Colour on the orion nebula?

[Vegeta]

Hi guys, I recently observed the orion nebula for the first time since i got my new 12" dob and i've noticed the nebula was mostly green. It was clearly evident. I got my brother to come and confirm it but he said there was little to no colour. I asked someone about it but they just told me i'm an idiot for even suggesting it and that I should not be able to even spot subtle colours unless i had something 25" or larger. Can anyone else see colour on the orion nebula? Or am i just going crazy? :screwy:

Also, has anyone used the Baader Hyperion eyepieces? If so can you tell me what their like

-Bintel BT302 12" dob
-Plossl 15mm
-Plossl 9mm
-Televue 2x barlow
-Bintel widefield 26mm EP
-Orion Edge-on Planetary 6mm

[Poita]

I prefer the ES eyepieces over the hyperions personally.

[bert]

I'm not sure of the mechanism, but it is common. Something to do with our eyes sensitivity to green/luminosity.

I have seen the same in a 24 inch dob.

[Blue Skies]

Green is the easiest colour to see in low light, and I often see green in the Orion Nebula, so you are not imagining things. If you want to see pink or red in Orion then a 16" or larger is helpful, but not foolproof, it will still be very subtle colour.

People's eye vary in how sensitive they are, and what colours they see - I always tell the story that it took me a year to see colours in the stars. I kept reading about how different stars were yellow or orange or red, but they all looked white to me. But after a year of observing and training my eye to was was 'normal' for the sky I started to see the different shades.

[Vegeta]

thanks for the reply, i'll try and get other people to see it and ask them if they see the colours too. I do live in a semi-rural area where the sky glow is not that bad, so this may also contribute.

[barx1963]

With faint stuff like nebs and stars everyones eyes see colours a bit differently. Many double star observers report very different colour contrasts even in quite bright doubles, so variation in sensitivity to the colours of M42 is not surprising. I have only positively seen colour once when I distinctly saw shandes of green, aqua green and even a little pink on a night of exceptional clarity in my 12".

Malcolm

[RobF]

Have a read of this and you'll realise why you're seeing a bit of green and no red. (but also why everyone with a camera gets worried if their M42 isn't "normal" and showing lots of red! :))

http://starizona.com/acb/ccd/advtheorycolor.aspx

Seriously though, it's really tough for any astrophotography to be "realistic" because of these difficulties. Many people argue it's just "technical art". Hope this helps with your visual interpretation of nebs too.

[ballaratdragons]

Ibrahim, no you aren't going crazy. Your friends may be though :lol:

I see the pale Pastel Green in M42 really easy in my dark skies through my 12" Dob, and on a really good night I can also see a slight pastel pink tinge, which makes me weird according to Rob's link :P

But yes, it is there and it can be seen :thumbsup:

[RobF]

Surely not "weird" Ken :)
Actually this discussion reminds me of lunchtime school conversations yonks ago. "How do I know what I call green isn't what you call red", etc, etc ;) :D
Then again, of course if you see green for what I call red, you'd still call it red (agrgghhhhh!!!)

[ballaratdragons]

Ahhhh, yes, but I'm not seeing the pink where he would see green.
I'm seeing pink as well as the green :lol:

I see the pale green in the wings of M42 like a lot of people do, but I also see pink in the interior section.
It is very pale pink, but I see it :thumbsup:

[bmitchell82]

You definately can see the colour of the great orion neb, thats just how bright it is burning! In extremely dark skies closer to the middle of aust i have seen what you are talking about Ken in the 254 newt of mine.

Its definately that aqua bluey green colour but there are parts that arnt really blue but that tinge of pink. Then again I have really good night vision and generally walk around at night time in the dark. I then sit my son to the ep and he says he can see two different colours and he isn't just saying that because i said it because without saying anything i just asked him what colours he could see if any. Ahhh to have 7 year olds eyes mmmmmm.

Brendan:thumbsup:

[Poita]

I see colour under dark skies with my 10" SCT, I am lucky enough to have really good night vision. My 10yr old daughter often sees colour in Orion, but in our backyard you usually only get grey. So you're not going nuts.

