What's the attraction to astrophotography?

[johnnyb]

Hi All,

I'm only a beginner with astronomy and lately I've been thinking about if I want to get more serious (once the kids get a bit older and I hopefully have more discretionay time), and if so what direction I'd like to take, e.g., visual or AP. Before I had kids I used to enjoy normal (terrestrial!) photography, but AP seems like a different ball game - there's the equipment required (and the associated $ :eyepop:), as well as the committment to get a single image (e.g., potentially hours of exposure), plus post-processing the raw data.

Somewhere inside I feel that it would be great fun and a real challenge to do serious AP, but when I think about it some more I can't convince myself that I can commit (the money or the time) to it, as I can't really work out what it is that I'd get out of it. I am a bit of a hardware and software geek, but there are plently of other things I could do (requiring less money and less time) to meet that need, and I don't really relate to the "I did it" thing.

So I have a question for the people on the forum who do AP...why? Is it that you like playing with the hardware, and the challenge of getting everything "just right" to capture the image? Or is it the final image and being able to say "I did that"? Or both? Or something else altogether?

Thanks.

John.

[TrevorW]

For me the technical issues of setting up and work required to process an image, also the research better understanding of the object imaged, the detail which isn't available visually unless you have very large scope

[bloodhound31]

It's a bit like exploring for me. Like breaking new ground in the wilderness, always wondering what's over the next hill, around the next corner, what secrets lay in the bottom of the next canyon.

Trying to photograph distant galaxies millions of light years away is like walking through a mist...you know there's something there...you can almost see it...you just want to push through that little bit further to see if you can catch a glimpse of the wonder ahead. Once I see it, refining the image and marvelling at the profound implications of distance, time and creation hold deep revelations for me.

It's an open book out there, waiting for us to turn the pages and discover the story.

Baz.

[Rob_K]

Fantastic John, how refreshing to see someone take this approach rather than the usual "Looks interesting, tell me what I need to buy"!

Because of the high concentration on the nth degree of excellence in astrophotography by those already on the treadmill, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that AP can be as simple or as complex as you like. Any camera & scope & mount will produce perfectly acceptable images if used to its limitations (and even beyond). Just a camera will!

As to why, yeah, you've covered a lot of bases there but there are many more reasons I'd guess. I like Trevor's personally - learning more about interesting objects & seeing things you can't see through the eyepiece (technical aspects leave me cold though, leave that for the geeks, LOL). I get a sense of wonder from all my (daggy) shots - that from my backyard I can capture photons from incredibly distant and astonishing things, not much different to visual observing but taken deeper. Baz's reply captures the spirit of it.

There is also something fundamentally human in creating an 'artwork', standing back, and saying "Wow, I did that!". Very few who start out would see themselves as becoming the next Ken Crawford or Damian Peach, but some might like to be admired for their efforts or achieve peer recognition, who knows. Maybe we're all in that boat a bit whether we admit it or not, another fundamentally human trait.

AP doesn't have to be about pretty pictures though - many on IIS submit their images to scientific programs which rely on amateurs because of the sky coverage they can provide (eg planetary images charting changes in atmospheric features). Others use their cameras to search for supernovae or novae, or submit CCD observations of variable stars to international databases. Then there are asteroid & comet searches, asteroid observations, occultations etc etc. So your astrophotography can have real purpose and make real contributions. But that's probably down the track a bit for one just starting out!

FWIW my advice would be don't jump in the deep end. Just have a bit of a dabble and then gauge what you are getting out of it before committing to the 'treadmill'.

Good luck with it!

Cheers -

[PCH]

Hi John,

I think you raise some great questions too. When I first joined this forum, I was really keen to get to the stage where I knew enough about astro to start AP. I bought visual only scopes, and used them plenty at first. I still do, but not as often as before.

But what has become clear to me is that I don't have the dedication that the AP guys on here clearly do have. Especially the guys that get great results through years of relentless enthusiasm.

To purchase the geast, to get it all stowed in the car each time, to get to that dark site, to spend time setting up, possibly it may cloud over or rain and it's all a waste of time - this time. And most of the time don't forget, the best times for this seem (hope I'm not wrong here) to be at the coldest times of the year, so you have to dress like an eskimo whilst dragging wardrobe sized car batteries around to power the endless array of dew heaters etc.

I love looking at other peoples' efforts, but can I be bothered doing all the stuff necessary to produce it myself? It took me a while to finally accept that the answer is a great big NO.

But kudos to those that do. And I do believe it's probably incredibly rewarding when you make even quite small advances in your understanding and ability.

But first, take time to decide whether, like me, you're going to actually have the dedication and enthusiasm to use the gear that you will spend serious dollars on.

Just my 2c. Hope it helps :thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

I like taking pretty pictures. It's as simple as that.
And there is that certain satisfaction one gets when everything comes together on the night. :)

[Paul Haese]

AP is an extension of my photographic hobby. I like making pretty pictures of just about everything. In astro I image the planets (and solar system objects), Sol and DSO. Digital astrophotography is certainly more demanding than film ever was. However, I see it as all fun. I also contribute to research programs and enter the odd competition. The driving force for me though is making pretty pictures. That is what I get out of AP. I see it as a competition to improve all the time and that is what drives me year after year to image.

No one reason is better than the other, so long as you enjoy the doing.:)

[jenchris]

I enjoy learning and improving.
Each time I capture an image, I try to make it better, even if it means starting right from scratch.
I don't have the wallet for expensive gear, but then I'm not an F1 buff either - I'll go for the 'best I can get with the gear I am using' approach

[Poita]

I'm enjoying blowing the rust out of my brain and the challenge it brings.
For me there is also a weird feeling of 'Oh my god, that stuff really exists up there'.
I had the same feeling when I first saw Saturn through a scope, a 'Wow, it's really up there!' kind of moment.

Watching an image emerge from the processing reminds me of the old days when I used to watch a B&W photo emerge onto the blank paper in my darkroom, the excitement of seeing the image appear, and then finally seeing just what you captured.
There is also a personal satisfaction of capturing a photo that you can't *see* with your own eyes.

But to be frank, I get almost as much fun out of just pointing an SLR at the night sky at a dark site, especially the new DSLRs with their very sensitive chips. I'd say grab a DSLR, you get to grab great shots of the kids then, and start messing with it on a tripod, and process the results.
If you find you can't sustain the interest doing that, then AP probably isn't your bag. If you find yourself out there at 3am grabbing pictures of the moon, or the milky way etc. and fussing with processing them later and loving it, then.... sell a kidney and get into it.
It can be an awful lot of work for very little reward, and getting up at 1am and leaving the house and kids behind can end up nearly impossible when it actually comes down to it.

[Poita]

Solar imaging can be more fun if you have the day available to you.
You can modify a PST for under a grand and image with a basic mono camera or SLR.
At least then you are doing it during the day, the Sun is constantly changing, so you capture images you haven't seen a thousand times in better resolution from Hubble, and you aren't freezing your testiclees off at 3am in winter only to have it start raining.

[jenchris]

Testiclees eh?
Safe - I'm in Queensland and I don't have any.
Yellow ball one day, yellow ball the next.

[sjastro]

We can now rest in peace.:P

[Poita]

Phrozen Testiclees is the ancient Greek God of Astrophotographers.
Often depicted as a shivering bleary eyed personage shaking his fist at the heavens.

[jenchris]

Friend of Archimedes who got him to run naked in the street while wet through - "I'll get Phrozen Testiclees for this", he said, feeling the draught most assuredly.:rolleyes:

[sadia]

I am inspired by the fact that once I have processed the raw data it becomes quite unique and something of my own. I also enjoy the fact there is a constant challenge of improving on my last best effort.

[Alchemy]

There's something about doing it yourself.... I could buy a Hubble poster, but mine is more personal.

