Need some help getting started

[Intergage]

Afternoon / Morning all,

I have only decided today that I am going to seriously look into Astronomy as a hobby. IT used to be my hobby but it is now my carree and has been for about 4 years now so I am in need of a hobby and I have ALWAYS loved going out and night and just looking up and wondering what the hell is out there.

What I have done today is read about 20 different "Starting Astronomy" and I recently came into a fair load of money so I have most properly jumped the gun here and already ordered A pair of cheap Saxon 20x80WP Waterproof Floating Binoculars and a Celestron Powerseeker 114EQ Reflector Telescope but at least I have them for when the time comes to use them I guess.

What I really need help with is where do I start to learn? All the stuff I read today was good, and helped out a lot but they all said "Don't go out and buy a high zoom scope and expect to see awesome sights" but none of them told me what I should be reading, learning, etc first.

I am also having trouble finding decent star maps (Sorry if any lingo is out here) as well, can anyone help me with that?

Thanks,

[jjjnettie]

Hi Matt, welcome to IIS.
The Bino's sound great, but the little telescope you ordered, I'm sorry to say, is a dud. The views through the binoculars will be far superior.
Is there any chance you can cancel that part of the order? Honestly, you will NOT use the little scope after using the binoculars.

[Intergage]

Hey, thanks for your reply and thanks for your advice.

I am surprised yet, don't doubt your advice.
I can cancel it hopefully tomorrow.. Hopefully I can get to them before they ship it off.

I'm still trying to grasp the concept of binocular being able to see things like far off moons etc.. Like I said in the OP I only started reading up and started learning today. I have a pair of crappy binocular at home I'm going to go out and test tonight with this map I found.

http://media.skyandtelescope.com/documents/GettingStartedSouth.pdf

Thanks for your help once again. :)

[esky]

What I did was get myself a couple of good books off Amazon to help me navigate the sky.

I bought "Turn Left At Orion" which is great for those who want to jump in and see great sights quickly and its designed for small scopes and binoculars,

"The Cambridge Star Atlas" which has 20 charts inside that covers the whole sky to magnitude 7, lists the Messier Objects, has moon maps, lays flat on your table and is easy to use under red light,

"Collins Stars & Planets" which is great for giving information about exactly what it is you are looking at. I've been into the hobby now for about 9 months and I don't think I'll need any more than these 3 books for quite a while. All up incl postage was about $100 from memory.

Any other question I have are usually answered quickly here as well.:thumbsup:

[barx1963]

Yeah Matt, I have to agree with JJJ on that one. These little EQ mounted scopes are IMHO the main reason we lose so many beginners.
If you are able to cancel it, please consider changing order to a dobsonian (see here http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Dobsonian/33/catmenu.aspx ) as big as you can afford and handle. 8" is an ideal size to start with. More aperture and easier to use than the little 114EQ.
The binos will give you fantastic views, though at 20x80 they will be quite heavy and will need a tripod to hold them up. I have a pair of 15x70 binos and I last about a minute hand holding them and can never get them steady.
Esky has given some excellent suggestions for books and guides. A good idea is see what astronomy mags your local newsagent get in. I am lucky as I can get Aust Sky and Telescope, Sky at Night(UK), Astronomy Now(UK) and Astronomy(US) and they are all excellent. The 2 UK ones are more beginner oriented so if you can get them do so. AS&T is absolutely worth getting as it is targeted to southern skies.
Malcolm

[Intergage]

Thanks heaps for the replies!

I will try and cancel it tomorrow morning and I hope I can. If you don't mind me asking, what is so bad about them? Just no clarity or just useless to use in general?

I just went out with some basic fairly low powered Bino's that I have had laying around ever sense I can remember and took a look at a few things. I am having very hard trouble confirming what I saw though.. If I list what I "think" I saw can someone tell me if I did or not? I'm in the north of Brisbane and I was looking north, north east. I believe I saw some part of Circlet from the north, north east at around 8:35, something from M42 from the East North East at around 8:55. Can someone confirm that?

Can someone tell me how to confirm what I think I spot, or some way to figure it out?

What I really need is something to read so I can learn what I'm saying / looking at I guess.. I'm currently looking into the books posted above. Thanks for that.

