US / Aust price variations.

[vanwonky]

Hi All - First post in this forum so my apologies if repeating a possibly overdone topic. I have done a search and have found some older posts on the subject about the price variations that I have come across looking for my first telescope. Is it still not possible to buy Celestron (or any other scope) from the USA? I am fully aware of the pitfalls of buying overseas but when you are looking at well over 50% less it is hard to resist even with no warranty backup.

Celestron AU (Celestron Nexstar 5 SE) (http://www.ozscopes.com.au/cassegrain-telescope-celestron-nexstar-5-se.html)
Celestron USA (Celestron Nexstar 5 SE) (http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/catadioptric-telescopes/celestronnexstar5se.cfm)

PS: I have only just begun the research so I am confused as any noobie and may be overdoing it even looking at this scope so early and am willing to be told so! And I seem to have picked up that Celestron themselves may be the problem as far as the variations go. Is that true?

[midnight]

I have been keen on buying the Celestron NexGuide autoguider as it seems to be a very popular little device in the US at the moment. However, I can confirm with my dealings with US orders that Celestron branded items can not be bought and shipped out of the country. Lucky for me though, my father is in California at the moment and the US store has accepted my credit card order via internet for a pickup in store. But doing it this way incurs the state tax (California 7.5% sales tax).

And also welcome!!:welcome:

Cheers,
Darrin...

[vanwonky]

Maybe someone like this lot could be a way around it as well - http://myus2.myus.com/ just to open a can of worms! Thanks for the welcome Darrin.

Cheers
Dave

[bmitchell82]

Yep the topic has flogged 6 horses 3 cows a Lama and a hand full of endangered green tree frogs to death... A few locked topics and what not as well.

At the end of the day where there is a will there is a way. Price dictates our decision 9 times out of 10 and for those who purchase over seas you know the risk. So ide leave the topic to lay still, as there are a lot of other avenues to look at that all have better options to offer!

my 2c worth.:thanx:

[vanwonky]

Thanks Brendan. I promise I won't push it any further if you wouldn't mind extending a bit on what you mean by the above.

[joecool]

If you do get a scope from Australia, you might want to look at https://www.bintelshop.com.au/ or http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

For $100 less than ozscopes Bintel have a Meade LT 8" ACF Telescope https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8984
That is over twice the light gathering ability of a 5" and still not a huge scope to lift onto it's tripod. These style of scopes are not really suitable for photography if that's what you would like to do later. Then you need to look at Meade's LX200 range for a whole lot more money or a newtonian on an equatorial motorized mount. Some like the view or the light weight of a refractor and choose those... You need to look through each to compare for yourself.

Have a read through http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=74670
Very interesting option of 8" or 10" dob. With a goto mount they are similar in light gathering ability to the cheaper range Meade or Celestron fork mount units but are cheaper than Meade or Celestrons of similar aperture. You then need to decide on which you will use most often and which is portable and manageable for you.

Mark.

ps Shame about Meade and Celestron. They are doing themselves out of sales with their pricing in Australia. I bought my LX200 10" directly from Meade, but that was about 15 years ago...
I still buy all my non Meade and Celestron accessories from overseas. As you know. Take a price and double it in Australia.

[bmitchell82]

well if your just starting out, why is it that you where looking to go the celestron scope? are you looking at it because it has the capabilities of GoTo?

There are many questions to ask yourself, and they all revolve around what is it that you want to do with the telescope and what expectations you have. A lot of people that are just starting out think that they are going to see views like this (http://brendanmitchell.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/NGC-6729-120_25_25_30.jpg)

when in actual fact you might detect that there are stars missing and you would see the big bright stars. that is about it.

the other thing is do you think you are going to put a camera to the scope? if you are, think about the type of telescope that you are using. there is alot of different information that you need to look at and there isn't a 1 catch wonder for everything. Ask yourself the questions and you will get a good answer very quickly to what it is that you should do.

Just out of interest though, remember that manufactures clump together. EG Synta who makes Skywatcher, make Celestron, Saxon, Williams Optics etc etc. Not saying that they are all of the same build quality because they aren't, but the same manufacturing facilities are building these scopes!

