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View Full Version here: : WO Binoviewer review - Seeing with both eyes!


Poita
03-08-2011, 09:24 AM
I'll start out by saying I'm not qualified to review anything, but a beginner's perspective can sometimes be useful to others starting out.

I have three kids, and they really enjoy looking at the cosmos, however the younger ones always struggle with looking with just one eye (though a cheap 'Pirate eye-patch' has worked wonders).

I saw a Williams Optics Binoviewer for sale in the classifieds here, and missed it, but purchased one from the Williams Optics website for $205 shipped to Australia. With it including a pair of 20mm eyepieces, it is ready to use.It arrived 6 days after ordering via international mail.

Unboxing:
It was well packed, double boxed in chicklets, with the inner box wrapped in bubble-wrap. The inner box was very nicely finished, with the internal foam inserts of a really high quality, the whole package gave off an air of quality, much more than I expected for the price.

Inclusions:
The binoviewer is *heavy* but feels well constructed, it also came with two 20mm eyepieces with rubber eye-cups and caps. It has a screw-in nosepiece 1.6x barlow, and is finished in White and Black, with nice large thumbscrews etc. The finish on it makes it look like a far more expensive piece of equipment.

Performance:
We had a night of unusually good seeing, I lined up the crescent moon with the old Celestron C8, and took a look with my standard 20mm celestron eyepiece.
We then popped the Binoviewer in the C8, and had a moment of panic as the the telescope suddenly swung downwards, due to the weight of the binoviewer!

We re-found the moon and focused with the included WO 20mm eyepieces.
Wow!
The difference of viewing with two eyes can not be understated, it was much more comfortable and the kids looked at the moon for *ages* commenting on all the crater formations etc. Normally they will only look for about a minute or two, but we spent half an hour perusing the thin sliver available to us. The youngest (3yrs) was very excited and kept wanting to take another look, and she normally isn't interested as I think she struggles with the single eyepiece.
It was easily adjusted for the spacing of my eyes, my partners, and the children. It smoothly and easily adjusts like a pair of good quality binoculars.

We swung the scope around to Saturn (my finder scope is broken, so it took me 5 minutes to sweep around the sky till I found it). Again, the view through two eyes was great, the rings were unusually sharp and clear, it happened to be a good night.
The kids spent another half hour relating details to each other and re-observing.
We managed to find a couple of DSOs after much trawling of the sky (must get a new finder!) and they came through faint, but lovely. Switching back to one eye without the binoviewer and they seemed harder to see. Probably just something psychological about gathering light into both eyes?

Optics:
I can't really comment here, I'm not experienced with any other binoviewers and this was really just a casual viewing.
The included eyepieces are better than the 20mm that came with the Celestron, the stars were pinpoint and sharp, and the views of the moon and Saturn were nicely focused and contrasty.
On the C8 when saturn or the moon went to the bottom edge of the view, there was an issue with a 'ring of light' suddenly appearing in the view, but objects in the middle didn't have this issue.
I had no problem achieving focus in the C8, with or without the included barlow.

Wrap-up.
It is great value, 2 reasonable 20mm eyepieces, binoviewer and barlow nosepiece for just over $200.
If you have kids or friends, just get one! It improves their enjoyment and comfort of viewing by a huge factor, my partner got right into it, and usually only takes a quick look. It looks and feels like a lovely piece of equipment and stores well protected in its padded box.

I found that I also observed for longer, as I was seated and comfortable with both eyes, and the pseudo 3D effect is very pleasing for long observations.
It probably isn't that fantastic optically for serious work, but it performed very well on my tired old gear.

I'd highly recommend it for a beginner, especially if you don't already have a 20mm or similar eyepiece. I'll be trying it out on an ED80 next week and let you know how it goes.

Hope this is useful.

adman
03-08-2011, 09:46 AM
great review peter.

I have always wondered with bino viewers whether the image brightness is reduced since you are effectively splitting the available light into two paths. But it seems maybe as though your brain is able to 'stack' the two images and the brightness is not affected that much?

Adam

Poita
03-08-2011, 09:49 AM
It didn't seem noticeably darker when using two eyes to view.
I guess the offset in splitting the image is made up by having both eyes viewing.
I didn't do much DSO viewing though, it was mostly bright targets, and it was relatively early in the night.

I will post my thoughts after some more extensive viewing they will certainly be getting a few more outings.

casstony
03-08-2011, 11:07 AM
Good to see you're enjoying the binoviewers Peter. Remember to refocus each side of the bino to cater for different sets of eyes - kids often have more equal focus for their eyes than adults, so it's probably best (on average) to set the diopter adjustment to the same point for both eyepieces when kids are viewing.

Image brightness is reduced through binoviewers but this only becomes an issue when observing objects that are already dim. For the price and performance it's easy to justify owning a set of WO binoviewers, even if you only ever looked at the Moon.

I use WO bino's for the Moon and planets and I don't see any loss of image quality compared to a single eyepiece, but my observing conditions are poor and I rarely get to go above 140x. I also like using them for brighter DSO's. Two eyes seem to add an extra dimension to the image.

Poita
03-08-2011, 11:16 AM
I'm lucky enough to have both eyes behaving perfectly, as are the kids, so we can leave it at the standard position, my partner had to adjust for one eye.

It was amazing the difference in each person's night vision too. My daughter and I walked back outside and straight up to the scope, as we could see it all clearly in the reasonably dark back yard. My partner and her two daughters couldn't even see the scope for about 5 minutes, and couldn't even tell if someone was standing near it. I had to go back inside and get the red LED torch out to guide them to the eyepieces.

