New to astrophotography and have a few equipment questions!

[Studsy]

Hi everyone,

Im pretty new to astronomy and astrophotography, and would really appreciate some suggestions on what gear i should start off with.

I have purchased a C8-SGT on a CG5 mount, which i have been using for a few months now, but would really like to move into taking some photos. I am looking at purchasing a cooled mono CCD camera + filters etc, but i dont know if this is too large of a step to start off with.

So my questions for now are:

1. Should i start off with some DSLR imaging, or is going for a CCD straight away easy enough?

2. I am looking at an 8300 chipped CCD such as the QHY9. Is this a good camera, or is there another which would be a better choice?

3. What would be a good autoguiding setup for this scope?

Thank you in advance for your help! :)

[blink138]

i dont know a lot about it either but i have read hundreds of our members posts and i think a more experienced astro photographer would tell you to put the money into a better mount first
pat

[Studsy]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for your reply. I have read that a fair few times too... Any suggestions that arent too expensive though, as i am a uni student and it takes a long time to save :P

[CarlJoseph]

Welcome to the dark arts Studsy! ;)

I'm certainly no expert but for what it's worth, here's my advice ...

DSLR is the way a lot of people seem to go since they already have one handy to play with. Do you have one already? If you do, you might as well use it me think.

Definitely a good mount would be a worthwhile investment. I don't know what the CG5 mount so couldn't comment on that. A good balance between not to expensive and good quality seem to be the EQ6 mounts. I have one of these and really love it.

Hope this helps a little in some way.

Cheers,
Af.

[Studsy]

Hey Carl,

I don't personally own a DSLR, however i have a friend who lets me borrow his occasionally. So no matter how i start out i still have to purchase a camera!

Where did you purchase your EQ6?

[traveller]

EQ6 pro new is $1500 from Andrews and can be had for $1000 used here. There was one for sale in Perth before Xmas, but I am pretty sure it's gone by now.
Have you thought about webcam imaging? It's quite forgiving, basically take a short video of a planet, use a freely available program like Registax and stack all the good frames to make a decent image. Kept me going for 2 years, on a motorized EQ2 mount and a 114mm newt. A modified webcam costs around $90 and you can use your existing mount.
There is an article in the article section written by Barry (bloodhound) which is very informative.
All the best. Bo

[CarlJoseph]

I got mine from Andrews, it was around $1600 from memory I think with a few bits and pieces.

Bo makes a great point about the webcam option. It will definitely be a great way to get into it and get a feel for what's possible.

[Studsy]

Yeah i have considered a webcam, but i'm much more interested in DSO imaging, which i dont think a webcam is suited for.

I actually got to have a play with my friends DSLR last night and was amazed at the image we got of M42. Unfortunately i hadnt set the mount up right so it wasnt guiding too well :( It's definitely convinced me that i need at least a DSLR or a CCD

[traveller]

DSO imaging is very demanding and unforgiving. You will need a solid, accurate and stable mount. EQ6 as someone suggestede is a good start. What is your budget? A good mount and a ccd can easily set you back a couple of thousand, a good used DSLR would cost $500 upwards depending on what you get.
Bo

[RobF]

And remember you'll need a parallel guidescope setup, or reasonably expensive and challenging to configure off axis guider (and either way a 2nd guiding camera). Imaging above 1000mm focal length and F/7 focal ratio is also not a lot of fun when you're a beginner, and that's the region you're in with the SCT unfortunately. An experienced operator MIGHT be able to coax an EQ5 and SCT to give exposures of a few minutes or so, but you have to be prepared to throw a lot of frames away. Do you have the temperament to cope with that?

Another thing to consider for next couple of years is La Nina - be realistic in how much dark sky time you can access (important for DSO imaging) and how many dollars worth of gear will be lying around between sessions. If you can work from your backyard from time to time that's a big bonus, especially for learning your gear.

Trouble is, you've shot M42 through your own scope, so let's face it, you're dead meat now. :)

[Studsy]

Bo,

My budget is probably around 3-4 grand, but all of this is really a long term goal, so i still need to save all the money. At the moment im looking for ideas for how to start, but i want to have a setup which is good enough to just add on to until i have enough money to purchase much better equipment.

I'm thinking that to start with now i might save for an EQ6 mount and DSLR, probably both second hand...

Rob,

I really hope that i have the temperament for DSO imaging, because after last night i want more haha :)

I know i probably sound stupid, but would you mind explaining how the La Nina will affect the skies?

[CarlJoseph]

Ain't that the truth! :lol:

I would hate to see someone discouraged to explore astrophotography because of the cost. It definitely can get expensive quickly but try not to let that stop you. Yes, guidescopes, cooled CCDs and all of that stuff make the images you acquire a whole lot better. BUT ... you can do a hell of a lot with with a good mount, decent scope and a reasonable DSLR.

I've seen some amazing photography done with a basic DSLR and a dobsonian, 30 - 60 second exposures, quite stunning.

My suggestion if you're on a budget ... get yourself a DSLR and a cheap eBay intervalometer. This means you can start taking pics with your existing setup at 30 or even 60sec exposures. Then slowly build up the rest over time.

Cheers,
Af.

[RobF]

No-one really knows what the weather is going to do Jordan, but I think most guys on here would agree 2010 and 2011 were shocking years for clear skies (particularly around new moon Sat nights ;)) compared to the years immediately before. These things are cyclic, but it has been getting people down of late. You can google La Nina/El Nino to get the idea.

Qld'ers probably a bit more sensitive about it I guess, as many of us were swimming this time last year. Worth bearing in mind there are often quite marked "imaging seasons" for various localities. Perth locals could give you advice on what to expect on the west coast.

[Studsy]

Carl,

When i was taking the photos last night, the image was starting to drift after only about 5 seconds. Obviously i was doing something wrong + it wasnt polar aligned, so i probably need to do a better job next time :P Do i have to polar align for proper astrophotography?

Rob,

I didnt realise the skies had been so bad lately :P thanks for your explanation!

[graham.hobart]

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-487-0-0-1-0.html
Here's a link about setting up a CG 5 from this very website.
Polar alignment is the most important aspect of astrophotography, once done you can use your DSLR and be in happy valley without spending all the moolah you mentioned. Use an adaptor for your camera so you can use it at prime focus and you will be able to start taking those shots.
I am in the camp with most others that getting to know your mount and using what you've got (DSLR) is the best way to start without buying a 2000 dollar CCD then still being disappointed with the results.
One thing I would recommend is getting a guide set up, either a small finder guider or modified finderscope/small cheap refractor etc plus a basic guide cam. Once polar aligned and guiding you can get very good results from all DSLRS.
There is an active second hand market here for stuff you need, I even have a spare modified finder for guiding if you get a camera like a Starshoot guider etc
PM me if you are interested.
Cheers
Graham

[Studsy]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the guide. I'm going out again later this week so i shall give it a go then! I've pmed you about the finder!

[whzzz28]

I just (yesterday actually) went down the route of purchasing an entry level setup for astrophotography. I already have a 10" dob that is great for observing.
Spent about $3000 in total for a complete setup that should get me started.

I wanted to jump into the deep end of mono camera+filter wheels but after doing my research (and seeing the costs) i decided to start with DSLR. As funds (and my knowledge/ability) improve i can look into CCD.

Basically a decent mono CCD will set you back $1000+ (For instance an Atik 314L+ will set you back $1699) and a filter wheel is anywhere from $500-$1500 (i really do think filter wheels are horribly over priced for what they are!). Let's not forget the filters - assuming you want quality, lets say a set of Astronomik's 2" LRGB - $689 + Ha, OIII or UHC (whatever tickles your fancy) which are ~$250 each.

Get's expensive fast.