[vanwonky]

Yes more questions than answers at the moment Brendan as you would know when you look at any new pursuit properly. I have considered the photography bit but will leave that for the future if at all although your pic is very inspiring indeed. The goto was definitely a drawcard for me. Not that i don't want to learn myself but rather that I don't want to lose interest through frustration - a possibility others have mentioned.

Mark thanks for your input as well. Will check those out.

[Kal]

I can save you $500 instantly on an Australian purchase with free shipping if you like:

Celestron Nexstar 5SE AU (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm)

But yeah, we live in a world with no free trade.

Lots of options though, be that other brands or using 'middle man' purchasing/shipping services.

[DaveR]

Dave, I will leave it to the more learned to help re types of scopes, but I wanted to point out Star Optics has a good deal on Celestron C8 at the moment http://www.staroptics.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=607.
Cheers
Dave

[bmitchell82]

Well the age old reccomendation! go a dob, bigger optics less price. Purchase some key pieces.

Decent quality laser collimator Orion dulux laser collimator (don't stint on something like this because it affects the quality of the view)

Telerad which is a zero magnification finder.

I always was able to find objects to view and viewing anything bar bright objects in light pollution is useless so when you get out of the city lights finiding those special objects is easy.

If you go goto, you will loose objects because you don't have enough punch/light capture.

Thats what i think. and at 500 you can get a 10" dob exactly like mine!? why would you stuff around.:thumbsup:

[EddieDog]

As said by others, a recurring topic. I bought a Celestron 6SE from B&H in New york back in Dec whilst on hols. Cost me less than a thousand all up which included shipping, it took its time to arrive but all good. Cost of scope itself was $US799, which simply cannot be matched here. PS, go for the 6, not the 5.

Eddie

[Snorbak]

Dave,

Welcome, like you I am new.

However, I agree with Brendan, for visual use go a 8" or 10" dob.
I bought a Skywatcher 10" truss dob as my 1st scope & the views through it are much, much better than I expected for a relatively simple & inexpensive scope. In my opinion, bang for buck, there is no better choice. Simple to use, set-up & transport.
Spend the money saved on quality EP's, collimator & better finders etc.

Regards,

Matt

[vanwonky]

Again thanks for all replies so far - very helpful. Of course I am straying well off topic but whilst we are here:-

Matt, after a few more days poking around I see it is all bigger than Ben Hur with more options than you can poke a stick at between telescopes / accessories and conditions you will be viewing in let alone expectations I might have of my first look through the lens. I was drawn to the Celestron because I imagined it was more portable. Most of the use will be from the backyard but some time will be spent down south on a farm which is far from the light pollution of Perth. However the setup Brendan and yourself suggest is quickly becoming the frontrunner on my list with more research. The size of it being the only issue. What do you think about portability?

Dave

[Snorbak]

Trying not to hijack the thread, but in regard to portability, the truss dobs compress thanks to the truss arrangement & breakdown into OTA & mount allowing you to easilly to transport in the rear seat of a small sedan.
I would suggest you attend a viewing night with a local astronomy club & visit a retailer to see the size as they are much larger than the scope you enquired about. Still, with size comes much improved views of DSO's.
I researched quite a bit prior to my purchase & was thinking along the same lines as you. Ultimately I took the advice of others & settled upon the low tech truss dob (non-GOTO), & then spent the money saved on quality EP's, a new finderscope, lazer collimator & now a new high quality automatic focuser. I intend to upgrade to the GOTO mount however, I must add that I am absolutly "stoked" with the end result & will never part with it.

Regards,

Matt

[bmitchell82]

well to give you a idea the 10 solid tube dob is about 1m in length and is not that heavy. If you leave the dob base complete it gets a little big but you can break it down. At the end of the day the dob is the easiest and most portable with massive bang for your dollars!

[vanwonky]

OK. Off tomorrow to check some out.

[kitsuna]

speaking as somebody who bought their first scope less than 6 months ago, I feel I can add some value to your decision making process there.

I (more or less) followed conventional wisdom and bought a nice dobsonian telescope. I failed to follow conventional wisdom in that I bought a 10 inch rather than an 8 inch. As a result, I've found that while it gives wonderful views, it is quite heavy, making it difficult to move around the backyard, and does take a bit of time to set up (because I'm anal about proper collimation). It is also somewhat of a waste, as all it's light gathering power is overwhelmed by the light pollution of the area I'm in.

