12'' collapsible dobsonian telescope with extras - DO NOT SEND MONEY

[jamesastro]

** THIS IS NOT A LEGITIMATE SALE. THIS SELLER HAS BEEN BANNED.

For sale i have my 12'' Skywatcher dobsonian,i have had it for a year now and due to illness i am unable to use it anymore,it is in good condition as it has been very well looked after. it comes with 25mm,15mm,9mm,4mm plossyl eyepieces and a x2 barlow lense.
Im asking for $500 ono as i need to sell due to bills.
Thanks

[Allan_L]

pm sent

[Skuppy]

Hi Allan

any idea on freight costs to Melbourne ?
What is the total weight ?

regards

Chris

[iceman]

To anyone interested in this scope, do not send any money and do not buy from this person.
It is the same scammer that was reported in this thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75232).

This new user has been banned.

[lolthrash]

holy crap, I pm'd this guy with interest too......... :\

[Skuppy]

Damn I got done $550
kiss goodbye getting a scope now
lucky I have paid with paypal
I have just opened a dispute with paypal now
lets see what happens.......

[Skuppy]

So we cant know for sure if any of these items for sale are fair dinkum !!

[iceman]

Definitely try and use paypal to get your money bank.
And if anyone paid by bank deposit, contact your bank immediately (first thing in the morning) to get them to put a stop to the transfer.

[casstony]

It's mostly new members that you have to be concerned about and the vast majority of those are honest. You can look back through posts made by established members to get an idea of legitimacy. Just use common sense - in this case it was the members first post and he offered the item at a price that was too cheap - such items should be considered pick up only to be safe.

[ballaratdragons]

No Tony, it was only his 1st post in his new name.
He has been a member in here for 2 years, but was banned for ripping people off and fraud. The Police have been notified.
Today he re-registered under another user name, so he is actually an old member, not a new one. :thumbsup:

Read this thread about him: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75232

[bartman]

Common Sense still prevails.......
A few quick PM's to a moderator to check the validity of a "new" poster ( especially after only one - or a few- post(s) ) might be the way to go.....
The Moderator might have ( as in this case) some useful information.......
I hope Moderators will agree with this, even though it might put some extra PM's in their inbox :(
Bartman

[ballaratdragons]

I'm surprised that a new member can sell at all.
3 months membership and minimum 20 posts or something is the norm elsewhere.
But I think this point has been covered tons of times already.

[Allan_L]

I thought something was amiss when I mentioned that I was close enough to come and see it and got no response even though i could see he was still online and active.

[casstony]

I'm aware of the guys history Ken - I was referring to how the post appeared prior to Mike's warning - first post, price too good to be true.

[casstony]

Or was it an extra $50 for shipping - you know what they say about assumptions Allan :).

[Allan_L]

Good Point.
Assumption retracted

[lolthrash]

Same deal with me mate, offered to come up and check it out, no reply at all.

[jjjnettie]

have any of the other aussie astro forums been made aware of this individual?

[Octane]

It's obvious the police can't do anything, otherwise, this particular piece of garbage wrapped in skin wouldn't still be pulling this caper.

You'll get yours, you oxygen thief.

H

[lolthrash]

sounds like a few of the members on here local to this guy need to go and sort it/him out once and for all :lol: :question:

[iceman]

He sold the first time through AstroBuySell too.
This same ad is listed on AstroBuySell now too.

[mozzie]

yep real good isn't it !!!!!
mate if your still online go and get a real job instead of ripping people who work for there money you grub...

edit: if need be moderators!!!!!!

[Heath]

I had a similar experience when looking at an advertised scope on another forum. They advertised as local but then emailed a story that they were infact interstate. It turned out they were from Africa nad had a very sophisticated dummy DHL website to trap you into thinking the item was sent so you pay for it's release from the courier. I did not get ripped as I smelled a rat.
It is sad but unfortunately we have to be dubious these days as scammers are everywhere. Brand new members on here may be genuine but you can never be certain. If using other mediums then apply some common sense and don't be shy carrying out some due diligence.

For big ticket $$ items

1. Anytime you are local to the sale, ask if you can pick it up and pay COD. If they say no, then it possibly could be scam

2. If interstate ask for a contact number and speak directly to the seller. Ask for a landline number not a mobile and get some personal information, name, address and bank details etc. Check for the name under listed numbers in the whitepages and their name against the bank details. If it is not their name on the bank account or in the white pages, it could be a scam, ask why?

Sad I know, but even sadder when you get ripped off by this sort of scum

[koputai]

Having the persons real details does not help. I was ripped off on the big
auction site when buying an expensive lens. All his details looked good,
but the item never arrived, and the item was sold twice again.

I had his home address, which matched up with the White Pages. I also
had his bank details, but didn't use them. I paid by Paypal. I opened a
dispute, and after about a month got my money back from Paypal, as
they said they were able to regain the funds from the seller.

So really, it doesn't matter how much personal info you have on the
seller, they may still be a theif. Our guy, like others, is just a plain
stupid, bad person.

After a while you can usually smell a rat a mile off.

Cheers,
Jason.
p.s. I went to a retailer and bought the lens new.

[UniPol]

I am very surprised this thread hasn't been closed earlier moderators. IceTrade Classifieds, in my opinion and as the name implies, should be for just such a purpose.