For what its worth my 'cheap' setup got me:
- HEQ5 Pro mount
- 80mm ED triplet APO refractor
- Canon 1100D (body only, with spare battery and 8gb SD card)
- Orion 80mm short tube OTA for guiding
- QHY5 for guiding
- Few others bits an pieces (adapters, extensions, Bahtinov mask, tube rings since the refractor has a (bad) L mount and a Baader filter).


And yes, you need precise polar alignment for astrophotography or else the image will drift.

[Studsy]

Thanks for that Nathan, sounds like you have a nice starting setup! Is there any particular reason you chose the Canon 1100D?

[whzzz28]

Few reasons:
- Budget
- Seems to produce fairly low noise
- Great battery life compared to other models
- Larger pixel size (5.2 um) compared to the other i was considering (550d 4.3 um)
- Supported by astro apps more so than other branded camera's.

A bit of reading: http://ghonis2.ho8.com/T3review/T3review.html

If your on a super budget you can try and get say a Canon 400d off eBay. They for for anywhere from $200-$400 second hand.

The above link also included detailed instructions on how to mod the 1000d and 1100d for astro work if i decide to go down that route a bit later.

I was able to get my 1100d, spare battery, card reader, 8gb SD card (prob wont use though) and screen protector for $399 delivered.
Considering spec wise it is similar/better than a 400d/450d and it was comparable in costs to getting one second hand; i decided to just get the 1100d.

[alistairsam]

Hi Jordan,

There's already some good advice in here, but have you thought of using a short focal length ota like an 8"f4 ?
I know it's another scope from what you have but it'll help reducing your exposure time and thus be more forgiving on errors, you could get some decent images by stacking one or two minute subs.
One downside is coma, easily corrected with an mpcc.
I have a 1000d and an 8"f4 and Have seen the difference focal length makes with imaging. Very significant.
I just bought a used qhy8 osc as a start into ccd imaging. Unmodded dslr's are a good start but the ir filter can be a hindrance from semi dark skies.

Is your ota fastar compatible? http://www.stargazing.net/david/fastar/fastartelescope.html
I've been reading up on hyperstar and the difference it makes with exposure times, so do keep that in mind.
It's not uncommon to have an imaging and visual ota as part of your collection.

I'd suggest sorting your guiding setup first till you can get 2 to 5 min subs and then moving to mono ccd's.

I think people have used focal reducers on ota's like yours for imaging. Will reduce exposure times.

In any case a guiding setup is a must.
Lookup eBay for used dslr's.

Good luck

[graham.hobart]