As a result, the Dalek is going to be saved for the times when I can head down to my astro group's dark sky site once or twice a month, and I'm getting myself a small(ish) refractor on an alt-az mount for grab and go suburban viewing of the planets, moon and brighter objects. This refractor may later be used for the first stages of astrophotography.

In a roundabout sort of way, I'm trying to point out that if you get involved in this hobby for a reasonable length of time, chances are you'll end up with more than one scope.

To ensure that you STAY in the hobby for a reasonable length of time, have a real long think about whether you really want anything bigger than 8 inches for your first scope. It makes a helluvah difference.

It also needs to be said that my dad still calls me "Mr Puny-verse" so your mileage may vary. :thumbsup:

[bmitchell82]

Just to clarify something Adam, if you believe that reducing your aperture will give you better views in light pollution I think you will end up being very disappointed. Being anal with my collimation (mind you I mainly dabble in astrophotography) takes me about 2 minutes to be within 5 microns of perfect collimation. Its about the equipment you use that makes the job hard or easy. Plus the extra resolution that the 10" provides allows higher magnifications of planets and the like allowing a far better view of details contained. With the central obstruction of a standard skywatcher dobsonian being about 16% or so they are very contrasty and provide really good views when the seeing is good!

As for the difference in size of a 8 to a 10 " they are exactly the same length, the 10" has a little bit more weight but not by much possibly 2-3kgs? If that's enough to break your back then the easy way to get around it is get a removals trolly.

I guess all I am trying to say is that aperture is king when it comes to viewing, Light pollution affects every telescope the same. Less aperture less light is just an illusion that the telescope magically doesn't pick the light pollution up, it also doesn't pick the objects up either! If you want my advice, go and purchase a visual light pollution filter it will start blocking some of the Sodium and Magnesium light bands where those brilliant Orange and White lights pump out mass's of light at!

[kitsuna]

I agree that aperture is king. I also agree that even under light polluted skies, more aperture will see more, despite the pollution. I know that my new scope will show me less than my old scope. I am sacrificing DSOs for ease and convenience. I'll repeat the mantra of our people;

the best scope is the one you use the most.

However, that 10 incher is a cumbersome beast. According to the skywatcher website, it weighs about 5 to 6kg more than the 8 incher (base and tube combined, it weighs in the order of 27.5kg, and it's bulky size makes this mass awkward to move around. This is not small potatoes). Unfortunately where I live means I have to keep it collapsed and separated when not in use. Thus, I have to put quite a lot of time and effort into getting it out and actually using it. Something that palls when the sky is looking iffy.

Worse still, I'm soon to be moving to a unit block which you could be forgiven for believing was located on the Las Vegas strip, so highly illuminated it is. There is a place down the road that is nice and dark and not surrounded by anti-astronomer ninja attack trees/buildings, but I really don't want to have to pack the dob in a car just to drive it 400 metres, unpack it, and then do it all again when I go home. Thus, the Megrez on an alt-az mount. Something I can slap together, not have to collimate and not give me a hernia :rofl:

Make no mistake, I still think that a dob, and an 8 incher is probably the best bet for a first time buyer. I will tell anybody who will listen, (and many who won't :P) this fact. I'm just urging caution for going larger than that without having actually lived with a big-ish scope before. :shrug:

I can't imagine what it'd be like living with a 20 inch ladder job! :lol:

[bmitchell82]

I guess i never found my 10" solid tube to be heavy nor cumbersome, I too lived about 10 min drive from Perth CBD :) I understand though that if you find it a wee bit to big then hey :) you find it to big.

I use my 10" all the time but mount it on the mount and attach so many cables and what not it isn't funny :) anybody who reads this and does dabble in astrophotography will understand what im talking about :) so my setup time is about a hour- hour and a half to start taking images! so 5 min setup for a dob is heaven! hehehe

[vanwonky]

Last off topic post - yeah right! I went to BTOW (seemingly Perth's only shop for telescopes) to have a look at the massive (for some) 10" GOTO Collapsible DOB. Not so bad methinks. Currently priced at $1299 (http://btow.com.au/Skywatcher_Goto_10_inch_250mm_Dobso nian_Beautiful_Good_Quality_telesco pes_great_quality_products_from_Aus tralia) but not available till July. Yes the 8" looks much more portable but I think the 10" is the go.

