Canon 5D Mark II

[iceman]

I really, really want one.

Fred let me have a play with his up at IISAC2011, and it's a pleasure to use. ISO3200 and almost no noise!
It helped that it had his 24mm f/1.4 lens on as well, but it's so sensitive, large field of view.

I was tossing up between:
1. Getting the stage zero dolly gear to do motion timelapses (~$1000+)
2. Getting a 5D Mark II (~$2300+)
3. Getting an ultrawide lens for my 40D (~$800+)

I was tempted to go with #1, but the extra hassle, setup time etc, is not what I want right now. I want to get out and shoot.

#2 will motivate me to get out and shoot and take my photography to a new level, I hope. I know a good camera doesn't instantly make a good photographer, but I hope i'm already comfortable with the basics :)

#3 will give me some new perspective on some shots. Using Chris' 10-22 up at IISAC, it was nice to have such a wide field of view - could really get up close on some subjects and still have the sky and everything else in the FOV.

I'm pretty settled on getting the 5D Mark II now, but need to look at the costs. Not only will I need the camera body, but also a 12V power adapter, and a 240v power adapter.

My intervalometer will work fine on it, but i've only got one lens that will fit it. Luckily it's a good one though (24-105mm L). It's a shame it's only f/4 though. So I'll probably need to get a wide and/or faster lens for timelapses, and eventually a long lens too - 200mm f/2.8 or something. Big bucks :/

I can sell one of my 40D's (probably the modded one) because my wife wants to start learning a bit of DSLR photography and she can use my 40D and Sigma 17-70mm. But that's only going to get me ~$400.

hmm, hard to justify when there's so much else I could be spending money on :)

Sorry for the Monday morning essay. :)

Anyway, any thoughts? Convince me one way or the other?

[avandonk]

My only advice is that ANY lens wide open on a full frame will show aberrations in the corners at fast apertures. The L lenses aberrations are just less than others but still noticeable with stars. All have to be stopped down to about f/4 or slower depending on the quality of the lens.

Even my super Tele Canon 300mm F2.8 is finally 'perfect' for stars at the corners at f/3.6 with exterior aperture.

Shorter focal lengths just cannot have both fast speed and be aberration free and usually need to be stopped down.

The good news is that the Canon 24-104mm F4L is very good wide open on a full frame at all FL's. The other good thing, wide open at f/4 there are no iris blade diffraction spikes.

As a dedicated astrophotographer I completely understand the dilemmas of balancing needs and wants.

Hope this helps a bit Mike.

The Canon 5D Mark II is the only real choice of DSLR for low light photography.

Bert

[Octane]

Onya, Mike.

If you can hold off a few months, the Mark III will be released and an onslaught of Mark IIs will hit eBay.

Bert, I might be wrong, but, I think Mikes wants it primarily to do timelapses, so the aberrations are of little concern.

Mike, can I be greedy and say that I had a small part in your purchase? I'd like to add you to my growing list of people whose wallets I've burned. :P

H

[hotspur]

Hi Mike.

Glad you really enjoyed using the 10-22 mm-I am amazed at the sharpness of that lens.

RE- Canon 5DII I have been giving thought to my next rung on the EOS ladder,as I just had a whoppa royalty payment-its either the 7D or 5D-(or a new fishing boat). I have looked very carefully at the type of photography I do and where I want to go-the birding photography might go up a notch with the 7D /400L combo-8 frames per second might improve some aspects of birding.

But,I have been very happy with the 50D/400L combo for birding/wildlife.I really feel the 7D for this type of work is'nt going to give me any more meaningfull improvement.The 5D2 is a whole new ball game-full frame,little noise-I'd like to explore many other aspects away from wildlife photography-and this is the machine to do it with-It can also still be useful for that too.-Particularly macro.

The 5D2-would suit me better than the 7D,and it would be just so,so good for astro too.I have held off a bit-there is talk of the 5D3,H seems to have his finger on the pulse-so it appears it may not be far away-if so-I will wait,as it will surly have the flip screen-after using it on the G12 and 600D this really make a major difference.

From our brief chats,sound like the 5D2 or 3 would really suit you well Mike,It also has tha chance to earn a bit of money for you-dedicated astro gear will not do that.-best wishes with it all-Chris

[bratislav]

I think Alex could question this statement, after winning so many international (and domestic) awards with his D700.

[acropolite]

5dII is an awesome camere Mike, the only thing you may miss is the pop up flash, i certainly did. You'll need also to factor some dollars in for a flash or two if you want to use fill flash for daylight portraits etc.

I wouldn't hold off waiting for the 5DIII, simply because that camera may not be a quantum leap forward and could even be inferior for low light, as the 50d was is in comparison to the 40d.

Another thing that the 5DII does extremely well is video, there are many people out there shooting major cinema productions on 5DII's.

Buy the 5DII, you'll not regret it. After seeing Freds timelapses with the 24mm f1.4 L I think that would be my lens of choice, as Bert says those lenses are not perfect, but for night shoots speed is everything.

