Telescope and astrophotography package advice

[Ponch]

Hi everyone :)

I sold my LX50 today and am now looking at spending approximately $4000 on a new scope with accessories, so I can finally take some astropics.

I saw a list a little while ago about an astronomy starters pack and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on my request.

What I currently have is a Macbook which I can load up windows 7 and have an Olympus OM-1 but would prefer to go digital but old school is cool.

Any suggestions and input would be greatly appreciated.:help:

Thanks in advance.
:thanx::thanx:
Ponch

[renormalised]

What sort of objects do you want to take happy snaps of??. What do you want to concentrate on. Do you want to do wide field or narrow field shots (or both).

Steer away from film pics....it's much easier using a CCD or even a DSLR.

Try this for size...

SWED BD100.....$1000
EQ6..................$1400
Orion AG Pkg.......$420

All Up................$2820

Then get yourself a DSLR

[Ponch]

I would like to take snaps of both wide and narrow objects and was steering towards the CGEM800 and couple that with an Orion autoguider package.

Then use a Canon 450d or a Orion starshoot video camera or Mono/colour CCD camera.......but not sure.

This is all new to me as when I got right into it years ago I tried with no luck with the OM1.

[gregbradley]

Here are some simple guidelines to help you make a decision.

1. The mount is the most important part of your astroimaging setup.
2. Start with shorter focal length scopes and medium sized cameras like DSLRs. Using a short focal length scope and a really small chip like in a video camera is much the same as long focal length in the first place. It will show up all the tracking errors, noise etc. DSLRs are hard to beat as an entry point into imaging. You can also use the camera during the day. DSLRs to perform best need to be "modified" where the filter in front of the chip is replaced with a Baader one or clear optical glass. It makes them a LOT more sensitive. You can pick up modified Canon 350Ds for probably $400 these days. Incredible value. You'd probably even get them to throw in the adapters needed to insert the camera into the focuser of your scope.
3. Refractors are less fussy than mirrored scopes usually. They don't need collimation, they are lighter, smaller, less wind affected, they don't have spikes in the stars and they cool off easily and cut through the seeing better. There are many upgrade focusers if the focuser is not good enough.
4. Triplets are better than doublets. Apochromats are better than achromats. APO means apochromat which means the main colours all focus at the same point after going through the glass lens. Achromats do not and will show bright blue halos around bright stars.
5. Autoguiding is essential and a decent autoguider is vital. The Orion one appears to be very good (no reviews on it that I have heard though). The main thing is no flex. You want everything tight. If the autoguider setup bends even very slighty from something then it will cause eggy stars. So make sure everything is tight and strong.
6. Undermount your scopes don't put the heaviest possible scope on the lightest mount. See rule 1.

So the advice you were given in the first reply is very good.
100mm for a refractor with ED glass in the lens even though it is only a doublet it will still perform very well. ED means extra low dispersion. Dispersion here means the amount the colours split apart when going through the glass (and therefore the harder it becomes to make them come back to focus in the one spot later on).

$4000 is quite a bit and you should get something very good. You will also need a bit of software to process the images. Several here use Deep Sky Stacker. I am not 100% sure but I think it may be free. Images Plus is the Rolls Royce for DSLRs and it costs about $300 or so. Photoshop is also long term a really needed piece of software and very expensive.

Another possibility is to buy 2nd hand and your $4000 becomes $6500- $7000 new price. astromart.com is a good mart as is the marketplace on this site. Often people sell whole setups with images already taken with that exact setup so you know what it is capable of. Astro hobby people are generally nice and trustworthy types.

Greg.

[Barrykgerdes]

As someone who has spent over $50000 on astro gear. Put all your money into the best mount you can get. At a minimum an EQ6 Pro but preferably a G11, Titan, Vixen, Paramount etc.

A $400 Telescope on a good mount with a DSLR will give better results than a $6000 telescope on a cheap mount.

Barry

[oosh]

I've been lurking in this topic, and just wanted to also say thanks for the info - I plan on getting into imaging sometime down the track after I feel I've got a better understanding of astronomy in general, so it's good to see a thread with a heap of simple pointers that anyone can understand :) Cheers.

[Gem]

CGEM 800 would be a solid option. Given your budget you could still then buy a CCD (not top end) or DSLR. CGEM mount would be more than adequate for imaging when mounting something like a 200mm SCT.
I went the 235mm (9.25") rather than the 11" so that it would be more suited to the mount for imaging. I haven't imaged yet (that it next year's budget) but the CGEM mount is great so far.

[renormalised]

If you do decide to go for a mirrored scope, a good combo that I would suggest to you is to replace the SWED BD100 I first mentioned with a GSO RC8 ($1199 at Bintel). The FL is not too long (f8...1600mm) that it won't be too difficult to handle with a separate autoguider setup. However, if you have to go the OAG (Off Axis Guider) route, a good one that quite a few use is the Orion Deluxe OAG ($169). But as Greg has said, starting off with a short focus refractor will be easier. More forgiving, especially when it comes to guiding and guiding errors.

If you want a triplet refractor that will help come in under your $4000 budget, you may have to compromise on the aperture as a good 4" triplet will set you back at least $2500. So, you may have to go with a 80-90mm refractor. Even these can be pricey...(a WO FLT98CF will set you back $2999...the AL tube version is $2499), but you can get a Meade Series 5000 80mm apo for $950. The only apo of 4" I've seen at a "bargain basement" price is the Meade Series 5000, which is $1800. Most will be considerably dearer. But if you stretch your budget for a good 4" apo triplet, there are some really nice scopes on the market.

