Cost of Electricity

[Exfso]

I just got my latest quarterly power bill, and I thank God I have solar. Based on my previous useage if I did not have solar given AGL's current rates, my power bill would have been a bees whisker under $700.00. That is outrageous considering 2 years ago for the same period I would have only been billed around $400.00 I used to use on average 21kwh per day and over summer around 25kwh.
Now with solar, I am getting money paid back to me, that is a turn up for the books.

[PCH]

Peter,

hey that's pretty cool. What's the rebate they give you per kWh over there?

Here, I think it's been reduced to a measly 7c a unit.

If it costs 21c a unit (it's a bit more, but I just want to use that figure to make the sums easy !), does that mean that if I use one unit while I'm at home during the evening, say - costing 21c, I have to produce 3 units during the day (3 x 7c =21c) to break exactly even on the bill?

Is it as simple as that or am I missing something from the equation?

Cheers :thumbsup:,

[Tandum]

Ours are regularly around the $900/quarter mark. I got a wireless monitor that told me the meters where reading 30% high, but of course when they tested the meters it was: nothing wrong wit em. Now I hear they are changing tariffs so depending on when you use it will dictate the price. So up at 4am for breakfast and dinner around 10pm I suppose :rolleyes:

[Exfso]

Hi Paul, it is a tad more complicated than that. It used to be 44c/kw exported back into the supply, but the Govt in their infinite wisdom decided to do away with that figure here and now it is 16c/Kw exported back. However if one had already been connected to the scheme before they dropped back the feedin tariff, they stayed on the old rate, and I believe it is valid until the mid 2020's here in SA. I get an extra 8c/kw because I am with AGL, so for every Kw I feed back into the grid I get 52c back. However for every Kw I use I get charged at an increasing rate starting from 28c/kwh for the first 300kwh used then around 32c/kwh for the next 900kwh used and so on up to around 38c/kwh for the really big user.
The figures you used should read not produced, but exported, dont forget you are still using power when the sun is up and the panels are generating, and the house takes the power from the panels, and what is left is exported back into the grid,or if you use more than is being generated, you then import power from the grid, so based on your example you would need to export 3kw back into the grid which means your panels may have to produce up to double that taking into account your usage during the hours of solar generation. Other factors come into play as well, eg clouds, weather, time of year, trees, house orientation, roof pitch etc. I was told by my installer that here in Adelaide we get on average 7.1hrs of sunlight a day over the year, that is capable of producing power, whether there are clouds etc around, this can vary, but it is the average here at least. As an example, I have a 4.5kw setup, and in the peak during the summer I generated 32kw on a cloudless cooler day, it dropped back a few percent on the really hot days. Now with the sun further north I am lucky to produce 20kw on a clear day. This will probably drop back to around 15kw by mid winter on a clear day. There were a few days when the weather was particularly overcast that I did not export any power into the grid in fact the panels were lucky if they generated 2-3kw total during the day.

[jjjnettie]

Holy cow people. What appliances are you using to cause such a large bill??
Mine for the last quarter was $173.
And with a little bit of diligence on my part, I'm sure I can get it below that next quarter.

[dugnsuz]

He's testing out all those bloody light boxes!!!:D

[Exfso]

JJ you dont live in Adelaide, we get reamed every which way here.:mad2: As I said before, my daily consumption is around 20kwh, to get a bill that small here, you would have to use less than 5kwh a day, dont know too many people who do that and live in a place full time. One of my mates lives on his own and runs bugger all at home, he still uses 8 kwh per day. I have actually cut back on my usage in the last few years and the prices have doubled. Last year alone it went up something like 30% from memory. Not sure what you guys pay per Kwh of usage, but I will bet it is no where near what we fork out. People are defaulting everywhere in Adelaide, they just cannot pay their power/utility bills and the greedy power companies keep asking for more price increases, and the stupid powers let them have it.:screwy:
The woman who lives next door to me has 7 kids, single Mother, previous power bill was over $600 and that was before the latest price hikes, I have no idea how she makes it, well I do, but dont reckon I can mention it here;) Now we have to contend with this damn carbon tax that will send more over the edge, but I wont start the ball rolling on that hot potato. Power is tipped to rise markedly as a result of that little gem, I reckon they should re-name Australia, TITANIC, very apt considering this year/month is the 100th anniversary of that tragedy.
But I digress, :D as I said at the start of this thread, thank god for solar otherwise I would be in deep doodoo...:rolleyes:

[Barrykgerdes]

If you want electric power you need to pay for it. My power at the SPSP will cost $1 per KWh. For that we get TV, internet, power for computers, telescopes etc (all night) where there is no mains power.

Barry

[strongmanmike]

Terrible state of affairs I know and when we consider that 1.3 Billion people on Earth have NO power at all...hurumph! we should be complaining, it's a travesty I say...

Mike

[swannies1983]

Same here. Latest bill is $680 for the quarter. That's up about $70-$100 more than normal. Usage was up a tad, but that's to be expected given my wife is pregnant and we have a two year old. Plus the summer rate on top. My local chicken shop has stopped selling chickens. Higher electricity prices are partly to blame.

[Paul Haese]

Not sure about others, but we are pretty miserly with our power usage. For the last couple of years we averaged out at $350 per quarter on the power bill. We have some general rules. No downlights are to be used regularly. When we walk out of a room we turn off the lights. Most applicances are turned off at night to prevent power usage. And; we have solar panels. Since installation we received our first credit a month or so ago and it was for $220. Power has gone up here but usage needs to be monitored to prevent costs blowing out. Many people I suspect are quite wasteful with power. Yes the prices are being hiked up a little too much but being careful with usage makes a big difference. At this rate the initial cost of the PEV system should be paid off in 5 years and after that it is money for jam.:)

[Peter.M]

Can I ask what a chicken shop does if they dont sell chickens? Was that their plan when they became under financial stress?

[CDKPhil]

You only need to blame our state Governments for privatising the power companies.
The less power that is used the more expensive the power will become.

We are all told you need to reduce your carbon footprint, put in energy saver globes, turn off the lights, wash in cold water ect. Most people are doing this and the power companies don't like it.
Yes it is great that we are using less power and cutting back carbon emissions, but we will pay higher and higher prices because of privatisation. If the utilities were run by Government as they once were, they only need to make enough money to cover costs, research and development and infrastructure. They do not need to pay greedy share holders dividends or make record profits every year.

Speaking of greedy share holders might be worth buying shares in a candle manufacturing company.:P

Cheers
Phil

[traveller]

I am puzzled by the high bills as well. 20kwh per day is quite a lot. Is your hotwater electric Peter? Would a gas boosted solar HWS help? Even if you are home all day and run TV, computers, kettles, ovens etc, there are still many things you can do to save electricity :shrug:
Bo

[swannies1983]

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant a chicken take-away shop. They sell a wide range of other food but chickens are no more. The price they pay for chickens would be going up also, which meant they would have to charge $18 for a chicken. Yeah, they are big chickens but no-one is going to spend that much when you can get much cheaper chickens next door at Woolworths.

Their power bill went up well over $500 for the quarter. Cooking chickens and the warmer to keep the chickens hot are big power users. Plus the demand for his chickens wasn't that high (around 30-40 chickens per week).

[The_bluester]

We have two adults and a child home during the day and have reverse cycle heating at one end of the house and a wood heater at the other, our wintr bill has hovered around $1000 for years. Last year between the mild winter and conscious work to save power we dropped our consumption markedly, the bill was just under $1000!

We have gone even further over the warmer months and have kill switches for standby power on everything we can do so for, same deal, significant use age reduction in order to stand still bill wise.

[swannies1983]

I have argued with with my wife for using the dryer regularly, even in summer :mad2:, but I can only say so much to a pregnant mum ;).

Heaters are another thing. I just say wear more clothes or bring in the blanket from the bedroom. Again, try telling that to someone who's pregnant with a toddler.

Hot water service is electric but it has an off-peak setting. I always set the timer of our dishwasher to run after midnight. I use cold water when washing clothes and I very, very rarely use the dryer.

[jenchris]

Well my quarterly is about $230 steady and my power is dropping slowly as I reassess power usage. I drop it to keep the total the same.
I no longer use AC or Heat pump.
Most of my lighting is either LED (downlights have been replaced)
or compact flouro (which I hate). Cooking is Gas
I'm not concerned really as I shall retrim until I'm using a head torch for seeing and an ipod for entertainment if necessary.
I have my PC on all day - water is electric. I have no dishwasher or clothes dryer.

[swannies1983]

Just had a look at the last two bills

Latest: $684 with average 24kWh usage per day
Previous: $493 with average 22kWh usage per day

All previous bills around the $500 mark. It will be interesting to see the next bill given no summer rates.

Wife home 4.5 days a week. Electric hot water service (hopefully replaced with gas in not so distant future), electric stove/oven and also have a second fridge for wife's cake business.

[The_bluester]

I suppose we pretty much have to suck it up to a degree. We are rural so gas heating is out of the qustion (Electric would be cheaper than bottled gas!) have just installed solar hot water with a direct gas booster after waiting ten years for the old gas storage unit to fail and justify the change over. We have electric cooking for the same cost reasons (Although we might need to look into that and reasess between bottled gas and electric) and have two adults (My wife and I share a property with my mother) at home all day who both spend much of the day working on computers.

Without seriously freezing I am not sure there is much we can do to markedly reduce winter consumption, about the only string we have in the bow this year is to install an air transfer kit to move heat from the wood heated end (We have a pretty good wood supply on the place) to the reverse cycle end, but a decent one is liable to cost around a thousand and will take a couple of years to pay itself back in reduced power consumption.

[marki]

I don't understand your logic here???? People are suffering so we must suffer for being more industrious??? 1st world countries send billions in aid to 3rd world countries each year (gov't and aid agencies) yet all that seems to occur is the installation of one tinpot dictator after another who rips off all the aid and kills large numbers of the general population. Like I said, totally confused by your post on this thread and its relevance to the topic. Prices are rising and it needs to be discussed as to why that is happening and the effect it has on everybody concerned. Could it be due to careless governing by the powers that be??? Thats why we live in a democracy, we can move the offending party on. The more expensive it gets to buy basic things like power and water etc the less likely 3rd world countries are going to be able to share in our wealth. People will not be able to donate to charities that try to service these countries and the technology will become totally out of reach (its not just the unit cost that will increase). How does that help anybody???

Mark

[AndrewJ]

Just to take a different slant on this.
Reducing consumption doesnt always help overall,
as the utilities will ( and are ) just jack up
the underlying supply charges
so you pay more even if you use NO electricity.
I disagree with the earlier "greedy shareholders" comment,
as like it or not, the govt privatised the system,
and businesses are there to make a profit.
That said, I reckon the comment re keeping it in govt hands
has "some" merit, as overall costs may not have been reduced,
but you only had one management chain
who were responsible for everything
and they actually trained their own staff/apprentices
in quantities that meant we didnt have to import skilled people.
It would be interesting to see how much management and overheads
cost before and after privatisation.

The current system is designed to maximise up front profit
and let someone else do all the "less popular" processes like
maintenace and training.

