Have a good weekend - forget the A***guard

[Argonavis]

The following is an unabashed commercial plug for a product that I have found so much superior to what most people use that I consider I should share this secret with all.

Whilst I have found that I am generally invisible to the female of the species homo, my attractiveness to the females in all the species in the family Culicidae is astounding. They seek me out in crowds. People like having me around at nights as I am the perfect decoy. To avoid these little blood suckers, I have used that product in the blue can for many years. I have put up with the smell, and the sticky residue on my skin and bed clothing. Even so, I am still regularily buzzed and about half a dozen desperate females always manage to find those few patches of skin that only have one layer of repellant on, rather than several. Last night was typical, with a number of bites from some pesky mozzies who are unable to read the "tropical strength" label on the side of the can, or to find the smell of this stuff repugent enough to forgo a meal. Of course, there is much written (on this forum and other) about observing equipment and techniques. There is a little less on observer comfort - adjustable chairs, cold weather clothing etc. Very few talk about mosquitoes. The only article I have ever read on them (in a publication aimed at the amateur astronomy market) was by Rod Mollise in his excellent Skywatch newsletter. This quarterly publication is downloadable from his site. Rod wrote an article where he basically said that the only useful repellants :) contains DEET. Nothing else will work. So for years I have used the stuff in the blue can, until recently I was told about RID. I was told that applying it will mean that you think there is no mozzies around tonight. So I tried the stuff in the purple can, and it works. Well. Really well. The smell is pleasant and the mozzies keep their distance. For someone like me, this is great. All my blue cans have gone in the bin, replaced by purple cans. It smells like perfume to me, and as long as it keeps those females away, I will be one happy sky brower.
:)

[davidpretorius]

thanks, RID it is

[astronut]

Ditto!!!!:scared: They love me too. My wife says it's the woggy blood!!

[Starkler]

Interesting. I have heard that Deet should be used sparingly due to toxic build up in humans. I wonder how RID fares in that regard.

[BerzerkerNerd]

Skips suffer from the affliction too!, rid works for me also, but the one with antiseptic additive and neutral scent leaves an oily residue on any skin- must shower before going to bed. Think ill buy the regular rid next time.

[Dennis]

Thanks for that Bill; mossies certainly are one of the biggest pests for we astronomers. I'm not sure if it a combination of body chemistry, skin characteristics or being plainly unattractive, but I find that a "natural" citronella spray works sufficiently well for me, leaving fewer concerns than the "strong" chemical alternatives.

Cheers

Dennis

[stinky]

Personally I find AeroGuard good for mossies but Rid is better for sandflies.

[Argonavis]

I suspect that old age will kill you before the DEET does. I am already full of lots of chemicals, a few more won't hurt.

[Argonavis]

I have also heard people assert that megadoses of Vitamin B keeps the mozzies away. I haven't done a controlled trial of this, but it really doesn't appeal to me.

Although I do get fed up with putting stuff on every time I go outside.

[Dennis]

Hey Bill - I also tried this and it turned my urine yellow which I assume to mean my system could not absorb the stuff so I was wasting it!

Cheers

Dennis

[stinky]

Actually it does work - to a degree. It makes your skin more oily and less attractive. So if in a group the mossies will favour somebody else.

A good way to build up B is to drink bottle fermented beer - the residue is full of it! Yum!

[Stu]

Geoff, maybe the poisoness chemical you are thinking of is DDT (1,1,1-Trichloro-2,2-bis(p-chlorophenyl)ethane). Harmless in small doses but in dissolved in body fat so can eventually build up to be very very bad.

DDT was wanned in all countries, since the 1960's. Except Australia which keep using it for much longer. :o

DEET old name but now commerical name, not sure where the 2nd E comes from. New standard name N,N-diethyl-3-methylbenzamide. Repllent, clear oily liquid, relatively non-toxic.

All is good guys! :)

[Argonavis]

Dennis - it depends on what you mean by wasting. I think the mechanism is that the Vitamin B is maintained at high levels in the blood until excreted by the kidneys. So you need to keep topping it up. The high levels make your blood unattractive to mozzies (never heard the oily bit but maybe more likely - by the time they have gotten a taste and spat it out it is too late).

Same with lots of garlic, also presumably makes your blood less attractive. Makes everything less attractive.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I having owned a peticide company in south africa, had experience and knowledge of a lot of what the "Joe Public' is kept in the dark of ( excuse the pun )

I use to sell a product there called BioKill, it is non toxic and uses a specific Permethrin isomer. I know it is totaly non-toxic, because I did some of the toxicity trials on my self, including the drinking of 2 litres of the product per day for five days!!!! Yip it is exstreme, but if you believe in something, you got to put your mouth where your money is too... ( ps, I do not recommend or encourge anyone to do this.)

anayways to cut a long story short, you can't get BioKill in Australia, even though we and others have tried to register it here...( call it closed shop by the old boys club... in some quarters ;) ) but you can mail order it into Australia for personal use only.

but you can get it in Singapore, Hong Kong, most of Europe, the USA and South Africa. It has no smell at all, is like a sopay water in feel. And I will bet my LX200GPS 12 inch, if you spray it on you correctly, you will not get a single mossie or midge bite ( yes Culicidae family ) for about 4 hours per application

ps,, here is the website ( please modirators don't remove!!!) inspect protecton is something vital in our hobby, combined with Ross River Fever and West Nile Virus and Malaria being killers world wide. It is resposable to pass this knowledge around, so we all can get the best product. Lastly I odn;t own the company and even have contact with the industry any nore.

www.jesmond.com (http://www.jesmond.com) the BioKill site

Tony

[stinky]

Will this stuff work on sand flies?

