Are you over the hill at 55 ??

[TrevorW]

Whats the general consensus here

I work for the Govt and I've been going for some higher level jobs (i've held higher level acting position is the past) I get to the interview stage and then the position goes to a younger far less experienced IMO person

On one I went for recently only two people including myself got through to the interview stage and yet a person

half my age (fact)
half my expereince (fact)
far less qualified (fact)
who works in the same area as I for the same length of time, and until 12 months ago at the same level until he was given a a higher level acting role
who is known on occcassions to be lazy and unreliable


got the position :question:

now the only things I could put it down to

were that

he'd do as led
he's likeable

now in the Govt you can't contest the outcome based on the appointed person only on the process

Is this me being paranoid or are you hindered by your age???

[renormalised]

No, you're not paranoid. I've encountered the same sort of rot before, myself. You don't have to be 55 to be treated like that. I've been told on a number of occasions that I was overqualified and/or too old for a job. Even though they're not supposed to do that, by law. Not that the government really takes any notice of any of the laws it makes. He got the job simply because he was younger than you, stupid and easily led. Despite his shortcomings, he'll be there a lot longer than you will and they can "guide" him into what they want him to be and do. You're less likely to put up with their BS simply because you have far more experience (especially life experience) and will say so if you feel or think they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Plus, they're most likely scared you're looking to take their jobs away from them, if the really big bosses see you're better than they are and actually make a smart decision to promote you, for a change. You're probably older and more experienced than your bosses and that's one thing they don't like...someone who can show them up or bring them to attention when they inevitably stuff things up because they're basically incompetent and should not be in the positions they're in (which seems to be the case with government jobs...promoted because they toe the line and "fit in").

Unfortunately, age and experience seems to be a not so highly sort after or well regarded asset these days. Hasn't been for a long time.

[leon]

It happens all the time, experience accounts for nothing, if you are young and have some tickets but have no idea of what your doing you will get the job, from a person that would be experienced and have no tickets.:sadeyes:

Its crap but once you are over 50 like me they don't want to know about it, :sadeyes: I have experienced this all the time, and basically have given up, by the way i,m over 62, and not needed any more.:shrug:

Its all good i just go traveling now.;)

Leon :thumbsup:

[issdaol]

A mate of mine who was one of the best Account Managers, always made his quota or better and his clients loved him was made redundant when one of the international businesses went bankrupt. He has been unable to get another role purely due to age.

Mainly the excuses are by hiring managers are that he wont be flexible or hungry enough to win business!!!

[Ric]

Nothing unusual there Trevor, it goes on all the time where I work.

Over the years I've been constantly overlooked for higher positions while I'm running circles around my directors who basically dont have a clue about what's going on.

I think they don't want me to move up or out as there is basically no one who can step into my position that has the historical knowledge that I have.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Although "ageism" is rife, I feel that the reason a lot, not all, people over 55 do not succeed is that they are relying on skills learned years before. I am a mature aged student at 58 and have always been involved in "life long" learning, mainly because I want to and not necessarily for work.

After being made redundant in 2008 I returned to full time study, as there wasn't much in the way of work around. Although it was tough to find a job, particularly because of my age, I did manage to find a great position, albeit part time, that I obtained purely because of my experience and qualifications.

But, generally, I have to agree; if you are over 50, and not young and pretty, you don't have much of a chance. :sadeyes:

[TrevorW]

True you must be prepared to continually learn there is no such saying "as you can't teach an old dog new tricks" in my data bank I still do come up with ways of changing and improving processes

[Barrykgerdes]

To get employment at any age you must have something to sell.
I applied for redundency when I was 54 and was refused point blank when some of my contempories got $100000 in redundency.

I hung around till 55 and then retired. ha! ha! they told me not to so I volunteered to work part time for two years then said that was enough. however I did a couple of stints on contract (making lots of dough).
Then they asked me to come back and run a project in Newcastle but I did not want to move and it was a little outside a comfortable commuting range so I said no. The project ended up with lots of problems because the people running it did not have the expertise or experience.

Barry

PS I am 77 now and still the "unofficial" maintence engineer for a plastics company. I just do the jobs that no one else can do these days and am a regular at the Xmas party.

