Tak collimation issues (new thread)

[Exfso]

This is a follow on from my original thread which seems to have expired. The TOA130 is now winging its way back to Japan after the company in Australia stuffed it up. This is now in the hands of Consumer affairs, not holding my breath though. The Tak factory viewed the star test I did after the Aust company had 2 goes at it, and their response was, "maybe ok for amateurs, but certainly would not pass the Tak factory quality inspection". It has been an expensive exercise, but I have learned one thing, dont let Amateurs get their hands on Takahashi equipment, they have no idea what they are doing. At least I know that it will come back from Takahashi in new condition. The fact that the Aust distributor of Takahashi recommended this company certainly does little for their reputation. In the words of the guy I communicated with at Takahashi, very few people outside of Takahashi know how to collimate these refractors. The mere fact that there are 6 collimating screws should indicate that it is very complicated.

[desler]

Pete,

Mate, what can one say, In one way I'm happy that your going to finally resolve the issue, but, what a headache! and costly exercise.

Just hope she comes back as good as new and all goes well. Do you know yet how long it will take to fix?

Darren

[Exfso]

Darren, it should be in Japan by the end of the week, reckon I should have it back in around a fortnight. They will have to check everything as the clowns that worked on it managed to loosen the focuser, they also disassembled the entire lens cell without me asking, all I wanted was for them to collimate it:screwy:. They also decided to clean the optics as well, did a hash job as well I noticed smudges on the optics when it came back from them. So Takahashi will have to give it a 100,000km service I reckon:rolleyes: At least Takahashi are "real professionals".
I have sent numerous emails to the company concerned and they just refuse to answer them. Looks like arrogance has kicked in. Hopefully the Office of Consumer and Business affairs will stir up some action. After all I paid money for services that were not performed correctly and the intitial problems were not fixed, if anything the problems have become worse. I know the first time the scope was returned to me, it was totally unusable, they said the front element had become loose in the cell, yeah right, who had the cell to bits. If they knew what they were doing this would not have happened, god knows what sort of other mischief they have caused. Not to mention the grief that I am getting from "she who must be obeyed":help:

[desler]

Not long to SV mate and you can get a respite hahaha.

Keep on consumer affairs, this shouldn't be aloud to just be forgotten.

Take it easy.

Darren

[Exfso]

Thanks Darren, about time I had a change of luck.:D

[Omaroo]

Dammit Peter - I'll definitely never send anything to this mob for "adjustment". That probably goes for buying anything either. I can't believe the callous indifference. I sincerely hope that they see this and offer to pay for your extra trouble. Not likely by the sounds of it though. :mad2:

I trust the scope will come back in pristine alignment - and with sparkly-clean optics. At least it is now it the best hands it could be.

[mill]

Peter let me tell you that that tak has been very taksing and been collecting loads of frequent flyer points. :lol:
I just hope that this will be the last time the tak has to get operated on and it will be perfect when you get it back :thumbsup:

[Hagar]

Mate, you should start saving for 2 new purchases, maybe 3.
Firstly a frequent flyer membership for this scope. This could give you some benefit.
Next a nice glass case so you can mount this scope above the mantle piece where it can't hurt itself.
Lastly, buy another scope for everyday use.

I hope the trip to Japan gets it all fixed and returned safely to you.
PS. Try to make sure it doesn't come back during a customs strike or bagage handler strike. You might have it back by SV camp if all goes well.
Good luck Pete.

[Omaroo]

After all this, I firmly believe that Takahashi should look for and appoint someone new to distribute their equipment here - and make sure that they are trained to be able to maintain it locally for us. The incumbent supplier should not merely be pointing you to companies who misrepresent themselves. Having to ship your scope back to Japan is ridiculous!

[Exfso]

Chris, you are spot on, but for some reason, Takahashi refuses to set anyone else up in Australia despite the inability of the current regime to be able to do follow up maintenance/repairs. Someone I know has already offered to do so but was told by Takahashi that they only have one distributor per country. A pity really. :shrug:

[Omaroo]

Maybe a petition to Takahashi is in order.

[Exfso]

I reckon that is a top idea Chris...:thumbsup:

[gregbradley]

Wow, is this the same scope that you were trying to handle about 2 years ago on the Tak Uncensored Group?

Is this still unhandled after all this time?

Whoa.

Greg.

[Exfso]

Greg, the same scope, but that time it got sprayed with insect repellant at Snake Valley and the optics were damaged.(not by me I might add). I seem to have a lot of bad luck with this scope. When collimated it cant be faulted though. This time all my fault though, I removed my guide scope and did not have the clutches done up tight enough and the assembly being very countweight heavy bought the scope up to the vertical when the roof of my obs was closed, the dew shield hit the roof quite hard before I could do anything about it. One to remember in future. Purely an accident.:(

[Exfso]

Just for information, this 130 is not my original one, that was replaced by Takahashi as it had a faulty set of optics, there was some pinching going on and they were really great about it, no questions asked, they just sent me a new one. That all happened around 5 years ago, it was done under warranty.