[jjjnettie]

The binos you ordered are fantastic. You'll love them. I agree with Malcom too, a good tripod and tripod adaptor is needed to get the most out of them. :) It doesn't take long to get shaky arms holding up the weight of that much glass. (I'd love to have a pair of binos that size )
It's the little scope that you will find disappointing.
It's aperture is only marginally larger than one half of your binos.!!
The only objects you will see through the scope are a hand full of nebulae, the brighter planets, a couple of galaxies and the moon.
With the 8 or 10" dob the night sky will open up like a smorgasbord. :)

[barx1963]

The little 114eq has a number of issues
Small aperture
Wobbly mount
EQ mount is hard to align for beginners
Hard to navigate using an EQ mount

There are other issues but those are the main ones. Sorry to be negative but I made the same mistake. When I switched from a 130mm eq2scope to an 8" dob was the best thing I did in astronomy.

Malcolm

[Intergage]

This community is seeming more and more pleasant with each reply. Thanks.
I'm going to cancel the order ASAP today for the scope. How much should I be spending on a decent scope do you think. I bought these from ozscopes. Anyone have a better supplier? These were the cheapest place I could find.

[jjjnettie]

We all have our personal preferences re. astro retailers.
I bought my first decent scope from Andrews Communications.
www.andrewscom.com.au
10" - $599
12" - $799
shipping to Brissie is usually around $70. They throw in a couple of eye pieces for that too. But I recommend you order a 2x barlow when you order the scope. That way you can get up close to to planets and moon.


wow, so cheap. I'm definitely going to have to buy myself another big scope.

[jjjnettie]

You'll pick up the lingo soon enough. You just need to start hanging out at a few star parties. LOL
It's all part of the learning curve. :)
Have you looked to see where your closest Astro Society is?
What part of Brissie are you from?

[Intergage]

I'm from the Northside, near Sandgate / Redcliffe.
I found one from a database somewhere on the net and went to the site and it had been shut down due to insurance costs.

Once my Bino's come I'm going to go up to the west side of Mt Coot-tha and hopefully on the weekend coming or the weekend after I'm going up north to Esk or somewhere like that to do some star gazing.

[Intergage]

Thanks for the suggestions mate, I have downloaded the books to give them a quick gloss over before I go out and buy them.. I am currently reading the intro to Cambridge star atlas. I think I will be buying this book this weekend and hopefully the other one if I think I will understand it. I might also look for a beginner astronomy book to teach me the lingo, and the ins and outs of amateur astronomy so I'm not bothering everyone here ever 20min ! :)

[jjjnettie]

:) I grew up in Brighton.

SEQAS have Urban Viewing nights at Barrett Reserve, Brackenridge on the first and 3rd Sunday of every month. :)

http://www.seqas.org/

[Intergage]

Thanks for that JJJ.. Going to email one of them now to see what the deal is.

I wouldn't feel right just rocking up one Sunday lol.

Haha really? I grew up in Deagon. You still live around the area?

[jjjnettie]

I'm in Kilcoy now. My brother is still in Brighton though.
You went to Sandgate High? I went to Nashville. What years did you attend?

Don't be shy about attending astro events. Without exception, I've found Astro folk to be the most friendly bunch of people ever. They love to share their passion, they love to share the knowledge. :)

[Intergage]

Yeah, Sandgate High for me lol. I'm only 21 so only been out for a few years.
You go to Kilcoy for Astronomy or for some other reasons?

I'm hoping you are correct. Because the best way I learn is by doing and someone showing me how to do it and answerer questions I have.
Very helpful when someone answers my question on here but when someone can sit next to me and show me while explaining the technical side of it to me then I will learn 200% faster then reading and self learning!

[jjjnettie]

We have an Astronomy Chat room that you can join too. Sort of but not quite affiliated with IceInSpace. :)
There are people in there most nights, and we even sometimes talk astronomy. It could be a big help for you if you need instant answers to questions.
http://www.darkskyau.com/chat/chat/flashchat.php#
Just type in a user name, no password needed.

[Suzy]

Hi Matt and welcome! :welcome:
You have received fantastic advice above.
Just be very quick in cancelling that order because Ozscopes ships fast- I know from experience in having to cancel an order.
Sirius Optics (http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/) are in Underwood, Brisbane, why don't you give them a go- it'll save all that money in shipping (I got my 10" dob from them and they're fantastic to deal with- very helpful).

Here's a few tips to get you started on the theoretical side of things so when you get your scope you will have some knowledge up your sleeve.


