Is this a good telescope?

[Sheap]

I recently started my university course at monash, including a unit in astronomy. This rekindled my life long love of the stars, and when i looked into it i realised i could now afford a fairly cheap telescope. After looking through a couple of stores and a few websites i found what i thought to be a good value scope for my price range. (Im on youth allowance $220 a fortnight and i dont need to spend a lot of it) But i wouldnt want to spend too much more than $350
http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-060

Im no stranger to technology or the R.A dec system, so i dont think the equitorial mount will be a problem. I would like to take photos, will this be able to be done with a standard digital camera like advertised?

My biggest interests lie in looking at planets and larger bodies (nebula and such). Will this be a large enough apeture for this?

I guess what im asking is if any of you know of any better value sites or stores out there, or if this will satisfy my needs.

[[1ponders]]

Hi Sheap.

Welcome to the site. You've started off well by asking before buying. If you are interested in photography then you will be be disappointed. The only photography you will be able to do will be afocal (holding the camera up the othe eyepiece). You have the right idea of using an equatorial mount for photography, unfortunately that one will never be suitable. ATM your budget would not stretch that far. Instead think about an 8" Guan Sheng GS-680 (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm) from Andrews communication or the Skywatcher SW-680 (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-064)from Myastroshop. Either of these scopes will do a great job on planets, nebula and galaxies.

If you really want to do astrophotography then adding another zero to your budget would be more realistic.

BTW the actual scope on the one you posted could well be a pretty good scope, it's the mount that will let you down.

[Miaplacidus]

I think a lot of people will tell you that an EQ1/2 will frustrate the hell out of you. Although you might be able to get some reasonable images with a camera piggybacked on top of the OTA, you will not seriously image through this telescope, IMHO. It is hard to recommend any particular course with regards to astrophotography when you are on a fairly extreme budget, but for planetary imaging you can do a lot with a dob and a webcam, provided you have a computer and the right software (much of it freeware now). For that money, frankly, you'd be better giving up the idea of photos and concentrate on getting a dob. Again, JMO.

Cheers,

Brian.

[gaa_ian]

Hi Sheap & welcome to the forum :welcome:
I think your $350 would be much better spent on an 8" Dobsonian mounted reflector, especially if you want good nebula views & a peak into the realms of the distant galaxies
Here is one that may suit:
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm
or
http://www.bintel.com.au/Binscope.html
You will need to spend a lot more for an EQ mounted imaging scope :scared:

[Sheap]

Ive looked at dobsonians but dont see that they would have any large advantage. Is their only advantage ease of use?
photography isnt that important, but i would enjoy it if i can get any photos.

[Sheap]

andrewscomm looks like a good place, but i cant find any online purchasing options, and they are based in NSW, living near melbourne thats a bit far.

also, links from andrewscomm dont go to individual telescopes, so without a name are rather pointless. thanks for the help so far though, youve given me something to think about.

[cometcatcher]

I was about to agree with everything said, especially with astrophotography. But there is a way of doing deep sky photography if you get this video camera, incidently from the same shop. http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/gstar.htm

Now it's just a black and white video camera but it's needs are very minimal scope wise. The mount only needs to track on a single axis with enough accuracy for 2.5 seconds, or for that matter 1.25 seconds would do. That's it, no guide scope or anything if you view the image on a monitor. To record frames you use a capture card in the computer. Of course that's another $595 for the camera. The scope would be of no use with film or digital SLR cameras.

I agree though there are better and more expensive options in telescopes for photography.

For visual use a cheap 8 inch dob is very good.

[[1ponders]]

One advantage is that you will get double the aperture, so you will get to see deeper and have higher resolution.

For an equatorial mount I wouldn't suggest anything less than an Eq3. An Eq1/2 will lead you to nothing but frustration, especially if you have even moderate expectations of seeing deep sky objects. I have 3 equatorial mounts and have helped many budding amateur astronomers who have bought these mounts. They are more trouble than they are worth. Especially at that price. If they were for sale at half the price I would say, maybe think about it. Eq3/4 is the smallest I have and I would consider it the minimum for an 80mm scope for moderately frustration free imaging.

Dobsonian may not look like a "professional" but bang for the buck you can't beat them.

And I don't have a dobsonian. I like photography. You will get very frustrated using and Eq1/2 for imaging.

[Vermin]

The main advantage of a Dobsonian is that you get a larger aperture for for your dollar, and the larger your scope aperture the more you will be able to see.

Edit: Bah! Paul beat me to the answer.

[[1ponders]]

The names are there. The link is Guan Sheng GS-680 from andrews (click on the dobsonian link down the page) and SW from my astro

[cometcatcher]

Come to think of it if you just want to image planets it can be done with a dob and a webcam type camera like the Celestron Neximage. Mike has written an article on how to do that.

Now you may not get images as nice as members on the forum with their multi thousand dollar setups but if you have no choice and are on a tight budget it can still be done to some extent.

[janoskiss]

The advantage of the Dobsonian is that you are getting a lot more aperture for the same amount of money, which means you will see more: more stars, more deep sky objects, more details on planets, nebulae and the Moon.

Also, the Dobsonian mount is simple but very sturdy. The cheap EQ mount will be very shakey and wobbly. And the 4.5" telescope would soon leave you hungry for more.

6" Dob or 8" Dob should serve you well; the 8" very well. The SW Dob from Myastroshop is a little more ergonomic than the GS. Ring or email for best price and tell them IIS sent you. ;) And once you have more to spend you can get a sturdy EQ mount to put the same telescope on for astrophotography.

[Sheap]

sorry, i should have mentioned who i was talking to with the comment about andrews comms, gaa_ians was unlabeled as to which telescope he was refering to.

Another thing i need to consider with a telescope is that my backyard is not very large, id be able to see higher objects, but to get anything closer to the horizon, id need to go to the nearby park. Would a dobsonian be possible to take down the road?

[janoskiss]

The 8" Dob is very portable; easier to move around than an EQ mounted scope.

[cometcatcher]

How far is down the road? 6 inch dob should be okay, 8 inch may get a bit heavy after 100m, depending on how big your muscles are. ;)

[gaa_ian]

The 8" Dob is widely considered the best scope to enter the hobby with.
You will find it quite portable, especially if you have a duffle bag with long straps With this you can carry the scope over your shoulder & the base in the other hand (it has a carry handle).
Rule #1: Aperture (primary mirror size) Rules !
Rule #2: Get the biggest Aperture you can afford & are prepared to Lug around.
Happy scope hunting

[Starkler]

Hi Sheap,

The scope you linked us to is a type of scope we often refer to here as a "wobbletronic". Thats because such a mount is very flimsy and frustrating to use due to underengineering. Remember what might look reasonable sturdy in the shop is hopelessy flimsy once you start magnifying by say 100x. Focusing is an exercise in frustration as the scope wobbles around.

The two main advantages of a dobsonian is firstly extra aperture (which is quite important), and secondly a much sturdier and stable base mount to support the scope.

[Sheap]

All of you seem to recommend the 8" dobsonian, and have convinced me, illl start saving a little ans should have one by the end of the month :) is www.myastroshop.com.au (http://www.myastroshop.com.au) a good place to shop? or is there another site/store near melbourne to get one?

[janoskiss]

Try Bintel in Melbourne for GS Dobs; although they have cut back on their range. No more "limited" models, and the 8" is gone from the website too. :shrug: All the feedback about Myastroshop has been very positive, and the guys who run that place are amateur astronomers themselves (ditto guys at Bintel). Be sure to mention IIS when you talk to them.

[Starkler]

If you can get an 8" dob , its enough scope to keep many satisfied for a long time..... that is unless your name is Steve and you take a peek through an 18" obsession :lol:

[janoskiss]

Quite you! :poke: :P
I may be getting a bigger scope, but my 8" is not going anywhere! It's still going to be my main scope at home. Cannot beat it for grab-n-go aperture.

