The Fighting Dragons of Ara - AG12

[strongmanmike]

Still under a moon and heavy light pollution so we have here another narrowband image (sorry Doug, Marcus et al :sadeyes:)

This time it is the Fighting Dragons in Ara (aka NGC 6188 & 6164)

I have always admired the look of the narrow band work by Emanuelle Colognato and Keith Quattrocchi and with that in my mind (no reference image was used during processing though - just memory) I came up with the following...

The seeing was better than the previous test image sessions, for at least some of the night and I managed to go pretty deep (6 hours) and get all the data in one night - exactly why I got this AG12 (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/ag12_testing)! :thumbsup:

Fighting Dragons of Ara (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134900873/original)(small 1500 X 1500pix)

Fighting Dragons of Ara (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134900874/original)(Large 2020 X 2020pix)

The bubble halo around NGC 6164 (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134900875/original) (80% full res crop)

See the whole album here: http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/gallery/ngc_6188__ngc_6164

Hope you like'em :prey: :lol: :innocent:

Mike

[Mighty_oz]

Exquisite :)

[DavidU]

Whhoohh ! Spectacular & sharp.Well done.

[Lester]

Thanks for the wonderful view Mike. All the best.

[renormalised]

Great shots, Mike:)

Two dragons fighting over the prize:)

[h0ughy]

the stars look a little bloaty (well not so much as bloat but very soft - not sharp and i know the seeing here has been real crud) but man what an impact - very noice Mr Sidonio. it almost - almost makes me wish i had a huge mono beasty like yours, but that would never replace the skills of the user AND PROCESSING.

I had no idea that the S nebula had a shock wave like that!

[Ric]

Wonderful image Mike

Very dramatic and spectacular.

[multiweb]

Love the image scale and the details. Particularly the expanding shell around the bi-polar nebula. I got only one in the Ha channel, the one that has a tint of brown in your pic. The others looked like they're mapped to blue does it mean ithe rest are more prominent in the Oiii channel?

[Hagar]

After your introduction I was almost scared to have a look at this but how much damage can you do to this section of sky. I was pleasantly surprised, not as gnarly a colour scheme as I had expected.
Narrow band definitely lifts all the highlights and shadows beautifully and this image is no exception.
Lovely Mike..... detail, detail, detail. Great stuff.

[Bolts_Tweed]

Mate - not bad for little fella ;)

I dont comment often but I have to on this. It really reminds me of a Don Goldman APOD from a few years ago. Dons was with a 24 inch RCOS from memory (and probably a ST11K - but I forget). I asked him at the AIC last year about the image and the best hint he gave me was that if I wasnt taking 30 minute subs in nb then I should be. Am I reading it right? 10 minute subs - says a lot about something doesnt it. To get that outer shell of 6164/5 in Ha in 10 min subs the way you have it is just great.

Nice colour balance as well. Really nice mate.

I'll send a pm tonight about a bio :)

Mark

[allan gould]

Sublime any other words are superfluous.

[strongmanmike]

Yay! you like it :cool:...never can tell sometimes with narrow band:question: ...everything is an experiment :lol:

Thanks everyone who has commented :thumbsup:

Marc: yes there outer shell is very strong in OIII so the combination of Ha and OIII completes the ring :thumbsup:

Doug: Phew, you were one I hoped would like it...the other one is Marcus :D

Mark Bolton, 30min subs hey :question: :lol:...not even 10min mate, this was done with just 5min subs :D..I have me a 12" Schmidt camera :P :thumbsup:
..err?..yeh, I'll get my bio of to you pronto :ashamed: woops :whistle:

Mike

[Bassnut]

Excellent Mike, the size and detail is stunning.

[danielsun]

Incredible image Mike, never seen this region so busy. Amazing colours and truly spectacular!! :thumbsup:

Cheers Daniel.

[Bolts_Tweed]

5 mins - damn I hate you Mr Sid. I was happy with my gear. I am joking my wife would force me to soprano if I bought another scope. Then again I could p0ut up with a squeaky voice.

M

[Moon]

Mike,
Another wonderful image. Keep 'em coming.
James

[Aris Greece]

This is an amazing picture!!! Good job!!!
So jealous not to have the ability
to be there.... !!!
Try hard and I' ll be watching you...!!! ;)

[allan gould]

Where you get these crazy names, Grasshopper?

[John Hothersall]

Another class image, love the strong SII, 80% resize is a little soft but good seeing will happen one day.

John.

[suma126]

brilliant love it well done :).

