Pony Club 19th May

[Carlz]

Just wondering if anyone who wasn't going to Bretti interested in a Pony Club meet in 19th May? Is a key needed or is it still accessible through the side gate?

[Rodstar]

I am interested in coming along Carly, weather-willing.

[Deeno]

I'm in....

[Rhino1980]

Hey guys, long time no speak. Just dropping in to let you know I'm not dead or lost at sea :-) Had a lot on this year, new job, new home and our first baby due in August. Looking forward to dusting the big girl off and catching up with you all for some stogies and port once everything settles down!
Warm regards
Ryan

[Arthur Alchin]

Good to hear from u Ryan. Actually only thinking of you yestrtday and wondering what u were up to. Seems like you just answered my questions. I havent been to the pc for a while with work commitments and getting over an injurt but back in the sadle now and raring to go

Will be in Bretti next week with sone of the boys for the new moon. You still got that hot falcon or whatever? Take care. :)

[vic4loc]

I'm interested, however currently have some pending renovation work, also I'm weighing up whether to go to Pony or Bretti, will confirm closer to the date.

Victor.

[Zincberg]

I will have preverbial "bells" on.

[bones]

Weather permitting I'll try and be there. I have to admit it's been a while since I've seen everyone. Bones.

[Rhino1980]

Hey mate glad to hear you are going ok after your injury. I am working in the mines now which is quiet demanding of my time but well worth it. So glad to be away from the corrupt cesspit rail industry! We still have the falcon but I rarely drive it. My wife's driving it a few minutes each day to work and back which keeps the Kay's low as well as the fuel bill while I potter to work in her little oil burner. The falcon will go away into storage next year and we will lease something more practical for ferrying kids around in. 600hp just isn't necessary for going shopping in lol. I am really looking forward to being a dad an taking my kids to get togethers like we have to teach them that there is something else far more grand and important in scope than ourselves. Take care and I hope to catch up soon.

[sally1jack]

Hope to be there, if this weather is kind it should be good
phil

[Irish stargazer]

Interested if the weather is ok and a key holder is present:astron::

[Irish stargazer]

Weather is looking better for Friday on 7 Timer

[sasup]

I am thinking about it, its been ages since the 12" has been out and yes I mean my scope!!!

[gb_astro]

Hmmmm, Saturday looking fairly cloudy untill after midnight.

Greg.

[Deeno]

Looks like the weather could do just about anything....least there is no rain predicted.

Wait and see....I guess

[Irish stargazer]

Go / No Go ??

[Zincberg]

It looks patchy at best, but who knows. I happy to say its still worth the trip.. Ill check back at about 4 and make a decision then.

[sasup]

ounce again the weather keeps my scope indoors..

[gb_astro]

Think I will pass on this one.
Now looking like cloud most of the night.
Hope it's wrong but a bit of a gamble from Sydney for me.

Greg.

[Zincberg]

yeah, thats a no from me too.
High tide is on the way up though, so Im going fishing instead :)

[GTB_an_Owl]

the owl is roosting to-nite
no flying anywhere to-nite


geoff

[Irish stargazer]

The Owl has spoken. It's a no-go for me too in that case. Should have gone to Wiruna :sadeyes:

[Rodstar]

I was planning to go (as was sally1jack, whom I spoke to earlier today). It seems, however, that the neys have it. I am surprised. The skies are looking OK over the central coast at the moment. I don't have a key, so it will be difficult now....

[Rodstar]

If there is a keyholder out there who is interested in coming....please let me know!!!

[Irish stargazer]

Likewise. I'll wait until 5.30 and call it a day after that.

[Rodstar]

Hey, good to hear John!

The sky is 100% clear here at Point Clare. Very still. All the hallmarks of being an absolute cracker of a night.

Finger crossed.....

[Irish stargazer]

Any keyholders coming ......??

[Rodstar]

In the absence of any response from keyholders, I am officially declaring it off. I have spoken with sally1jack to confirm he is also not coming either.

John - a real shame. It would have been a good night. Hopefully next month.