Hey Jordan, just some more tips from a guy that was in your position about 18 months and several dollars ago!
Use what you've got before the big rush to spend. I did pretty much the opposite and have found myself with six, soon seven scopes and two mounts. Bloody internet!
I originally bought an EQ 6 which was great but it was stored outside, under cover and after it started slewing wildly then stopped working altogether, I used a tax rebate to buy a CGEM mount. Couldn't be happier with my CGEM though I wish it could take a bit more weight. Of course then the EQ 6 started to work again!
In that time I have acquired an 80mm APO refractor, bought and sold (now regretfully) a 100mm refractor, got a second hand 8" reflector off Ice in Space, and a brand new 10" f4 reflector. All added to my original, now de-forked Meade 8" SCT. Plus two 80mm short tube Orion guide scopes which at a pinch are not bad for visual/imaging.
Now have just put an offer in on a 90mm Mak Cass for my travel scope!
Point is, once you are on the slippery slope it gets crazy steep man!
I splurged on an Atik 314L+ when I originally was cashed up, I have used it seldom as the chip is quite small and the technique of mono imaging with filters is something I am saving for my dotage! (too hard bin)
DSLR"s are cheap, they have big chips and even unmodified, you can get pretty pictures with them.
My feeling is that you can have loads of fun with what you have got plus a guide set up. Once guiding, or even doing 30 sec exposures of really bright DSO's, you can get some great pictures. Then get to know the cheap or free software that is out there. PHD, DeepSkyStacker, Stellarium etc.
The point about DSLR chips (sensors) is that they are big, so much easier to find objects and focus on, so use the Canon utilities or other software like Astrophotography Tool to do Live View focus.
Then get to know about processing - this is another steep learning curve and one I have just reached the last bus stop before base camp on!
You can splurge on Photoshop, go free on paint.net, GIMP or similar, or go bargain/cheap on StarTools. The latter is good as the software designer is a regular on this site and you can ask him idiotic questions like I do and he replies! Bonus.
Many people have photoshop, which is hideously expensive unless you are a student, but there are apparently lots of tutes on line to help with astro processing.
There is no substitute for getting out there and having a go, then asking the good folks about what happened on this forum. Shameless plug here but I have learnt all I know about astrophotography (think match head or Victorian stamp) from this very web site. Plus a whole lot more I didn't really want to know about spiders and weird weather and some useful stuff about computers.
I also have bought quite a few things from this site and sold a few too so don't be afraid to make an offer on something or flog that old dusty thing that you are sure no-one would buy.
Thought just occurred to me - one thing I would say about SCT's in general (SGT's) I found the focus knob on my Meade was a pain- and the first and one of the best upgrades I did early was to get that cheap JMI moto focus unit with handbox that screws on, so once you are on target you don't have to bash around at the back of the scope for fine focus.
DSLR's- doesn't matter as long as you can get Live View or such like ( I don't know the Nikon equivalent)
Live View makes life so much easier to focus, assuming you are USB connected and sitting in front of your lap top with Astrophotography Tool or Canon Utilities or Backyard EOS etc connected. So you can sit a metre away, with your red cellophane covering your laptop screen to maintain night vision, and use your remote (connected by cord) focus, and watch the focus on your screen. Using a Bahntinov mask (focus aid which is cheap and mostly idiot proof, though idiots like me sometimes forget they are on and start taking images through them!), then set up and calibrate guiding, then set off your imaging run with the software of your choice. Sheer poetry when it all works!
Course if you don't have a laptop spare- I always found that one of those cheap right angle view finder attachments for the camera was really useful- could find then try and focus through the camera (Mine was made by Seagull brand, off ebay I think).
Power- think reliable clean mains power if you can for the mount, if at a dark site get a big battery. I used to use rechargable batteries for my camera- even got one of those heavy battery extra add on things that fit around the base of the camera. Great, but. And there always is a but. If you observe near the house get an AC adaptor for the camera. My camera batteries rapidly lost the will to live when the temperature became interestingly cold. Once again, ebay or IIS is your friend here.
Do not bother with a Celestron Power Tank. Unless you only want to power a very small amp device in ambient temperature for a short duration.
Go the deep cycle battery for the field trip- I recently powered my EQ 6, laptop, video camera and light from a deep cycle battery for the local club public evening.
The other thing which I would highly recommend if you have a GOTO mount is one of the cheap versions of the plug in GPS module for celestron mounts. Don't buy the expensive Celestron one. I have the cheap StarGPS one which works on a lot of different goto mounts, it works very well on my CGEM.
Sorry about the long diatribe, but clouds have come in ruined my plans!
As Nathan says also, ebay or local shop for second hand dslr body, don't really need a lens if it saves the dosh. Just the live view which is good. His link on the Gary Honis site is great for comparing dslr's, and is also a font of knowledge about other stuff- I modified my own second hand bought 450D using his instructions. Now I am three quarters of the way through his Peltier cooler mod.
Join the local astro society, borrow your mates DSLR again and polar align, whack out 30 shots of iso 800 of M42 -do exposures ranging from 10 secs to 45 secs (longer if you are aligned), shoot in raw mode on the camera, then put the cover on the telescope/camera viewfinder and take the same shots again. Now you have a bunch of images (lights) and some darks in RAW.
Store them in a folder then open up DeepSkyStacker- open this folder with the top command open picture files this is your images/lights. check all. Add dark frames- check all (add your cover on. cap on darks)
Follow the prompts and just agree. Will stack your lights and darks (don't worry about flats etc yet)
Once stacked it will be a very dark image. Wait for it to finish loading then you can either adjust the saturation or LRGB etc or just leave it and save it as a file to desk top.
Then open that file in StarTools, Nebulosity (forgot about Nebulosity- good programme) or PS, and adjust from there.
Easy eh?
:eyepop:


Long message, lots of info, sorry about that but as I said clouds have ruined my plans tonight. La Nina needs to pick up her skirts and skittle off somewhere else for a change
:cloudy: Graham

[OzRob]

There is an excellent camera in the for sale section going for a song: SBIG ST7ME+CFW8+Filters (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=79581)

Although easing into is a good way to go as well. Along with the technical aspects of actually taking the photos there is a lot of other stuff to learn. I know the most difficult aspect for me is to get all the software working with the equipment. Every night I would have a new issue to deal with. For me this was due to the fact I jumped in at the deep end very quickly. I went from manually pointing the scope at a target, manually focussing and then using a timer on a DSLR to take the photos to full automation in a short period of time. There were a lot of challenges. Unless you want a lot of frustration I don't recommend it.

A better option would be to first get a decent mount and get that working with a computer. A webcam would be good to get practice at generating PEC curves and for software based polar alignments. You could then image with the webcam and a DSLR. Although the camera I posted a link to at that price would be very tempting.

[stardust steve]

Great info everyone :thumbsup:
saves me asking these same questions:thanx:

[Langaandy]

im looking at buying a 550d in a few weeks and it with a single lense is $670.

At the moment im getting good pics using a compact canon just as single pics and have a really good moon pic somewhere that was shot using the sport burst mode which is 4 photos in 4 seconds or something like that. used that 3 times and then as i dont have an astrocompiler program i had to use a few hours to stack them in photoshop. still looks good but ill upload once it has been properly stacked.

[Studsy]

Thanks for all your help everyone! This thread has sure given me some things to think about.

I'm thinking i'll start off with the mount i have and just purchase a guiding setup + DSLR and see how i go from there. So if anyone has any cheap DSLR's/autoguiding setups, let me know!

[NorthernLight]

Hi Studsy,

it would suprise me if you find an autoguider port (ST4 - looks like ethernet port) on the CG-5.

But if it is a version that has GOTO build in and a serial connected handcontroller you may be able to send commands to the mount via EQDir and Ascom. Otherwise you will need first and foremost a new mount. Even if you drift align for two hours and are spot on the SCP the PEriodic error of your mount will ruin even 30sec exposures at your SCT's native 2m focal lenght.

However, with DSLR and a lens up to 50mm (like Canons nifty fifty for about 150 bugs) you can take very good deepsky images with several minutes exposure on your (pol alligned) mount. The shorter the lens, the more forgiving forgiving is pol alignment and PE. Widefield imaging is very rewarding! You need darker skies though as the intake of light pollution increases drastically with short fl', gradients become an issue as well. But its a lot easier to take your cg-5 (i use a cg-4) and a Dslr for a 1.5h ride then it would be to wait until you can afford buying all the other gear. And visually your C8 shoul be quite pleasing.

Give it a go! You wouldnt believe how many DSO stuff becomes apparent in a 5x5 min exposure of Orion at 50mm.

Clear Skies!

[Tony_]

I use a 9.25 sct on a cg-5 mount and an unmodded 550d canon. I get reasonable photos with 90 x 30 sec exposures, although I tend to use a fairly high ISO. The cg-5 has an autoguide port but I haven't used it. To polar align I initially use a laser then the all star alignment on the hand control. I get very little drift over 1 hour (sometimes less than 1') - the limiting factor with the exposure time is the periodic error - you might get 1 minute exposures. I'm fairly new to this too (about 5 months) and there is a lot to learn with exposures and processing.
Anyway you will get some reasonable photos with your set up - but you need patience - it take about 30-45 minutes to set up with a good alignment.
I suggest you get a dslr and use the set up you've got - then save for a better mount. I will probably get a cgem next (if I can convince my wife). If I was single I'd probably have a house full of telescopes by now.

good luck!