starting out

[blackpearl]

Hi all. I have been lurking about this forum for a few days and have enjoyed the it immensely. I have learnt a lot, even why the magazine isn't out yet!
I often take visitors to the local observatory to look at the sky and so I want a telescope of my own to have in the yard and also take out of town to the farm and the dark sky. I also want to take photos. Budget was $1200 but could stretch to $2000
After researching magazines, other web sites and visiting Bintel in Sydney I like the look of the Dob 8-10 inches because of ease of learning to use a telescope, setting up, and still take basic photos (like icemans)
If I go for the serious photography I need a telescope with a motorised equatorial mount, a laptop, power supply (for out of town), and time to set it up.
Have I got it right?
Is there anything else I need to think about?

[Striker]

Welcome Blackpearl to the forums.....check this out....Ken has been doing some shopping for us...

http://www.iceinspace.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=759

Was posted today.....by ken

[blackpearl]

Hi Striker
The price is right and I'm willing to wait til March but will it fit in a Toyota Corolla. What is the size of one of those 12" Dobs?

[[1ponders]]

Welcome to the show blackpearl.

[RAJAH235]

Hi Guys, Welcome blackpearl. For a 12" dob, you may have to fit roof racks to your Toyota. The tube is approx. 5ft 6'' long!Tho you might just squeeze it in by putting the seat down.:2thumbs:
ps. Doesn't leave much room for the missus!

[ballaratdragons]

Blackpearl,

Hi and welcome,

The GS 12" Deluxe dobber at $999 is available now from a shop in Sydney called Andrews Communications Systems. Mine arrives in a day or two.

It is 145cm long, or 4 foot 9 inches, and the tube is 13" diameter.

It will fit sideways in larger cars or legthways in hatches etc. with a seat down. Or make a nice box and put in on the roof.

Whichever way, it's a bargain.

[iceman]

Hi blackpearl, :welcome: to the forum and glad to see you posting!

By the sounds of your first post, you've done your research and you've already got a good grip on what you'll need for the different aspects of this hobby.

A dob is a great starting scope, great for the beginners and great for kids too. Easy to setup, easy to transport, put it on the ground, point it, and you're ready to observe.

You can take basic photos with them, as I have done, either afocally with a digicam, or by using a webcam. If you're serious about getting full-blown into astrophotography, then perhaps you should consider a motor-driven EQ mount from the get-go, but you'd need to be sure that's the area of the hobby you wanted to get into, because that's where a lot of additional cost will come in..
Solid motor-driven EQ mounts (or fork-mount scopes likes the LX200) are expensive, and will cost at least 4 times what your 10 or 12" dob will cost. Add on the DSLR or other long-exposure camera, filters, time and patience, and the cost can be quite high.

If you're pretty sure that for the short-medium term you just want to take basic photos, then a dob will work fine. Either that, or look at getting the 10" newt on an undriven EQ6 mount. I think the EQ6 mounts are about $1600, and the 10" OTA probably another $700 or so.

Or, get a dob and plan to get (or make) an EQ platform in the future. Depends how handy you are at DIY stuff.

The 12" dob that the guys talked about above is a great price for a large aperture, no doubt about it. But it is bigger, longer and heavier than an 8" for $399 for example. The replacement focuser is a great upgrade, but you could also do that with an 8" or 10" as well.
I've got the 10", and it's true that the base and tube separately aren't *that* heavy that anyone with a moderate amount of strength would be able to move them around the yard, load the scope in the car, etc. It just fits sideways in the backseat of my hyundai excel, or longways with the backseat down in the family stationwagon.

The 12" is a longer tube, the base will be bigger, heavier, and the tube will be heavier (bigger mirror too). You have to think about portability around the house, transportation in the car etc.
I strongly suggest you get out to Bintel or Andrews and have a look at their 12" dobs, take a tape measure or measure your car first.. work out where and how you're going to transport it around the house and to a dark site before you buy one. You might be surprised or shocked about how big it is in real life.

When people see my 10" dob standing upright for the first time, they mistake it for a water heater.. the 12" will be even more so!

But, if you can overcome those issues, the 12" will be a great scope for the price, tonnes of aperture and the ability to do mods on it for years!

Good luck and keep us informed!

[rmcpb]

My little bit would be to remember that the best scope is one that is used. I know that the 12" is a great price and very tempting BUT its huge and not easily transported, especially if you are planning on taking it to the farm by car and the load includes a family. Just carrying the beast out into the backyard is much harder and the cooldown times are longer.