[UniPol]

Teaching may be an exception to the rule. When I retired from teaching three years ago I thought that was it, live off my super, spend time in the garden, hobbies, small trips etc. My wife works two days a week as she likes it so much:shrug: so I thought I would apply for casual teaching positions in my local area mainly to supplement our income, save for overseas trips and of course, buy more astro gear. I had no trouble in finding teaching positions, in fact I have taught at least six months in each year since retiring and will be teaching in term 1 this year at a local grammar school. While I still have good health and a positive attitude to work not to mention the social aspects, I will continue to teach even though it can be very challenging these days. I am now 61 by the way.

[TrevorW]

Teachers are hard to get, good teachers even harder, especially male teachers

(ps: I work for the Education Dept (admin))

[jenchris]

61 is hardly old though is it?
I'm 60 next month and have been pouring concrete this last few days for my new obs.
I have been out of work for two years - which is kinda silly as I would have been cheaper and more effective than a fresh out of the box civil designer.

[Kevnool]

There is an old saying that goes " Its not what you know its who you know".
And it still goes on today.

Cheers Kev.

[icytailmark]

if your in a field where you can work for yourself then do it. You have the experience and im sure you have the contacts. My dad is 66 and he is a contractor. Works whenever he wants and gets lots of perks.

[Hagar]

Trevor I'm affraid from an employment point of view 55 is not over the hill it is burried underneath it. Experience is the only benefit younger people can see in us and that only holds true for your current job.

I work in the private sector and have seen it so many times but when challenged the reason is always something vague and unexplainable but never age.

[Bassnut]

I work for myself and have thought of hiring someone. I'd pick someone older with experience automatically. I'm actually puzzled why there is ageism with employment, I don't get it. If its common, surely there's a "good" reason for it, company's want to make a profit. Is really the way Carl describes, that cynical ?.

Eg, do older ppl want more pay, is that the problem?

[Stardrifter_WA]

In my experience, companies are reticent to employ older people because of health factors, as they may think that an older person may have problems that may prevent them from performing their job and may take time off. In some industries, this may be the case, however, research has shown that older people are actually more reliable. Probably because they are not as distracted as young people and are happy just to have a job. :D

[renormalised]

YMMV, Fred, but in my experience, yes.

[renormalised]

The thinking is the older person won't be in the job as long as the younger person (potentially), they won't want the same pay (they'll want more) or the young person won't get the same pay as the older person (based on experience and qualifications) and because of that experience and such, they're harder to "mold" and are more set in their ways and less easily "controlled" than younger people. Plus, due to their experience, if they're older and better qualified than the boss, they feel threatened by that older employee's possible future moves within their company (the bugger will end up with my job scenario). Younger ones resent the fact they can't get the jobs because the oldies already have them.

Funny thing is, most older people would just be happy to settle for what work they can get.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Too true Carl, well said. I agree that the older person probably has a lot less ambition, because he or she has been there, done that, and just wants to be able to work and feel useful. I am in that category! :)

[brian nordstrom]

:) Yep I turn 50 next year and have been passed over for the last 3 years for a cushy office job in a top 100 company , in the heavy engineering field , oil and gas . I was told point blank by the AU manager that I was to valuable running a work shop of now 30 boilermakers , pipe fitter and welders up here to move on up , :shrug: What !!! .
I kicked up a stink and word filtered to the shop floor and my guys were worried I might snatch it and leave . :D
Made my heart sing that did , as some were ready to follow me.
The next week I was asked to see the boss and he was eating " Humble Pie " as he thought I was really gonna leave .;)
I now earn more a year than most shiny asses in their air conn'd offices and have a shiny new 2012 Hilux 4x4 as a work wagon .. .
Some times if you are to good at your job that there is no one to fill your shoes ,
Brian.

[supernova1965]

NO there is always another hill :rofl:

[Bassnut]

Mmm, well I've found I have less time off now due to sickness than I did when I was younger, and the little experience I have with young temps is they are always chomping at the bit to move on to more pay and climb the ladder, are hence less reliable and easily distracted, always know better and can't mold to proven work methods, and are generally less likely to stick around than someone more mature.

But I take yr point, regular employers have experience in what works and hire accordingly I guess.