Another lens that is highly regarded and reviewed as superior in every way is the Nikon 14-24 F2.8. Hunt down some reviews of the nikon lens, you'll find the 14-24 F2.8 out performs both Nikons and canons wide ff primes. Its useable on the 5DIi with an adapter as a manual lens, IIS member luigi (louis) from Buenos Aries uses that lens.

[naskies]

Mike, I can personally vouch for option #2 :) I bought mine about a year ago and it renewed my interest in photography big time. The image quality (paired with a good lens) is just amazing. The 24-105 f/4 IS is my preferred walk around lens on the 5DmkII. It may be worth also considering the 35mm f/1.4L - amazing lens as well, and it's just long enough to be useful as a general purpose lens without exaggerated wide angle effects. The 17-40 f/4L is good value with excellent colours (but not as sharp as the others - probably not noticeable for time lapses).

[Omaroo]

1) Don't talk to Humayun. All he ever does is cost me a fortune.

2) Do it Mike - there's no feeling quite like the scene depicted in this photo... :D

[DavidTrap]

I'm with H - wait for the 5D Mk3. You'll either be tempted by the new camera, or flooded with a choice of second hand models from those upgrading.

I'm waiting for the Nikon D800 - latest delay is the flooding in Thailand... Nothing wrong with the D700, however the sensor is 3-4yrs old now...

DT

[Octane]

I have to disagree about the statement re: the 17-40mm f/4L USM as being soft.

H

[mithrandir]

Coming from the Sony side of the fence, I'm trying to convince myself an a77 (body only) is a good buy. Full HD video, ISO16000, 12 fps with continuous autofocus, and 24 Mpx, but it is CMOS and doesn't take CF cards.

And they have a new 16-50mm constant aperture f2.8 zoom to go with my f2.8 11-16mm.

[gregbradley]

I have been holding off from buying a 5D11 and following rumours about 5D3 or 6D it may end up being called.

Judging the features in the new ID it could be a big step up from the 5D11. It would have to be as Nikon is a fierce competitor and the new D800 sounds awesome.

I don't know what price point a new 5D3 would be. I haven't followed new model release prices. But the Nikon seemed to be cheaper than expected.

Greg.

[DavidTrap]

D800 estimated to be ~$4K :(

DT

[naskies]

I should clarify... the 17-40 is a brilliant lens and excellent as a zoom (especially considering its price). I've had mine since 2005 and intend on using it until it falls apart in the distant future.

However, when I picked up my 24 f/1.4L II, I was immediately blown away by how much better it is - especially in the corners. The second comparison picture here shows what I mean with a real-world example:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-TS-E-24mm-f-3.5-L-II-Tilt-Shift-Lens-Review.aspx

I'm not saying that the 17-40 is bad... I'm saying that the 24 f/1.4L II is a really awesome lens :)

[Octane]

Of course, in most instances, a prime will obliterate a zoom with regards to image quality.

Having said that, 24mm is not 17mm -- I'd find it very, very difficult to lose those precious 7mm (for the landscapes that I shoot). :)

On the other hand, I'd be happy to go a 14mm. :D

H

[iceman]

Yeh I agree - for landscapes I really notice the difference when trying to use my 24-105, as opposed to a wider angle (17-70, or 10-22). Especially on a crop sensor.

Just had a look on ebay - some 5D Mark II bodies are around the $2k mark. Not sure what warranty you'd get there as opposed to buying from DPP.

Any other recommendations of where to buy?

[naskies]

I'm sure we can all agree that primes and zooms have their places... which is why Canon makes a lot of money from me (14L, 24L, 17-40L, 24-105L, etc) :)

Mike, my understanding re warranty is that Canon will only provide warranties to cameras bought wholesale through Canon Australia - i.e. they won't cover grey-market importers such as the Hong Kong based eBay stores. Some of these stores will also purposely undervalue the shipment to avoid GST (sometimes gets caught, sometimes doesn't).

Canon used to have international warranty on lenses/flashes/etc, but unfortunately they recently scrapped that it's the same as digital bodies.

[Peter Ward]

I stupidly migrated from Pentax to Canon some years back....

....my L-series addiction started with a 7-200mm F2.8. My next fix was a 24-105mm

I went down-hill pretty quickly after that. 85mm F1.2, 14mm F2.8, 70-300 F4, 16-35mm...I was so hooked I even went to other dealers for a 8mm F3.5

...then I started on the hard stuff.. shooting up with a 500mm F4...I still wasn't satisfied. I need to get get more in.. so 8-15mm F4 was next.

And then there were the Tele-extenders. 1.4x, the 2x series III....but wait... I now have cravings for a 400mm F2.8... when will it end!??? :scared2:

[Bassnut]

Well, I've bought everything from DPP, unlike some other grey importers, there price is include GST and is shipped locally and they have local support=less grief And risk. It's not as secure as OZ sourced, and not quite (possibly) as cheap as direct from hong kong but a good compromise and still much cheaper than OZ shops.