[DavidTrap]

5min subs - you'll run out of things to image before long. Pace yourself grasshopper!

Very impressive - I can actually make out the dragons too! Not like that silly running chook...

DT

[RobF]

Just wonderful Mike. Loved it all, but spent ages looking at the colours and detail around NGC 6164. Bring on the future if you can do this with 5min subs I say. Not much fun getting enough 30min subs for each filter to dither out the noise but that's what people have always had to do in the past to get top class work I guess.

[strongmanmike]

Wow, gee, so glad you all like it :P :)

Yes, getting this with just 5min subs and all in one moon lit night from the city is pretty cool and exactly the reason I grabbed this scope in the first place :D, the field of view is great and provides so many options. I have flattened the field by increasing the spacing slightly with some plastic gaskets (Orion will be providing a new adapter - they are great to deal with!) :thumbsup:

It was a dew ladden night too but the inbuilt OTA heating left the primary and secondary mirrors and corrector front element all bone dry in the morning - phew.

The NJP mount was again unperturbed by the load too, returning sub arc sec autoguiding without a problem.

Dave: I have a big field but without an observatory... I think Greg, with his at least 4 scopes, two cameras and two observatories, is in no danger of having to pass over the imaging machine baton any time soon :lol:

Rob: I don't dither, never have...?

Mike

[gregbradley]

A terrific image Mike. I like it. I don't think I have ever seen NGC6188 look so transparent like that. My favourite part of this area is the twisty gas/dust section and it really stands out in your image. Also that shock wave around the small flower looking neb is well defined.

Very nice. All the stars look perfectly round so it looks like your understanding of your new scope has increased. It can take a while to understand the requirements of different gear.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Greg, I am just so happy that everyone likes it :P...I was really happy with how it was coming together but then I thought my jaggered raw meat core Eta Carina looked ok :lol: :sadeyes:

Yes the nuaunces of a new system take some time to refine, still some tweaking to do but I think I'll get there :thumbsup:

Mike

[iceman]

Brilliant image Mike. I reckon it's one of the best, if not the best, image of I've seen of this area of sky.

Congrats!

It's now IOTW (http://www.iceinspace.com.au).

[strongmanmike]

He he, looks good as a thumbnail on the front page actually Mike, the depth kinda seems more obvious? Glad you liked it :)

Cheers

Mike

[jjjnettie]

Such a beautiful image Mike. I love it!

[adman]

Jesus! Mike! You seem to just dash these off like you are taking a happy snap. I am working on a theory that you actually just repro Hubble data....;)

Adam

[CoolhandJo]

Epic shot!

[avandonk]

Looks like you will be able to do even more with this scope Mike. The fact you captured the faint bubble so well is the evidence. I can't wait to see how dim dust comes up with deep RGB's. I would guess that even the black bits will come up dust coloured.

Here is an animated gif with your image and one of my colour images at 300mm and f/3.6. 4MB

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.com.au/2011_05/mike6188.gif

Below is your image on mine. My image is 7X4.6 degrees. The AG12 also looks very rectilinear to me. Quite a feat for a 12" fast reflector and corrector.

Bert

[telecasterguru]

Very pretty indeed.

[SkyViking]

Congratulations Mike, that's a superb image. The framing, colours, depth and sharpness is all great. I was not familiar with this nebula, but I can certainly see the dragons and the bubble in the corner just looks amazing.

I noticed the halos are almost gone too, did you find out the reason or did you do some processing on them?

[multiweb]

Congrats on IOTW. Well deserved! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I have a template to go by for mine now. I'm starting to shoot the Oiii tonight and this week-end by the look of it (hopefully). I hope to get some of those three other shock fronts on the wolf-rayet star.

PS: Isn't your picture mirrored?... or I need another coffee?..

[bmitchell82]

Ahh, the power of Newtonian optics. Bucket loads of resolution, Bucket loads of light with a field to boot an aerial ping pong ball in.

Great job Mike I now want to see if my little baby 10" can pick up the wolf ryat star and its shock wave! my FOV and FL should capture the area quite well. All i have to do is wait for these clouds to nick off! Cool nights, No wind. 100% cloud :(

1 for the wide field mirrored whoos's :thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

You have done a fine job on this Mike, the colours are nicely done, obviously your investment has paid off, I await in anticipation one of your marathon efforts.

[marc4darkskies]

Yeah good job mate! A very impactful image! Great FOV and colour selection is easy on the eye ;).