It may be appropriate to take a look at the IceTrade "Terms of Service"/ "Terms & Etiquette" and generally how people address each other in forums generally. Perhaps an "IceTrade Alert" may be needed which may indicate any misconduct by a member and any action taken by the moderators (forum suspension etc.). This can be somewhat difficult as one point stated in the IceTrades "Terms of Service" :

Each forum member who purchases an item from another forum member, does so at their own risk and they expressly waive any entitlement to bring any claim against an administrator or moderator with respect to any such transaction.

Australia Astronomy Buy & Sell "Terms of Use" states :

AABS is just a venue for sellers to list items (or to solicit an offer to buy items) and for buyers/sellers to browse the adverts. AABS does not get involved in the actual transaction between the buyer and seller.
AABS and its owners and operators have no knowledge of the quality, legitimacy, and accuracy of the listings. You deal directly with the buyer or seller at your own risk.

Because AABS and its owners and operators are not involved in the actual transaction between buyer and seller, in the event of a dispute during a transaction you agree to release AABS and its owners and operators from claims, demands, and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes.

For another thing, I can't see how strong and innapropriate language is going to help matters. Here are some examples just from this thread :

"holy crap"..........."this particular piece of garbage wrapped in skin wouldn't still be pulling this caper."..........."You'll get yours, you oxygen thief."........."sounds like a few of the members on here local to this guy need to go and sort it/him out once and for all "........"get a real job instead of ripping people who work for there money you grub..."........."Sad I know, but even sadder when you get ripped off by this sort of scum".........."they may still be a theif. Our guy, like others, is just a plain stupid, bad person." ....."After a while you can usually smell a rat a mile off."


The above examples remind me of the old movies, particularly westerns with their vigilante mobs, the posse and variations of. Amusing or serious stuff, I'll let you be the judge. Of course, we have to bear in mind that much of the information which has been stated in this thread is second hand and anectdotal therefore a degree of moderation by both moderators and members should be the order of the day.

[bahoogas]

I'm in. But given my physique I don't think we stand a chance...

Maybe we could convince iceman to come (karate blackbelt), and stand back while he does the job??? :confused2: We could be his cheer squad.

Strongmanmike looks pretty capable too.

edit: Steve, after reading your post I should make it clear that this is a joke, just in case it wasn't obvious

[casstony]

While I agree with your sentiment Steve (not lowering ourselves to the offenders level) I can understand that people might get a bit grumpy with a repeat offender, especially those who have been victims of scams in the past.

[kitsuna]

I have no problem with this thread remaining open and active for a little while longer. It'll give other, genuine IIS users the chance to see it and be reminded that caution is a virtue.

[GeoffW1]

The idea is attractive :question:, but probably inadvisable :(, certainly not in the name of IIS anyway.

Cheers

[lolthrash]

Whilst it was (mostly) a joke, it's still a nice idea :lol:

[Visionoz]

Shame that this kind of person (if you can him that!) has probably caused a lot of grief to many others and "spoilt the soup" so-to-speak for other genuine members of IIS

My 2cents!

Cheers
Bill

[lolthrash]

I just hope most members realise that this isn't a common occurence and that an EXTREMELY small number of people do these kind of things.
I have had plenty of successful dealings on a number of forums, almost always interstate without knowing the person (gathering information beforehand though of course) and have never had a problem. Most people are completely genuine!

[Snorbak]

If this "person" is repeating the same offence & forum moderators can verify it, why not name him/her. I don't see a problem with making his true name known to provide advance warning to others.
Unfortunately too many people are far too polite.

[Octane]

Matt,

Read through this thread, as well as the one in the website feedback thread; he has been named and shamed.

H

[AstralTraveller]

I'm no solicitor but my understanding is that if you 'liable' a person and they take it to court the fact that you are correct may not be a good enough defence. I believe that in regard to this the law is a small robust pack animal closely related to the horse.

EDIT, I just saw Humayun's post. Sorry for not looking a bit further before posting. I'll still stand by my last comment.

[GeoffW1]

LOL, well StattonB has got us in a right old tiz, if nothing else :rofl:

Cheers

[el_draco]

Absolutely true. I've had many successful dealings with astronomers, but I have also come close to being ripped off a couple of times. So far I've managed to smell the rat in time and busted the rip-off merchant, but its so easy to do some serious money.

The best thing to do is verify exactly who you are dealing with, independently!, if its an amount of money you are not prepared to lose, and ask lots of questions. Rip-off artists will often stumble when it comes to detailed questioning.

Total sympathy for those who have been bitten... Hope this mongrel fries... along with those in the legal "business" who use the "justice" system to protect them :mad2:

[mozzie]

i see the low life hasn't defended him self yet!!!! "ahh his been caught out" he's running for cover.. planning the next way to rip someone off.....

[iceman]

He's banned, Peter. We don't want him signing back up to defend himself.

[mozzie]

great stuff mike !!!!!1

[xaromerox]

There is good and bad everywhere. So every now and then we have to do a clean out, As statistics go IIS is doing well. So well done for sticking together.

"Be the Change you want to See" Mahatma Gandhi

[kitsuna]

Personally I've always preferred;

"He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue!"

- Sean Connery as Jim Malone - The Untouchables (1987).

[Shiraz]

Just had a look at the listed website and found one of my images posted there - lifted from IIS. Also recognised some from other IIS members.

EDIT: the post that this refers to seems to have been removed - sorry to waste your time

[allan gould]

Interesting you state this as a review for the HEQ5 Pro mount that I wrote for IIS was lifted from this site and posted under his authorship but the dummy left the trail of IIS AND authorship at the top of the post. It has now been removed from the site so he must still be monitoring IIS. Also he has lifted a lot of reviews from cloudy nights and attributed the authorship to himself. Smuck!