JCU Graduate Certificate in Astronomy?

[Ralph Davey]

Hi Ice in Spacers!

My name is Ralph, and this is my first post so please excuse me if I'm re-inventing the wheel! Besides that, I hope to have some good Astronomy based conversation with other members, so its good to be here!

I'm thinking of taking the plunge and studying Astronomy. I've looked at the distance education courses and Swinburne and JCU seem to be the most perfered. I'm opting for the JCU graduate certificate to start with, as this can potentially lead to further "career changing" studies (Masters etc), however, I'm playing it safe by starting with their lower course as I'm not sure if I want to commit to anything larger yet and may want to keep astronomy as my hobby, not a career option. However, this low investment option will give me a taste of whats to come!

My main issue is that my background is in human resources, and although I have a tertiary degree which will get me into the course (any bachelors degree is fine to start the program), I know that I don't have the required physics/maths background, with the exception of year 12 maths and am not sure what to expect. I've looked at all the threads that have covered this topic before, so any advice from JCU alumni would be great as I've still got till next year to prepare!

I spoke with the course coordinator at JCU and he was very helpful and reassuring regarding my background and told me that the two units; Modern Astrophysics and Astronomy Instrumentation, are not too intense and that the required Maths would be introduced. While I dont doubt his sincerity, I used to work for a TAFE and know that getting numbers into a course is the prefered option for educators. Having said that, he did state that the other coursework units were more intense at a Diploma and Masters level.

As far as I'm aware, both units are graded on assignments, tutorials and a final exam. Being an amateur observational astronomer for quite some time, I'm sure I'll be fine with assignments based on astronomical theory. However, if any of the JCU alumni could offer any tips or advice of what to expect regarding the intensity of these units, and any pre-physics/maths advice it would be a great head start.

My appologies in advance for making my first post such a cry for help, hopefully I can repay the community by helping someone else down the track!

Thanks again!

Best,
Ralph

[renormalised]

You're in luck....I've just graduated from the Masters degree course:)

If you're not quite sure what you want to do, then the certificate course would be a good place to start. If you do decide to do the Masters, then I'd suggest you brush up on your maths as you will be using quite a bit for the course. A brush up on your physics would be good as well. Those two particular courses in the certificate aren't too onerous but in the Masters course they do contain more maths/physics content. Those first two are rather basic level courses to start off with, but the (much) more intense courses do come later. The main thing is to not let the work get too far ahead of you and do the required readings. Get the textbook....it is expensive but it will be a big help. Get used to chasing down any number of research papers from journals and databases like arxiv.org. Try to read up on a bit more than you're given, but don't load yourself down with too much and if you start to feel you need a break, take it.

The lecture notes that you will be given just cover the basic outline of the course and point you to the references you will need to read. Most of the learning you will do will be by reading the textbook and doing examples from that as well. Learn your equations, but don't try to put them to memory. Best to write them down in a note book, so you can get a hold of them. The lecture notes will get you though the basics, but there is a lot more to learn and it'll be up to yourself to do this. I would also encourage you to buy other texts apart from your main textbook, especially if you do decide to continue further along than the certificate level. Whilst the textbook is comprehensive, more advanced work will need supplementary reading from specialised texts. Grab yourself some bibliography software, it's a big help when looking for journals papers and getting a "library" of them together. Makes it easier to find them.

If you have done algebra and calculus at Year 12 level and passed it OK, then so long as you can remember how to do it (!!!!:):P) you should do OK. If you feel you need some remedial work, then I would suggest you take it, just to brush up and to get back into the swing of things. If you've handled lots of maths in your previous background....probs and stats etc, then the other shouldn't be too hard for you. It is good to have a maths/physics/physical sciences background and they do prefer that for the Masters degree course, but you can do it without it....you don't necessarily have to take the purely astrophysics stream of the Masters degree. You can also do astronomical history and/or astronomy education as well. They allow for those that don't have the maths/physics/physical sciences background to complete the course.

Having a background in astronomy as an amateur will help, since you'll have that previous interest, but don't rest on your laurels because you have that background. I have the same background as an amateur and knew a great deal of what I was doing already, but you still need to be on top of your game even if you already know what's being taught. These are not necessarily easy courses, even with the less intense subjects. How much you do learn is up to you...as I said previously, the lectures just cover the basics that you need to know. To progress further you'll have to become more involved with the work. As with any course you do.

In any case, if you want/need more help and advice, I'm always here so all you need to do is ask:)

[Ralph Davey]

Thanks Carl for such a prompt and informative reply!

I think I will buy the text books now and get reading, the one for "Modern Astrophysics" seems like a huge book (check out the page length on amazon, phew), so I might just focus on certain chapters that cover topics that I'm less familiar with.

Carl, if you dont mind me asking, while its good to get extra texts, would the maths covered in "universe" be a good indication of what to expect? It seems to be the main text for both units, so I hope it reflects the level of maths that is taught!

If so, then I can work towards that level! My VCE Maths was quite some time ago, so I'll need to re-cover that stuff as well. Other than that, I'm really looking forward to studying again in a structured format!

