Beginner telescope question

[Nugeorge]

Hi guys,

I've got myself some binoculars and started learning about exactly where each star and planets reside in the night sky with help from other astronomy sources (books, software, etc) and I'm starting to research into getting my own telescope. I'm in no real rush to do this, however I don't want to buy a mediocre telescope, I'd rather invest in something decent to have for a very long time.

What my question is, what minimum spec telescope would I need to be able to get decent visibility of say, another planet, or nebulae, or even a galaxy. Some of the pictures I see here from other amateurs are amazing, and I just wanted to know if these kind of pics were taken with affordable priced telescopes.

What I'm trying to avoid I guess is spending a bit of money on one and only being able to see the spec of a planet or star only a tiny bit bigger and being pretty disappointed.

I know this is a very amateurish question, but thanks in advance.

Oh, and I know a lot of you will say join a club or find someone who has one that can show me around, but let's put that answer aside for the time being. :lol:

[mikerr]

Hi George and :welcome:
This article including part two will enable you to get a feel for the different types of Telescopes.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,260,0,0,1,0


Michael

[Brian W]

Ok first lets look at astrophotography. There are two types (1) very very expensive (2) not so expensive. For the most part the amateurs that create the pictures that make us all go 'oh wow if only I could do that' are doing type 1. Now for all I know you may have an unlimited budget that doesn't even blink at $10,000.00 but if you don't you might want to postpone astrophotography for a while.

A good reflector on a dob mount with reasonable eye pieces will run you anywhere from $400.00 up to $2,000.00 depending on size and accessories.

A minimum sized reflector would be 4.5". If you download 'Astrobyte' software (it is a digital log book) you will find in the Messier logging form photos that are close to what you will see in a decent scope in the 4.5 to 8" range.

Personally I found that after about a year of 3 to 4 nights a week observing I had learned enough and developed my skills to the point where I was running into the physical limits of my 4.5" reflector and moved up to an 8". Two years later I am no where near reaching the limits of the 8".

Hope this helps.
Brian

[ZeroID]

Hi George, :welcome: to IIS.
I'll back up Brian's comments. I started with (and still use) a 4.5" Newt but have built a 10" Dob and have just started down the expensive slippery slope into Astrophotography.
Remember that whatever you start with now can always be sold on to another newbie later and there are plenty of bargains to be found in the 'For Sale' section on this site. Plus plenty of good advice and information.

I'd advise looking for a cheap 8" dob, easy to use and quite a useful scope for all your intended targets. Get Stellarium on a computer and start looking and learning. The binoculars are a dang good start as well, I use mine regularly just for scanning around and getting to know the place.

Good luck and enjoy the ride. :D :thumbsup:

[niko]

Observing is sooo different to astrophotography. Don't confuse the photos you see on here (or anywhere) with what you will see through the eyepiece. Even my most basic of photos is at least a 5minute exposure (in the case of deep space objects) and your eye just can't take in that much light to give those sort of views through an eyepiece.

Having said that something like a 8" dob will give you years of happy viewing.

In my case my photo setup was purchased in bit and pieces, all secondhand, off this site.

Ed80 and HEQ5 mount cost about $1500, a Canon camera $400, bit and pieces amybe another few hundred.

I started with observing though and you would always find a ready buyer for any good gear you bought and decided to upgrade.

hope that helps

niko

[ArcaneMagik]

8" Dob. That is all.

It's a perfect starting tool. Big enough to impress friends and reward your eyes, small enough that it's not impossible to move it around.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi George,

Welcome to IIS.

Take a gander at post number 3 in this thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=66164&page=2) for what I described can be done with a reasonable telescope. There are 3 pics there of nebulae and a globular cluster that I took with my scope and a $550 Canon 1000D.

My scope combo is currently $1399 for the 8" tube and the HEQ5 pro and while I havent had much time outside since I bought it, the pics I took were on my second night. (although there has been much research and help from IIS along the way.)

I agree that to get you started, your best bet is an 8" dobsonian reflector which looks like a cannon. Extremely easy to use and great fun for all the family. Check out the Ice In Space Classifieds here for some on sale now, some of them are going for $350-$500 for an 8"!!!!!

As a beginner astrophotography package, my 8" on HEQ5 pro for $1400 (plus camera $550, adaptors etc of around $300) means one of the first steps to Astrophotographs will set you back around $2200......not for the faint hearted....however, there is a lot of potential for this equipment.

Best idea is to try and get a cheaper second hand dob if you can, then when you feel like (and can afford) the step up to a equatorial mount and refractor or reflector, you can either sell the dob or convert it's tube to ride on the HEQ5 mount....

If you do jump in and have problems, a LOT of people here have experience with the HEQ5 pro so you wont be left scratching your head and getting frustrated, hopefully. Just watch out for how slippery the slope becomes, you will always be buying "just one more thing" to progress....like autoguider, guidescope, filters, better AP camera, laptop, dew heater, coma corrector, etc etc etc etc etc.

