The Orion Optics AG12 has landed

[strongmanmike]

Well, after nearly 4 years of recovering from the ASA horror, I am a littlem perplexed that I once again find myself very excited about essentially the same scope, al be it from a new manufacturer :)

The first impressions are..like..WOW! As I opened each box and laid eyes on her I was continually muttering wow, that's excellent or cooool etc. The workmaship is first rate, and if thing flexes I'll..?..I don't know :question:.. I can't see any thing else that could possibly have been included in the design to remove any more flexure (time will tell though :scared2:). The rigid but removable dew shield is an excellent well designed addition and I am glad I went with it and the tube is very black internally.

The heater and fan cable routing are well thought out and implimented and the integrated tube heater very neatly designed.

The Atlas looks superb and all the adapters made by Orion came neatly wrapped and clearly labled and all fit together neatly.

Here are some photos :D

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/orion_ag12_arrives

Mike

[multiweb]

Very nice scope! One happy camper hey?

[SkyViking]

That just looks rock solid and awesome Mike, congratulations!

[DavidTrap]

Congrats.

When is the wetting of the baby's head?

DT

[wasyoungonce]

There was a lot of noise about Orion optics Europe in CN recently, especially about packing and finish, not about their optics though.

But that looks well packed and finished. That focuser brace looks like it means business not to mention the rest looks a million dollars.:thumbsup:

[mswhin63]

Nice kit, gratz

[Benny L]

That is sensational Mike! :D Jeez that corrector is HUGE how far does that poke into the tube once it is in the focuser?

Really looking forward to first light, which i will assume will be at least 5-6 months away due to the new gear monsoon coming in, it will be raining :P

[allan gould]

Who's a happy boy then?
Enjoy it to the max.

[Octane]

Congrats, Mike. That's some serious piece of kit.

Looking forward to your first diffraction spikes. :D

H

[marc4darkskies]

Finally!!! Congrats mate - looks very nice! Great pics too! But ... I'm confused :confused2: ... is it a boy or a girl? :shrug:

Looking forward to seeing it full assembled and sitting atop that puny little Tak mount of yours! ;) I've attached an artists impression of what that might look like! :P

Cheers, Marcus

[renormalised]

Nice piece of kit!!!:):)

This will definitely start a rash of big scope buying, I foresee:):)

[strongmanmike]

:lol: Love you guys (especially you Marcus :thumbsup:) it's great to have people to share these exciting moments with, if looks are anything to go by it should perform...lets hope it doesn't go pear shapped :prey:

Yes the corrector is indeed huge but I haven't set everything up yet, I am told the corrector will protrude into the tube a small amount but will not obstruct the light path, still to check this out.

With the big Proline and CFW-5-7 attached it is gunna be a heavy piece of kit and I am thinking close to the limit of the NJP :question:...Marcus :shrug: :D.

Looking at the degree of focuser bracing both inside and out I am thinking that the extra external tube rings that grip the focuser base may even prove unnecessay..? That would save a little weight too but I'll make sure it works with them in place first before testing with them removed.

It's all a little intimidating to be honest :scared2:, so I will take my time setting her up - god I wish I had an observatory now!!!! :rolleyes:

Mike

[Bassnut]

hehe, that pic is funny, well done.

It all looks bleeding awesome Mike and cutting edge. f3.8 at that size will be very interesting indeed. The clamps for the camera look very solid and well made too.

[h0ughy]

you can drop it over tonight Mike and leave it on the mount at my place ;)

[wavelandscott]

Looks great...I am sure you will put it to good use. Congratulations!

[telecasterguru]

Mike,

It looks fantastic.

[g__day]

Congratulations the optics and all the fittings look first rate - but is the NJP going to be the long term platform for this beast?

[batema]

They look lovely in the photos and I bet a thousand times more in real life. Have fun with your new toy.