I remember as a boy envying Arthur C Clarke's binoviewer setup and thinking that if I ever got super wealthy that it would be they way to go. At the time the cheapest solution with a pair of eyepieces was well over a grand. I was stoked so many years later to be able to do the same for a fraction of the price.

That was pretty much my view of the WO binos, that at the price they are worth it even if you just look at the moon, or want to let others have a gander at the moon and planets through your scope. Much more enjoyable for kids and people not used to peering with one eye, and a different, and more comfortable feeling and much less strain working with two eyes. For the price with eyepieces included, I am very happy.

graham.hobart
03-08-2011, 01:58 PM
Very useful review that, I am sorely tempted! May get my wife and eventually my little girl interested...Good price too.
Thanks for that. Will peruse the website.
Regards
Graham:eyepop:

graham.hobart
03-08-2011, 02:03 PM
Just one thought, how do you reckon they would go for clearance on the back end of 'visual scope' a Meade SCT on fork mount? I have had issues with cameras/larger eye pieces hitting the base when pointing up. Would be ok on a newt/refractor though wouldn't it?
Graham:hi:

graham.hobart
03-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Just another thought- could you keep one eyepiece in and make it parfocal with a webcam etc in the other eyepeice? Watch and video at the same time?
Graham:question:

Poita
03-08-2011, 02:26 PM
I was using it on a Celestron C8 SCT on the standard fork mount, plugged into the standard star diagonal, I had no issues.

cookie8
03-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Hi Peter
I also bought a pair from WO eBay webshop 2 weeks ago. I totally agree that their price was great ($99 cheaper than their official Aussie dealer Andrews?!)
Yes they are of good quality and heavy, causing some balancing issue with my WO refractors. I have some focusing issue. Even with a 1.25" diagonal and the supplied 1.6x barlow nosepiece I couldn't achieve focus: not enough inward travel. Solution is to use a short 2x barlow between the diagonal and binoviewer then I could come to focus with plenty of room to spare. Seeing with both eyes open was a lot more relaxing and allows me to spend more time at the eyepiece and sometimes I could see depth/3D feeling. I guess ED80 would have the same issue which I haven't try. I will try it tonight on my 5" Mak as well to see if it focuses or not. Will let you know.:)

Poita
03-08-2011, 05:09 PM
The skies are clear tonight so I'll be giving the ed80 a go as well.

cookie8
03-08-2011, 07:07 PM
No problem focusing whatsoever with my 5" Orion Mak-Cass in conjunction of a 1.25"diagonal. With or without the supplied 1.6x barlow, it focuses beautifully and I have never seen Saturn so relaxing before. Now have to test it with the ED80....

cookie8
04-08-2011, 07:12 PM
No. ED80 has the same focusing problem as with the WO90 Megrez. Conclusion: most if not all refractors doesn't focus with WO binoviewers +/- the supplied 1.6x nose-piece and would need a seperate 2X barlow to achieve focus.
It sounds stupid and ridiculous that WO woild produce a binoviewer that wouldn't focus first up with their own refractors. Why don't WO supply a 2X nose piece instead of the 1.6x??

Waxing_Gibbous
05-08-2011, 12:57 AM
That's a great review, but stop using my name. :)
I've just got a pair of WOs, but I find them very light compared to my old Denkmeier IIs. This is especially useful as my scope, like yours is a cat and quite 'back-heavy'
I need an extension to bring them into focus with my f15, but I san see no optical degradation.

FWIW: Stick in a pair of 13mm Naglers or 16mm Brandons and really go to town on the moon!

Raybot (Ray)
05-08-2011, 12:28 PM
Hi Peter,

firstly thanks for the tip on the great deal that WO are currently running (courtesy of the strong AUD$ ).:thanx:
I took delivery of my Binoviewers on wednesday and managed to try them out.
As per Peters' review the binoviewers really provided the 'WOW' factor through my 8" dob; looking at the moon it really seemed as if I was in orbit at the x96 the nosepiece barlow provided, and, when I put it in tandem with my x2 shorty barlow, the view was still clear and stunning at x192.
I also swung the scope around to look at Saturn and have to say I have never seen it so clear. I'm not certain this was actually caused by better seeing, but suspect that I found the whole experience of viewing with both eyes so much more satisfying. Even my wife (after the usual protests of being too cold) stayed out for 30 mins just looking at the moon, and then came out later for an hour when I was looking at Saturn. That's a record folks !
So, in conclusion, I totally agree with Peter's review, the whole experience became much more satisfying for me (and my wife), can't wait to show it off this weekend if the weather holds.
Just one difference, in my Dob, I couldn't achieve focus without the supplied x1.6 eyepiece.
Anyway, looks like I have to start doubling up on my eyepieces, there's always a catch :P

cheers & happy viewing

Poita
05-08-2011, 07:11 PM
I'm just trying it with the York optical ED80 now, and it works fine both with and without the Barlow. About to try it with the star diagonal next.

Poita
05-08-2011, 07:20 PM
Okay, with the star diagonal and ed80 I can't get focus without the Barlow, it just can't travel far enough into the scope. If I put the Barlow on the end of the star diagonal that goes inside the ed80 then I can focus okay.

Raybot (Ray)
06-08-2011, 08:56 PM
Yep, same here, not enough inward play on the focuser, I'm wondering if an extension tube would help.
Overcast tonight and wallabies just got beat, so no fun :(

sopticals
07-08-2011, 04:27 PM
Yes, Williams Optics does have an extension tube which fits in between bino and 1.6x corrector and should do the job,if not you can add a filter body or two in line as well. And YES it was a good night last night the wallabies (wantabies) got BEAT.;)