Cheers, Marcus

[RobF]

Congrats on a well deserved IOTW Mike

Re quote above, I should really have said "smooth out the noise", but interesting you don't dither at all. I thought it was a rather nice concept for handling dirty sensors or dodgey pixels, albeit at requirement for extra settling time. Not as necessary with top notch gear though I guess.

[alexch]

Amazing image, Mike! It took me some time to get used to the colour palette but I think it works very well with the "dragon" theme and would look brilliant in a large print on canvas.
Being ignorant I can't comment on technical aspects of narrowband imaging and processing but I like this image a lot.
The shockwave bubble is something you don't see every day.

Thanks for sharing.

:bowdown:

Alex

[strongmanmike]

Wow overwhelming response guys, very cool :thumbsup:

won't reply to everyone (I'm lazy) but I did read'em all.

Rolf - The Halos are still there, depending on the Brevil blending the halos vary in intensity and yes I processed them down but not out (no matter what I do I don't like the look of the completely de-processed star halos)

Interesting animation Bert but I am not quite sure of the exact reason, are you just showing where it is in the larger field..?

Marc - there's no up or down in space ;)

Brendo - go for it, it's there for the bagging :thumbsup:

Marcus - I sense some trepidation in your voice :question: :thumbsup:

Alex - off you knees mate, I am still on mine :P..when this image wins me a ride..?...on Richard Bransons space ship :shrug: :lol: THEN you can get on your knees fella :)

Thanks all for the nice comments, especially frojm those that found it hard to be positive about a couple of flying lizzards in vomit narrowband :P

Mike

[Alchemy]

I Like the shells around 6164, I've seen them before but not in narrowband that I can remember. Good to see you putting the new scope to good use.

[avandonk]

Mike just wanted to see what faint detail you could capture where my image was effectively black. Narrow band does give an indication of where the dust is as it modulates the emission brightness by attenuation. I made the gif for that so it was just as easy to post it. I also wanted to get a visual idea of the huge field you have for the focal length you have. A picture is worth a thousand words. It also shows me what I am failing to record.

Bert

[RobF]

I missed this animation before Bert - sure is a good advertisement for the extra detail NB can bring out (when processed well with great data too of course)

[strongmanmike]

Oh I see Bert, fair enough, it's reasonably revealing but the comparison was with a much smaller instrument, that was all.

Cheers Clive, yeh, the new scope is pretty good really.

Mike

[avandonk]

Around here my 'instrument' is considered quite large Mike. Although I did not know we were playing in a cathedral!

Bert

[strongmanmike]

Amen :D

[adman]

gotta love Billy!

[richardo]

Loved the hi res Mike, outstanding considering you were working under Newie skies... that, you gotta love NB imaging!

I do love narrow band provided the palette is tasteful.
This is certainly one area that just screams for narrow band and you've done a great job showing some really tantalising areas!

I wasn't aware that NGC 6164 and its Wolf Rayet star had this ejecta bubble.. exquisite!
Also great orientation to get the extent of Ngc 6188's 'Wall' in as well...

Well done Migel!!
And a well deserved image of the week!:thumbsup:

All the best
Rich

[batema]

I think this is an amazing image but I also wonder how it all comes together. 6 Hours worth of imaging in one night, 6 different channels of data, some fantastic imaging equipment and I am asuming amazing processing skills. God I wish I had that ability. I looked at this last night in amazement that an ammature astronomer is producing images that if I showed someone they would probably think the Hubble telescope took it. I am rabbiting on now but I am honestly blown away. Well done and if you ever need anyone to make you coffee on a night when you do some more imaging let me know and I will come down from Queensland as long as I can watch you process it as well. Average seeing. Can you imagine if it was good.

Mark

[atalas]

Nice work Mike....the expanding shells look great.

[Peter Ward]

Resolution wise...looks a little soft to me....and welcome to the club... I've come to the conclusion any aperture over 20cm gets hit by seeing more oft' than not.

I do like the capture of the halo around NGC6164... a hard sucker to grab from the 'burbs (i.e. my neck of the woods) at the best of times.

Very nicely done :thumbsup:

[TheDecepticon]

Congrats on a great image!:eyepop:

I know you were doing it from a very polluted site, however, your stars don't look quite right.

I would like to see what you can get with this setup from a dark site, however, I still think your AP refractor images are better.

New scope and all still, so can't wait until you settle right in.

Cheers,

Gray.:)

[avandonk]

I promised myself to never ever have any words to PW ever again. But I will now digress.

You say the image is soft peter? Compared to an f/10 RC?
A very stupid comparison.