[tlgerdes]

That's one hell of a spider on the front of that thing. You should see if you can get 4 more and use them as mag wheels for a cart for it.:lol:

You will get great diffraction spikes that's for sure.:) You wont get any flexure on your secondary.

[DavidU]

Congratulations Mike !!!! An awesome scope.
Now........stick the camera in it......we want IMAGES !!!
:thumbsup:x10

[TrevorW]

you may want to check this link out Mike http://www.progressiveastroimaging.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3980

[gregbradley]

Wow Mike, that is a beauty! Well worth the wait.

I like the 4 sets of rings and that is a smart idea to bolt them to the
focuser to add rigidity.

The tube seems nice and thick. Is the scope visibily a lot different in design to the ASA?

I think you'll be fine on the NJP although you will be a bit beyond its design limit. Just make sure its well balanced. You may need an underscope end counterweight if you put a guide scope on top as that will make the scope's balance point shift with the angle which can complicate things. Although I suppose if the guide scope is kept dead centre of the scope axis it shouldn't do that.

A MMOAG would be my guiding choice for that baby rather than a guide scope but then again it adds weight and takes up about an inch of backfocus. But it does get rid of flexure not that you have a problem with the AP and this is the same or close to the same focal length. Plus talking with Don Goldman about adapters is tiring. He must have 10 million of them.

I can see some awesome images coming up.

Looking forward to your first light. Take your time and get a superb first image out of it. Lots of flats and trial and error on best way to handle it.
I found the CDK easy to use but it had its own learning curve and it took me a while to optimise images out of it (flats were always the problem).

Greg.

[bokglob]

Your Mrs will probably curse me for saying this, but that would look really nice on a Paramount:D Congrats.

[alan meehan]

Congrats Mike what a beast and the clouds have cleared ,well done
AL

[strongmanmike]

Hello Fred, nice to hear from you :thumbsup:

Yes, tis not only me that maketh funny photos of fellow IIS'ers :lol:

So far the scope looks to have better solutions than the ASA in a number of areas but only time will tell....



Suuure...not :mad2:

...I've waited 4 years to once and for all put the argument to bed, this scope, at least on paper, is the perfect all round high end scope, now time to put it to the test sink or swim it is :help:



Cheers Scott



Well can't argue that one Frank... it is pure sex in a tube :eyepop:...now if it will just perform as well as it looks good, I will be mighty satisfied :prey:



Lets see Matt, may need to save a few more pennys and browny points I recon to go to an AP1200 :eyepop: :rolleyes:



I had seen pictures of them but nothing prepares you for the real thing, it doesn't seem real, especially after the ASA saga..I am still somehow waiting to be disapointed :sadeyes:...crossed fingers...



:lol: yeh I have a few pairs of them, lots of weet-bix shirts too but not in these photos :P

Bah, with this excitment level coupled with the last remnants of my past heave ho days lingering...she'be right :D...but I know what you mean Stevo :question:



Yeh diffraction spikes will be something I am not used to...although, I used to put sticks across my 12" LX200GPS and ED80 to induce them :P so maybe I have a secret diffraction ;)



YOu an me both but....little steps, little steps... :thumbsup:



Way ahead of you Trevor ;)...I didn't go into this lightly. Peter Shah has been my confidant and mentor along the tentative "what tha fu## am I doing again" path back to astrograph nervana...so he comes down too if I do :lol:



Cheers Greg

I am quietly confident that the NJP will be ok, you can see the ASA N12 in the image below (she looked pretty good too huh?) in the same configuration the AG12 will be, similar camera too although the AG12 will be heavier due to the extra weight in the support rings, focuser area and the main mirror mount too. Although the images were astigmatic during this (the last) ASA N12 imaging session :mad2:, the tracking was the same missile tracking quality the NJP is so famous for :thumbsup:

Don't worry I am certainly planning on taking my time with this to make sure I do everything right. I will be moving my setup from Kurri Kurri back to my mums place in the next suburb here in Newcastle as she has open skies and a lockable garage where I can comfotably shake the scope down :)...once whe is tried and tested I will move back out to darker skies :thumbsup: (well that's teh plan anyway :P)



Tell me about it Darrell, sheesh :rolleyes: :lol:



No problem, glad I could be of assistance :thumbsup:

Mike

[DavidTrap]

Given you're probably one of the few astronomers in Australia (or the world) who could carry one as a portable mount, wouldn't an "el Capitan" be more appropriate? They're accepting direct orders with delivery in 2-4 weeks!