[renormalised]

The CGEM is a good medium sized mount. 18kg capacity, so you wouldn't want to go any larger than the 9.25" Celestron. A 10" Meade would be a tad too large...the Meades tend to be a kilo or two heavier than their equivalent Celestron scopes. Not only that, once you've added onto the mount the weight of your camera, guider/guidescope, cables, counterweights etc, you will be getting close to the 18kg limit. But it would handle a 4" refractor rather comfortably. The only bug would be the price ($2400), if you're also going to buy a 4" refractor.

[gregbradley]

For example:


http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=735836
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=735887
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=735687


The Canon 350D is already sold but they often come up and are often around that price as a guide.

Even including shipping a little bit of GST on the G11 you'd still have plenty left over from $4000.

There was even an Apple G4 with Photoshop CS2 in it for US$295. Thats a $1300 piece of software.

So the above would be the Orion ED100 for $599 (not sure how much they are here), a G11 and a Canon 350D. All you need is an autoguiding package and you are off.

The G11 is upgradeable as well.


Greg.

[renormalised]

Hadn't thought of the astromart classifieds...you'll pickup a good bargain from those.

The Orion ED80CF is $1049 here, so the ED100 would be quite a bit more expensive I would imagine (unless it's the doublet version).

EDIT: Just found out....at Sirius Optics (http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/orion_refract.htm), the ED100 is worth $995.

[Gem]

CGEM 800 implies an 8" Celestron SCT OTA on a CGEM mount. The original post said he had sold his Meade. You are right, Meade OTA are heavier than Celestron. A CGEM 800 is $3000, leaving $1000 to get a DSLR or an entry level CCD (Atik maybe?). :)

[renormalised]

About the only Atik CCD's you'll get for that price normally are the 16ic and 16ic-s. The others will be out of the price range. Although, Andrews have drop the price on the 314e to $999. However, you could pick up a DSI II colour imager, any of the DBK/DMK cameras, a GStar EX or EX CLR, Moravian G1-0300 or any other number of smaller cameras. Plus your DSLR's.

[dugnsuz]

My 2 cents...

EQ6 ($1400AU)
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

TMB-92 ($1495US + freight/import costs)
http://www.astronomics.com/main/product.asp/catalog_name/Astronomics/category_name/0jvw4bj3p5868n5e5dfh8je1q5/product_id/TMB92L

QHY5 (guide camera approx $200AU)
http://www.tan14.com/QHYCCD.htm

Bintel/GSO 50mm Finder ($70) as guidescope

Canon 40D body: ebay - < $700 for a good one
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canon-EOS-40D-10-5-8GB-card-car-battery-charger-/140564847504?pt=AU_Digital_Cameras&hash=item20ba515b90

Another $300-400 in accessories/hardware

Combo of sturdy mount and good glass would keep you happy imaging wise for a wee while. Most of the above (excluding the TMB scope) can be picked up 2nd hand around the traps quite frequently.

Good luck with your choice - thanks for indulging my fantasies!!!

Doug

[renormalised]

And that's a nice little setup there, Doug:)

Oh...and a 2 litre bottle of "cures what ails yer", for the cold nights:):P

[selste]

Hi,
another important question: Permanent setup (as in Backyard Observatory) or do You need to be mobile?
Anything on the heavy side of a G11 is not going to be much fun dragging around.
If You want to take the equipment on a trip easy and fast setup is mandatory - if it takes hours just to erect and polar-align the mount You're not going to enjoy Astronomy for long.
Still, as Greg said, the mount is the most important piece of equipment, so the best part of your budget should be spent on it.
Regards,

Steffen

[M_Lewis]

Nothing wrong at all with an EQ6, you dont' need to go to more expensive mounts to start with. The mount is very important though, it is the foundation of your experience each night. Once you hone your alignment skills for photography the EQ6's may sound a little gritty in their operation, but function very solidly.

If you're going down the DSLR route - dont' buy new, buy second hand, they always appear on the trades, but then you'll need to decide Nikon or Canon (and that in itself can potentially be another thread entirely).
Just don't buy a DSLR without realtime view (the live view output to a laptop real time). Otherwise, focusing is a !@#$

I personally recommend a refractor over anything else to image with as a portable setup. You dont' need to collimate, they are robust, no obstruction in view and often these days come with a nice carry case to protect it in transport. I started off with a skywatch ED80 a few years back, and am sorry I sold it, great little scope. The gold version or the black specled BD version are often available on trade, usually are priced good for 2nd buyers, but perform very well.

You'll also need a guide scope (commonly used is an ST80) or the harder option of OAG, so an autoguider is needed (Orion Starshoot autoguiders are great ~$400ish) with either option.

Add dew heaters, decent batteries/power supply, powered USB extensions, laptop (which you have) software etc.

Whilst $4k sounds like a lot, you'll find once you start buying all the needed accessories, it will be eaten up pretty quick unfortunately.

[gregbradley]

Good advice there from Mark.

Check this little baby out:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=736219

One of the best 100mm APOs out there most likely.

A real low price.

There was also a G11 for about US$1250.

Then the Orion autoguiding package, a 2nd hand DSLR and you may just squeak it in (pehaps another $400-550 needed).

Here's an example of what modified 2nd hand DSLRs go for ( I know its sold its just an example) (add say $100 for shipping and insurance -no GST as it is under $1000)

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=736144

One tip on dew heaters - I bought this simple wrap around dew preventer for my refractors. I basically is the same material as those windscreen sunscreens. A bit of velcro, wrap it around the tube where the lens is when you first setup and it keeps it a tade warmer than the surrounding air and prevents dew for a long time. Cheap as chips.

Greg.