[Irish stargazer]

Thats a pity Rod. Oh well, I can open that nice bottle of Shiraz now over a nice seafood dinner

[hector]

Im at the gate and no one is here, looks like a good night. you guys miss out

[bones]

Have a good night out there Andrew. Hope the skies stay clear for you..
I've had a big day and absolutely feeling smashed. Sorry all I'll have to give tonight a miss and have an early one.
Tony.

[Rick Petrie]

Just got home from a wedding tonight and couldn't believe so many people didn't go to the PC as the sky here at the moment looks great.:shrug: Did anybody get any viewing in tonight? I wish I could have attended tonight but unfortunately I couldn't escape early enough to go.:(
Will be away now for 6 weeks on holidays :P but might try and be back for the July night. Cheers all.

[Deeno]

Amanda went out and I stayed home 'parenting'. Looked pretty good out there last night......

Have a safe trip Rick

[ausastronomer]

Good morning all,

A small group of us started this Central Coast observing group off almost 8 years ago. We had a close knit regular group which was:

Mike Salway (Iceman)
Rod Berry (Rodstar)
Louis Atalisidis (Atalas)
Andrew Murrell (Hector)
Gary Kopff (Gary)
Andrew (Froggy)
Wayne (Trufflehunter)
John Bambury (Ausastronomer)
Andrew Catsaitis (Rocket Boy)

On occasions we would be joined by
Ed Roca and George Livanos (Orion)
Mark Suchting (Satchmo)
Joe (cant remember his handle)
Daniel Beringer from Frontier Optics also joined us a few times.

We observed at the Paintball Place at Kulnurra at least once a month and usually twice a month. We were given Carte Blanche access to the bottom field by the owner Brian. WE DID NOT NEED A KEY. There were no gates on the access drive to the bottom field, so we just drove in. We could use it any night of the week if we wished, although generally we would only go on a Saturday night and sometimes on a Friday. We just had to phone and tell them someone was coming out to observe. The site was excellent considering it was less than 15 minutes from the Somersby exit on the Freeway. The skies were pretty dark (400 times darker than PC), there were no surrounding lights and there was a nice ring of trees to keep out any stray light from Gosford and passing cars.

A few newcomers joined the group and for whatever reason decided the Pony Club would be a better site. How they figured that is beyond me, because to be honest IMO it has zero going for it. Annoying lights in several directions, very ordinary skies due to its closer proximity to Gosford and the surrounding housing, and sometimes horseshyt all over the place. More importantly, you need a key to get in and only selected people have one. It has a warm cosy shed, but to be honest if you're not serious about observing and just want the comforts of home, it would be easier to wheel your scope out of the garage and invite your friends around to your house for astronomy, beer and coffee. They will see almost as much as you can at the PC.

What I find to be ironic is that Andrew Murrell is one the most skilled visual observers on the planet. He has had published a number of magazine articles, over many years. Notably on the Magellanic Clouds and Wolf-Rayet Stars. He has made significant contributions to several notable well read Astronomy books including The Caldwell Objects by Steve O'Meara, The Night Sky Observers' Guide by Keppell and Sanner and several others. He has also made significant contributions to several star Atlases. Most notably he discovered a planetary nebula in Norma, which is now named after him (Murrell 1).

Andrew turns up to observe and can't get in, so he turns around and drives home again. Rod Berry and Phil Townsend were also going to go out there, but decided not to, as they knew at the last minute no one was going to be there to open the gate. How cool is it when 2 of the original Central Coast group (one of them probably the best observer in the Southern Hemisphere) can't get in to the site to observe.

I can only say what started off almost 8 years ago as a really good thing, has gone notably down hill.

I think a few more keys need to be handed out or a few people at least need to be prepared to get off their butts and go and open the gate.

Dummy Spit now turned off again.

Cheers,
John B

[Deeno]

I remember the Paintball Place and it also was everything you claim except, we lost it due to change of ownership....
Most regulars were away that weekend, and if you are a regular (no one in the above list) you would know there is a 'back door' way in....

Feel free to find an alternative site....a few regulars have tried and its not as easy as you might assume........

[ausastronomer]

Deeno,

The ownership of the Paintball Place changed long after the group changed venues. Had we continued to go there and not "jump ship" and leave a sour taste in Brian's mouth I am sure he would have organised access for us with the new owners and the group would still be using Paintball and it's a way better site for observing than PC.

We had a group of regulars who no longer go as often as they used to because the PC site is pretty ordinary from an observing point of view and outside the social interaction thing offers very little to a serious observer. The social interaction thing is great but you don't need to go out there for that. We could all meet at Terrigal Pub and do the same thing. I no longer go there because I moved to Kiama, but to be honest 2 out of 4 new moons Gary K, Andrew M, Rod B and I went to Bucketty anyway, because the skies were infinitely better than PC. I have no need to leave my house to observe these days as I have Mag 6 skies in my backyard at Kiama.

Those you term "regulars" Deeno came along late in the piece for mine and a couple of years after a few us, (Mike, Rod, Gary K, Andrew M and myself) originally put this thing on the Central Coast together and got it off the ground.

Cheers,
John B

[Rodstar]

While I plan to stay well away from getting embroiled in this general debate, I must take exception to the above statement.

The inference is that if you were part of the "in crowd" you would have the secret knowledge about a back door way in to the Pony Club. Apparently there is an A list, and a B list. Even though I have attended the PC dozens of times over a number of years, I am, it would seem, on the B list. This is a bit hard to swallow, given that I started up the central coast observing group, with Mike Salway, Froggy and Wayne (Trufflehunter) in early 2005, and when I attend the PC, I usually forsake my own observing interests to share my scope with newbies and others keen to take in the views through a larger aperture telescope, including the A listers.

In the discussion each month about the impending New Moon night at the PC, there is always discussion to ensure a keyholder will be coming so we can get in. No one from the "in crowd" has ever indicated that it was not necessary to use a key to access the site - and have in so doing allowed a misunderstanding to be perpetuated. Because of this exclusive behaviour, three keen people missed out on the opportunity to observe last weekend while the A list drank in the clear dark skies of Bretti. Thanks guys! Such behaviour undermines trust, and ultimately destroys the sense of community which I, and many others, have worked so hard over the years to build.

[ausastronomer]

Actually Rod our first observing session was April 2005 because we started to organise this straight after the 2005 South Pacific Star Party, which was held in March that year. That was where I first met you and Mike and you guys first met Gary and Andrew; and we got the show on the road from there.

Cheers,
John B

[Rodstar]

Hey John, it is good stretching our memories with these things!

Actually, Mike Salway and I first observed together when I bought my LX200 in January 2005. We then met with Froggy at a function in Woy Woy a week or two later. From this, I arranged a group observing session near a watertank in Somersby (I recall Trufflehunter was there) - Froggy was horrified by the amount of light pollution, and invited us to observe next time where he was living and working (the Paint Ball site). That's where we therefore went the next time (possibly April 2005, as SPSP was in March that year I think). I recall John you joining us around that time, and as you recall, perhaps there was 8 or 10 of us who were regulars in those early days.

I remember HOughy joining us on one of the early nights in 2005 at the Paint Ball site with his 12 inch LX200 classic.

I remember Scott Mitchell was another regular face in those days, he was a real character - a shame he had to return to the US. And yes Joe was a regular with Anushka (apologies for spelling) - her home baked cookies were first class!

I used to spend my time in those early days scratching my head as to why the views through my $5000 LX200 were so much inferior to Mike Salway's $800 10 inch dob. It took me a while to accept the superiority of the views through a dob vis-a-vis a Schmidt Cassegrain.

RB used to bring one of his refractors in those days. Amazing views - we used to split doubles and take in fantastic views of the planets.

I also recall with a great deal of fondness my first night at the Paint Ball in 2007 with the Mary Rose. From those dark skies, the views of the Homunculus were simply stupendous!

[Irish stargazer]

It's a one hour drive to the PC from Sydney so I won't travel unless there is a key holder present. PC is more convenient than say Crago. It would be nice if there was a site that was open more often, such as on Fridays or on day with a partial moon which would set early. I have done less observing in Sydney than in Ireland from a semi dark site due to the limitations of access and the usual dodgy Saturday night weather. My previous club in Melbourne MPAS had an excellent semi dark site which was available most days.
Anyone have a farm they are not using:D

[Rodstar]

Have been checking out historical threads on the forum. I found this one from March 2005 which suggests we try a spot in Somersby:

www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1371&highlight=Somersby

This is the thread reporting on how it went:

www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1481&highlight=Kulnura

This was the trip to the water tank which Froggy found inferior to his home spot at the Paint Ball site at Kulnura. I note there is reference in the thread to "next Saturday", which may well have been our first visit to Paint Ball.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Rod,

It brings back memories. I didnt realise you and Froggy and Wayne had one observing session up on us prior to 2005 SPSP. I forget Scott Mitchell who I rate as one of the all time nice guys who has moved back to the USA. Scott and Louie used to drive up from Sydney every month and were great company. Louis used to bring his Takahashi FS102 and Andrew (RB) used to bring the cigars, port, tim tams and whatever Tak he was playing with at the time.

We had a great thing going. We had people who were learning and people who knew. The people who were learning were very happy to listen and learn from the people who knew. The people who knew were very happy to teach the people who were learning. I remember discussing your 10" LX200 (POS) = Piece of shyt, countless times and telling you where to head with your telescope purchase in the future. Fortunately you listened and now have a cracker.

How downhill it has gone over the years.

I have to say I find leaving you and Andrew Murrell out in the dark last weekend a very piss poor effort.

Cheers,
John B

[iceman]

I don't know why people are getting upset over this.

There's no 'ownership' over a central coast observing group. That was the whole point of getting it going - we didn't want to start a 'club' or 'society' - it was just a group of friends getting together to observe.

There's no pecking order, whether you're a regular or a so-called 'blow in', everyone is welcome as far as I'm concerned. I myself haven't been there for quite some time but know that I'll always be welcome and I always recommend newbies head along.

It's very disappointing to see your comments John - it's certainly not very welcoming to newcomers. Noone is calling the shots and in fact you haven't been a regular at the PC for a very long time so it's ill-informed to even make those comments.

What difference does it make what telescope or astronomy knowledge someone has? When Rod and I first started in 2004/2005, I had almost zero knowledge. It didn't stop us from doing something we loved and I certainly wouldn't want your nasty comments from stopping other newcomers from joining a local observing group who go to enjoy each others company and observe together, regardless of their 'status' or so-called observing knowledge.

I also don't think it's fair to make some of the statements you have about in crowd. How many times have you had observing sessions further out at Kulnura or Mogo with your own 'in crowd'?

From my memory, we started going to the PC because froggy left the paintball place, and it got a bit too 'difficult' or 'uncomfortable' having to ask the owners to observe there, and with the changed car park and growing pine trees, our space was getting limited. Alternatively, we had (for a very long time) easy access to the pony club even though we needed a key.

Sure the PC isn't the most ideal place to observe all the time, but it's free, heaps of space, easy to get to and convenient. And sometimes that overrides the perfect dark skies, especially for beginners.

Everyone has their own purpose and what they're trying to get out of it. You didn't come to the PC because it didn't suit your purpose. That's fine for you.
It doesn't make it right to criticise others the way you have, just because their goals don't fit with yours.

[ausastronomer]

Mike,

It was very dissappointing for Andrew Murrell to be standing at the gate unable to get in and observe. What newcomers need Mike is to be able to observe with people like Andrew and learn from him and not have him standing at the gate like a stung plover.

As you well know Mike I do an enormous amount to assist newcomers, school children and social groups and have done for many years. As does Andrew.



Rod made those comments not me Mike. However I can tell you the sole reason we went further afield is because the Pony Club site was poor as an observing venue and by then we had burnt our bridges at Paintball Place.



Froggy left and several people thought we might have to move on. That was not the case. I spoke at length with the Paintball Place owner Brian and he was happy to let us continue using the Paintball Place after Froggy left. In fact I took several school and scout groups out to Paintball after Froggy had left and the group had migrated to the Pony Club. At the same time a couple of the then newcomers wanted a venue that had a warm cosy shed and one of them had access to the Pony Club, so they suggested the group move to PC. Several people went, not realising it wasnt much of an observing site until they got there and it got dark (well nearly dark). Once the group had moved, the die was cast and PC became the permanent venue, despite my protests.

I find it very dissappointing Mike that the really good thing several people started off over 7 years ago has degenerated to the fiasco that occured 2 Saturdays ago where 2 of the original Central Coast group members couldn't get in to observe and most importantly didnt know until the last minute they wouldn't be able to get in. There is a back door entry to PC? It would have been nice for that information to have been shared.

Cheers,
John B

[Rhino1980]

Wow. I haven't been for ages, life hasn't permitted it. Certainly don't remember anything like what has gone on in the last couple of pages. Thank god for the likes of Geoffro, the two Allans, Deeno, Arthur, Jakob, Rick and the rest who always made a 'blow in' feel welcome. Catch up with you all soon...

[Inmykombi]

I thought I'df throw in my 2 bobs worth.

I take offence to being called part of the " in crowd " or an " A list "

I am merely a part of some regulars who choose to ebserve at the PC with anyone who wants to enjoy a night under the stars.
Including newcomers as I once was.
It may not be the best of places, but its better than my backyard or Terrigal Pub as was mentioned.

And as I chose to go to Bretti for an observing session, I cant see how that I, and a few who do the same can have a finger pointed toward us and be called part of an "A" list.

A few of us go away for a camping / leisure observing weekend and are labelled this way.
I just cant understand it.
All are welcome at Bretti or anywhere else for that matter.

I have made many good friends at the PC, and may not have the Knowledge that some others do, but I am there for a common interest in the night sky, which is a passion I have had since I was a young boy.

Please everyone, lets all work together to enjoy our hooby / pastime / passion.

If anyone can find a better place than the PC as I have tried to do myself on occasion, please find one and stop whining about the PC.

[Shano592]

Personally, I love the PC. It is a darker site than my back yard, which lets me see more. That is all I want. Sydney's lights are a hindrance sometimes, but by no means are they a dealbreaker.

I have been to the PC on more than several occasions, but less than a whole lot of people. I wouldn't count myself as A-List, or even B-List for that matter.

Personally, I don't particularly care. I will talk to whomever wants to talk. If someone wants their space, then I am happy to leave hem to it also, with absolutely no hard feelings.

I think that most people who attend the PC are in pretty much the same mold. There is no superiority, no aggravation, no segregation and certainly no pigeon-holing of people.

I have also arrived to a locked gate and empty paddock. An hour's trip each way. Still, the drive is a nice one. Getting uptight about it won't change a thing. It's unfortunate, but hardly deliberate.

New folks have always been and are still encouraged to look through as many scopes as they can lock their eyes to. Personally, I think that this is one of the finest things about the PC gatherings. No pretence, and whole-hearted welcoming.

If that culture never changes, then surely it is a good thing.


EDIT: I had the opportunity to go to Bretti, as did everyone who can read. I chose instead to go to China.

[Deeno]

I think the last few posts sum up the Pony Club quite elegantly.

As you can plainly see from Rods post the situation regarding the last observing night.

No cloak and dagger conspiracy here!
Try reading the posts...



Now how do I go about getting a key so I can infiltrate the super secret inner sanctum......

[iceman]

Fiasco?

Hardly a fiasco. As others have said, an unfortunate circumstance but hardly a fiasco.

You haven't been there for years. Andrew hasn't been there for a very long time either. Neither have I.

I know if I was planning to go, I would either:
a) Make sure to let it be known I was going
b) Make sure a keyholder was going
c) Get my own key

Of course it would be disappointing to be at the front gate and not be able to get in, but it's hardly a conspiracy theory. I'd make sure I knew the back entry or got a key for next time.

Andrew is a big boy and if he has a deeper issue with it I'm sure he can bring it up. He doesn't need you coming on to defend him and insult the regulars with your disparaging remarks when you haven't been there for years. You weren't even just insulting the venue - you were insulting the people that go there every month, who you don't know, most of them you haven't met, and have never observed with.
It was just plain out of line.

Whatever the reason for changing to the PC, it matters not. Regulars are regulars because they go every month. It doesn't matter who they are or what their skill level is. I'm at least pleased to see you edited that part out of your insulting post.

Anyone is welcome to try and find an alternative venue. All venues have their pros and cons. Just because you don't like to observe at the PC does not mean others don't, and your remarks are just plain insulting and not warranted at all.