1) Learn the brightest stars in the sky.
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/constellations/extra/brightest.html (http://www.astro.wisc.edu/%7Edolan/constellations/extra/brightest.html)
This will help when it comes to finding constellations. Also, soon enough they'll end up feeling like friends.:D Then they go away and you'll become sad :(, then when they return, you'll be jumping with excitement like a kid. :party: Okay, maybe I just do that..:shrug::ashamed:


2) Learn the greek alphabet (in lower case).
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/lan.../answers.shtml (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/language/greek/label/lowercase/answers.shtml)
This will help you read maps better. ;)
And possible make you look smarter to other people:question::D


3) Learn how to measure the sky in degrees using your hand.
http://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/200...ing-your-hand/ (http://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/measuring-distances-in-degrees-in-the-sky-using-your-hand/)
Don't let neighbours see you, those hand gestures could mean something else to them. :face::argue:


4) Get some computer software.
Both my dobs purchased thru Ozscopes and Sirius (Saxon) came with Starry Night software. This programme will help teach you the constellations as the move around the sky and make no sense :rolleyes: and will also give you a zillion targets to keep you happy with. You can also measure (by dragging the mouse on the object) the angular distance between a star and the object. Then proceed using hand measurements mentioned above when looking at the sky. Otherwise, download Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/) (but I find Starry Nights much better).


5) A Planisphere.
Most definitely as you can take it outside with you (unless you get a software programme on a lappy that you can take outside). If you choose the latter, be sure to use low powered battery mode so the screen isn't so bright or better still, cover it with red cellophane paper so it doesn't ruin your dark adaptation.
The planisphere will teach you the sky no matter what time of day or time as the stars rotate around. Remember when I said it can be confusing, well this will definitely help.
I got mine from here (http://www.austskyandtel.com.au/BooksProducts/tabid/643/language/en-AU/Default.aspx) from Australian Sky & Telescope for $14.95 and love it.
I've gone one step further with it and have cut out using post-it notes (the sticky strip), little arrows, which I can peel off and stick on zillion times over for the point of interest on the disc. :D Comes in handy for marking places on maps in my books too!
I wonder if I can get rich selling sticky arrows :question:


6) Refer to this website- monthy.
Southern Sky Watch (http://home.mira.net/%7Ereynella/skywatch/ssky.htm). Every month it tells you what goodies to look for in the sky for that month.


7) Absolutely get Australian Sky & Telescope magazine. This too will tell you what's in the sky for that month. It also has a monthly article for binocular viewing and gives a target every month, along with how to find it, as well as a monthly star chart.


8) Read up on observing tips.
Visit the Observational and Visual section (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8) of our forum. While you're there, look at the top of the page- there's a sub forum there called "Observation Reports" (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8). Plenty to learn here - read, read, read. You'll get some great ideas from here as to what objects interest you that you want to chase down as well as how they appear through a telescope.
I have supplied further reading/links on observing tips towards the end of this post.

9) Go to your local star party.
Ron (AstroRon) holds a monthly star party in Cambroon each new moon period (providing the weather plays ball). His next party is this Saturday night. http://http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=83245 (http://http//www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=83245)


10) How to determine seeing and transparency
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-196-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../63-196-0-0-1-0.html)




Post #2 will be continued as I have gone past the word/post restrictions,:rolleyes: so I have broken the post into two parts. Imagine that! :lol: I've finally excelled myself in word usage. :P

[Suzy]

Continuation of previous post...


Here are some books which I highly recommend.
For binocular and telescope viewing respectively. Note that the book (which Malcom suggested-Collins, "Stars & Planets" is also listed below.


For Binocular Viewing....


- Touring the Universe Through Binoculars (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Touring-Universe-Through-Binoculars-Philip-Harrington/9780471513377) by Phil Harrington.
I haven't read this book but have heard many reviews and recommendations on it.


- Observing the Night Sky with Binoculars (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Stephen-James-OMearas-Observing-Night-Sky-with-Binoculars-Stephen-James-OMeara/9780521721707)by Stephen James O'Meara.
This is an observing book which goes a bit deeper than Heavens Above. It also helps you find the objects using your hands to measure your way across the sky.

I've attached some pics here for you...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100422&thumb=1&d=1315729652 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100422&d=1315729652)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100423&thumb=1&d=1315729652 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100423&d=1315729652)


- Heavens Above (http://home.st.net.au/%7Edunn/heavensabove/) by Robert Bee (specific to the southern skies).
Highly recommended to start out with.