Yes, I'm an H victim too, join the club, you won't be disappointed ;)

If your most interested in time lapse (once you have the 5d) f is the most important thing IMO, more than FL or L or not. 20 or 30 sec exposures start to get tricky with jerkiness and noise, you can get round that with adding interpolated frames and batch processing noise reduction and star rounding in PS (actually quite doable if you have the time and patience, would make the 40d usable too) but 1.4f was a snitch and such a luxury with the 5d it wasn't funny (mmm....... Yes it was, a hoot :D).

Waiting for the mk3, well that's an eternal struggle, you will always loose on "opportunity time" waiting.

If you do get gear that can do 10sec or so exposure times, you can use a standard astro mount at RA for movement effects. A dolly is nice but not essential .

[gregbradley]

D800 looks really really good. The 5D111 will have to be pretty hot to match this baby.

Greg.

[Octane]

The D800 is vapourware, though, Greg. That is to say, that its specifications are based on rumour.

They all are.

H

[hotspur]

DDP might be the way to go Mike,$2399.I think I'd rather walk into a building to pick this up-Its a large amount to spend-but well worth it.

Paul,has a good point-the 5DIII may not be as good in certain areas that we want-noise.This 5DII camera has the runs on the board.

[Octane]

The same could have been said for the Mark II. No dice.

H

[DavidTrap]

They keep upping the ISO of new sensors and the noise gets better.

DT

[g__day]

I'm very curious what the next step beyond the 5D mk II will bring for astrophotographers.

Canon research are uber secretive about what they do to protect their product patents, but they do listen very carefully to what features specialist photographers - like astrophotograpers - might need from a camera.

I don't expect they will offer a 20 Da type camera, but I wouldn't be surprised to find they do some things in firmware or software that really extend the capabilities of the hardware they utilise. We talked a bit about low noise and a CCD's full well counts and blooming - and you could see a light go on in their eyes. A group of very smart people hadn't previously thought about HDR in low light before; my gut tells me they may have intuited a trick or two that might minimise blooming and greatly enhance HDR processing. Fingers crossed - but it was simply me waxing lyrical to folk pondering what next; something may come of it or naught - never can tell with scientists!

[iceman]

Just have a look at that Pentax camera that moves the internal chip at the sidereal rate, based on a GPS sensor that knows your location!

A tripod astrophotographers dream - up to 4 minute exposures (depending on your FL obviously) with no star trails!

[gregbradley]

Which Pentax camera is that Mike?

Greg.

[dannat]

Greg its a sit on top in flash sho for the k-5 & k-r

[spearo]

And they say using your mobile phone while driving is risky...

:lol:

seriously I have a new 7D and its great for birding but i am also anxiously awaiting the onslaught of second hand 5D mk2 s in a few months

frank

[gregbradley]

Thanks Daniel.

Greg.

[Phil Hart]

*if* Canon ever release a 5DIII with the new 1DX sensor, there's not much to indicate that the real low-light performance will be significantly better than the 5DII. the pixels are just slightly bigger so a very small gain there.. but main improvement will be software algorithms etc which you can do in post-processing of a RAW file from any camera. that's the main reason high ISO performance looks better than earlier models.

i did a test the other day of a friend's 5D original vs my 5DII. at ISO1600 and ISO3200, her original 5D showed less random (shot) noise than my 5DII. not surprising really as the pixels are much bigger. it had more hot pixels but that can be easily taken care of with dark frames, and the 5D has amp glow in the corner which is a bummer.. other than that pixel size rules as it has to.

5DII increased fill factor, so some real gain there but i don't believe there's much more that can be gained in a theoretical sense. sensors have pretty much maxed out what can be done in terms of converting photons to electrons, so you can predict real low-light performance as soon as you know what megapixel count they choose.

what would get me really excited is if canon chose to release a full-frame camera with ~10 megapixels, like the Nikon D3/D700. anything with more pixels than the 5DII doesn't get me excited at all for low light work, except that the second-hand market will look attractive for those wanting 5DIIs!

Phil

[UniPol]

I bought a new 5D MkII recently off eBay and couldn't be happier. At a little over $2000 I thought I would carry the warranty myself even though the vendor offers a three year warranty i.e. sent back to Melbourne. Having owned a 300D, 350D (both sold), 400D (given to my son) and 450D (currently a backup and general use camera) the next logical step was the 5D MKII for AI with my refractors. I have to add that not one of the Canons has ever given the slightest bit of trouble in the past and hopefully my latest purchase will follow suit.

The 5D looks huge in comparison to the 450D but feels perfectly balanced and is a delight to use. I have bought a couple of second hand EF lenses (I didn't realise thet the EF-S lenses from my previous Canons don't fit the 5D) to get familiar with the 5D so as not to outlay a whole lot of money on new ones. I did buy a flash (again thinking that the 5D came with a flash), a Canon 580EX II, again off eBay and at a substantial saving over local vendors.

[Octane]

Welcome to the fold, Steve. :)

I got mine in one of the first shipments to the country (ordered the day it was released) and couldn't be happier!

H