DT

[h0ughy]

ok sorry Mike you must be very touchy feely at the moment:question:

i hope you enjoy testing it :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Yeh could be a bit funstration me thinks :lol: but being at my mums will be a nice change, will be nice to have a kitchen at my disposal in the middle of the night again :P, I haven't had this luxury for some three years now, been thermos and eski :thumbsup:

Mike

[gregbradley]

Yeah I think you're right Mike the NJP should handle it. It will be close to its limit though. You also seem to get excellent tracking. Balance will be the key with this one. I could get reasonable results with the 12.5 inch RCOS and I think with the MMOAG it would've been even better.

My NJP handles the TEC180 quite well and that is a fairly large scope. It handled the Tak BRC250 which is quite a chunky if stubby scope.

Looking forward to some reviews and images.

Have fun!

Greg.

[Paul Haese]

Mikey, nice looking scope. You look your usual excited self. ;)

Not sure about the NJP. A decent gust of wind and there goes that sub or worse that tooth. I imagine that it will be a stop gap until you decide on a particular mount. The numerous bar weights are testimony to how much weight it is swinging. So you have to think about the teeth on the drive.

That said I will no doubt be eating my words, but as a person who has taken risks and come out trumps in Astronomy I await your testing of the scope. Best of luck. :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

I have just added some of the mirror cell installed and the Atlas and corrector in place testing the Atlas - at the bottom of the album here (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/orion_ag12_arrives)

Cheers Greg and Paul.

I am confident the NJP will cope, this was a mount way ahead of its contempories :). I imaged the Witch head nebula (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/104169279/original)in very strong winds and the NJP just sliced straight through the heavy (scary) buffeting.

I hope it is ok :thumbsup:

Mike

[gregbradley]

It looks great. Is the Atlas much beefier than the PDF? I have a PDF (which I am not using on my setups now as it was more for the Tak BRC)
and it is quite beefy. Its also a nice unit and works really well.

Is the corrector held in with the 8 nylon screws? Is this a Keller corrector or one OOUK make or get made for them?

Looks like you are ready to collimate and first light eh?

Greg.

[Doomsayer]

Looks very fit for purpose Mike. The wait is over, but the nervous stuff begins. Fingers crossed the focusing train is flexure free at all angles with that FLI kit (which is a common challenge for any scope of this type, stating the obvious).
Do you have the ability to level the focuser base in some way? I'd assume that f-ratio and big chip will be utterly unforgiving of tilts.
Does the Wynne (attached to CFW) just snugly clamp 'inside' the Atlas? or is is screw fitted in some way? (I may have a use for an Atlas perhaps)

Looking forward to seeing a swathe of ground breaking deep southern sky images.
cheers, guy

(PS it's miserable & snowing here in Canada as I write - glad I'm going back to Oz tomorrow)

[strongmanmike]

The Atlas is apparently in a different league to the PDF and it looks so but only time will tell, can't deffinitively comment yet.

Yes, the corrector is held in by the 6 nylon screws. The fit of the corrector is very snug with almost imperceptible movement before locking it down, as I said the workmanship is first rate as far as I can see so far.

No this is not a Keller corrector it is actually a little larger and has 4 elements but is quite similar. The optic manufacture is outsourced but the units are assembled at Orion and yes the element edges are blakened - it looks pretty good.



Hi Guy, in wintery Canada huh? brrrr

So far the enginereing looks on the money, I can not see a week point in the design of the image train yet but only time will tell, suffice to say the focuser assembly looks nothing like the flimsy JMI kit that was on my ASA :rolleyes:

No (easy) ability to level the focuser base but Orion have assured me they were maticulous in setting up this aspect..again, time will tell...