Andrew

[Exfso]

The cost here in Adelaide have definitely gone through the roof since privatisation. We were told it would be cheaper, what a croc! since privatisation it has damn near trippled in price, those responsible for selling this to private companies should be strung up by the family jewels. I have gas hot water and cooking and still the cost of electricity is going up, so is gas and water for that matter, where will it end really. Luckily I get enough back from my solar to pay for the gas as well. I also have switches that turn off all my appliances when not in use, so I dont even have standby on things like TV, stereo HIFI etc. I have worked out that my average daily consumption, taking into account the solar has now dropped from the previous 21kwh to around 15kwh and that is as low as I can get it without moving out and living in a tent. I used to have a fridge plus separate freezer, now no freezer all downlights are low voltage, high efficiency lamps where used, so have done all the right things, but it never seems to be enough. When I go to bed at night, the place is virtually blacked out, only things on are fridge, alarm clock and monitored alarm.:eyepop:

[TrevorW]

What are power companies going to do when no one uses that power because it's too expensive

????

Plain and simple we are being screwed, in WA they split a Govt utility to semi privatize the operation and costs have risen over 50% is the last 3 years

Look at water costs consumers in general use around 10% of total water consumption the rest is wasted by business, the worst offender being the mining industry

[jjjnettie]

Having lived off the grid before, it's kind of ingrained in me to conserve energy.
We don't have a dryer or a dishwasher. Lights are never left on in unoccupied rooms. The computer is on just about all the time (surprise surprise) as is the router. The telly is only on a couple of hours a week at the most.
Our hot water svc is a small one, so it doesn't take long to reheat. I truly think those big units are a false economy. They hold so much water that they are constantly chewing the power trying to heat it up.

[tlgerdes]

I know where my power is going, I've got a datacentre in my garage that chews up 6KW a day.:help:

[strongmanmike]

:rolleyes:..........:prey:

[Peter.M]

Im not sure this makes sense, how is appearing more intelligent going to serve Mike?

On a side note, It would serve you better to spell intelligent correctly.

[tornado33]

I understand that people who installed solar panels get a very generous tarriff paid for whatever they return to the grid. Sadly, that should never have been started as it is unsustainable, and to that end governments have put a stop to it, the NSW O farrel government stopped it.

They are under contractual obligations to keep paying those who installed panels before the cut off dates. O farrel was going to cut it back across the board but on legal advice is not cutting back what existing solar panel owners get.

Unfortunately, they are getting their extremeny cheap power at everyone else's expense. Governments dont want to admit that one reason power is skyrocketing so much is that we are paying for solar panel owners. This is those of us who could not afford to install panels, or those in flats/units who dont have access to the sun on a rooftop, or those who rent. The tarriff paid for putting power back into the grid should have been the same as taking it, eg if it is 20 cents/kwh to use it, it should be 20 cents/kwh to put it back in.

I simply refuse to believe the reason for costlier power is maintaining the grid. Power is like any product. The more that is made, the cheaper per unit it should be to make. If a car was hand made it would cost many times what it does if mass produced.

On the "old days" of strongly unionized workplaces a bloke I knew who did his apprenticeship in the power stations sait it was a real bludge, no one worked hard yet power was dirt cheap compared to what it is today with everyone working their guts out. The massive Bayswater and Eraring power stations were built yet power did not skyrocket to pay for them. No new very large scale stations have been built in recent years yet power is skyrocketing. It cant be infrastructure costs. Modern power grids require less personell to operate as they rely more on automation and remote control. A modern substation would be more efficient to operate and should require less maintainence.

We have a huge abundance of coal and now, natural gas, yet instead of paying the cost of getting it out of the ground and to us, we have to pay the market rate that overseas will pay. Thats a reason that our energy reserves should be fully nationalized NOT run by non government companies. If that were the case we would be paying a lot less, as we used to in the goold old days when power WAS nationalized.

All energy supplies should be nationalized, and supplied to us on a cost price basis, the government should be running the show with the objective of providing the most cost effective energy to us possible.

[supernova1965]

Must be cloudy everyone is bored again:P

[Hagar]

In the old days of the SECV life was quite a bit slower and electricity was much cheaper. Forward planning was the normal and infrastructure was well maintained. With privatisation came the loss of skilled employees and share holder returns to worry about so inevitably up went the cost of electricity. Forward planning was replaced with crash repairs, trained staff were replaced with hire staff and profit became the benchmark.

Remove the huge profits and electricity would be a lot cheaper but this will never happen again so get used to paying more.

[PCH]

Dan,

on a lighter note - you're not helping the cause at all here matey. You just need to sit down quietly with your wife and watch 'Dances With Wolves' together. At the time when Kev C is trudging through the forest with the Indians, point out how the pregnant Indian lady just gives birth there and then on the march. She stops for a minute or two, does the honours, picks up the bub and continues the march to the next camp. Today's women need to have the old ways pointed out to them, don't you think. It gives them more character.

And also, - what's this you say? YOU wash the clothes in cold water ! Oh dear oh dear, whatever happened to washing the clothes being women's work mate.

So there's a couple of things you could be pointing out to the missus. I'd say you probably have to pick your moment. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see her reaction when you mention these things. Probably thank you for it actually. Possibly with a great big frying pan though, so be prepared to move quickly if necessary.

Oh ****, I just heard the wife's car pull up in the driveway, and I haven't got the tea on yet. Gotta go ! :thumbsup:

[Peter.M]

I am sorry for my remarks Hagar, but I can see Mikes point of view and I didn't like how you dismissed it. Power prices are getting higher, that is not in dispute. Everyone who can read this is paying the power bill still, maby at the expense of a few luxuries. People in other countries don't get the basics. Mikes comment gave this thread a little perspective.

And I dont usually call people up on simple spelling errors or grammar, but when you essentially call someone an idiot I think you need to get it right for people to take you seriously.

[Poita]

I average 12.5kw per day, with 5 people in the house. What are you guys running?
I don't have a TV though, or a dishwasher or a dryer, a PC is on nearly 24/7 but a while ago I replaced it with a low power Intel Atom server.:question:

I do run a projector for watching movies/DVDs, an ancient electric stove, a single medium sized fridge and electric hot water, but the tank is inside which may help. I'm not particularly good with turning out lights, and we have wireless internet.
I do switch off all the transformers (phone chargers etc.) at the wall when not in use, and showers are quick (I used to be on tank water and am still in the habit I guess) but we don't make any particular effort with power.