[ausastronomer]

Yes Mike you are correct I haven't been out there much. The sole reason is because 4 years ago 2 of the then newcomers migrated the group to a clearly inferior site to what we had. There was no need to move the group from Paintball. Brian was more than happy to let us continue using the site after Froggy left and I made that very clear at the time. What was sad was that the first night of observing at Pony Club happened to be a night that Andrew, Gary and I were away in Coonababran with a group of visiting Americans and to be honest Mike I have been ticked off about it for 4+ years. I see it that 2 people who had been part of the group for all of about 5 minutes, essentially came in, took over and moved us unnecessarily to a clearly inferior observing site and in doing so burned our bridges at Paintball. They were welcome to join the group and be part of it. They weren't welcome to take over the show and move us IMO.

Cheers,
John B

[ausastronomer]

Mike,

What we had at Paintball was a great group of people at a very good observing site. What you now have at Pony Club is a great group of people at a very ordinary observing site.

The reason I used the term "blow ins" was not to discourage any newcomers or beginners. They always have been and always will be welcome anywhere I observe. Over the years I have bent over backwards to help them. I used the term "blow ins" to describe a couple of people who had been part of the group for 5 minutes, took over the show and moved it to an inferior site.

I am not ticked off by what happened 2 Saturdays ago. Andrew, Rod and Phil are big enough boys to defend themselves. I am ticked off by what happened 4+ years ago.

Cheers,
John B

[iceman]

That's just not how I remember it John, and I find it extraordinary that you'd still actively hang onto something like that 4+ years later.

Noone forced anyone to use a new site, and noone took over the group. If the majority preferred to go to the Pony Club, it's because they felt it was a better observing site for them.

[Rodstar]

Hey Deeno!

I have no desire to create waves, and as you would be aware from this thread, I have not become caught up in the debate John has raised about the change of venue, the suitability of the venue, the observing skills or interests of those who now attend the PC, or how or why there was a change of venue. As Mike has rightly indicated, we are all free agents, and no one forced anyone to change venues, etc. and I have no desire to get embroiled in that discussion, regardless of my personal views of those issues.

I like the bunch of people who regularly come to the PC, and it is always great to get out when possible. We have had some great observing experiences together, and I have enjoyed our time together at the PC over the years.

The ONLY issue I have raised is over your choice of words in one sentence. Maybe you did not intend to say what your words, on their face, suggest, and I would therefore be very pleased if this could be cleared up.

As a matter of simple construction (pardon the lawyer in me), the import of your words which I quoted in my original response to you is:

1. There exists two groups of people - regulars and non-regulars.
2. All regulars are aware that there is an alternative access to the site which does not require a key
3. As Phil, Andrew M and I did not know about the alternative access, we are non-regulars.

The implication of this is that our not being able to observe at the PC this last time was our fault - for not being regulars. If we had been regulars, we would not have encountered this difficulty.

Words matter. When I read your post, I was offended. This is because I have been going to the PC for years, and I believe that if you added up all of my attendances, I would have been as many times as anyone in the group. I have made an enormous contribution to the group over many years, spending countless hours showing people the sky through the Mary Rose. Being described as a non-regular, and this being given as the reason for why I could not access the PC, is, to me, an offensive suggestion.

This is why I then spelled out the necessary implication of your statement. On YOUR version of the situation, while many of those in the know (the regulars) were up at Bretti enjoying their observing, those not in the know (the non-regulars) were unable to access the PC. I was teasing out the logical consequences of YOUR statement. I was not suggesting that I believe in a cloak and dagger conspiracy, rather, I was pointing out the implications of your statement.

I think it is very unfortunate that people such as Phil, Andrew M and me have not been made aware of the alternative access. As a group, we should be better at sharing this sort of information, to avoid situations like what happened last time. It would have been very helpful if, just once, when on the endless chatter on the forum about whether a keyholder would be present, someone, anyone, who knew about the alternative access could have said something, rather than remaining silent about it.

I would be appreciative is someone could show the alternative access point to me next time I am up there, so that there is no repeat of last month.

It's all good!:thumbsup:

[Shano592]

This is probably getting a little out of hand here, and tempers are rising, that don't necessarily need to.