[Hans Tucker]

Sorry but I am of the opinion that age is not a factor when going for positions in government. I have worked for the Department of Defence for some time and I have found that applicants do not perform well at interviews, they fail to research the position they are applying for and are not prepared to provide adequate confident answers to the interview questions. Post interview you should have been provided with reasons for non selection and an opportunity to redress if you believe the selection process was not fair. In the private sector this may be different...just my 2 cents worth.

[ballaratdragons]

Fortunately there are some companies that prefer to hire elders!

The last company I worked at (a French Chemical Company - 'Imerys Minerals') will ONLY hire people over 30. Many of the staff out there are in their late 60's and early 70's.
My next door neighbour is approaching his 80's and still drives a tip truck for them.
He quit about 2 years ago but they found that everyone they hired couldn't match his daily tally so they talked him into returning and now pay him almost double to stay!

They claim that experience has shown them that those younger than 30 don't stay long, have lots of sickies, demand more pay, and complain all the time. So they just don't hire them.

And Bunnings make it public knowledge that they prefer over 35's and often hire retired or semi-retired people (especially Tradespeople).

As a side note: Unfortunately, almost 4 years ago I was injured when I was working at 'Imerys' and they claim it was just me getting old so they didn't have to pay me for the injuries received on the job.
They talked me into resigning ( :argue: ), and I have been on a stupid disability pension since :mad2: :cloudy:
So while they are hiring the elderly, they certainly don't look after them :mad2:

[TrevorW]

You cannot contest the person selected only the process,
in this particular case I know for a fact that I have far more quals and experience than the person selected and the selection panel also knew this but sometimes if your face doesn't fit you've got buckleys :thumbsup:

[deejayvee]

There's also an addendum to that saying:

"It's not what you know, and it's not who you know. It's what you know about who you know." ;)

[AndyK]

Hahaha ... I'm the network administrator so I know everyone's nasty little secrets. They know I know ... so I'll probably be here until I'm 100 ... :)
Never mess with the network guy.

[ZeroID]

The joke is they want to move the retirement age up to 67 or whatever. So what are we all going to do waiting for that to happen, still be on the unemployment or whatever is available.
I'm nearly 63 so won't affect me much but I'm not happy with my current situation but I see no alternative till my retirement.
The agism wall is a reality for sure despite skills and experience.

[risingmoon]

I know just what you mean. I work as a frame maker in Liverpool and also on the DSP and I am 56 on Sunday, We had a young female 19 working with us but every 5 minutes she was on FB and didn't care a rats about her work until the boss got fed up. On the other hadn we "almost" oldies have to be careful. I turned up for work on Sunday and wondered why the gate were locked??? It didn't occur to me at the time and I thought I was losing it. But I am an old world worker. Royalty, hard work and honesty are my game.

[Stardrifter_WA]

There is a saying that I heard when studying Human Resources Management; People hire people most like themselves! I have found this bias to be fairly true. If you take the extra care and make yourself look like you belong you may have a better chance.

I use to always go to interviews dressed in a suit, until I discovered that this practice isn't always the best. Before one interview, I thoroughly researched the company and took particular notice of dress codes. Cut a long story short I went to the interview in jeans and a nice casual shirt and I was offered the job, although I didn't take it. Why? Because I looked like the rest of the people working there.

In another position that I had an interview for I found out that the CEO was a Collingwood supporter, so I wore a Collingwood pin. The interview turned into a discussion on football. Yes, I was also offered this job, but had already found another.

Make yourself look like you belong, you will have a better chance. :)

[koputai]

I used to work for the Government, 4 years for the power generator, and 9 at a big white entertainment building.

I was made redundant from the big white building, but funnily enough another guy took the position I had held. Although he had a different surname, it turned out he was the husband of the head of the HR department.

I occasionally work at govt places (as a supplier) and the levels of wasted humans is amazing. Every office has six people in it, and four of every six are sitting on their r's with their feet on the desk surfing the net.

Government jobs could easily be cut in half, those left would only have to do what they're meant to do, and things would work better than they do now.

Maybe we should just privatise ALL government departments.

Cheers,
Jason.

[Stardrifter_WA]

They cannot make you redundant and then put someone back into the same position. It is against most work laws, as far as I am aware.