Some Useful Links for Binocular Observing:

The Messier project through binoculars done by our member, Faith Jordan.
http://www.fjastronomy.com/?page_id=429


A couple of my own binocular observation reports...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...r+observations (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=71992&highlight=binocular+observations)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ight+centaurus (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=73786&highlight=night+centaurus)


Binoculars- A Basic Guide for Astronomy...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-374-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../63-374-0-0-1-0.html)


How to make a binocular chair...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-382-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../63-382-0-0-1-0.html)


How to make an Parallelogram...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-617-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../63-617-0-0-1-0.html)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-376-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../63-376-0-0-1-0.html)




For Telescope Viewing...

- Stars & Planets (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Stars-Planets-Ian-Ridpath/9780691135564) by Ian Ridpath & Wil Tirion
One of my favourite hard working books. Covers general astronomy at the beginning of the book and the rest is dedicated to maps with the facing page to each map detailing objects of interest and the astrophysics. It will tell you what the spectral classes of the stars are, nice doubles to look at, and each object of interest nicely detailed. Beautiful pics accompany them. Each constellation has its own map- very easy to use. Great book for beginners. Even though it's more specific to telescopes, many of the objects and stars in it are viewable through binos or the naked eye. I highly recommend this book also.

I've attached some pics here for you...

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100424&thumb=1&d=1315729565 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100424&d=1315729565)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100425&thumb=1&d=1315729565 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100425&d=1315729565)




The Night Sky Observers Guide. (http://www.willbell.com/HANDBOOK/nitesky.htm)
The Night Sky Observers Guide series is a great book. It's quite intense and covers a ton of deep sky objects with finder charts for everything, sketches on lots of objects, and observation notes as to what can be see through different sized apertures.
At the beginning of each constellation it gives a large table listing of binocular objects and stars of interest. It's a hard cover book with a whopping 504 pages!

There are a lot of dso's in this book more specific to larger scopes, but there's still plenty of stuff in it for 8-10" scopes, not a lot for 4-6" scopes, and pretty much favors 12-14" and in particular 16" scopes.
I love this book and wouldn't be without it.. a book I will grow into as I get more experience. Many of us on here own this book/series.

Our own Paddy has done a wonderful review of it here in this forum.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/46-627-0-0-1-0.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../46-627-0-0-1-0.html)


Atlas of the Southern Night Sky. (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=atlas+of+the+sout hern+night+sky&search=search)
Another thick and fantastic book. Beautiful colour photographs, descriptions of the objects, followed by a map on the facing page.
Paddy has done a review of this book also (good work Paddy!)
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/bookreviews.html (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../bookreviews.html)


Sky & Telescope's Pocket Sky Atlas. (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Sky-Telescopes-Pocket-Sky-Atlas-Roger-Sinnott/9781931559317)
Being spiral bound, it's easy to handle on your lap by the scope as it stays open. It's filled with a ton of goodies that go deeper than "Collins Stars & Planets", but for a first book, I would recommend the latter first because the pocket atlas book is mainly maps. It even has a Telrad circle to use with it's maps.
It's so cheap at only $20 from the Book Depository in the UK (free shipping!) - great value!


Deep Sky Companions: The Messier Objects, by Stephen O'Meara. (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780521553322/Deep-Sky-Companions-The-Messier-Objects)
It's an observing book and tells you all the little details to go look for, and also a little black & white pic (for every object) of what to expect to see out of your telescope. Lots of sketches too- so you can really get a nice sample of what to expect at the eyepiece. He observed with only around 4 inches of apperture, so everything he says is within reach for most of us. Some astro physics are given on each object too, and basically its about a page per object. It is a hard working companion of mine.



And for both:
A general book that covers all forms of observing - naked eye, bino & telescope....
Astronomica (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Astronomica-Watson/9781921209734)
I mention this book because it just covers so much. General astronomy is covered well, and towards the back section, a large part of this book is dedicated to maps and objects, listing objects of interests that are available be it naked eye, binoculars or through a telescope. Beautiful pics accompany them. For the weight and information covered in this book, it is well worthy of it's price. I Highly recommended it- great coffee table book also.


In summary (regarding books)...
I doubt that you'll find one book that will do it all. Like me, you'll probably find that you'll wind up with several books and maps. Some books cater for the brighter objects and are quite easy to read and navigate thru, others are intense, some books cater more for "observing", i.e. more a teaching guide on techniques and what to look for in objects (such as Stephen O'Meara's Deep Sky Objects- Messier Objects- fantastic book, and Hartung's), some books list the astrophysics and objects of interest better or clearer than others, etc. I have lots of books/maps- each used for different observations.