Not sure why my power usage is *so* much lower than some of you guys.

[TrevorW]

Ok, so what do you do in a situation where you are only on one income and

a) your wife has a disability, can't work and needs the air con on all the time when the temp gets over 30 degrees

b) you do run around making sure power isn't wasted and insist that washing except undies are placed on the line to dry, the undies go in the dryer

c) have solar cells but now the Govt only wants to give you 7 cents but on charges at 20c a kwh.

use gas for hot water and cooking.

Peter we are referring to costs in Australia not what happens in the rest of the world.

You must remember the G20 produce enough food to feed the whole world but instead of undermining profits they'd rather let it be dumped and let the rest of the world starve, so it's irrelevant whether that 1.3 billion have power.

[multiweb]

19kw/day - house of 4. Work from home though so PC up and running 10h a day. I used to do 22 to 25kw. Cut down a bit. We don't leave everything on and always turned lights off, etc, but bills have gone up 5 folds I'd say in the past 15yrs, especially since 3yrs ago. Steep climb. I don't know but my feeling is that someone is pocketing a lot of money in the process. I mean there's no such thing as free energy but c'mon. Let's be serious ;)

[Marke]

I agree Marc my bill has doubled in the last few yrs and not doing anything different. Whats worse I thought I would try and cut power use last winter as my bill comes in at $700 , I used 3/4 of the power from the preivios bill and the cost still came in at $700 ? how does that work ? I am trying a different provider to see what happens.

[Exfso]

As usual we have a bit of a slanging match going on, all I wanted to get across was the incredible increase in the cost of electricity in the last 5 or so years, or since it went private. It would also be interesting to see the differences in rates in different states. I agree we should go national on this as we are all in the same boat. There is load shedding, and as Doug works in the industry, he is the best to consult on this area. But power is bought and sold across the country, why should it not be a consistent tariff between all states and not be at the whim of the power companies and state governments. It really is a bloody shambles at present.
I know we live in the supposed lucky country, but for that we are most definitely paying the price. I believe the electricity costs in Canada are amongst the cheapest in the world, even NZ across the ditch our nearest neighbor is not paying anywhere near what we pay. Or so I have been led to believe. So there are other lucky counties not being ripped off like we are. It really is a matter of corporate greed in play here, but I am sure someone will disagree on this as well. The top cats are not affected by this outrageous cost as they can afford it, I pity those on the bones of their collective bums who are struggling to make ends meet while the top cats line their wallets.
I honestly believe that if this had stayed a government run business, and not passed over to private enterprise, we would not see the monstrous increases we have seen in recent years.
Private enterprise was supposed to promote competition, what a load of old cobblers, look at the banks they are all in bed with each other like a cartel, the same applies to these mongrel power companies. They are bleeding the power industry dry.:shrug:

[jenchris]

I was watching new inventors last year and a professor and a young scientist came on.
They had a paint they had developed which was pretty much ready to market - it was more efficient than the equivalent size solar panel, it was 1/3 the price, and it was flexible and could be applied to any surface. Its payback period was bout 7 months.

So where the hell did it go?
http://www.dyesol.com/index.php?page=NewsArticle&archiveitemid=67&archiveitemdatetime=2011-06-21%2012:46:16&archiveitemstart=1&archiveitemtotal=46&archiveitemlimit=2

This is the only company I could find and there's no one selling the stuff.

[ballaratdragons]

You reckon the electricity mobs are ripping you off.

Try this.

We were FORCED to accept a new sewerage system here in Snake Valley. But guess what. It doesn't even take our sewerage away.

What does this lovely service cost us?
Initial 1st cost of connection: $2600
Total cost of connection: Still unknown
Annual Fee: $680 added to our rates!

Add to this the fact that they will be fitting an electric pump to our existing Septic Tanks that will cost us more in power usage to run this thing.

So, for several thousand dollars connection, $680 extra per year, and $$ extra on our Power bills, we get absolutely nothing.

Why?

Because all the Water board is doing is taking some of our water. The sewerage waste itself still stays in the Septic Tank!
Mind you, the water they take is to be pumped up to the Golf Course to water the greens!!!!

For those of you familiar with Septic Tanks, the poo stays in the 1st tank and the overflow of water goes into the 2nd tank, and when that fills it goes through an effluent system and waters the ground, which actually makes very healthy fertile land.

Well, we are now being charged those fees shown above so they can take that effluent water.
And the Septic tank still has to be pumped out every few years like usual!

This whole process was done illegally by Council and the Water Board, and is now being investigated.
1. Why are certain residents being charged to supply free water to the local Golf Course.
2. There is no evidence Scrutineers were used to check the vote count (only certain properties in the town are going on this system, and all have said they voted no at the public meeting and by ballot, but it went ahead anyway).
3. Now all the work is completed, the tenders have gone out for the work to be done (ILLEGAL. the work is already completed).

The only houses on this new system are the houses in the Main St (our street) and one other street. No-one else in town is being connected to it.
So, at my huge expense, I get to water a Golf Course!!!!!
and my power will go through the roof.

And as an encouragement award, if we fail to allow the plumbers in to carry out the work, or the electrician access to connect the pump within 18 months, then our Installation costs are to be doubled and we will be forced to connect.