[The_bluester]

I tend more towards calling M42 pale blue, in my case with a C9.25 my first thought was "Wow, blue"

Having said that, on the weekend while it was still fairly low it looked very washed out and grey.

[ZeroID]

I'm sure I have seen both green and tinges of pink under good skies through the 10". A cold southerly through here can give very clear and stable air. Can make it a joy when it happens.
You're ok, you are not delusional.... :thumbsup:

[Vegeta]

Thanks for all the help guys :)

[Octane]

A few years ago I saw M42 through Zane Hammond's 25" Dobzilla.

I remember seeing the mottled pink and green and exclaiming that it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.

That night was magic!

H

[rainwatcher]

Hi, when looking at Orion it will appear mainly blue or a little green depending on the night with bright white and white blue core. You will not see the Ha red with the human eye. Photos will bring out the red if the camera does not have an IR filter. As for needing something bigger than 25" wow. Using various eyepieces will bring out the subtle colours but in Orion these will be predominantly subtle variations of blue and white.

[Rodstar]

Hi all,

When I used to observe with a 10" SCT I would need pretty dark skies to notice a hint of green. Under suburban skies, M42 was grey.

The move to 20" revolutionised the view. Under suburban skies M42 is a bright green even in poor conditions. Under dark skies, the core of M42 remains green, but the outer reaches are noticeably pink, and even peachy.

Some observers see a blue tone rather than green when observing M42. This seems to reflect personal perception differences.

There are several other bright nebulous objects which exhibit colour in the Mary Rose. For example, M8 is pinkish - but not at all greenish. The Running Man, near M42 definitely has a pinkish hint as well under dark skies.

Colours are also evident in some planetary nebulae. One I particularly love is IC418, which has an orange tinge. Many brighter PNe have a greenish or bluish tinge, depending on the perception of the observer. I see aqua and lilac in the Saturn nebula.

[SkyViking]

Absolutely, I see M42 as green with a hint of pink too on good nights.

[gary]

I am also one of those people who perceive the green and pink colours of M42
most readily. Even with an 8" SCT, it is the first thing I tend to notice.

But even when using larger apertures, such as a 20" or 25" scope, I am aware that
some even highly experienced observers perceive no colours at all.

It possibly says something about varying human perception and the
phenomena of colour constancy.

As much as we take them for granted, it is always worth remembering that in
both a purely physical and philosophical sense, "colours" don't really exist in nature.
What we perceive as colour is predominantly taking place in the mind.

[Riley86]

From my inner city sydney skies I always see it as a dark green im 25 years old so it must be my youthful eyes, I think the older you are the harder it is to see the colours

[Pinwheel]

The colour negative spectrum is Blue to yellow, red to cyan & magenta to green. We know the human eye is prone to seeing Green stronger than red, so based on that knowledge, It's our eyes neutralizing the natural magenta colour of M42 because Green cancels Pink. The colour is there & this is why colour film works & why we can't see the pink other than a green cast.

You have all taken a photo with flouro light or mercury vapor light in the room. When you got your photo back it has GREEN cast yet when you took the photo the room looked white. This is the same effect.

Fact.:eyepop:

[dj gravelrash]

I was looking at M42 last week here in suburbia on the G Coast. My first ever nebula view through an 8inch dob borrowed from my Astro club. Could only see a sort of white gray. Still thought it was magic though but thats newbie enthusiasm for you lol.

[naskies]

Most of the red colour that you see in photos of the Orion Nebula is due to H-a light at 656 nm. The greenish tint comes from OIII light at 501 nm.

If you look at the response spectrum graphs of cone cells, you can see that our eyes are very insensitive to H-a light (maybe 10% of L cones only) whereas OIII light will stimulate all three types of cones (S, M, L) at much higher levels. This is also why our eyes are more sensitive to green light in general - look at the response levels to light in the 490-560 nm range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color

(scroll down to the "Perception" subsection and look at the graph with red, green, and blue lines)

[ballaratdragons]

Whatever the 'facts' say, the pale pink in the centre of the Pale green wings of M42 was obvious from the dark sky at Astro Camp on Monday night through Eric's SDM :thumbsup: