If you were to chose between these two.

[[1ponders]]

I'm interested in hearing what people choices would be if offered this option.

The choice: older SXVR-M25C or new QHY10

In this choice the price for the M25C is the same as the QHY10, approx $2500. I know that price isn't right but I'm just using it to level the field so to speak. Now the M25C has been around for a while and is a proven performer. But the QHY10 has some interesting statistics, the 47K well depth for a 6+ micron pixel for one.

They would be imaging using a range of FL 1000 - 2000, f/5-f/10. What would you chose and why?

[Alchemy]

I voted the qhy10

It's hard to beat for price and especially service from theo

For a few extra dollars you could go the qhy12 huge mega pixels and under 3k

What are you using at the moment ?

[[1ponders]]

A mixture Clive,SXVF H9 & modded 20D, so I already have bias :). The specs are difference so this is more about the performance of the two and results.

[jjjnettie]

Buy the qhy10 and let us know how it goes.

[RickS]

G'day Paul,

I have the QHY-12 which shares a lot of the same DNA as the QHY-10 and I'm quite happy with it. It has had a couple of weird turns, but always seems to recover with some power cycling and rebooting. The rest of the time it takes really nice images. Stars are a little bloated but that seems to be a "feature" of OSC cameras. Image downloads are also a bit slow, but then it is sucking down 14.2Mpix at a time. Colour and sensitivity are good. Cooling is also very effective. The sensor is amazingly noise free. Local support is very good, of course...

I also have a SX H18 camera and it is a very nice unit. My take is that the QHY cameras are great bang for the buck. The SX cameras seem a bit better quality-wise, but at a greater cost. TANSTAAFL, unfortunately ;)

I'm a bit skeptical of the claimed full well depth for the QHY-10. I couldn't find any independent evidence of this when I was comparing the QHY-10 and QHY-12 and I did find inconclusive data that pointed to a figure closer to the other QHY OSCs.

Cheers,
Rick.

[Alchemy]

Just had a quick look at the specs of the sx and am I right in saying this is basically a qhy8 chip?

Various imagers swear by a particular brand but I can't see why 10% better electronics equates to 40% extra cost.

I have a qhy8 with the 7.4 micron pixels, I tossed up between the 12 which has 5.14 micron pixels and the 9 with it's slightly larger 5.4 microns. Going hhe way of the mono as I want as much resolution as I can get, plus the narrowband.

The qhy 10 has 6.05 micron pixels which equates to nearly 50% better resolution than the sx.

[[1ponders]]

Now that's what I'm looking for. :D Thanks Rick. You've raised a couple of point that I had considered. TBH I've not had one of the latest QHY brand in my hands so quality was an unkown quality ;). Having an SX I know of the quality and service behind them well. Though I hear great things about the QHY service as well.

The stated well depth does leave me wondering. That's great capacity for a 6.05 micron pixel when the SX 25 only has 25ke- with 7.8

The image size is also a plus for the 10. 14.2 mp is a nice amount of real estate. Though the 25 isn't a slouch either. With the figures in CCDCalc the FOV is all but identical on the same scope. About the only thing that changes is the resolution from 0.69 - 0.89. With the sorry seeing around here lately that might be the better option.

Rick are you using an external IR filter with the 10?

[[1ponders]]

thanks Clive. I don't know the Qhy8 specs, I'll have a look into it.

The scope I was putting my last figures out for was a VC200L. If I'm keeping on the short end of the FL range then the 10 with the better res might be the go. But for most of my imaging I'll be looking at the higher FL end. That's the primary reason I'm looking at this question. If the costs were the same which if either would be the better option.

[RickS]

No, I wondered if an external filter might help with the star bloat, but the manual talks about the "IR cut glass" at the front of the camera so I assumed IR was already being blocked. Possibly silly of me to have assumed that without testing it, of course!

[[1ponders]]

You would think so at that description.

[mithrandir]

With your VC200L

QHY10
0.69 ASP, FOV 45x30.2 arcsec, 45ke- full well.

SXVR-M25C - which has almost identical specs to a QHY8
0.89 ASP, FOV 45x30 arcsec, >25k e- full well.

I think I'd prefer the QHY10.

[[1ponders]]

Looks like the Qhy10 has some admirers out there. But it also looks like you can't keep a good SX down. Thanks for the info folks. Now if only I could work out that way to find a spare 2 and a half grand .... or there abouts ;)

[Poita]

Or save a grand and get the QHY8.

[allan gould]

Paul
Used a QHY8 with a VC200L at Astrofest to take ds sky images. Trouble free imaging so you can see what this camera was like with your scope. All images posted were full frames with just levels and curves in PS3and a touch of sharpening.
Allan

[[1ponders]]

Ok I got the opportunity to use a QHY12 for a little while and see how I like the outfit. At this stage I haven't taken a shot in anger except for my stereo system using an 85mm canon lens.