I enjoy the wonder of seeing the image come together, revealing what I know I'd never see visually.
The challenge of doing better at some stage ( though this usually requires an expensive upgrade of some kind)
Toys toys toys.... A well set up astrophotography kit is one heck of a gadget, and how many guys don't like gadgets
data collection is the easy bit, open up the observatory, set the focus, guiding and let the computer do all the hard work while I go inside to do whatever( no frozen bits here thankyou)
Time processing a decent image on the computer can take hours and it's actually quite enjoyable.

I purely do it for personal pleasure, I don't sell or display my images, I try to enter the one competition each year ( no expectations there). It doesnt matter that someone else can do better or worse. Just a satisfying hobby that doesn't matter if you miss that target tonight it will be there tomorrow, the timeless wonder of it all, just imagine if Galileo could see what we take for granted here.

[jjjnettie]

And once you've captured all you can with one set up, it's time to upgrade to something bigger and better and start all over again :D
The learning curve while it can be very frustrating at times, is very rewarding.

[Octane]

Being a bit of a geek with an artistic bent, astrophotography becomes the ultimate pursuit of technical perfection.

I've had a camera in my hands for half my life, it just made sense to apply my knowledge to capturing the stars.

It's geek heaven!

H

[johnnyb]

Thanks everyone for your responses. It's given me some more to think about, and probably confirmed that (at least for now) I don't have the energy or motivation to do serious AP.

I like Poita's suggestion of getting a DSLR (I've been trying to convince myself to buy one anyway for terrestrial photography ;)) and using that for some astro shots, so I might try that when I can spare the $.

John.

[mental4astro]

I think there should be a 'visual' voice in this discussion too, :).

Visual allows me that 'instant gratification'. As you've suggested John, there is also the $ aspect. I don't want or need to spend the big bucks to get me what I want. Sure I've spent some money, I have 6 scopes. Yet these all provide me with different visual experiences to satisfy the my mood or the conditions of the night. Moon is out, great, I pull out my 5" SCT. Dark site and a spectacular night, I may choose my 8" f/4 for the wide field view.

Time is also a factor. When the kids are awake, I'm with them. When they're in bed that may only give me 1 to 3 hours obs. time. That's plenty for me to get a sketch or two done. I also am not at all interested in sitting at a keyboard for this hobby. It's not what I signed up for.

Then there is the challenge of pulling as much detail as possible out of a scope. To see so 'obviously' a faint galaxy that your mate can't is a quiet thrill of mine, :lol:.

Then there is also that magic of the photons of distant objects being ALL MINE.

Oh, there is also the DIY aspect for me. Of my 6 scopes, 3 I built myself, to MY specifications, and MY needs.

Mind you, I can appreciate the pictures that are produced by the imaging devotees. The quality of these images show how far technology has come that now many folks who would not have look to astronomy as a hobby now can. I just don't see it as the be-all-and-end-all in astronomy, but it does have its place and in ways you wouldn't have thought of, even in the visual vein:

Have you ever tried to show the Moon through a scope to a kid who is in a wheel chair and is unable to crane his head to see through an eyepiece? That can only happen with a camera in a scope and a monitor. I was brought so close to tears by four kids this way a little while ago. Four hours was spent this way with just two objects, the Moon and Saturn on the grounds of a children's hospice. Four of the most amazing hours I've had in astro, and not an eyepiece in sight. Visual and imaging together.

[ZeroID]

I'll go with the DIY aspect and the challenge of doing it 'my' way. I'm also a photog from way, way back and it's a technical extension to that. But I enjoy the workshop time immensely. Building a piece of equipment or solution that achieves what seems impossible by mere mortals. using materials and skills that make you think and learn.

Yep, that and standing around outside in the freezing bloody cold ....

[BlackWidow]

Well I am getting old and not very good looking. I am useless at any sort of sport. And just looking at stars does nothing to impress my peers. Taking nice deep space pictures gets plenty of attention, with wows and that's fantastic comments. Tell people you are into astronomy and you get all sorts of odd reactions ( I love the star signs!) So what a way to feed my lack of self Esteem.... with impressing people with my pictures... Astrophotography.. The Art Of Funding Results LoL

Oh and I can't spell very well...