It really does look the money but I am reluctant (well I can't really) to sing any performance praises until I have thouroughly tested her out...in my mums backyard :thumbsup:...everyone will see, my cohones are on the chopping block you could say :eyepop:

Peter Shah received his AG12 a couple of weeks prior to me and he has already shaken it down and produced this rather short exposure full 11002 frame image (http://twitpic.com/4731k7/full) (look at all the background galaxies!) so I live in hope :)

Mike

[[1ponders]]

OMG!! Now that is what I call a FOV

:eyepop::eyepop::eyepop:

[Doomsayer]

I didn't realise your ASA had a JMI focuser - that would really be pushing it. Testing the 12 locally is very wise. (just been at a Toronto mining conference with 27000 attendees estimated - crazy!)
guy

[gregbradley]

Peter Shah's image is very very good.

How do rotate the scope to frame the image? Does something loosen and you spin it around?

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Simply losen the grub screws and turn the corrector in the adapter (the fit is very snug) - easy :thumbsup:

Mike

[gregbradley]

I see. You would be smart then to install a lanyard on your camera.

My ML8300 slipped out of the eyepiece holder when I was imaging with a
Tak 1.6X extender and a specialised adapter. When temperatures fall something that was tight can loosen unexpectedly.

It is being repaired at the moment.

A lanyard to protect the camera and filter wheel makes a lot of sense.

Greg.

[marc4darkskies]

So, big fella ... what's hapnin? ... last report was days ago! I'm on the edge of my seat!! :)

Cheers, Marcus

[David Fitz-Henr]

That's a very nice looking telecope, Mike!! Looks nice and solid; should be capable of getting some nice images with it. I agree with your idea of taking your time and getting used to it as well. I remember years ago when I bought a C11, I inadvertently undid the SHCS screws that are used to position the OTA in the fork arms (and not meant to be unscrewed). When I replaced them, there was obviously some loctite in the screw threads which was then pushed out by the screws and deposited all over the main mirror :mad2: ... So, take your time and enjoy !!:):)

[strongmanmike]

:lol:..arrgg, don't rush me, this is a delicate operation :sadeyes: I need to cross all my T's and dot all my I's first. I dunni have an observatory or even an open backyard remember :(

The Aurora Flatfield Panel only arrived on Friday. I have attached the camera for a trial setup and due to the length of the image train (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/133046308/original), I have discovered that the standarad short USB & power cable set that connnects the Proline to the Atlas focuser is too short, doh! This was considered a while ago and FLI were sourcing medium length cables to offer,. so they should be ready by now..? I can still operate via normal full length individual cables but the shop so I dropped Greg an email. I can still operate via the long individual connector set but the short set will be much neater.

I also have to update the whole suite of FLI software so I have the latest Atlas control software..all takes time...

I used the Starfire for the last time (probably) on Saturday night :sad:.... so stay tuned for a swan song ;) :thumbsup:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

:lol:...tell Marcus :rolleyes:

he he

Yep better to get it right, there are a few setup and operational differences compared to what I have nailed down into an awesome outfit over the last 5 years in the form of the unflappable Starfire-NJP-FLI outfit :thumbsup:

Mike

[marc4darkskies]

Oh ... that's OK ... as long as you report in every coupla days! :P

I understand what you're doing - I've taken my time with the new mount too. I've upgraded all my software as well and currently hard wiring ethernet cable into the obs - wireless is a pain is the a***e!!!

That sounds awfully final with your Starfire - are you going to sell it?

Cheers, Mrcaus

[strongmanmike]

Off course, will be better when I have more than just photos of me looking stupid with big grins on my face :P



Yeh good move, I hard wired my observatory, although wireless was pretty new then 2004/5.