Good news is I remembered my brother had my grandads old binoculars (7 x 50 as it turns out) so I will take that path whilst I cool my heels a bit and look around.

Thanks again for all the replies - great forum!

Cheers
Dave

[RichardK]

I have just purchased my second 8" dob to replace one that fell into disrepair. I would vote for the dob, easy to use, relatively inexpensive and fun.

Richard

[Sylvain]

An 8" dob is a great great scope to get started. The possibilities are just awesome and it stays small enough to be portable. One can't really go wrong with such a dob, especially if on a budget. I however feel it is important to stress that aperture fever is easy to get, but when it comes down to it, a larger and more heavy scope requires more motivation to set up than a smaller one, especially if the smaller one can be stored assembled. It ultimately boils down to personal preferences however, but I'd say that a 8" is a safe way of getting started.

[kitsuna]

this is exactly why I'm getting my little megrez. I like my dob (aperture rules the roost), but sometimes I want something more convenient. having both means I have the luxury of choice. :thumbsup:

[vanwonky]

Hey Adam - If you don't mind how about a bit more info on the megrez. Maybe just a link to have a look at so us newbies can see what you mean.
Cheers
Dave

[kitsuna]

no problem.

http://www.williamoptics.com/telescopes/megrez90_features.php

illustrates the product in question.

The following specifications are noted;

aperture; 90mm

focal ratio f/6.2

focal length; 558mm.

objective type; Doublet fl-53 Air Spaced Fully Multicoated; STM coated.

The above line for the un-initiated means it has 2 lenses bending the light down the tube (doublet).

fl-53 is basically a special type of optical glass, generally considered to be very high grade (when manufactured well).

'air spaced' means that there is a gap between the lenses.

Fully multicoated means that each surface of the lens is coated with a special anti-reflective coating to ensure the maximum amount of light possible makes it down the tube. STM i believe is marketing slang for the particular type of chemical coating used. Don't ask me what they actually use.

There are a couple of very similar (cosmetically) megrez for sale in the ISS classifieds;

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75986

and

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75477

I am going to mount it on this mount/tripod combo;

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=91015

New, in the current model this scope goes for approximately $1200 (varies from dealer to dealer, but not by as much as you'd think). The mount retails for about $650 if you can find a dealer with one in stock, because apparently William optics doesn't make it anymore. (they can be had second hand though).

:thumbsup:

The point is; including various accessories (including quality eyepieces to cope with the short focal length, and a diagonal so I don't break my neck), this setup will cost me in excess of $2000. All for a scope with 90mm aperture, and a very basic (but very nice and smooth) mount.

in comparison, I know that a basic 8 inch dob (about 204mm) can be bought for $550. Or for $999 for an 8 inch dob with a full go-to mount.
At a quarter of the price, the dob will provide 5.1x more light gathering ability than my Megrez.
At half the price, it'll provide 5.1x more light gathering ability and a mount capable of doing the hard work of actually finding the objects for you.

this is why everybody tells you to go for the dob. And rightly so. You get a lot more light for your money.

So it would seem as if getting the Megrez is madness... BUT;

the megrez is significantly lighter and less bulky than the dob. Fully set up with mount and tripod, it should weigh approximately 12 to 13 kilos. This less less than the TUBE ALONE of my dob. This means setup is quick, and maneuvering it is easy, meaning you've got more time/energy to actually LOOK at things.

It is less susceptible to thermal issues (it cools down quicker than a big mirror)

It shouldn't need collimating (or at least, very very infrequently if it is designed properly), which is something you'll need to do as a newtonian owner as part of most viewing sessions (not a big deal with practice, but I'd rather not do it unless I have to).

As I said earlier; I'm trading light gathering power for convenience.

[jenchris]

I thought Paul Keating said we now had a level playing field....
Good old Labour

[kitsuna]

How do you know if a politician is lying?

His lips are moving.

:P

[vanwonky]

OK that is one lovely looking thing! I totally understand the "best scope is the one you will use" statement and I recognise "aperture fever"! It's quite a tug of war! Thanks for that Adam.

[kitsuna]

yep. I fully expect to spend just as much time just admiring the thing from various angles on and off the mount as actually using it.

Unofficially, William Optics specially machine their scopes to be dew, and drool resistant. :D