[PeterM]

Peter (exfso) you did get your point across, some are just blinded by their lights.
And we don't even have a carbon tax added in .....yet.
Now that will really test many as more will be forced to candle lit nights cooking over a wood burning stove, exagerration? it's already happening.
Mike you are correct today we do live in a truely priveleged country, problem is just about everyone else in the world wants some of it. So maybe tomorrow we will become part of the lowest common denominator through our desire to help others? Being so goody goody what do we do - slowly and surely we send our wealth, inventions and manufacturing overseas or give it away and then find another way to tax ourselves for the privelege, other countries must think we are nuts!
What kind of Australia will my grandaughter and her children have in 20 years is cause for my concern today.
We are being taxed to blazes through mostly useless self interested government hell bent on winning the next election, telling us that privatisation of essentials like electricity etc will save us $, a complete croc, my electricity cost has increased significantly 'cause some government twits can talk the talk and justify it.
1.3 billion without power in the world is just side stepping this threads title and I believe intent, the cost of electricity is starting to hurt. While the massive rise in the cost of electricity may not be a concern to some with a gazillion cables hanging off a dozen scopes, to many out there it is hurting terribly on top of other rising costs.
Wake up Australia we are being taken for a ride and paying the price for public wastage on a grand scale.
PeterM.

[TrevorW]

Hi Jen

I don't know if you read their flyer the price list might explain why no one is producing SP's yet using this technology, the dye costs appear quite high and you'd wonder how much would be needed to coat a surface of sufficient size etc

Prices as quoted don't usually eventuate unless the product is mass produced and the demand is high

Cheers

PS: Lets all be friendly now, Mike and Doug, hug and make up big boys.

[CDKPhil]

Just had a look at my bill I am in Queanbeyan NSW, My Provider is Country Energy.
$761.78

1996 kWh @ 26.228 $525.51
controlled Load 1095 kWh @ 9.264 $101.44

Service Availability 95 days $67.58 ????

And GST $69.25

Rather expensive.
Mind you it used to be over the 1K mark but I am filling in the pool. Not running the pool has saved heaps. Waste of time having a pool down this way.

I looked at the bill for the same time last year and I only paid 22c per kWh peak
and 7.8c off peak.

Cheers
Phil

[jenchris]

Trevor W
That company is not the one that I was talking about, it was not photosynthetic - it was another process altogether - the one that was on the new inventors was taken over by the Victorian Government and shelved. They promised it would be produced on the market by last year - fat chance if someone wanted to make a profit with old fashioned technology - you have to shelve the new stuff until later.

[strongmanmike]

:lol: I have tried :love:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

That's all I am trying to say :thumbsup:



This is where I disagree. Hurt? Compared to much of the rest of humanity we have plenty of room to soak that up, billons of other humans just don't - it's that simple that's all I am trying to say :shrug:



Well that describes most on here :lol:



By "Out there" I assume you mean Australia?..Yes I totally get that and I don't disagree and we can always look to improve but seriously, there are many, many people far worse off around the World through no fault of their own.



Well in a sense I agree with you, we are slowly being convinced we have serious problems...when compared to the rest of the world.. we frankly just don't :shrug:

Anyway, I do agree that electricity is getting more expensive and I frown at my electricity bills like everyone else, they suck.

MIke

[Barrykgerdes]

What ever you do don't let Mike give you a hug. That would make things worse!:lol::lol:

I never cross Mike these days its too dangerous

Barry

[kinetic]

That is so goddamn funny Paul.:thumbsup:
I love your work...those that know me know I have a theory about blokes
called Paul...and you just confirmed it.
great injection of humour..I think we all need it lately.

Steve

[supernova1965]

I don't understand $700 dollar bills our quarterly bill is under $200 we have a large screen TV HD Set top box with recording so it is on all the time Wii game DVD player 3 computers . And a projector that we bring out for State of origin and other big events. Hot water system 4 Aircon's that admittingly we only use it on the hottest days of summer but we use them if we need too. Fridge , Electric , stove , microwave , Washing machine Dryer which gets a workout in the wet season. Admitedly we are only two but as our electricity provider say's we use 33% less electricity than anyone else in our area:shrug:

[Octane]

Faulty wiring to the meter? :P

H

[Solitarian]

Lucky country for sure
This will be something we may proudly boast about, http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/power-prices-to-be-highest-in-the-world/story-e6frea83-1226305741810


:help:

[PCH]

@Steve Kinetic - thanks very much for that kind remark. I've finally found someone with the same warped sense of humour as me. I only hope Dan thinks so as well - lol. (Sometimes you can't be too sure that someone will take it in the spirit it's meant). But as you noticed, this thread did need lightening up a bit, and Dan defo needed telling too - lol. You'll never be allowed into your local "Mens Shed" if tell them that sort of stuff Dan :D

Anyway, wtf is this thing about blokes called Paul. It had better be good, there's a lot of us. My namesake is also the Chief Minister of the NT - not that that means much, but it's as close to fame as I'm likely to come. I wonder if he's a demi-God too lol. And, does it include that other famous PH - Paul(ine Hanson? Do tell.

Cheers, :thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

Actually we can make a difference, a lot of what happens relates to the Govt we elect our power to make change resides in how we elect that Govt, that is why it's called a democracy.:question:

Furthermore we can remove that Govt if we need too any time we want by people power.:poke:

Unfortunately we seem to have elected in the last few years a bunch of incompetent back stabbing liars who seem only interested in power mongering and feathering their own nests :help:while the majority of us generally whinge but do little to change the status quo.

Most of us could all end up living like this :campfire: joining that 1.3 billion while the remainder live in sheer luxury, in the meantime our :family2: struggle to survive in a country stripped of it's natural resources devoid of technological development while our taxes are wasted in Govt follies.

So next year make a change I know I will be.

:thumbsup:

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Yea Phil , as was done to New Zealanders about 20 years ago as a trial , and it worked , now Australia has gone the same route ,, Profits before People !!! :mad2: . Mongrels have us by the short and curlies , thats why I spend as much time out under the stars as I can ;) , not watching the TV , or what not ...
Brian.

[traveller]

Yep, most pollies nowadays are just puppets to vested interests. Long gone are the days of people with vision and integrity who stood by what they believed in and said what they meant and meant what they said.
Now that I got it out of my system, I will go back to fiddling with my mount.
Bo :D

[Nico13]

Well just had the PV solar panels fitted today. A 2kW system, not a big system but not a small one, not the cheapest but not the dearest.
Average yearly usage about 24 kWh a day, single income and bills around the $500+ range but the last one almost $600, usage was up a bit though. Wifey is at home all day though.

All the usual electrical bits and pieces, wireless this and that and the associated battery chargers but gas cooking and instant gas boosted solar HW using tanks to reduce water consumption.
Biggest killers are fridge, freezer and by far the reverse cyc AC for heating / cooling as we are on bottled gas, way too exy for heating.
Wood heating on those very cold winter nights but at $130 a ton for wood not cheep by any stretch of the imagination.
All energy efficient lighting and lights off where not needed, cloths dryer rarely used but do use the dishwasher on a regular basis.

So will be interesting to see if my investment was worth it as I also believe that we will be paying more for less in the future as the more of us able to fit solar panels will only reduce the power sold overall so the unfortunate ones without solar will wind up paying more to make up the short fall to keep those profit margins up. I believe I'll be on the 33c feed in tariff, I hope that hasn't changed in the last month or so since ordering this stuff but I also believe that I will also be paying a higher usage rate as well as it jumps to a higher rate for those with solar.

Who knows what's right but I do agree with a lot of the comments re the shift to private supply and feel we are just overloading a system with overheads and hangers on to provide a so called competitive market place, I think not.

We shall see I guess.

[strongmanmike]

Lucky..?? In all the fundamentals - absolutely!

1) Life expectancy (just scroll down and soak those ghastly figures in, just for a moment)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectanc y

2) Hunger...?...heck we don't even make it on the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GHI_2011_Severity_Map.jpg

3) Level of Democracy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Democracy_Index_2010.png

4) Economic Freedom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2012_World_Map_of_the_Index_of _Economic_Freedom.PNG

5) Level of Education:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

etc etc etc

In the end regardless of electricity prices it is this final measure that sets the overall scene guys - yes we are the Lucky country now just believe it! :thumbsup:

Overall World Ranking for everything important (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Developm ent_Index)

That will do :)

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mike

Whilst i agree we are still better off than most,
many in this country are now going backwards relative to CPI
and a few are screaming ahead and dont care.
It cant last.
When an average person earning $20-30 per hr before tax has to go to a dentist or lawyer etc who charges $400 per hr, something is wrong.
Life in any society is based on a feeding pyramid,
and if the people at the bottom go under, the pyramid collapses.
I dont care what happens in other countries, if we dont end up
with an "equitable" system here, it will end in tears,
and we appear to be heading there fast.
The current privatise and be damned appears to be
a short term money money grab by govts ( of all persuations )
and we will all end up paying for it,
with a big chunk of the money going OS.
And as an astro example, look at all the people who
squeal like stuck pigs about the cost of gear in Oz.
They want "their" salary to be a first world one relative to the
costs in Oz, but reject paying prices that allow Oz vendors
to also live in the same "relative" conditions.
Bernoulli had it right with his theory on "regression to the mean",
ie we're heading for the poo but just cant smell it yet.

Andrew

[AdrianF]

Our bill was $780 and both my wife are out all day so no one home to use power. All appliances are turned off when we go out and at night minimal lighting is used.

Adrian

[strongmanmike]

Hi Andrew, all maybe true but in the scheme of things it is just pessimistic cheery picking to me (no offence intended), in comparison to the rest of the world we are still the best...I mean did you have a good look at No1 in my post above.?? - fairdinkum, it can't be too bad here because we just won't die! :lol:

Mike

[lacad01]

Gremlins ;)
Yep empathise with all the groans about power bills, in the same situation myself but in a household of 7 people I can see how the power gets chewed up...

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mike

Just give it a bit of time, and see what happens. ;)

And just remember, there are now people in this
country who cant afford to live.
Its a small number at present but its growing.
Its not pessimism, its just observation of whats happening.
Andrew

[swannies1983]

Mate, your comments seriously made me laugh so no offense taken. This thread certainly appears to have needed it.

I probably let too much information out. However, pregnant wife = lots of hormones flying about ;). Have to tread on eggshells every now and then. If I keep my mouth shut long enough, do chores around the house, I can spend more time outside imaging :D....or go off to AFL Grand Finals.

[Exfso]

Ken I wish I knew someone like you to get firewood off here in Adelaide, it was $320/ton last winter, probably higher this winter. Typical of SA everything is ridiculous for the consumer. You would not believe the excuses the firewood suppliers come up with, they blame the cost on everything from location to weather conditions for the price hikes, really it is just them filling their pockets, they know people cannot affort electricity for heating so they jack up the price of fire wood.:screwy:

[icytailmark]

all i can say is.... "There will be no carbon tax under the government i lead"

[strongmanmike]

Oh there's a clear explanation for that, nicely explained here :):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5ljcri6Nk&feature=related

and on a Carbon Tax...?

There is this in 2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs

and this in 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcH0Wrmy74&feature=related

Hmmm? Yes, minds and ideas can certainly change it would seem :)

[marki]

:rolleyes: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

In the lucky country no one should be without, if they are we need to fix it before worrying about 1.3 billion people from outside. Perhaps a good example would be the indiginous people of the north of Australia....living it up, long life expectancy, first world ammenities, communities rate high on the world scale....I think not. Try no food, no power, no shelter, no doctor and no hope of it getting better any time soon.

Mark


Mark

[supernova1965]

I find it sad that this kind of thread is inundated when JJJ's thread on the recent Earthquake is virtually ignored in comparison of numbers of replies.:shrug:

[strongmanmike]

Outside? so this 1.3 Billion are now "outsiders" oh I see, trash, meaningless non Aussies, who cares huh?

But you are absolutely right on this sad state of affairs with our indigenous poeple Marki...but none of these genuinely disadvantaged Australians are on this thread in an astronomical Web community of Naglers, Digital focusers and I-Pads complaining about their increased power bills...are they..?

Mike

[supernova1965]

It's alright Mike we live on Planet Australia obviously not on Earth as I thought.:P

[strongmanmike]

Hmmm yes...

Anyway, better leave it there, becoming a bit off topic (sorry) :hi:

Mike

[Solitarian]

WOW,, google much :rofl:

Wiki is my bible, I shall not think :lol:

OK , so your cup is full and overflowing and can't empathize with those doing it tough.
Hopefully we'll benefit from others misfortune when they can't afford to pay for power and the light pollution resultantly diminishes.
Maybe dark skies will loom across this lucky land once more.:screwy:

The distance between haves and havenots is scarily increasing.
The poorest 20% of Australians own 1% of household wealth, the richest 20% own 70% of Australias total wealth.
Factor those statistics into your google reports and show us a seperate result for various demographic and s-e groups within Australia.

[Barrykgerdes]

Time to close this thread
Its just becoming an argument between the haves and havenots.
The wingers verses the jokers.

Barry

[strongmanmike]

My cup is far from full, it just has more in it than a large chunk of the Worlds population and I recognise this, that's all I have been saying. I live from pay to pay and struggle to pay my mortgage and electricity bills like everyone else, I am a storeperson in a factory and earn less than the average Aussie wage.

I just don't winge about everything (other than people winging about everything) when I know how lucky I am :thumbsup:

Appreciate what you do have not what you think you should have...just a little bit more :)

Mike

[CDKPhil]

Mike.

This thread has nothing to do with the 1.3 billion people who do not have power.
This thread is about the over pricing of electricity in Australia, and how it effects Australians.

The only correlation I see between power companies ripping us off and 1.3 billion without power, is that those companies would drive us into the same situation.

We are been dealt an injustice. Just because there are 1.3 billion out there who are without power, does that mean it is ok for greedy companies to rip us off. The profits of these corporations do not go to the 1.3 billion people without power.
Corporations only care about profits they do not care about people.

They are taking money away from the community that could go to help those 1.3 billion.

I hope you don't take any offence to this, there is none intended.
Just getting my point across.

Cheers
Phil

[GrampianStars]

:thumbsup: I hear Ya! Just got my 6 month bill $438 ave daily use 12.85 kW
Must admit clear nights are out in the obs with power off ;)

[Paul Haese]

Just as an adjunct I thought I would add these comments.

Today I am paying for my Dad and my step mother to have a small solar system installed. They are struggling to pay a $300 bill and both are retired, although my dad goes out into vineyards at 72 and works for a bit each year to supplement the pension they just don't have enough money to take care of themselves.

The concern I think is for pensioners and people on fixed incomes. Pretty soon the average power bill will reach $2000 and this is untenable no matter whether we live in a lucky country or not. Power is now exceeding many incomes and many people are finding it tough to meet the bill. Yes we can reduce power bills, but if power keeps going up at the rate it is, then some thing has got to give in the end.

Pete, do what I do. Every time there is a storm I cruise the neighbourhood and look for fallen trees and limbs. Large ones get a knock on the persons door and I ask if they want it removed. I save them money and I pick up firewood. It costs me my time and some fuel for the chainsaw. Also buy firewood now and store it. The cost is lower this time of year when people are not using it in high demand. Buy 3 tones now and the cost will be pretty low.

I tend to agree about the comment some pages ago that said solar power should be paid back at the rate it is charged. I have always thought that I should only pay for what I use. I don't mind being paid money to deliver power as we spent a lot of money on making it all happen, but I don't want people suffering at my expense.

Mikie, you old lefty, off taunting everyone again. ;) Yes we live in a fortunate country, but remember everything is relative. Combine all the other bills and life can start to be onerous. If it is this bad now how bad will things be when we retire? That is what I am concerned about. How will I pay my bills then? Lucky....Hmmm... Maybe.

[traveller]

Unsubscribe me :P

[Exfso]

I most certainly agree that this thread has gone off at a tangent, the bickering is not what I meant to create, it was purely to point out what is happening with the cost of power, not what is going on elsewhere. I know there are disadvantaged people all over the planet, and I do feel for them, but I am only talking about local issues and the greed of the utility companies.

[CDKPhil]

What can we do about the situation Peter?
How can we reduce the strain on the Australian community?

Unlike some people I do not want to bend over and take it up the proverbial.
There are to many Australians who are suffering now. And as Paul has said what will it be like in the future.

I see people on this thread with a genuine concern about the welfare of Australians. (not their hip pocket, as some might suggest).

I think one solution might be a de centralisation of power production.
( Have community power generators) run by the local people owned by the local people..
This would be hard to implement in big cities but for rural towns I think it could be achievable. Solar, and wind.

There a problems with base load power and setup costs. But if the Government was serious about reducing greenhouse emissions they might offer some sort of grant.

I guess self sufficient homes are out of the question due to cost. But surely with all of the great minds out there, there is a way.

Cheers

[PCH]

Well what exactly are you saying Warren?

If I recall correctly, which I do, you have 4 or 5 posts in this thread, but only one in the other thread that you mentioned.

Clearly, it shows that people, including you, feel more inclined to comment on something that is hurting us here right now here in Australia, than something that may hurt someone else a long way away from here.

Doesn't mean we don't feel for them though, when and if it happens :thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

This may enlighten a few as to the reasons behind higher energy costs if you want a read

http://www.advocacypanel.com.au/documents/AP432ProductivityReportondeclineand electricitydistributors.pdf

[CDKPhil]

Thanks for the link.
Man what a convoluted system.

What ever happened to the KISS formula.