My suggestion for a first scope would be not to go above 10" and seriously consider an 8". The 8" is easy to carry out into the yard and is a boarderline grab and go scope but if you take it out into dark skies it will really blow your little eyeballs out!!

My point is, to consider transportability and storage before you buy. Its better to have a slightly smaller scope that is easily transported and does not take up the lounge room than a great big one that can become a hassle, especially for your first scope.

Cheers

[Starkler]

You could always buy the 12 incher and leave it at the farm and get something more portable or with tracking/eq mount for home :)

A big dob can be transported but as rmcpb says, it doesnt leave much room for anything else in the car.

[blackpearl]

Thank you for your responses, you reinforce what I was thinking.
Iceman and Rob mentioned an equatorial platform - what is this??

[Striker]

Here is a picture....someone else can explain as I have never had one nor have the experience....but once setup it enables you to guide/follow your target.

[Striker]

For example the picture below is just like a 8" dobsonian but on a Equatorial mount...

OMG I am starting to sound like a pro....and it feals good.

[janoskiss]

No Striker, that's not an EQ platform but an EQ mount.

An EQ platform is specifically made for Dobs. Just google for more info (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=equatorial+platform&btnG=Search). One problem with most designs is that they have to be custom made for specific latitude, so they are restricted to a narrow range of latitudes.

[Striker]

Dam......I thought a EQ mount would be more appropriate then a Platform I don't think you can even purchase a platform.....oh well my mistake...

[janoskiss]

Yes, mount is probably better, it's just that blackpearl's question was about platforms... Good platforms are probably as expensive as mounts and not as versatile because they're latitude specific. On the other hand, it'd probably be easier to build a sturdy platform than a mount. I imagine that the kind of precision needed for astrophotography would be a big challenge either way.

[iceman]

EQ platforms are rarely (if ever) accurate enough for long exposure astrophotography.

A good EQ platform for visual use and a bit of planetary/lunar photography is far cheaper than a good EQ mount for long exposure work.. the difference is in the $1000's (more like, $3000-$5000 difference).

If I ever get (or build) an EQ platform, it will be for visual use (nothing worse than having to realign inbetween showing people Saturn) as well as imaging the planets and the moon.

[ving]

robin i think it is over at AO forum uses a eq platform with a dob to image DSOs ice.... its doable

[Starkler]

Yep ive heard of super duper EQ platforms with a second motor to adjust the tilt as an equivalent of a declination drive.

[rmcpb]

An equatrial platform is basically part of a cone set up for your latitude that has the top cut off so when it is aligned to south and moved it allows tracking of objects over time with a dob. They are suitable for photography if set up correctly and I have seen some photos from them where the exposure was measured in minutes but I wuld think they are more suitable for shorter exposure photos.

Cheers

[ving]

you work for andrews dont ya! come on admit it! :P
:lol2:

[ballaratdragons]

I wish!

Was a youth worker to violent kids for 19 years but now I'm a bloody Rugby League coach, and gettin to old to do it!

Just want to kick back and enjoy my astronomy these days. It's quiet, peaceful, yet exciting.

[blackpearl]

Just luv this site but I am not good with the fancy stuff (smileys, quotes etc so shall do my best!
ps. Doesn't leave much room for the missus! from Rajah -
I am the missus and no kids at home now Rajah so it will be me and my dob!
robin i think it is over at AO forum uses a eq platform with a dob to image DSOs ice.... its doable - Ving
What and where is 'AO forum'?

Think I'll go with the 12' - Dad already planning the trolley to put it on (idea from Iceman)- I have to clean out the laundry for a space to store it- (there goes a linen cupboard!!)
And if Silvinator can live next door to a Tennis court and moderate the Astrophotography thread, I can cope with my backyard!
thanks again guys
This is fun and I haven't even got my Dob yet

[ballaratdragons]

Pearl,

If you are going to store your scope in the laundry beware of moisture collecting on the mirrors from Clothes dryer etc. Laundry wouldn't be my first choice but you have to fit it somewhere I guess.