[chunkylad]

Hi Sheap

You can obtain to GSO 8" Dob from Andrews Comms in Sydney (Greystanes) via mail order. I had my 12" dob shipped to my home in Townsville - a little further from Syadney than you would be in Melbourne - for around $90; bargain. It arrived 3 days later, at my door, in perfect order. No trouble.

Andrews has the 8" standard version for $399, or the deluxe version for $449. This version has a 2" Crayford style focusser which will allow you to use 1.25" and 2" eyepieces. This is a superior focusser to the r&p type

Good luck

Dave
PS; you won't be dissapointed with a Dobsonian 'scope.:thumbsup:

[rmcpb]

The 8" dob would be a great choice and you will not be disappointed. You could easily put in on a trolley to move it to the park if it is within walking distance, make sure the trolley has large pneumatic wheels to absorb most of the bumps though.

[Dan31415]

I just purchased the 8 inch from Steve at myastroshop after recieving some great advice from the IIS forums. I had never dealth with this store before, all I can say is the service was great and the product arrived in a couple of days and was collimated!! - which is pretty amazing considering that it was sent to Darwin. It also came with two super plossl eyepieces a 10mm and a 25mm. I chose the Skywatcher over the GSO because the Skywatcher seems to be finished better and the shipping cost through Andrews was a lot more, $25 from myastroshop compared to $120 from Andrews. Myastroshop uses Star Track Express which means that you can track your parcel on-line.

[ving]

hi sheap... everything said so i'll just welcome u :)

BAAA!

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Hi Sheap ... about 2-3 weeks ago I was in exactly the position you are, same initial budget, looking at a similar kind of scope / mount. I asked questions here, plenty of great people gave me plenty of great advice (most of those same people have already posted to your thread here).

I had actually done up a comparison spreadsheet of 14 different Dobsonian models across 3 or 4 suppliers ranging from 6" @ $299 up to a 12" spec'ed up model at just under a grand. If you want a copy of my spreadsheet in Excel format message me. Looking at this I was sold on an 8" Dob @ $449 plus postage as very best value for money, this model had the Crayford (better) focuser for $449 but you can get the "basic" model for $399. If you can find the $50 extra do it!

From what I have now learned I can say for sure: if your budget is locked at that $300-ish range go for a 6" $299 or 8" $399 Dob. What did I eventually do?? I took the time to ring Andrew's Communications, and Bintel, and MyAstroShop, and 2-3 others here in Qld. I got a feel for all of these guys, I asked questions, I compared what you get in the package - how many eyepieces, etc. The result??

I am now the proud owner of the Andrew's Comms 10" GS-680 Deluxe Dob .... ok, I upped my budget somewhat to $699 plus postage (to Qld) and temporarily flattened my bank accounts but it is superb!!! I haven't had it a week yet, in fact last Saturday night was the first night I got it outside, and what a night!

If I couldn't have found the extra dollars I would still have bought an 8" Dob - just because they seem cheap don't be fooled .. they ARE inexpensive, but nothing will perform like that for anywhere near the same money!

Happy shopping!!
Steve

[Sheap]

I think the skywatcher 8" is the way to go, i dont think i would be able to up my budget as much as you did. This one seems about the highest my budget could stretch from my initial thoughts.

by the way, love the "my god... its full of stars" quote, great books/movies (havnt read 2063 or 3001 yet but the others are great.)

[Starkler]

And that folks is the reason the good folks here keep recommending them :)

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Well Sheap you're the first person on here who has actually said they recognised my quote (from 2001: A Space Oddity for anyone who was not familiar with it) - it just seemed such a natural thing to say in this context!

Welcome to the ISS forums, by the way, and whatever you end up buying I wish you clear dark skies, excellent viewing, and a whole lot of fun.