..you kidding??? be like selling a Stradivarius :eyepop: nah just going to retire it while I decide if this new beast is the holy grail I am hoping it will be..after that the Starfire may well be relegated to visual and then when I can get another mount and camera or a bigger mount (like yours) I will have tandem scopes :thumbsup:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Just did a mockup and test of the entire imaging system on the dinning table :D

I downloaded the latest FLI setup software and everything worked in harmony through the Proline body (to reduce the number of cables) first go...hope this is a sign...

Testing (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/133257295/original)

It is now clear why the focuser base and image train need to be so rigid and beefy :eyepop:

Image Train (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/133257301/original)

Next step will be setting it all up in my mums backyard on the NJP mount :thumbsup:

Mike

[multiweb]

Looks like you'll have to move that dove tail in line with the focuser whether you chose to have the camera facing up or down to have the load inline with the RA shaft or you're going to have balancing issues. Unless you put the equal amount of weight opposite the focuser on the other side of the tube. I'd choose camera facing up as cold air sinks in so you minimise dewing up glass as it won't fall on the coma corrector. Another thing to look for is that your camera assembly clears out any DEC motors on your mount as the tube is pretty short. Just my 2c.

[h0ughy]

well that cardboard box looks a vital piece of equipment - is is waterproof? ;)

[toc]

Its a fantastic looking bit of kit - that laptop looks to be loaded to the hilt, cable wise :)

[gregbradley]

Is it possible to have the camera hanging straight down and still frame the image the way you want? That way there must be far less potential flex compared to sticking out the side if avoidable.

Greg.

[RobF]

Drool! Exciting times by looks of it Mike. My setup is like a cardboard tube and Kodak brownie compared to your gear, but agree with Marc you get some exciting moment forces to balance unless the camera is aligned with mount axis (DEC axis i would have said though :question:)

When I'm parked the QHY9 points straight down. Framing and PA easier to pick too relative to OTA. Just feels better intuitively to have all the weight in line and pointing in towards centre of the rig. Surely the NJP will cope without additional weights on OTA. Be interesting to hear. Hope the weather parts before too long.

[marki]

Ummmm why is there an arrow with OK written next to it on the tube? It it used to show which end points at the stars :P. If that setup flexes with those mounting brackets you may as well give up on the idea. Somehow I think they will do the job.

Mark

[marc4darkskies]

And you said you may not need the bracing rings at the focusser ... waaaaa...hahahaha!!! :rofl:;) With that monsterous imaging train, imagine the torque on the tube/focusser interface!! Whoa!!

Looking good though mate ... do you find yourself staring at it with a grin on your face? :) Alas, if Newcastle weather is like Sydney weather right now (where my my new mount is in danger of going moldy ... and I need webbed feet, a mask and snorkel to get to the obs ... ) you may be waiting a while for first light. :sadeyes::mad2: Here's hoping I'm wrong and you get it out under the stars very soon!

Cheers, Marcus

[strongmanmike]

Hello guys :hi:

He he, unfortunately I have done this before remember :rolleyes: so already know what works :thumbsup:...although that scope had bad astigmatism :mad2:

This was just a mock-up photo shoot on the dinning table you nits! :rolleyes: :lol:

In the attached photo below the ASA N12 was in perfect balance all over the sky, so I am quite confident the AG12 will be very similar.

Regarding the dew falling on the corrector Marc, I will have a dew heater wrapped around the corrector between the Atlas and the corrector flange.

Tim, no not really, one USB cable to the guide camera and one USB cable to the ProLine that's it, the other is just the mouse :).

Marcus, I think I will be leaving them in place :eyepop:, at least to start with! :thumbsup:

Rob, looks are one thing but ah huh!...performace is what counts.

Marki, I think they got missed before packing..? Orion have said just to wipe them off with a bit of cleaner...must do that...