If you want smilies etc. click on 'Preview Reply' below after you have typed your message. :)


<b>Edit: Before everyone jumps on me about the moisture bit - Laundry moisture carries Gazillions of microscopic fluff particles.</b>

[Starkler]

Mine lives in the garage on top of a tarp so the base doesnt get wet, with an old bedsheet over the top to keep dust off.
My latest trick is a plastic grocery bag on the rear end to keep spiders out of the mirror cell :)

[ballaratdragons]

Hey Geoff,

Shower caps keep Spidie out really good! Use em on both ends. (and you can get flowery ones)

[blackpearl]

Sounds like a new thread to me - where to store the Dob??
Ok Laundry is out. the family/lounge is next choice, then the garage. My area has summer temps of up to 40 degrees (evaporative air conditioning) and winter down to 0 degrees (wood burning heating). garage not safe - villians at large at night.
May need to ditch clothes drier!!:confuse3:

[ballaratdragons]

Pearl,

Laundry will be o.k. if the scope is well protected from moisture, fluff, dust, spiders, mozzies, burgulars, cholera and flu.

It should be o.k. in the laundry if you seal each end and cover it up. :rain:

[blackpearl]

Thanks heaps coach
Hope your dob arives before the weekend:astron:

[ballaratdragons]

You been reading my profile you snoop. ;)

Yep, Grandpa the footy coach!:violin:

My 12" better get here on friday or I have to wait till Monday :sad:

[Starkler]

Shower caps Ive seen arent big enough to fit the 10 incher, considering the tube is 12 inch in diameter and peoples heads dont come that fat ...... well normal people that is :)

[ballaratdragons]

My youngest daughter is 13 and I am going to use her shower caps. I checked for a 13" tube and they will fit.

They are a cheap pack of 7 from Bi-Lo for $2

[RAJAH235]

Hi Bbbbllaacckkppeeaaarrrllll, So SORRY. It's a natural reaction. Can't see anyone on these forums. I profoundly appologise for my error.
(does this sound like grovelling)?
Plastic covers of any kind are better than cloth, which lets the dust/spidys/bugs thru. :love2:
RULE #1. APERTURE WINS.
RULE #2. " " " " " " " ".
MAGIC Number = 50.
(Max. theoretical mag. of t'scope, is Aperture in inches X by 50. e.g. 10" x 50 = 500x). Most viewing is done between say, 35x and 300x.
I/we recommend an 8" as minimum, but a 10" is better. If big car/budget, 12" or whatever fits. :2thumbs:
ps. Don't opt for the cheaper E/Ps. Buy 1 or 2 good ones to start + good Barlow.

[gaa_ian]

Now Ill have to add shower caps to my list of must have accesories :P

[ballaratdragons]

Make sure they are the ones with flowers on them. Great conversation piece! :D

[ving]

hey big spender! :P

sounds good actually :)
time to go shopping

[ballaratdragons]

Shower cap even fits my Avatar! Cooool!

[ving]

:lol2:

gawd thats funny!

[rumples riot]

Welcome to the forum Blackpearl, the decision that you are making needs to be made carefully. With $2000.00 you can get a very good setup, Each type has its problems and you need to weight them up. I do however, recommend that you get a scope that can guide. This will prove valuable later when your needs change and for the iterim will mean you can centre and object and look at it without moving the scope by hand.

Good luck with your decision. If you want any advice in regard to SCT scopes you can PM me. I don't want to be seen to advertise any brand, I am not getting paid by them and I can give a more honest assessment.

[RAJAH235]

Lovely colour Ken!!! Do you use it to keep the glare down as well???
:evil:

[ballaratdragons]

<b>LATEST UPDATE</b>

<b>SHOWER CAPS</b>



Well my 12" arrived. :)

Grabbed the shower cap and . . . . .

it didn't fit! :confuse3:

Questioned my daughter about this and she said it was a different shower cap. Phew!

Got the right one and discovered it's a Mutant!! It fits but it's the only one in the pack that does.
:confuse2:
Oh well, I'll use it anyway.

Stuck it on, Yay . . . it works! :P


Tried to pull it up further for a good fit and . . . . . . . . . .














I ripped a bloody great hole in it! :eek:

Some folks never win.


Gonna buy some more. :2thumbs:

[RAJAH235]

Thanks for the good laugh, Ken. Just imagined you doing it. Anticipated some prob. Murphy or Homer. :doh:

[Starkler]

Ken where do you get them ?

I want one just like the one in my avatar :)

[ballaratdragons]

Bi-Lo, but the cheapies only come in 'Clear'.

WATCH OUT, THEY RIP!!!!!