The image looks promising but tbh the usb and power cable connections to the camera have turned me right off. I don't know if this is an isolated case but the cable connections have so much slop in them and do not feel positively connected that I'm worried the cables will fall out with the camera pointing vertically. I can't see how a consistent connection in either can be maintained they way they are.

My experience with secure connections of SX, SBIG, ATiK etc have left me reluctant to even consider buying a 10 now. If anyone's experience with the 10 or 12 is the exception to this I'd really like to hear it.

[h0ughy]

I still have my qhy10 in the wrapper but will pull it our later to see if this is true - but then as a wise man once said - velcro fixes everything;)

[marki]

Paul from my experience with the QHY8 and 9 this is not the norm. In both camera's the cables were a snug fit and I have never had one fall out even when the annoyingly long power cable used to drag along the grass.

Mark

[jjjnettie]

The connections on my qhy5 were the same. Full of slop that eventually led to an intermittent power supply that while it wasn't enough to cause PHD to fail, it did cause erratic guiding.

[ReaPerMan]

I have been using the QHY10 since March and I have had no trouble with my cables. iI tend to run the cables to the QHY and then use velcro to ensure that they don't catch on anything. With the star bloat issue i found the CCD calibration guide by Todd Benko and Brant Felix was excellent and improved matters a lot. I got it from Brendan Mitchell's website but i'm sure it's available elsewhere. http://brendanmitchell.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/QHY-Calibration.pdf It was desgned for the QHY9 but works as well with the QHY10.

all the best

Paul :thumbsup:

[RickS]

Thanks for the pointer to the calibration guide, Paul. I haven't seen that before.

Cheers,
Rick.

[tlgerdes]

I am another with a 10, cant compare it to anyother CCD as this is my first (outside of a DSLR), but I am happy with it. Havent had any stability issues with it, never had to reboot it during imaging.

It was bigger than I envisaged, about the size of a Coke can.

[[1ponders]]

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming, I may be slowly getting convinced. :lol: ;)

[gregbradley]

I know of neither so just a general comment.

Neither are ideal for your 2000mm focal length as the pixels are a bit small but the 14 megapixel Sony sensored QHY12 seems better than either.
One shot colour cameras still need a clear UV/IR cut filter in front or you will get bloat from the IR. The cover slip on the CCD will only be antireflection coated (I hope it is at least).

A 14 megapixel Sony HAD chip in an APS sized cooled sensor sounds very appealling. And under $3000 is very impressive. Its new, it modern, its hip. There is no mention of the QE of these cameras. Does anyone know? I imagine its around 25% which is very low. Most mono cameras now are around 55-60%.

MX25C is good but a bit old now. Isn't it also about only about 6-8 megapixels?

I wonder how much the QHY15 and 16 are? Also the QHY 11 with the KAI11002 chip could be good as that is the same sensor as the SBIG STL11 at a lower price.

Connections whilst it may seem a small point can mess you up badly. I have to repair my SBIG ST402 as it has a weak power connector which has caused endless trouble. Its not that easy to replace yourself as it has a clip soldered to the circuit as well. As pointed out a bit of velcro may help but its a shame such an important part of the camera has been compromised with a bit of careless design.

The adjustable tilt on the chip is a nice feature.

Greg.

[ReaPerMan]

HI Greg
the QHY tech specs document states that the peak QE iS 60% for Green and 50% for Blue and Red

all the best

Paul :thumbsup:

[gregbradley]

That's a Sony CCD so I am no particularly familiar with it beyond the fact its the same sensor that I had in my Nikon D70 which was my first astro camera.

50% QE for a one shot colour seems either incredibly efficient compared to Kodak one shot colour CCDs which are apart from the latest True sense sensors all about 25-50% with the average being high 20's. Those 60-50% are better than a mono STL11 or comes close to matching a FLI Microline 8300.

I recall a comment by Peter Ward that Sony uses relative QE to measure their CCDs. Perhaps that is where the difference is or perhaps the chip is in fact that sensitive. I suspect the figures have been massaged for marketing reasons.

Regardless it sounds like an interesting chip and I'd love to see some more images coming from it.


Greg.

[Peter Ward]

Greg are you using the current OEM connector?

It should have a screw-down locking collar, when locked down it provides a very good power connection.

I have seen dozens of these units and have yet to see one fail.

[gregbradley]

Yes that's the one. When screwed in tight it often cuts out like something is losing a firm connection.

I got a new one from Jaycar thinking it a simple replacement but it also has a 3rd clip soldered to the board I think for strength. So I backed off as I thought I might damage it.

Greg.