Mike

[multiweb]

Couldn't help smiling looking at the round stones in the back of your shots. They look familiar. Do you still take them around the block for old time's sake? :lol:

[strongmanmike]

Funny you should say that, I used to throw them around like pebbles...now I struggle to just roll them out of the way to mow under them :sadeyes: :lol:

Mike

[netwolf]

Congrats Mike on a great scope. Cant wait to see the pics you churn out of this kit.

[David Fitz-Henr]

Hello Mike, just trying to understand why you would place it there? I would think the bottom field lens would be the most likely to dew up. Do you know how far it protrudes inside the tube wall when focused? I guess if it gets cold enough you could get dew forming inside the upper section of the corrector as well so may be a good idea.
It appears that the corrector needs to be positioned out from the focuser/adapter - possibly you need a collar to clamp around the corrector so that it can be easily placed at approximately the correct focus position?

[strongmanmike]

We think alike Dave so at my request a collar just like you suggest is on its way from Orion Optics as we speak. It will have grub screws to set it in position so when re-inserted, after removal for collimation, will seat the corrector in the exact focus position each time :thumbsup:

Regarding the placement of the dew heater strap, I think the corrector will protrude about the amount seen in this photo (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/133046312/original)maybe less?..but I will not know for sure until I do my first corrector focus set run. Short of constructing a dewzapper that consists of a thin strip that I can wrap around that end of the corrector, there will not be enough room for the standard heater straps I have, so I thought I would try and see if by heating the top of the corrector barrel would be sufficient to keep the end lens clear...? Perhaps not but this is all part of the shake down I guess :thumbsup:

Mike

[David Fitz-Henr]

Do you intend running the fans whilst you are imaging? If so, then dew should not form inside the tube. Shane from Dream Telescopes has done extensive testing (in a colder climate than ours) and even recommends (for his FAST air system) leaving the fans on permanently for remote observatories as not only does it prevent dew, but keeps the spider webs out as well!

[strongmanmike]

Yes, will try that :thumbsup:

Mike

[Bassnut]

mmm, thats exactly what I did. In a bit over a year, ALL (OTA, cam, powersupplies, some 7 fans all up) died. Not good for remote Observatories. Its hard, time consuming and expensive to regularly replace every fan.

[strongmanmike]

I wouldn't run'em 24/7 (did I mention I had no observatory :question: :lol:) only during imaging sessions.

Mike

[gregbradley]

Also the amount of dust build up on the scope mirror it would cause.

8 months of very part time use has me working out the best way to clean the mirror already.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Also, according to Orion Optics, the enhanced aluminium HILUX coatings on my mirors have a reflectance of nearly 97% so I can have a lot of dust collect on my mirrors before I am operating at the normal overcoated aluminium level of 91% :thumbsup:. I am imagining cleaning the mirrors perhaps once (?) a year..?

MIke

[h0ughy]

lol i remember a certain kookaburra shot that may have you doing that more often Mike ;)

[gregbradley]

Its the windy nights that do the most amount of dust pile up. If clear nights weren't so rare at the moment I would not use the scope on a windy night. And my observatory is very very sheltered.

Greg.

[ericwbenson]

Most reflectors (excluding department store scopes) have 96% average reflectivity coatings these days (my >5 yr old C11 and C14 have them), the rarity are large 99% dielectric coated mirrors. But the amount of lost light is actually not a big problem, if that was the case just expose 5% or 10% longer. The contrast loss is the more annoying factor, that can't be fixed by exposing longer.

EB

[strongmanmike]

Hi EB

I am aware many scopes have enhanced coatings these days but it wasn't that long ago that 91% was considered good, I was more trying to make a point that a bit of dust isn't really an issue until it gets to significant levels :thumbsup:

Mike

[gregbradley]

Its a judgement call about when to clean mirrors. The normal advice is to not clean it very often. But I have read conflicting reports where a few clean fairly regularly.

Also I imagine dust is harder to remove if its been there for 2 years as opposed to 6 months. It must bake or stick on after a while.

Windy nights are the real enemy here. They can deposit 6 months worth of calm night dust in one night.

Greg.