[TrevorW]

I'd have to agree I worked in private sector for 30 odd years prior to joining the Govt by default and I see this waste daily

[Terry B]

Not such a problem in the medical field. Depends on demand and supply I suppose.

[John0z]

Definitely - 55 is over the hill. Seriously though you are only half-way. 2 years ago, I ruptured my Achilles tendon (Oct 2009). In Dec 2009 I was asked to go in for a meeting - my wife had to drive me, since I was still in a cast and on crutches. They told me that my job was no longer there and to look for another job. This was three weeks before Christmas - can you imagine trying to get job interviews and showing up on crutches? Anyway, I got retrenched in Jan 2010 and just got some project management work for a previous employer. I am still at it, but the work is very slow - this is in Europe so it means evening and night time meetings.

The advantage was a reasonable redundancy package and I have lots of time during the daytime to muck about with the garden, making odd things on the lathe and mill and playing badminton.;)

[TrevorW]

I've noticed that at work some of the oldie long time public servants are entrenched in their higher level positions biding their time until retirement because the State Govt will not do redundancies and when they rarely offer them they are not mandatory.

One chap I know who is a few years older than me has been in the PS for nearly 30 years is on $100,000 a year held the same position for several years comes in at 7:00 because he only lives 5 minutes from the office and goes home at 3:30 regularly and is forever taking holidays.

In my 7 years with the PS I've held 7 different acting roles with 7 different JDF's. The only reason I want a different position as I'm bored shxtless in my substantive role, actually believe it or not I really don't care about earning more money I just want a more challenging role, if it wasn't for my wife having MS I'd leave the flexible working hrs and security of the PS.

[koputai]

Too true Trevor. I have a friend who has a govt job in Canberra, he has a countdown timer on his computer desktop that counts down until he can retire. He's been watching it for a couple of years now, and he's only 40! He sits there in his unfulfilling job, just taking the pay and waiting until he gets paid out. What a terrible way to live your life!

Cheers,
Jason.

[overlord]

i see, so they are not allowed to be ageist, but u buy a new car?

:D

[Hans Tucker]

How many people today continue to review their CV and their skill set on a periodic basis to ensure they still can compete in the job market. I see a lot of stories where people have worked at a job for 20-30+ years and when the company decides to down size or retrench workers or offers redundancies these people are caught out.

If you are in an industry like IT or Sales/Marketing you realise you have to keep upgrading your skills to remain competitive in these industries. I remember a friends dad worked in the construction industry as an Engineer and use to send out his CV/Resume every 2 years to see if he was still employable and had the right skills for the changing industry.

[Matt Starwave]

Over the hill can be defined when you grab your point and shoot scope far more often than any other.

[Hagar]

I am starting to get a bit worried. I have been with the one company for 40 years on 27th January. I have done a lot of jobs with them during this period but fear a more senior position I would want to get will not appear before I disappear either permanently or just from the job. All young people working here now, age seems to be a pre-requisite.
Shift work is getting hard, after 30 years on shift you would think you get used to it but it doesn't get any easier. Retirement looks good but interest rates need to increase a bit first.

[astronut]

You are "over the hill" at/after 55.......but it's also the best view..
Toward 55, all there is...is hill!!:lol:

[Cloudyagain]

To look at this from a different angle, I know now that if I have a big day in the garden then the next day is going to be a Voltaren day. I am beginning to realise that I am over the top of the hill, probably a good way down the other side.

How are others that are 55 or over placed for aches and pains?

Neale.

[TrevorW]

Same here if I play soccer the next 2 days I suffer for it the joints are not like they use to be

[Hagar]

Lets just say, Celebrex and voltaren aren't bad but Vioxx had them beat.

Only the joints Trevor. You are lucky.

[AdrianF]

I have just lost my job with the govt here in qld due to down sizing. I am 56.
I have been trying to get a job in the mines or csg as a tradesman, I have 37 years experience in my trade but the companies prefer younger people to us "oldies". I have managed to find work in my trade, with a contractor, but I keep getting compared to the younger tradesman in the company.

Adrian

Voltaren is my friend

[dannat]

At our bike races today (melb nth vets) there was a photo finish, one of the guys at the finish line line conceded that the young bloke won: thing was the guy who won was 65 & the guy talking was 70 :D