts.

Alex

[Adelastro1]

Great, thanks for your thoughts Alex. All seems very plausible to me. The images I posted were all from my new Samyang at either f1.4 or f1.8. I think I took a couple at f2 as well so I'll do more of a comparison tonight. I also did a shoot with various lenses in better conditions last night so will post those as well to see if it still shows up.
With the better quality ISO on these new cameras (inc. 5DIII) it's much more possible to stop lenses down and still obtain great low light images now. For every criteria that I look at, these cameras have such great direct and flow-on improvements, such as this example.

[Omaroo]

This effect still occurred when I was operating at f/10 and higher on a tightly-collimated SCT - forgetting about lenses altogether.

[gregbradley]

I don't recall having a purple ring aspect to my D70 years ago. Before or after I modified it.

I saw a slight amount of magenta stars in a few of my recent night shots but then I see similar or worse using my Pentax 67 lenses with my monochrome Proline 16803.

I take that as a bit of CA. I don't see how the sensor causes purple fringing. There is no evidence of purple fringing in day shots.

The 800E in particular shows up CA in lenses that in the past were considered top notch. Its the "downside" of such powerful resolution.

It corrects quite easily using Photoshop selective colour adjusting the magenta and cyan sliders. I could even record an action to suit so I could run it on any shot I did with the camera.

If you look at Waynes images the 14-24 does not show much fringing at all (its the better of the lenses) and the Samyang shows more. I don't how this lens rates but it would appear to have more CA.

I could do a comparo as I have 40D and modded 20D as well with a Novoflex adapter so I could use the same lens.
It may take a little bit to do one but seeing as there is interest I'll make the time to do one.


Greg.

[colinmlegg]

Just to add my 2 cents worth.

You also get purple fringing in the brighter stars with Canon 5D2 + certain lens and aperture combos. It's pretty evident with the Canon 24 1.4 II and 85 1.2 below f/2.8, less so but still there at f/2.8. With the Nikon 14-24 + adaptor @ f/2.8 it's pretty much gone.

I normally fix it by reducing the 'purple' saturation in ACR.

[alexch]

I think you are right, I have seen images with Samyang 35mm on Canon body (5DMKII) and it is full of chromatic aberrations at wide apertures as well. A good test would be to put the Samyang on your D800 and test at apertures from 1.4 to 8 doubling the ISO as you close the aperture by one stop.

[alexch]

I don't notice much of the CA with 14-24 at f/2.8 either. That would be great if you could run tests with Samyang 35mm and Nikkor 14-24 on Canon bodies and then on Nikon D800E in DX mode (to make the playing field level). It would highlightr any differences in Canon vs Nikon sensor/microlenses and show if modded 20D is more prone to violet fringing than normal non-modded body.

Cheers,
Alex

[alexch]

Chris,

Even perfectly corrected SCTs have spehochromatism induced by the corrector plate ( http://www.telescope-optics.net/SCT.htm ) and whilst I have no experience with imaging through an SCT, it could be that the UV/IR cutoff filter (hotmirror) is more agressive in certain wavelengths with some camera bodies and it "masks" the problem.


Cheers,
Alex

[Omaroo]

Alex, I guess that my point is this. The same imaging train, whatever the case (same Nikkor lens on both Nikon and Canon body) or the SCT - the Nikons I have always produce the purple flare - in every situation. The Canons do not (350D, 450D, 40D and 5D-II). I'm not saying that the Canon doesn't produce chromatic aberrations, of course they do, but not NEARLY to the same extent as all of my Nikon bodies. :shrug:

[alpal]

Wayne,



Thanks - I look forward to seeing a dark frame & how
many hot pixels & the noise you get.

[alexch]

Chris,

I don't doubt it and it could be due to the difference in UV/IR cutoff wavelengths or CA induced by microlenses or something else. 36MP of D800 will show that defect more when viewed at 100%,

I had zero purple flares when D700 was used with f/3.6 reflector, no matter how strongly overexposed the bright stars were. Then again D700 is not every Nikon and we would never know for sure what is going on inside Nikon RAW files, because they are "pre-cooked" by Nikon and not purely RAW unlike Canon.

Cheers,
Alex

[Adelastro1]

I've uploaded some images below that show that the purple flaring I have in my images is due to the lens. Luckily I had done some trials of different f-stops with the Samyang 35mm last night on the same part of the sky! Four crops at f1.4, f1.8, f2 and f2.8 are shown below via the links. The only problem is that they are not necessarily the same exposures - I hadn't planned on doing this test! - but it still shows the flaring problem. It's most evident at f1.4 and f1.8 but not so evident at f2.8 (even though I managed to move the camera slightly that elongated the stars!).

Crops from images of the Nikon 14-24 at 14mm and the Nikon 80-200 at both 80mm and 200mm below don't show any purple flaring. There is slight blue flaring in both these lenses however when used wide open at f2.8.

Let me know your thoughts.