[Exfso]

That is one heavy read I must admit. One needs to be a Rhodes Scholar to understand the nits and grits I reckon. Having said all that and browsed the letter, it still does not alter the fact that people are suffering with these ridiculous increases getting out of control. When the needs of investors and shareholders come into play, the big boys want profits and really dont give a toss how they get them and it is usually the low to middle income people who suffer as a result. The fat cats sit back and laugh all the way to the bank. This is the same in almost all facets of business.
From what I could see quickly in the letter it appears that the Govt run suppliers are more expensive than those run by private concerns, the mind boggles really considering that at least here in SA since it went private, the cost of power has risen at a ridiculous level compared to when it was state owned. Somehow something does not add up, end result we are copping it where it hurts.:shrug:

[supernova1965]

What I am saying is that people forget that we all live on one planet and are one people what effects anyone on this planet effects everyone. We are not Australian's, Americans, English, Acehians or Calathumbian we are Earthlings and it is about time we start to live that way. Some science fiction writer once wrote it is only when every person has enough to survive that our children will truly be safe.

[CDKPhil]

From what I can gather, it is the AER that has been instrumental in the price hike.

"In 2006, the jurisdictions voluntarily transferred regulatory authority to the Australian Energy Regulator (AER), which commenced as the regulator of electricity distribution
22networks on 1 January 2006. The AER has suggested that this would promote national consistency, reduce regulatory costs, and more clearly separate regulation from policy. However, Section 3 shows the outcome has been significantly higher prices and lower productivity."

[TrevorW]

What screwed WA consumers was a change of Govt in Sept 2008 with the first budget laid down in 2009

2011 increases



5% for households and small businesses from 1 July
13–29% for large businesses from 1 July

2010 increases



7.5% in 1 April and 10% in 1 July for households
7.5% in April and 10% in July for small businesses
7.5% in April and up to 10% in July for large businesses

2009 increases



10% in 1 April and 15% in 1 July for households
5% in April and 10% in July for small businesses
0% in April and in July for large businesses

Before 2009

Before 2009, prices for residential customers had not increased since 1997/98 (excluding GST). Prices for small business customers had not increased since 1991/92 (excluding GST).

[marki]

In relation to the aussie tax dollar you are dead right, the 1.3 billion don't matter. People who get on their soapbox and preach differently are obviously blind to what is happening in their own back yard especially when political agenda's are at its heart. Now I earn well above the "average wage" whatever that may be and price hikes would have to be large to affect me in any way so why should I care? As part of my job description I am required to coordinate 1475 students in community outreach. As part of the WA curriculum high school kids are required to complete a number of hours community service helping those less fortunate than themselves. This means I have to keep close relationships with agencies like the Good Sammy's, Salvo's, Vinnies etc etc. It also means I have to participate myself in fundraising events, house visits, soup kitchens, emergency aid and so on as I need to provide the kids with as many opportunities as possible. In short I get to see much more than I would like and the situation is desperate for so many people who are not able to cope even though it is often kept in house with most of the general public having no idea. Whats more we have a boarding program where 40 indiginous kids from the far north of WA (Tanami desert) are invited to attend the college for the full 6 years of high school, most are illiterate. A number of these kids are left to their own devices by alcoholic and drug abusing parents from as young as 5 years old. They arrive riddled with health problems such as scabbies, nits, rotten teeth, malnutrition, eye and ear infections (some are deaf in one ear) and so on. Some are habitual glue/petrol sniffers and also have drug addictions. The first year their stomachs struggle to deal with 3 square meals a day and they are often complaining about the pain. Many spend their lunch time in my office which I share with the assistant principle in charge of boarding. Many a time I have gone to write on the white board with my markers only to find the tips missing. So addicted to solvent abuse these kids pinch them whilst I am not looking and chew the ends to get the ethanol (there tounges are blue, red, green etc). They also have a strong addiction to aerosol, mortien included and we must supply roll on deordourants and the like to avoid the temptation. Worst of all when it all gets too much they first fight each other and when that does not resolve the problem they tie a rope to the nearest convient object and try to hang themselves. I am not being frivolous in saying the 1.3 billion don't count, I just think we need to fix our own house first. A good Gov't could do a lot more than we are currently experiencing by taking responsibilty for the fundermental utilities and making sure all have equal access to this countries success. Yes I do care but home first as many of the countries with large numbers of poor (e.g. india) have enough resources of their own if only they had the will.

Mark

[strongmanmike]

If you think we have it generally bad in Australia now...then I am afraid there is no other country that you can go to and make it any better - what are you benchmarking us on :shrug: how good does it have to be before you can accept it just a little? :shrug: :question:.....I give up :doh: :lol: :love:

That's it finito..double promise :lol:

Mike

[PCH]

Klatu Berada Nikto - Gort Beringa ! :help:

And anyway, why would it be left to a science fiction writer to come up with that profundity? Why wouldn't a million philanthropists and philosophers have thought of it first. Answer me that Earthling ;):)

[acropolite]

The real problem here is not energy prices, rather than mismanagement of our utilities by our elected representatives. Our utilities have been sold to prop up unsustainable spending by our governments, the buyers are basically doing the same as the US utilities do, i.e. sit on their hands and wait untill demand exceeds supply, then jack the prices sky high.

In my own state of Tasmania we have the dubious advantage of having a state owned electricity system, hampered by an abysmal business model, foisted upon us by a non existant competitive environment (and the ACCC) that simply doesn't exist here.
The single entity Hydro Tasmania has been split in to no less than 5 companies, each with it's own bloated operational structure. To make matters worse, our Government has "engineered" donations in the form of sponsorship by some of these companies to Victorian AFL football clubs.
Then of course there is the subsidising of power to the big smelters compliments of the taxpayer, these companies get their power at a small fraction (lesss than 20%) of the cost to the average consumer.

Our Tasmanian state government is very good gouging the taxpayer then handing out corporate welfare, not so good at maintaining our schools, police and hospitals.

The moral of the story is to examine the mechanisms that have delivered your utilities in to private hands and examine what benefits have flowed on to you if any, then think carefully the next time you vote.