Some Useful Links for Telescope Observing:

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/astronomy/astro21/sandt/startright.html

http://www.asignobservatory.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=65

http://www.fjastronomy.com/?page_id=1092

ww.astro-tom.com/messier/messier_files/observing_tips.htm (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/ww.astro-tom.com/messier/messier_files/observing_tips.htm)

http://http://www.visualastronomy.com/2008/01/ten-essential-astronomy-accessories.html (http://http//www.visualastronomy.com/2008/01/ten-essential-astronomy-accessories.html)

http://http://sites.google.com/site/southernastronomer/ (http://http//sites.google.com/site/southernastronomer/)
You can't go by this!!!!
Rob H from our forum has made these charts- they are brilliant & many of us use them. Print them off and pop them into plastic sleeves and file them in a ring binder.




:confuse3:Hmmmm... for now, I think that's it, from me anyhow. What I've already suggested will keep you busy for a while before you get your scope.:astron:

[Intergage]

Wow Suzy (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/member.php?u=8295)!! Thank you HEAPS for that post.. Did you type all that out yourself?

I believe that should be it's own page or at least sticky! :P

I gave it a quick run over and found 100% of it useful!

Thanks heap!

[Screwdriverone]

Hey Grats Suzy!

2000 quality posts and counting.....

(where is my party page? :sadeyes: sniff....)

Cheers

Chris

[Intergage]

Got bad news for anyone that cares. They couldn't stop the shipping of the scope and I got it today...

Set it up and I hate the mount already.. The scope seems OK but yeah. I can understand why people will get frustrated at it and throw it out.

[barx1963]

Hey Matt
Sorry to hear that yoiu couldn't cancel it. Have a bit of a play with it, it will male you appreciate a dob more when you get one.

[Intergage]

Well, that is true..

It will do for learning how to read star maps star hop etc I guess.

[jjjnettie]

:( such a shame.
Did the binoculars arrive??

[Intergage]

jjj, yep.. too bad it's meant to be raining and cloudy for the next few days -.-

I do LOVE the Bino's though.. need a tripod because they are H-E-A-V-Y!!
Got to wait a couple of weeks before I can pick up a tripod.. going to get a decent one.

[jjjnettie]

Yay for binos!!
I use mine heaps. Love lazing back and just touring the night sky with them.
oh oh, I don't know if anyone has told you, you can purchase through IIS, the year book, Astronomy 2012. It's THE must have ephemeris.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=81527&highlight=astronomy+2012

[brian nordstrom]

:) Hi Matt , I started with a pair of 8x40 binos years and years ago , mowed laws, washed cars for 1 year to buy these and loved them ,
I was full on learning the sky and how it moved , fun times !;)
A friends father took pity on me and fabricated a bracket to mount my binos on an old painters easel they had , wobbled something terrible ,,, :eyepop: but better than hand held and those 8x40s on that easel showed me jupiters moons , his cloud bands , and saturns rings for the first time :hi: countless deep sky objects I was learning there names . I cant for the life of me remember the brand name and should never had sold them for a 60mm department scope !!:sadeyes: .Wish some one had told me the mistake!
But now my love of the night sky is as strong as ever and I work hard and own a few nice scopes ,
So Matt as every one here has said , get Bino's and learn .
that way it will become a hobbie for life.:)
Brian.

[Intergage]

Taking the bino's and scope to Dakibin tonight to my girlfriends place.. If the sky is clear going to take it out to the school oval right behind her house or go up north a little bit to the bush somewhere and take a look1 :)

[ZeroID]

Hi Matt, :welcome:
I know the wee 114 is not a serious scope but you would be surprised how much you can see in it even in suburban skies and it will make you appreciate a bigger scope. It could also be converted quite easily to a small travel dob when you don't have room for a big scope to go. I also modifed the thick spider vanes on mine to a much smaller profile which improved viewing no end and regard it as my experimental setup. But then again I only paid $50 for it secondhand.
I also mount mine on the EQ6 mount when I can't be bothered setting the 10" up and intend on using it with webcam for planetary imaging later. It is light enough that I could carry it on the EQ6 with the 10" as well so more things to play with. It's all part of the learning curve, enjoy ! :D

>Suzy, that was an entire course in Astronomy in two posts !! Where do you get all this stuff ?? I've flagged it for further investigation later, bits I didn't know about. Thanks again ...!! :thumbsup:

[brian nordstrom]

:) Matt ,m lucky you .
Its cloudy and stormy here up north , the build UP . 5 months of Monsoons . :thumbsup: Go for it . as I said a hobby of a life time . with a Jupiter , saturn and mars .
;)
Hope you enjoy .
Brian..