[gregbradley]

I see. That's good Tak replaced the original pinched scope. This was the one I remember you had trouble with.

Greg.

[Exfso]

Just been advised by the freight company that the scope arrives in Japan today, wow, that is quick...

[Hans Tucker]

I know of at least two Takahashi dealers in the USA (granted, they have a larger population therefore a larger potential customer base)...so that line from Takahashi doesn't really make sense...maybe someone doesn't want the competition.

[Exfso]

Hans, I believe you have hit the nail spot on the head mate.:thumbsup:

[Waxing_Gibbous]

There are a few dealers in the USA, but import, distribution and warranty work is all done through Texas Nautical Repair (TNR).
They're pretty-sodding-hopeless too!:mad2:

[gregbradley]

What problems have you had with TNR in the USA?

I always found Fred or Art to be awesome and extremely helpful.

Greg.

[Exfso]

This mob I got in Sydney to have a go at my 130 are a right piece of work. They wont answer emails and now I have sent a registered letter to them and as far as I can tell they have not even signed for that. Methinks they have put their head in the sand and are hoping I will go away. Aint gonna happen.:mad2:

[cventer]

I am going to have a guess and say this is Astro Optical Supplies ?

Dont think its right this kind of behaviour is not named and shamed

[jamespierce]

As the owner of a few Tak's this thread makes me feel slightly ill to read !

[Exfso]

James, it all boils down to one fact. There is no company in Australia that can satisfactorily service the optics on Tak refractors. I believed what I was told that the Australian Distributor recommended a company, and in good faith I decided to give them a go. I was wrong and it has cost me. In no way are Takahashi at fault, their equipment is excellent. This particular problem (the initial one) was caused by an accidental blow to the OTA causing collimation to be affected. I should have sent the telescope back to Japan in the first instance. It is there now and with any luck I will have it back by the end of next week. I should not have let amateurs who claim to be professionals tinker with it. If you have any issues with your Tak scopes, don't mess around, send them back to Japan, they are the people who know them best. In the past I have had nothing but excellent service from Takahashi and in this instance they are still 1st class.

[Exfso]

Just for information, I have received a report from Takahashi stating that my telescope was basically almost trashed by this mob in Australia, and required almost a complete re-build. Collimation was totally out, lens cell had been removed incorrectely and caused damage to internal paintwork and edge coating on lenses. They had to do some re painting and totally re-build the cell setup. Basically they said that whoever had been working on the telescope had no idea what they were doing. Oh yeah and I got a bill for an extra $710.00 for their additional work over and above what I paid them to get it there and their original quote for re-collimating. I have rung the Australian Distributor and advised him of this company's shoddy work and not to recommend them to do work on Tak equipment, and he was rather amazed. The report from the Takahashi factory paints a sad picture of the damage caused by these cretins. Luckily it is now all fixed and they will send it back when I pay the balance. Should have sent it there in the 1st place. 20/20 vision hey!!

[Omaroo]

Ridiculous. The distributor should cough up a portion for a) being a distributor who can't provide the local service themselves and b) recommending these idiots who stuffed your scope. I'd be furious.

[gregbradley]

The temptation was getting it done cheaper by a local no doubt.

A bad experience for you but I think those who've read the post are a little wiser about what to do if their expensive scope is damaged so its not all bad.

Greg.

[casstony]

I imagine Claude has been using these people for many years for servicing FS series doublets and they simply didn't know what they were getting into with the Tak triplet.

Very disappointing to spend all that extra cash for no result.

[Paul Haese]

Pete, I reckon you need to approach Tak and go do their collimation and service course. We need someone in Australia with this skill.

[Exfso]

Apparently you have to go to Japan to do it. Also at least according to Claude, you need a $50,000 piece of equipment they use for collimating the lens cells of their triplets. Definitely out of my league:sadeyes:

[BPO]

Assuming you had the requisite training and equipment, you'd only have to charge a little less than the cost of returning gear to Japan. Most Australian and NZ Tak owners would be willing to pay that if it meant not having to return their gear to Japan for servicing. Well, you'd think so anyway...

[Exfso]

Got a letter today from the company concerned, they are making an offer for me to send the scope back to them again for another try, at my cost with freight. My name is Billy not silly, you got to be joking after they have messed the scope up to that extent would I send it back to them to really finish it off, not likely!!!

[desler]

I don't know how you've kept a lid on Pete, I now what I'd be doing with that letter, although sorbent is softer!!

Darren

[DavidTrap]

Their letter is essentially admitting they haven't done the job properly. Maybe lead them on a bit - ask them have they been trained by Tak to do the job and do they have the equipment recommended by Tak? Assuming they say no, fire back the communication from Tak. It looks like they have taken on a job for which they aren't qualified and have caused damage to the scope which has cost you a lot to fix. Kindly ask them to make you an offer of settlement, or you will see them in court when you sue for damages? Might get something. Does SA have a small claims court - might be able to pursue it through that avenue for not much money.

DT

[Omaroo]

They're obviously not in touch with their customers - at all. If they were, they'd know about this thread.

[Exfso]

David, it is now with Consumer and business affairs. The company have the communication from Takahashi, maybe that is why they have made the small offer, which is nothing short of a kick in the guts really, a total insult. I know for a fact that they have not had training in Takashashi equipment if they had, they would not have set about dis-assembling the lens cell when Tak state that this is not to be done. I certainly did not ask them to do this, all I wanted was for them to adjust the collimation.
I have kept copies of all communications and costings on this so far and it is going off to Consumer affairs tomorrow. I think the thing that will really sink the ship is the Tak factory's rather damming detail of what damage was done, it is quite extraordinary.

Chris, they may well know what is going on here, but at no time have I said who the company is, there have been numerous guesses, and that is the way I prefer to leave it for the time being. My close friends know, that much I will say. At least I know when the scope comes back this time it will be spot on, which is all I ever wanted.

[Exfso]

Takahashi notified me today that the scope is on its way back to me and in their words, as good as a brand new unit. :D

[mill]

Maaaaate Snake Valley here you come with a properly collimated TAK :cool::cool::cool::cool:
I am really happy for you :D

[Omaroo]

Good stuff Peter.

[Exfso]

Thanks guys, now comes the fight to get the money back for the shoddy work. I would really love to name and shame this company, but at this point in time it would not be wise methinks.

[Exfso]

Got the scope back today, the carton was quite hammered by the couriers, thank God it is triple boxed. One corner was totally ripped away, and the base looks like a fork lift went through it. Did a quick star test tonight in atrocious seeing, and it looks to be spot on as you would expect from Takahashi. Everything is spotless and re-lubed, they did a fantastic repair and service job.

[DavidTrap]

Can you name and shame the courier company?

Good to hear it's back to its former glory.

DT

[Exfso]

Sorry mate, not yet, reckon this thread would be removed if I did. Going to be some legal stuff going down probably, so don't want to interfere with that.

[Exfso]

Sorry David, I misread the thread, the couriers were EMS, and Australia Post here in Oz, everyone knows they damage stuff:D I thought you were referring the those that caused the damage. I gotta get some sleep I think:eyepop:

[DavidTrap]

Thanks Peter - if it were one of the smaller mobs, I just wanted to know who to avoid. Sorta stuck with those guys...

DT

[Exfso]

The OCBA advised me they have sent off a letter to the company concerned, the response should be interesting.

[Exfso]

This company is amazing, they have told OCBA that they did nothing more than clean the optics and that the TOA130 was a faulty scope from the outset. Funny that the tak factory mentions the damage done by someone dis-assembling the lens cell and causing internal damage, to not only the paintwork, but also an O-ring that separates the lens elements. I think they are clutching at straws. So now I go to the small claims court. If they think I am going to let them get away with their shoddy workmanship, they are sadly mistaken. They even say that I did not deal with Takahashi, but someone else in Japan, yeah right!! :mad2:

[casstony]

Go get 'em Peter.

The fact that Takahashi designed a complex triplet/lens cell does not equate to a faulty scope. At the very least they should not have charged you for their lack of ability.

[Exfso]

Here is a reply straight from Takahashi regarding so called faulty lens cells in the TOA130:

(Dear Peter,

There is some misunderstanding about the earlier model of TOA-130. At the first stage of our introduction of TOA-130, we have received many claims for almost all TOA-130 OTA from our USA dealer that there was astigmatism on TOA-130, and according to their expectation, the astigmatism was caused by the lens cell.

After receiving this claim from USA, our technicians have checked and investigated in details spending a lot of time and finally found that the USA dealer has used inaccurate collimation tools and they have visited Japan, and have acknowledged their misjudgment. This is the real story and we confirm that there was no problem at all on the lens cell of TOA-130 from the beginning. If you heard such claim from somebody, it is a definitely rumor, and we have never changed nor modified the lens cell of TOA-130 since our first introduction till now.

With our best regards, )

[Zaps]

You should find an excuse to repost this on the CN refractor forum.

[Exfso]

Might leave this here, at least the problem is the USA has been attended to in any case.