Halleluja!!!! (Let there be binoviewers...)

[Miaplacidus]

Dearly beloveds,

I've been a binoviewing skeptic for ages now. The 3D effect is just a trick, right? Magic eye gimmickry, it's not true stereopticism, is it? Well, no, of course it isn't! And astronomy is a science, right? So why dim the image for the sake of an optical illusion? Well...?

Then last night I tried a friend's WO binoviewer ($350, with included 20mm EPs - what a bargain!) on his LX90 8 inch SCT. First object: Orion's neb...

...Ten minutes later I eventually remember I'm standing at the observing site, using someone else's telescope, looking at something that ISN'T just hanging there in space a few feet away, wisps and filaments of cobweb nebulosity I should be able to just sweep away with my hand, the four stars of the trap magically suspended in the (much more contrasty than usual) black background. I just couldn't pull my eyes away...

I'll spare you the descriptions of Saturn, or various globulars. Suffice to say that we're talking Saul on the road to Damascus, Moses overlooking the promised land, Dante's vision of Beatrice...

No seriously, my first resolved vision of 47 Tuc probably got me thus far along the road of astronomy, but Orion's neb through binoviewers is an epiphany of another order of magnitude.

And no, it's not the 3D-ness that does it. It's the fact that you've got both eyes open. Your face relaxes, your body relaxes, you breathe more easily, you lose all tension, you forget that you're looking through a telescope, you spend longer looking at objects... It is just so much more natural. You see more, even if intellectually you KNOW you must be seeing less. Bringing two eyes into play, well, let's just face it, it's how humans are meant to see things.

You want to know the only bad thing? WO binoviewers won't work in my scopes. Looks like expensive Denks for me. But if you have an SCT and you baulk at spending big on binoviewers, you owe it to yourself to try out these inexpensive units from WO on your scope. It will probably be the best accessory you'll ever buy.

Go in peace, to love and serve the Nagler.

[janoskiss]

Binoviewing is pretty awesome, huh? I was going to get the WOs too from Frontier Optics, until Daniel warned me that there is a good chance they will not work in my scope. So I reluctantly bought the Burgess unit from the States in the end, but I've learnt since that you can buy different OCAs separately. You can also by a 1.25" barrel extension to go between the BV and the WO 1.6x OCA to help reach focus. You can also use a large 2" barlow to get focus, but you will end up magnifying a lot more than 2x with a 2x barlow, so it's only good for high power viewing.

PS. OCA is a barlow-like lens that screws on the end of the binoviewer barrel. It pulls the focal plane forward to compensate for the added light path in the BV, and magnifies the image at the same time.

[rogerg]

I've always wanted a binoviewer ... never quite convinced myself to spend the money on it, always ending up buying a new camera/electronics item/gadget instead leading to me sitting infront of the computer more than the scope.

I didn't realise the WO ones were only $350. That is not bad. I like WO stuff, after buying my Megrez a few years back now.

Hmmmm..

[Miaplacidus]

Yes, Steve, I could actually get the binos to focus on my dob by using a barlow (but not the OCA), but the magnification was insane.

Where did you get the Burgess set (and how much did they cost)? I was looking at the Stellarvue binoviewers, which are meant to focus in refractors. (The actual base unit is the same, isn't it, from all these sources?)

Cheers,

Brian.

[janoskiss]

Burgess was from Highpoint Scientific for $US139 + $US70 postage :eyepop:.
I'd say get the WO with the two EPs and get an EP barrel extension to get you to focus. Or get the Denks if you've got the cash (for the unit AND for eyepieces).

[Rodstar]

Binoviewers are on my ultimate wish list, too. It's just having to pay for two of every EP that makes the cost rather overwhelming at this stage for me.

From what I have read, viewing with two eyes adds about 40% to what you would otherwise perceive with only one eye. Add to that the relaxation to the face that comes with not squinting, and it is sure to improve the viewing experience.

I would be interested to know if doubles are easier to split using bino's, or whether using two eyes subtley smudges the image. Does anyone know?

Williams Optics gear is sensational. The SCT crayford focuser I recently purchased from Frontier Optics has revolutionised my viewing experience.

[cjmarsh81]

Same here Rodstar. I would really love a set of bino-viewers. The cost is a bit prohibitive though considering you have to buy two of every EP. I can buy a nice set of 25x100 binoculars for that price and probably get a similar image through them. Also I would be able to use them during the day on terestrial. Ah this hobby is so expensive.