Thanks again.
Best,
Ralph

[Terry B]

Good luck with it. I did the Master at UWS. The academics at JCU mostly came from that course. I had forgotten all my HSC maths but had no problem with it. My background is medicine so haven't used maths since school. Mostly you need to be able to apply a formula and do a little algebra. You don't need to derive formulas or remember them.
My course had people from very diverse backgrounds including Drs, a professional violinist, a naval officer and various business consultants. All did well.
You will enjoy the process.

[renormalised]

The maths you see in "Universe" is a reasonably good indication of the basic level you will need to pass your course. However, you will need to learn some more. But, if you want to really understand what you're being taught and to see what level you should be aiming for, then buying Carroll and Ostlie (Intro to Modern Astrophysics) is required. You can pick it up for $187 at Fishpond.com (http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Introduction-to-Modern-Astrophysics-Bradley-W-Carroll-Dale-A-Ostlie/9780805304022?cf=3&rid=1517096914&i=7&keywords=astrophysics)

Also, the book, Observational Astrophysics (http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Observational-Astrophysics-Robert-C-Smith/9780521278348?cf=3&rid=1517096914&i=3&keywords=astrophysics), can be bought from there as well. It's a basic book that covers the theory at a reasonable level that's easy to get into. It's basically an introductory text.

[mishku]

Hi folks

I've been toying with the idea of going back to studying some postgrad astronomy subjects, but I'm not quite sure whether I've got a strong enough mathematical foundation. I have a BSc, and was relatively comfortable with the maths we covered in epidemiology and biostatistics at a Masters level, though I've never studied physics.

Do you think my maths would be sharp enough to keep up?

Mishku

[renormalised]

Yes, no problems at all. Although a refresh of algebra and calculus wouldn't go astray. How is your algebra and calculus, in any case??

Also, brush up on some trig and geometry as well.

You don't need to be able to derive formulae from first principles or anything like that. Just so long as you can follow how they used and know how to plug the variables into the equations, or manipulate the equations, to get the answers you require. Knowing how to derive them (or being able to follow their derivation) will give you a better understanding of the maths, though.

You should have no problems with the courses.

I'll give you an example....say you want to find the distance to a star and all you know is the apparent and absolute magnitude of the star. You use the distance modulus...

m-M=5logD-5, with m=apparent magnitude, M=absolute magnitude and D=distance to object (Star) (log being base 10)

However, to get D, you need to manipulate the equation, like this...

D= 10^(m-M+5)/5 (in parsecs)

So, a star with m=8 and M=2.3 would be....

D=10^(8-2.3+5)/5
=10^2.14
=138pc

[mishku]

Thanks, Carl... let's be honest, i'm just pleased I can remember what you mean when you say first principles! :lol:

[renormalised]

I can show you how to derive various equations, but the way these posts handle equations is extremely awkward and makes it hard to post them in an easy to read format.

[Ralph Davey]

Hi all,

Thank you all so much for your help and advice!

I'll focus on getting my maths to a level that matches the "universe" and "observational astrophysics" texts! Wont hurt to delve a little deaper I'm sure.

Thanks once again.

Best,
Ralph

[mswhin63]

Reminding me of my Astronomy 101 course :). I am also learning Derivatives and anti-derivatives at the moment. Can be perplexing but I have an excellent Math teacher.

I expect my next year will be intense :)

I Remember M is at 10MPc ;)

[renormalised]

You mean 10pc (32.6 light years).

That maths above was simple stuff. If you do cosmology and stellar astrophysics, the maths can become very heavy. Actually, any area of astronomy can involve heavy maths, where it's required to model the various phenomena which can occur.

[mswhin63]

Yep correction 10 parsecs. Should observe more ;).

The way calculus is going at the moment I am really enjoying Uni. I am going to an open day on Sunday at Curtin University to find out more in a double major, one in Astrophysics, the other in Electronics Engineering.

Will working hard this semester to make sure I achieve greater than 80 ATAR score. Reading still seems to be my main downfall.

[renormalised]

Practice, Malcolm....lots of practice and don't rush your reading.

[Ralph Davey]

It's a little late, but just wanted to say thanks to all who joined in on my thread last week. Thanks especially to Carl and Terry for their advice. I'm going to enroll for a start in 1st semester next year and am self studying at the moment to get a decent head start.

Lastly I should add that I was initially worried of being shot down by a bunch of big wigs, given that I only have a basic grounding in theoretical astronomy (I'm more like a cosmic trainspotter), however this forum seems to be a very supportive community and I received the exact opposite of what I initially feared. Hopefully down the track I can contribute to that trend and assist others in my position (as well as join in on the interesting conversations here within the astronomy science forum).

Thanks once again.

Best,
Ralph

[mishku]

Ralph, I admire your bravery!! I'd be keen to hear your updates as your course progresses... might inspire me to crack the textbooks some time in 2012?

Mishku

[renormalised]

Some of us might have Masters degrees and/or PhD's but that hardly makes us big wigs:)

Despite having all these qualifications, it makes us no smarter than you or anyone else. We may have more knowledge at hand, but that's all. If we were smarter, we'd all have Nobel Prizes by now:)

Thing is, if you ever need any help, we're here to pitch in:)

[renormalised]

Strike whilst the iron is hot:):)

You're inspired enough as it sounds:)