:thumbsup: Steve

[nightsky]

Hi, Just came across this web page and it's in your neck of the woods
http://www.telescopeshed.com.au/ :)

DOB around your price range
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=30>
</TD><TD vAlign=top>150mm (6in) FL 1200mm (f8) on Dobsonian mount, complete with 25 and 10 mm (1.25in) <CITE>Plossl</CITE> eyepieces, 9x50 finder and 2in adapter. White powder-coated metal tube, white melamine base (requires assembly). Friction control springs on altitude bearings, providing optimal tube balance, carry handle on base and eyepiece rack.
$ 450.00 Incl. GST

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Well worth a look.
Good Luck

[acropolite]

For the same dollars at Andrews you will get an 8 inch which has almost 80% more light gathering area than the abovementioned 6 inch. A 2 inch jump in aperture may not seem much but in surface area it's a huge step. Add to that the fact that the $449 GS Dob on offer at Andrews has a deluxe crayford focusser and right angle viewfinder. The tube length on the 6 inch is just as long as the 8 inch so there's little space saving in the 6 inch as well.

[nightsky]

The only reason I posted that DOB, was it's in the same state where he lives, how much would Andrews charge for postage to Victoria?

[janoskiss]

Ditto myastroshop for the skywatcher (no crayford but better finish). But if the Telescope Shed is not far from where you are, it might be worth giving them a ring too, and ask if they can match prices.

[ThunderChild]

$40.
Hi Sheap. Everything all have said is good advice.
Noting that you want to keep the price down, I'll just pipe in with my 5 cents worth : I had a 6" GSO Dob shipped to Melbourne from Andrews comms ($299 + $40 shipping).

Have been very happy with it.
That $299 included some binos too, which come in very handy indeed.
Having said that, that is one piece of common advice I haven't seen here yet - don't be afraid to make your first purchase some binoculars. You'll be needing them anyway (even with a telescope), so buy and use them while you save for your scope.

[nightsky]

Silly me :( I would have thought he would have had binoculars,that was
the first thing I ever looked at the night sky with, but then thats me.:)

piece of common advice I haven't seen here yet - don't be afraid to make your first purchase some binoculars. You'll be needing them anyway (even with a telescope), so buy and use them while you save for your scope.

[Sheap]

I do have some of my dad's old 10x50 binoculars, i havnt used them to look up yet, ive just fished them out and its been overcast the last few nights.

looking at all these stores im thinking the 8" skywatcher from myastroshop or the 8" Guang shen from andrews com. its cheaper, but is that for a reason? are the mirrors not as good quality or something? Skywatcher seems to be proud of the quality of their mirrors. Anyone looked through both that can compare?

Im not going to spend $440 to get a guan sheng if i can get an even slightly better image from the skywather at $475 (both including postage)

[janoskiss]

Optically they are probably the same. The SW has two advantages over the

GS: 1. Ease of use: The tensioner handle vs the springs. Both these are there to create friction in the altitude bearing to stop the scope tipping over when out of balance. But the tensioner on the SW is continuously adjustable and its easy to quickly lock and unlock while changing eyepieces or other accessories.

2. Finish of the tube. GS has a thin single layer coating on the steel. Sometimes they rust quickly sometimes not (luck of draw it would seem from reports from members here). The finish on the SW is a lot tougher. More like the enamel on new whitegoods.

[ThunderChild]

Wow - you even came out of the womb with binos attached to your eyes?!
I am very impressed!
:lol:

[Sheap]

had a short period of no cloud cover, took out the binoculars and looked at the moon and orion nebula, the two largest things i could think of. Jupiter was too low. I cant believe how much better it is with just the binoculars, the moon sudenly looks more real.
I also have a small tabletop refracting scope for when i do tarket shooting that had a little more power than the binos. in short, i can't wait to get a big telescope.

[janoskiss]

Great that you are rediscovering your old binos. They will come in very handy for finding things to point your telescope at too. Mount them on a camera tripod for nice widefield views of the Milky Way (works better from a dark site of course).

[nightsky]

I was expecting a reply like that . I suppose the innocent are easy impressed. Lets just say this chat has now ended and "There the matter lays"

[janoskiss]

I thought TC's reply was hilarious. I guess I must be innocent too. Naked eye observing should not be underestimated either btw.