[janoskiss]

Rod, the pair of EPs you get with the WO BVers would be enough fine to begin with. Especially with the SCT, where you can use the BVer without OCA, with OCA and with barlow for low, mid and high powers. And if you want an extra pair of EPs, cheap plossls like the GS would be fine. (there is no point getting premium EPs for a budget BVer.)

BVer won't help with double stars. They are easier with the higher transmission and sharpness of a single EP. Where BVing really brings out detail is on planets.

CJ, binoviewing and binocular viewing are totally different things. You get wide views with the 25x100 but not with a BVer. And a BVer gives you medium-to-high power views of clusters, nebulae, and the planets. Oh how I love those awesome 3D planets! :)

[casstony]

One thing to consider with the Chinese bino's is that Stellarvue check every unit they sell - I don't think any other company does this.

-Tony

[janoskiss]

Burgess make a similar claim. I wouldn't give such claims too much weight. Stellarvue, Burgess, WO, Celestron, etc, they all might check them, but what are the criteria for passing or failing them? My Burgess is perfectly collimated even at 300x power, and I can merge the views without even trying.

[Hammerman]

Yeah, binoviewers are a kick. I've been hooked since looking through a pair of Televue's on a 5" Astro Physics refractor. WOW! (Too much cash for me to spend, but "wow" just the same)

I've been looking at the Denk Standards. for $399 in the U.S.. The other clones (WO, Orion, Celestron, etc.) are all selling for $199 here. Thing about the Stellarvues.... they add their own doipter focusing units. That's a BIG plus over the other clones.

All the clone ones are great from what I hear, but they only have 22mm clear aperture where the Denk's have 26mm. I'd really like to see a pair side by side to see how much of a difference that would make. I'm trying to justify spending twice as much on the Denk's, but I'm still not sure.

[Scoper]

G'day, this my first time in the Iceinspace forum. You guys seem to have better luck than me with binoviewers. I bought the Saxon binoviewer last year and-well frankly was quite dissapointed, the image is soft and mushy compared with the monocular view which shows much more detail. My guess is the prisms in the unit are introducing a small degree of spherical abberration. What is your view of the Saxon unit? Not sure if I would want to purchase another brand (been put off by the Saxons) but do you have a reccomendation. My 'scope is an 8", f7.4 reflector, about 15 years old with good optics.

[casstony]

I wouldn't judge all binoviewers by the Saxon unit - Saxon quality control is a little lacking. My last Saxon purchase will be my last Saxon purchase - ED80 turned up with numerous metal particles on the lens and a bent focus wheel shaft.

The Stellarvue/Burgess/etc chinese bino units have the reputation of being decent though the quality can vary. I decided on a Stellarvue unit after searching the Stellarvue yahoo group archives and finding numerous references to effective QC. Stellarvue owners seem to be a very contented lot and hold Vic(the owner) in high regard. I'm sure the ocasional lemon still gets through though.

If you wanted more performance/quality the Denk's seem to be well regarded (I haven't used them) starting at about US$350.

-Tony

[janoskiss]

Re Saxon binoviewers: I looked through one at Bintel (leftover stock from a while back) and it was very ordinary indeed. The Saxon is heavier, has tiny clear aperture, and the optics appears to be very poor. "Soft and mushy" is a fair description. The Burgess unit (which is like most of the budget units these days) is lightyears ahead!

Re Saxon ED80: Most people who have bought one (including me) are very happy with them. It is the same as the Orion ED80 but in a different colour and logo. Saxon is not a manufacturer but an importer. Tony, your scope sounds like it might have got damaged in transit. Why not simply return for an exchange.

[casstony]

Hi Steve,
I returned the ED80 on the same day I received it - didn't even look thru it. I hate unpacking faulty stuff. It was my own fault though - tried to save a few dollars instead of buying from a dealer that checks the products they sell. (eg. BATSC/Bintel). Shortly after this experience I picked up the Stellarvue SV80BV while in the U.S. and I'm very happy with the quality.

I take onboard what you say about most people being happy with their ED80's. I think the lens is Japanese? so you can't go too far wrong there.

-Tony

[Twokids]

I got to look through Steve's binoviewers over the weekend, and once I'd got them adjusted to suit my eyes, all I could say was 'wow'. It just seemed so much more natural viewing like this and the image really jumped out at me. These are now up there on my wish list. (Damn camps given me a whole new list of things I'd one day like to get. It never ends :( )