Wayne



http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195812338/in/photostream/lightbox/
Samyang 35mm f1.4 ISO 3200 15sec

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195818628/in/photostream/lightbox/
Samyang 35mm f1.8 ISO 3200 10sec

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195814612/in/photostream/lightbox/
Samyang 35mm f2 ISO 3200 15sec

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195816496/in/photostream/lightbox/
Samyang 35mm f2.8 ISO 1600 15sec


http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195859600/in/photostream/lightbox/
Nikon 14-24 at 14mm f2.8 ISO 6400 20sec

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195861242/in/photostream/lightbox/
Nikon 80-200 at 80mm AFS f2.8 ISO Hi1.0?? 5sec (ISO not recorded in EXIF!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29005492@N07/7195863772/in/photostream/lightbox/
Nikon 80-200 at 200mm AFS f2.8 ISO Hi1.0?? 5sec (ISO not recorded in EXIF!)

[alexch]

Thanks for those, Wayne - very similar with my experience:
14-24 and 70-200 wide open at f/2.8 - no purple, some minor blue CA with both D700 and D3s. Looking at Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 lens stopped down to f/5.6 - not much fringing even in the very corner of the frame (30sec, f/5.6, 4350K WB, D3s, 100% crop attached, no lens corrections applied to the RAW file).

I think fringing depends more on the Camera/Lens/f stop or Camera/Telescope system as a whole; and variables such as the lens correction, light cone angle, UV/IR cutoff filter characteristics and microlenses are determining the outcome.

[Adelastro1]

I've uploaded a 10min exposure for you, but I stuffed up - I did it at ISO 3200! Let me know if you want one at 1600.

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1508421051/e24f3c4b84b589cb69fed74802857548?ci d=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104

[alexch]

Would you have a NEF file as well?

[Adelastro1]

Thanks for your example that backs up mine Alex. It looks like a characteristic of the Samyang 35mm. And as you said probably due to a range of things in the system.

[Adelastro1]

I certainly do but I didn't think non-D800 users could open them as each new camera RAW files are different and people need the latest versions of software, unless they have an updated Photoshop now. Let me know if that's incorrect!

[alexch]

ACR 7.1 for Photoshop (out now, http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cameraraw7-1/ ) supports D800 and D4

[Octane]

Excellent -- that clears that up, then!

H

[Adelastro1]

Colin,
Here's the first RAW file at 3200 for you to peruse. Let me know what you find!

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1508468557/d5769100d0c300ffeeb58ac6d7eaa0f0?ci d=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104

[alpal]

I downloaded & checked it in photoshop & it looks too noisy.
Maybe try an ISO1600 version?

[alexch]

Whilst you are at it, Wayne, you may want to try ISO 1250, because as people say, above that D800 starts to apply digital gain.

[Adelastro1]

No problem then! Here's the RAW 10min dark at 3200.

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1508498547/c0084be494b5b3e95c347d0b0171baa6?ci d=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104

[Adelastro1]

It's hard keeping up with you guys! Phew!
Here's a 10min RAW dark at 1250 for you to play with.

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1508584001/730b8539a428cec4f6e3fe80d31ea1f9?ci d=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104

[colinmlegg]

Thanks!

[gregbradley]

One thing to keep in mind about Nikon and purple fringing is that Nikon uses several chip makers in their cameras. Some models sport a chip from Aptiva. Some from Sony. I believe there is a 3rd company as well. The D800 has a Sony Exmor sensor.

Nikon has input, how much is unknown although Nikon also make lithography gear for silicone chips and sensors so they must have a deep knowledge base.

Greg.

[alpal]

I downlaoded it but I can't read .NEF files even in Photoshop CS5.

[Adelastro1]

Yes that's beacause it's a new camera and Nikon make the files different for each model! See Alex's comment below regarding ACR which should help.

[alpal]

Yes I see:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cameraraw7-1/

Thanks but - I won't bother loading new software just to check one pic.

[jchiang]

Hi Wayne and others,

I've also recently started experimenting taking long exposures with my D800E. In the darker areas I've noticed lots of hot pixels. Is this a common problem with the D800E?

Thanks,
Joe
You can respond to my email junkforjg@gmail.com

[gregbradley]

Hi Joe,

Noise in dark areas in long exposures at high ISO is a problem with almost any digital camera. Some are better than others but most these days are pretty good. The kings of long exposure are the Canon 6D, the Sony A7s (probably the best), the Nikon D4s, the Nikon DF. The Canon 5D3, IDX, Nikon D610, D800, D800e, Sony A7, Sony A7r, Fuji XT1 are all low noise high ISO machines. But they will all have some hot pixels in dark areas to a greater or lesser degree.

These days the manufacturers do a lot of in camera noise reduction and there are several levels of noise reduction cooked into the firmware that may not be entirely controllable by the user but generally noise reduction is best done in post processing not in camera where it can damage stars, give a plastic look etc.

I had a D800e for a few years and now have a Sony A7r which is basically the same sensor (Sony Exmor 36.4mp full frame).

Basically noise performance is about as good as it gets from any sensor or close to it. All these full frame sensors tend to need noise reduction in the processing. If you image on a warm night it will be noisier.

I would use long exposure noise reduction set to on as the D800e has a small amount of amp glow (purple tinge in the lower parts of the image), the Sony does not so its something to do with the Nikon circuitry.

30 seconds ISO6400 long exposure noise reduction on, F2.8, 14mm or so, RAW, white balance to about 4200K, vivid is a good formula for this camera.

For the Sony or Fuji cameras auto white balance works better (they seem to have a superior white balance engine to Nikon). The noise pattern in the D800e is a bit nicer than the Sony (a bit wormy).

I have taken 1 hour exposures with a D800e and they were stunning.

Greg.