Seeing has nothing to do with aperture. Another myth!

I will hate myself in the morning.

Bert

[Peter Ward]

Pure BS Bert.

You are confusing visual observation (aperture wins every time) vs imaging conditions (why the pros are located at Mona Kea/ Chile etc. )

I can take images of needle like stars night after night with a 55mm Takumar lens, and never know the concept of "seeing"

Take it with a 300mm aperture.....and Mona Kea starts to look like a good retirement option.

[Kal]

What a treat to view, thanks Mike! :thumbsup:

[alan meehan]

Mike what a wonderful shot you give me hope that there is something to view in our newcastle skies
AL

[strongmanmike]

Thanks again guys for all the nice comments :thumbsup:

Things are progressing nicely with the scope, as has been mentioned it is a new scope and no unpack and play APO here...I already have one of those :lol:...this is a light collecting Hoover but needs more patience, bit like a Ferrari, a touch outa tune and it may as well be a Commodore (still a nice car) :P

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Hi Mark

Very gald you enjoyed the image so much.

As a portable imager, who sets up for each session, the biggest attraction for me to go with this AG12 was the opportunity to take full LRGB or SIIHaOIII deep images in a single clear night. Although a razzor sharp peformer, the Starfire with it's miserly 6" of apperture and slow F8.3 focal ratio made completing deep images in a single night basically impossible. Having to come back and do it all again another night on the same object was rather off putting at times.

Sure there is a bit of work composing an SIIHaOIIIRGB image but the results are usually worth the effort and under city skies is often the only option especially with a moon in the sky.

You are welcome to come and do an imaging session, if you are ever in Newcastle get in touch. As for watching the processing ...the Fighting Dragons image took basically an entire day to compose..with a few breaks thrown in of course, so you may get bored watching me process :lol:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Hi Richi poo

So happy you liked the image mate. Your recent, more traditional version of the wall was a mighty fine image and I enjoyed it very much too :thumbsup:

A fast Newt is pretty cool huh?..with a Sao biscuit sized chip at the focus it provides so many options too ;)
Mike

[Tandum]

Stunning image mike and all in one night. I've been plugging away at this one as well, after doug's post and when weather permits, with a 102mm F6 refractor and 20min binned x2 subs are short on data :( You've got me looking at low F reflectors again :(

[Doomsayer]

Really like the aesthetics of that composition and the textures/colours. Getting steady air around Newcastle is a challenge, let alone persistent coastal cloud - I just moved my 12"RC way inland to try and improve things. Even so, the Newcastle sky off the coast can still seem amazingly dark when the air is 'clear' and transparency up. Getting your AG to a dark location with steady air might tell a different story, as you would be contemplating no doubt.
guy

[Paul Haese]

Just found this.

Fantastic colours (despite NB). Tonally fantastic (perhaps I am a becoming an NB fan :eyepop:), with georgous detail.

Probably your best image ever I think. I often gaze at your images and wonder how I can get even close to these. This is I feel another step up from some of your previous wonderous images. Nice benchmark and I would suggest this scope is looking the goods.

Stunning image and I would expect to see that at DM awards.:thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Robin

Yeh mine was 5min subs bin 1X1 so the aperture and speed certainly makes a difference :thumbsup:..low F reflectors have there place ;)

Mike



Cheers Guy

Is the 12" RC up and running yet?

Hmmm?..I have to say, even with the light pollution and ordinary to poor seeing it seems to experience, it will certainly be hard to leave my mums backyard..:question:..I have kinda got used to the narrwoband stuff...aaaand the TV and hot soup in the microwave at midnight and the three steps to the garage to packup..not to mention 5min drive home :doh::lol:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Well Paulie...you have just made my day! thankyou :thumbsup:

As for the DM's.:question: well, my Orions Sword didn't rate even a distant secondary note of reference by DM last year but then went on to nearly win the Eureka's, was second at SPSP, is my No.1 selling image to people from around the World, has made me half the value of the AG12 back already and is now going to hang in Canberra at the National Science Centre...so, as we have discussed before, nothing is a given in this game of ours..beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)..and I am perfectly cool with that :)

Mike

[Doomsayer]

RC is nearly there. Much to do with a remote controlled rig - mind you, my partner in crime is the main one doing the techie work at the moment. I have also gotten used to having the armchair setup in the backyard, which I still have, plus the remote one in development.
g

[venus]

Gee I'm glad I wandered onto this site today it's made my day.
Amazing image genius!