[nightsky]

Indeed :whistle:

[ThunderChild]

I sincerely apologize for any offence I've caused to you nightsky.
I made what I believed to be some light hearted fun.

For the record, my comment was an (arguably) humorous way of making that point that naked eye observing contains some joy. And it did turn out that Sheap had not yet used binoculars.

Again - very sorry for any upset I've caused you. :(

[nightsky]

Hello TC No need for you to apologize I am the one that should apologize to you, and which I do now, I took your post the wrong way, my only excuse being, I have not had much sleep this last few nights and should not have been sitting in front of the computer all of last night,and most of this morning,and should have had more sense taking offence at a light hearted remark. so all is good :)

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Naked eye viewing IS still a wondrous thing ... I am using my scope almost nightly, usually from around 11pm to 2 or 3 am, it's nice and quiet and dark then, but I still stop frequently and just let my eyes roam around the heavens for the sheer joy of it, trying to take in the enormity of it all! You don't see the "shooting stars" peering into an eyepiece, nor many of the satellites floating around serenely as they go about their business.

Sometimes I use my eyes alone to go "fuzzy spotting" then when I spot one I use the scope to check it out. Try it, you'll see what I mean, learn to look "off-axis" ie try to take note of things that are not directly where you are actually "looking" but offset, because the human eye has greater light sensitivity this way.

As for binocs - well they are great as you have found now Sheap, I often use either my 8-24x variables, or even the scopes attached 8x finder, and just troll around the milky way until something catches my eye.

And something always does!!

" 6 weeks ago I kuldn't even spell arstronomar, and now I are one!! "

[GrampianStars]

very true for me also :thumbsup:
also when peering through eyepieces for a no. of early morning hours
the eyes become tired and naked eye grazing the dark crowded 7mag sky gives em a break

I swear some nights I can read by starlight and often see sharp shadow outlines :D

[chrissarah]

as i was reading this thread... towrds the end before people starting dicussing the fact that someone has binoculars as eye sockets :P i noticed you guys talking about the quality of mirrors for both the skywatcher and the Guan Sheng GS-680 it stated on AndrewsCom that the mirrow within this scope is of a quality "1/12th surface wave BK7 mirrors" does this make any difference to the aurgument about which is better...
i am considering purchasing the GS-680 but hav enoticed the skywatcher is a little cheaper... also i spoke to lee today... who happens to be a friend of a freind.. and he said that this scope has one of the most accurate mirrors...
any people disagree???
thanks

[Gargoyle_Steve]

I always found that the mirror in my GS scope gave me a wonderful view - I do not have my 10" anymore, but that is only because I now have a 12" instead whose view I am even more impressed by. (Keep im nind I have been observing through decent scopes for less than 12 months, I am not an expert at all - I consider my viewpoint may be relevant to your own experience level though).

I have looked through Skywatcher dobs but only in 8" size so I cannot fairly make a true comparison on equal sized mirrors. Others may be able to provide more accurate comparisons re mirrors but I think you will find the quality of mirror manufacturing to be much the same. (Do they all come out of the GSO factory anyway??)

There is nothing wrong with the GSO mirrors, they make a pretty damn good product at a fantastic price. Consider that the Meade Lightbridge range of dobs are entirely manufactured by GSO for Meade, mirror included - they can't be too bad at all.
:thumbsup:

Keep in mind that there is a difference between GSO mirrors and a mirror manufactured by craftsmen such as Mark Suchting (a forum member) and other professional mirror makers, but with GSO and so on you are getting an entire scope (OTA on dob base), that is very capable of serving many people quite well, for just a few hundred dollars. With a craftman made mirror you are getting a VERY high quality mirror, but on it's own it will cost you much, much more.


To put it another way: I'd love to drive a Porsche, but I own a Ford - it does what I need just fine at a price I can afford. If I ever decide I need a Porsche I'll just have to save a lot more money first.:whistle:

(PS: Mark I do hope to be getting in touch some day, just not this year .. or next maybe... perhaps 2010 ... )

Cheers!

[CoombellKid]

And dont ya just love that, my back yard is the same as yours :)

regards,CS