So, by all means, go nuts with the questions, the longer you ponder, the better the solution and hopefully the less money you will waste if you decide its not your cup of tea after all...

I have attached my photos from that thread here, to show you (while not perfect) what can be expected from a rig like mine with minimal exposures (all shots less than 10 x 30 sec).....there is also a shot of the scope in case you were wondering what it looks like....

My scope has a focal length of 1000mm and with my 3x barlow (magnifier) and a 10mm eyepiece (300x magnification) I can see the bands of Jupiter in colour, details in the rings of Saturn, Mars, Uranus, Neptune, Venus and LOTS of craters and details on the moon. With my webcam, I can even watch the planets on my PC and record them to video. You will see lots of Youtube videos of planets through a telescope and that will give you sort of an idea of what I mean.

Certainly, this scope is a good starting point for all round enjoyment, however, to minimise the risk, (and the $$$) a dobsonian 8" can't really be beaten for ease of use and bang for your buck.....

I just remembered, check out my post on my recommended beginner's packages in the beginner's equipment discussions, here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=712542), these include pretty much all you need to get going and a kick arse collapsible dobsonian with or without goto control as well....

I hope this helps

Cheers

Chris

[jjjnettie]

You can still do basic imaging through a Dob though.

Here's my show and tell. :)

Taken through my 10" Dob using a clunky old video camera to capture the .avi's, before processing them with Registax.

[Paddy]

I think this is a very important point. Remember that you will see deep sky objects in shades of grey as your eyes will use night vision for them with een a large telescope and night vision does not encode colour. You will see colour in stars, planets and some planetary nebula and that's about it. Nonetheless, you will see heaps of detail on planets and DSOs with an 8" dob. Also realise that planets will not look huge, but you will see plenty of detail on Jupiter, some on Mars, you will get good views of Saturn's rings etc. but they won't fill your eyepiece as you will be limited to 300x mag whatever scope you get due to seeing limitations. Galaxies will certainly be viewable, but be aware they are mostly small and faint with a few dazzling exceptions.

[Nugeorge]

Many thanks for all the posts guys, this gives me some much needed perspective on the matter - great beginner posts also Chris.

I'm actually pretty surprised on the low cost of these 8" dobs - this might seem like the way to go to get things started as the investment is fairly low.

An uncle of mine is also lending me his telescope so that I can get a bit of a feel for it, I'm going to be picking it up this weekend however I have no idea what model it is, he said he paid about $1200 for it about 8 years ago, hopefully it's something decent.

Another question: do telescopes come with the built in camera for photography, or do you have to install your own camera for this?

[Screwdriverone]

Hi George,

No, the only type that has a built in camera is the Meade Lightswitch series and they only really take basic planetary shots compared to either a webcam (cheapest) ($100-$500) , DSLR ($500-$3000), or dedicated AP Camera ($1000-$15000)

The Lightswitch camera is used for self alignment mainly, but can be used to take photos as well, reviews I have read state it's for "basic" photography really....

That said, check out the posts by Rolf (Skyviking) who takes some astonishing photos with a long exposure Philips Toucam.....which is basically a 640x480 webcam!

Cheers

Chris

[Markaus]

Hi George, thanks for asking the questions as I'm newish to the telescope world and the answers are just great.

So if anyone has a dob for sale I'd be really interested as I need to move on from my celestron 50 power seeker. I also guessing that if I could get a 10in or larger then it's fine also.

Cheers all

Mark

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Mark,

Check out the Ice Trade Forum here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9) for scopes for sale.

Cheers

Chris

[Markaus]

Thanks, chris, busy searching through it,

George i didn't mean to hijack your thread....sorry

[Nugeorge]

No problem mate, glad my question helped you out as well.

Now I just need to find a decent spot to view as I only live about 10 minutes from Sydney City. :(

[Iceaxe]

Hi George,

I have mentioned clubs / societies before, and all the I can add to the great advise from the others posts is :-
Collapsible or Truss type - easy to transport ect.
Solid Tube - can be mounted on an equatorial goto type mount.

For me first was a 10" dobsonian (solid) on a dobsonian mount and some good quality eye pieces,
next EQ6 Pro mount or heaver duty equatorial mount so It can take future loads eg- cameras ect,
and when I'm ready for Astrophotography.

Hopefully I was able to help you.

Regards

Joe

[overlord]

Overlord recommends the following for any beginner!

http://www.skywatcher.com/swtinc/product.php?id=50&class1=1&class2=106

But I just read in Patrick Moore's book that he recommends at least an 8" to make out detail on Mars. I'm not sure, I use an 8, but this one right here may have sharper views due to the longer length. It's also cheaper, like 320 bucks at bintel. And it's good for life!

[Brian W]

Hi, I don't know about minimum size for detail on Mars but last year when Earth and Mars were close I was able to consistently catch the polar ice and some shading on the surface with our f/6 8" LightBridge at 200x.
Brian
PS that was from a dark site.
B