My recommendation is that if any one has issues with another, to leave it off the forums and talk out any differences face to face. At the Pony Club, perhaps, over a beer or 5.

I'm told that amber liquid, shared in groups is supposed to be a good tonic ...

[Deeno]

Yes Rod, I do apologise. I certainly did not intend to segregate an 'us and them' mentality as there is none.
I wrote that post in haste and it is poorly phrased....

Its not a club or organisation and there is no hierarchy. These nights are very loosly thrown together.....You just need to read the threads!

[Irish stargazer]

Ah, this brings back memories of the Shannonside astronomy club and it's observing nights. To avoid situations like this, which are unavoidable when the weather is hit and miss or not many people are available. A few people were assigned as observing directors who had "keys". A text alert would then be sent out to everyone who had put their mobile on the observing list saying the event was on and at what time (if it looked promising). The assigned key holder would turn up rain or shine (mainly rain where I come from :lol:). This avoided the "maybes" on the forum pages and you were assured that at least one person would be there with access. We always got a good turn out even on dodgy nights.
It's the lack of a definite commitment that may put people off going.
Just my thoughts as a newcomer:shrug:

[gb_astro]

I am really really surprised anyone is recommending accessing the PC through the side gate.

As far as I know the PC does not have any right of way, right of access or even a verbal agreement with that adjacent land owner to use his driveway to enter the PC.
That side gate is a good 150 metres from the front street boundary so if you meet the owner coming the other way it might be a bit awkward trying to say you just pulled off the road to check your directions. The straight fact is that if you are on that adjacent land you are trespassing.

That members have been using it and no one has yet been challenged is just a matter of luck and as we all know luck eventually runs out in time.

That challenge almost happened to me a couple of months ago.
Myself and Joe, who also did not have a key, used the side gate to access the PC on a Friday night.
When we left about 1am we got lost trying to relocate gate.
We eventually found the it. Joe left first while I stayed to close the gate.
As I was doing that I could see the headlights of an approaching car coming up from somewhere far down the track.
Our five minutes of driving in circles around all those trees in the dark was apparently enough to arouse the suspicions of the neighbour.
Not feeling too brave by myself at that time of night I decided to just get out of there.

However a couple of kilometres down the road the guy was right behind me flashing his lights.
I pulled over expecting the worse. I think he was expecting the worse too so he approached pretty cautiously and said he just wanted to know what I was doing around there.
When I told him I had just been at the PC he calmed down and fell back on a story of how there had been a lot of burglaries around there lately and as he had seen lights in the trees around his place he had rushed out to investigate.
I am positive I got to the main road before he saw me so I assume he assumed I had left the PC via the PC main entrance.
If he had seen me on his property I think his attitude would of been a lot more hostile and I can completely understand why.

This was quite a scary incident especially when I consider the possible less favourable outcomes to the situation.
To prevent it happening to anyone else I strongly suggest we try to forget all about that side gate.

The only reason I decided to use the side gate in the first place was that I assumed that it must be close enough to the main road so that you could zip through it before anyone would notice.
At about 150 meters off the main road this is definitely not the case..

Greg.

[gb_astro]

Good to see the dust finally settling a bit around here. :)

To avoid another 19th of May I think we just need to get a few more keys out there, starting with Rod, if he wants one.

Anybody object to that?

If no objections perhaps Allan or one of the other key holders could post him a copy?

As long as we can insure each social group at the PC has potential access to a key this situation should not happen again.

Greg.

(This thread reads like one of those reality disaster docos where it takes a string of otherwise minor incidences to bring the plane down! :))

[Irish stargazer]

The first time I went to the PC I parked in the side road a few metres off the main road waiting for someone to arrive and open the PC main gate. A car pulled up beside me and politely told me I was on private property.

[Irish stargazer]

How about a key holder sound off. Who actually has a key?

[norm]

All,

What about the idea of hiding a key somewhere near the gate? Obviously you would not disclose it here on the forum, but for those interested they can site the specific location for future reference.

Am I missing something else ?

Cheers Norm - irregular PC user.;)

PS: One time I pulled up into the wrong driveway, only to have a bloke accost me as to what I was doing. After explaining the situation it was all good. Apparently they were having a spout of scrub fires and were suspicious of any unusual movements!