[ausastronomer]

Hi Mike,

Absolutely stunning image.

Whilst I quite often take a peek at the astro images posted, I rarely comment as I don't image myself and really don't know much about it, other than how to waste rolls of Kodak Ektachrome through an Olympus OM-1. It's a whole new world these days and I don't have enough time to scratch my butt, let alone spend hours processing images, hence I am happy with a dob and an eyepiece.

I do know quality when I see it and everything you do is excellent. This image IMO is just something exceptional and takes things to the next level. Congrats on an absolute cracker.

Cheers,
John B

[strongmanmike]

Lydia and John

I am so happy that you enjoyed the image so much, the hours spent capturing and compiling images like this one is well worth the effort when people enjoy them so much, it's a great feeling, thankyou :thumbsup:

John, I used an Olympus OM1 and Ektachrome myself...ah sigh..they were the days :lol:...and I would LOVE a decent dob, I miss viewing and often when I am capturing my image data I have nothing to do, a nice dob nearby would be just the ticket :thumbsup:

Mike

[Stevec35]

That's a stunner Mike! One of your best ever I would think.

Cheers

Steve

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Steve, yes it's seeming that way :question: :thumbsup:

Still have a soft spot for my Cen A though :love:...started the repro revolution :lol:

Mike

[Ken Crawford]

Very nice Mike, I have always believed that NB rules and 6 filter images produce the most stunning results. The dynamic range of that type of data is huge and really shows structures and details as well as amazing depth of field.

On the color blend side the only personal point is I do like to make sure there is no weakly supported Ha that results in green nebula. There is lots of discussion about this and other points in the US Narrowband processing forums. Narrowband images will continue to be the source of great debates as it allows so much freedom of processing choices. That is why we call it technical art!

This image shows all the marks of a well planned and processed 6 filter NB image.

[strongmanmike]

Thanks for the comments Ken :thumbsup:

Re the colour pallet, in my opinion the colour pallets pioneered by Richard Crisp et al are the most sound scientifically, unfortunately they are not as aesthetic as other combinations so the argument about what colour pallet is the best comes down to semantics and personal prefference...like discussing a new carpet for the lounge with your wife :lol:

Mike

[Ken Crawford]

Understood .. .

At AIC we had the top Hubble image processors a couple of times and of course they were doing NB well before any amature renderings. Their approch to this is if you are purely doing science then we would not introduce RGB and we have to watch how we stretch each frame as well as the combine strengths.


Many times when I do narrow band I will send my results to Zolt Levay and Dr. Travis Rector for their professional thoughts as I know I push the limits of color with my data. It is always interesting to hear their advice on what tweaks they would make. I always find kind attention to their own personal tastes. It is important to have mentors and friends who can give heart felt advice.

Forums like this are a great place to test the waters with images to understand how others see our work. These types of discussions are very useful and it is one of great part of our hobby. That is were the technical art comes in and as you say, personal taste and the goals of the presenation becomes the front of mind in processing choices.

Keep up the great work Mike, your passion for your work shows and it is infectious to all . . .

[strongmanmike]

HST imagers huh? :eyepop:..be good to get that level of feedback Ken, noice :thumbsup:.

You covering narrowband at AAIC?

Mike

[Higbyrichard]

You are a bloody worry Mike.

It's an exquisite wide field image like this through a new scope that reminds me there is no excuse having a portable setup. Your persistent dedication on cold nights shines through leaving me and others in your wake. I need to try harder. :bowdown:

Cheers

Richard.

[strongmanmike]

He he, on ya Richard, thanks for the kind sentiments ;)

... yes it is a challenge at times being portable, just this Friday gone was a good case in point. I knocked off work early to get all setup before dark, it takes a while to set everything up, especially, as you say, becasue I have a new yet to be standaradised outfit. After all the setup darkness fell...in came the cloud, took a couple of test exposures and cloud became 100% then in the beam of my headlamp I saw fine water particles..fuuuuuuuuu. Now picture a 300lb astronomer charging around, shutting down computers, inplugging, unwrapping, unwinding, unscrewing, unfriggin everythinging cables tied together, trying to make sure I didn't try and remove anything before unpluging it first, thinking what do I least want to get wet...aaarggggg

I litteral just made it, packed up in record time, a solid spit had started as I removed the OTA from its cradle and rain came as I was covering the mount. maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan...friggin close, huffing and puffing I stood dumbfounded and sweating in my mums garage saying fu fu fu!!!

You guys with an observatory are soooo lucky out there :thumbsup:

Mike