Na not really!.. It's just a real challenge and very rewarding... And the wife recons I'm not that bad looking, but she calls me Sheldon ???


Mardy

Can't think of a better reason

[RobF]

Because I'm a nerd...:P

Astrophotography allows "multiple-personality-nerding" by combining my love of:

- computers and fiddling with/writing software
- astronomy (as someone else said - heck, that stuff really IS up there :eyepop:)
- electronics (there's always some new toy you need to buy or make :))
- photography (never appealed until I bought a DSLR for AP though, so I've got the cart before the horse compared to many)
- excuse to get out and stay up all hours from time to time and chat and perve on astro-porn with like minded astro-nerds :D

Did I mention I'm a nerd? :question:


Actually, processing does get pretty addictive - the thrill of "developing" what you yourself captured "in the field"....

[spacezebra]

I agree - Im a nerd!

I like the challenge of learning something new. More power, more aperture, more cables, more software, more frustration...... etc.

Cheers Petra d.

[jjjnettie]

Best hobby in the World!
You can have things as simple or as complex as you like.
And Astro folk are the best company you'll find anywhere. :D

[RickS]

What's the attraction to astrophotography?

At times I wonder, like tonight when I dragged my mount, scope and electronics out, set it all up, and got one 30 minute Ha exposure (of the 6 or 8 I had hoped to capture) before the clouds rolled in... but if it's clear at 7pm tomorrow night I'll be out there again ;)

For me, the attraction is the satisfaction of doing something really difficult and trying to improve and learn something new with each new image. I also enjoy the problem solving aspect and, of course, all the cool optical, mechanical, electronic and sotware toys :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Rick.

[ballaratdragons]

I am going to have to educate you folks!

There isn't JUST 'visual' or 'Astrophotography'.
There is both combined.

I am talking about VideoAstronomy.
If you are doing Visual, just take out the Eyepiece and pop in your AstroVideo camera and see the object on your laptop monitor, a TV or project a 10m high image of it on the side of a building, all 'Live'.

If you want pretty pics, save the images.

There are so many advantages in Video Astronomy, but I can't understand why Australians are so slow to embrace it like the rest of the world has.

Alex touched on one great aspect of Video AStronomy in his mentioning of kids in Wheelchairs being able to see objects.
Now also think of those with poor eyesight, light pollution, an interest in Outreach, public displays and open nights, (no more greasy eyepieces from ladies make-up), sharing it 'Live' on the internet, yadda yadda yadda etc.

After 21 years of visual, then 6 years of Astrophotography, the last 18 months with VideoAstronomy have been the most rewarding and fun!

But it's just another option for you, or anyone else.
Just don't think of only Visual or AP as 'all there is' to choose from :thumbsup:

and you can start up in AstroVideo for about $200 :)

[cybereye]

Astrophotography allows me to see what I can not see... does this make sense? :question:

Cheers,
Mario

[mental4astro]

Very well said Ken.

I do find it sad & frustrating to hear folks say "I'm photo" or "I'm visual" at the complete exclusion, existance or ENCOURAGEMENT of the other. I guess I've been guilty of that too. It really is DUMB to be so disdainful of others. Heck, most of the world has never looked through a scope, and we b**** about the next bloke!

I enjoy ASTRONOMY, my strength is in sketching, & my sisters and brothers take AMAZING pictures. That's my new slant.

[barx1963]

I've never seen the distinction between visual and imaging, two sides of the same coin. I love looking through an eyepiece and tracking down faint objects, but I am keen to give imaging a try as I know there are thousands/millions/billions of objects that I will never get see so that is way to get them. Imaging or video is simply another way of enhancing our own eyesight and isn't that what a scope does anyway.
My 2 cents!

Malcolm

[dugnsuz]

I like pointing a bit of glass at a bit of dark sky then 10 minutes later it's all red, orange and blue...Astro Alchemy