[Rodstar]

Thanks Deeno - appreciated! I was perhaps a bit too quick to jump down your throat, so sorry if I expressed things rather too forcefully! I do love coming to the Pony Club, and look forward to many more pleasant nights under the Southern Canopy!:thumbsup:

[Rodstar]

Thanks Greg, I would love a key.:) PM coming.

[Carlz]

Wow, after a few days of been sick with the flu, i come back to see these responses... Honestly it sounded like i was back in school. I am not going to get involved, but all i want to say is that the PC is a great site, and so is the company. I have only been going for about 18 months, but i have learnt a lot from the people that attend, and have also made great friends. I have organised before, borrowing keys off owl so we could have access. I should be a bit more organised next time... But hey the PC is always a last minute decision with most people :)
Anyway i hope everyone has put it behind them. To be honest, its a darker sky than my yard, so what more could i ask for!

[Amunous]

If its such an issue hand keys out to all and sundry.. I'm quite sure no problems would arise out of this... As for the elitist jerk saying that the pony club is an inferior observing site.. that's fine stay home I would rather not listen to you whine all night about how crap the sky is.
And the reason some people know about the side gate is that they just happened to be at the pony club for an observing session when we found a big "stay out" padlock on the front gate that no one had a key for. (Is it still there?) One of the trustees for the pc had to come up and let a workman in as she didn't have a key for the lock either and told us about the side access. And I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned in other pony club gathering forums. It was not being hidden from anyone.
I suggest if you have an issue with someone that attends pc then don't go or go when they are not there or here is an idea stay away from them.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Michael,

You have a lot to learn about Astronomy and human nature. I am far from an elitist. I have done more over the past 25+ years to help beginners, newcomers, social groups and schoolchildren, than you can possibly imagine and will continue to do so.

I got my nose out of joint because a bit over 4 years ago several of the then newcomers essentially took over the group and migrated it to a clearly inferior observing site than what we had used for well over 2 years. The reason they preferred the Pony Club was it had a warm cosy shed, an urn for hot coffee, a pie oven to keep the party pies hot and a fridge to keep the pyss cold. These are clearly major pre requisites for a good dark sky observing site to a serious observer. One of the then newcomers made the comment at the time, "the Pony Club is great, it has nice low horizons, particularly to the South". Yeah great, much closer to the lights of Gosford than the Paintball Place and nice low horizons to let all the light pollution in from Gosford and the surrounding houses. Further, what serious observer wants to observe down there in the soup anyway, unless it's a target that never reaches higher elevation. Clearly the focus of these people was on the creature comforts of home, hot party pies, hot coffee and cold pyss, and not on the quality of observing conditions. If you think the Pony Club has good skies you seriously know very little about observing and sky quality. I would rate it 3/10 at best, Paintball was 6/10, Bucketty is 7/10, Ilford and Lostock are 8/10, Coonabarabran is 9/10.

We had a far darker site exactly the same distance from the Freeway at the Paintball Place and unfortunately burned our bridges there and couldn't return. This meant that the people who were serious about observing had to find an alternative site, that had decent sky quality

You speak of elitist? It doesn't get any more elitist, or a takeover, than the group of newcomers, who now term themselves regulars, having never once offered a key in 4+ years, before yesterday, to any of the ORIGINAL Central Coast observing group, which included Rod Berry, Mike Salway, Andrew Catsaitis, Andrew Murrell, Gary Kopff and myself.

This is the last post I will make on the subject. I have aired my gripe.

Cheers,
John B

[Amunous]

Oh I understand "your" boys club was taken away from you and your cranky... Not that it was moved but because "your club" was taken away without your say so. It was 4 years ago you say you burned your bridges at paintball so get over it.

Btw telling me I have a lot to learn and you blah blah blah is you being an elitist jerk. (And you sound like you help people for the accolades as you keep bringing it up.) My experience should not enter into it. As you don't know who I am or what my experience is your making assumptions about me. You know what that's elitism, sorry we all can't be as Worldly and helpful as you.

I'm sorry your mancave boys club was taken away but like I said get over it!

[iceman]

Time to close the thread.