[Ziggy Stardust]

it will work on any cold blooded insect.

great for sandy fleas and sand flies.

I use it on my cats, dogs, horses and us too...

not mutch it does not keep off you.

also great for keeping spiders off curtains..

Tony

[stinky]

Only cold blooded insects? :)

Sounds great - would like to get some as a way of managing paper wasps here. Do you know of any comparable product here? Can we make it here? Is permethrin a controlled substance. This stuff would work in sooo many differnt applications - getting sick of the smell of Aerogaurd - and Rid!

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's easer to make Nuclear bombs in your back yard in Australia, than get a permit to work with Permethrin or any pesticides...;)


There is no equivalent porduct in Ozz...:sad: and to make and register it would cost about ten times the porfit of the first 5 years!!!!! Talk about a closed shop, you would have to redo dozens of trials, as they don't accept international trials done Europe or USA or Japan etc..

but as I said... go the website www.jesmond.com (http://www.jesmond.com) and find the Singapore agents or Hong Kong agents. ;) I order normaly about 5 litres ( bulk container) and it lasts me about four to six months... ( I hate bugs when I'm fishing or stargazzing)

or do a google search for Bio Kill.

Tony

[stinky]

OK - what about this then? A good equivelent?

EQUIS Shoofly 125ml
A concentrayte that can be diluted to a wash or spray
Prythroid
Can be used as an aid in the treatment of queensland itch , and to control flys and biting insects.
Pleasant smelling. Adds gloss and shine to the coat.
Active ingredient permethrin 40gr / Litre

[wavelandscott]

I am cautious in entering this thread as the company I work for is a major global manufacture and supplier of many pesticides (household, PCO and other)...including permethrin and a whole range of other isomer synthetic pyrethroids (SP) as well as other non-SP insecticides...there are many many products that can effectively control mosquito and other flying insects but few are registered for use directly sprayed on human skin...I would never ever suggest or encourage the use of a household SP based insecticide sprayed directly on to your skin as it can be dangerous...many people can show rash or skin irritation by coming in contact with SP (or other insecticides)...be careful and follow the label recommendations...

Insecticides kill insects...repellents do just that repel insects...there is a difference...

Attached is a link that talks about different products and their repellency effectveness...by and large in almost all of them the active ingredient is the same...DEET...there is a newer product (picardin or something like this) that I think is approved for use in Australia but I am not familiar with...

http://www.choice.com.au/viewarticleasonepage.aspx?id=105015&catId=100281&tid=100008&p=1

Insecticide (all pesticides) including repellents are a heavily regulated industry as it should be. Australia is fortunate in that it's regulations are concerned with not only safety (health and environment) but also requires efficacy data to be submitted to gain registration...this at least gives some asurance that any product you buy has been tested and has passed a stringent assesment for safety and efficacy. Yes, it is expensive and yes, it does take time and effort but it is worth it as a society...Having said that, remember!

In all cases people should read, understand and follow the label use directions.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I know Shoofly very well, but it's not the same!!!
Permethrins have different isomerisations ( excuse spelling), ie where the different atoms fit on the chain to each other. it can be a 25:75 or 50:50 or 75:25 isomerisation , all three are Permethrin, but all three have different effects, toxicty and even products life and some even smell different. You need to be looking for something that has no other DEET or Cypermethrin etc.. in it and has a Permethrin with a 75:25 ratio an around 3~4 grams per litre max for human contact. They say a good thing is hard to copy....;)
Bayer have a simular product but for some reason does not worl as well.

I would spray the BioKill on me and my tripod when viewing, found spraying the tripod, stopped mozzies hanging around the scope and spiders crawling up the legs :scared: nothing like six legs suddenly appearing in the view finder :scared:

ps, the good products are nirmaly in several countries and will have food and beverage approval in the USA (EPA class 4 ) and Europe

Tony

also check for a website on products. Safe ones will have data on the Toxic Effects and Dangers
you looking for something as safe as this, to use on yourself... otherwise:P

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Acute oral toxicity, rats (LD 0) > 5'000 mg/kg</TD><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#94ffcf>not measurable</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Acute dermal toxicity, rats (LD 0) > 5'000 mg/kg</TD><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#94ffcf>not measurable</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Acute inhalation toxicity, rats (4h LC 0) > 4'000 mg/m3</TD><TD vAlign=top bgColor=#94ffcf>not measurable</TD><TR><TD colSpan=2><TT>Primary skin irritation</TT></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>no effect</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no effect</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><TT>Primary eye irritation</TT></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>no effect</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no effect</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><TT>Special investigations</TT></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Skin irritation, human</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no irritation (24h)</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Repeated wetting, dog</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no toxic effects</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Repeated wetting, hen</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no toxic effects</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#fff0d0>Swimming test, rats</TD><TD bgColor=#94ffcf>no toxic effects</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Agents for Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Malaysia, Indonesia ( so get some on the next Bali Trip ;) )
http://www.biokill.com.hk/

[mickoking]

G,day cobbers,


Yeah the blue can doesn't work for me either. But the smell is a classic Aussie perfume. It always brings back memories of me observing thru my crapmeister 60mm telescope as a kid in Sydney.:astron:

[Ziggy Stardust]

sorry mate, i'm not going to contribut further....here I get your drift..;)
but I'll make one little comment.

If it's so well regulated and controlled, why are there still so many poeple that die every year in australia from working with commercial pestcides and the use of pesticides that are outlawed in many other first world countries. It's more about regulating a closed shop and keeping the "old-boys club" happy and wealthy. How can products used in all the major EU countries, USA, Japan, Hong kong etc... battle to get into Australia with totaly safe products and 25 years of use and research??? When did Australia stop using DDT compared to other Western Nations??

enuff said.

sorry people, go use the bushman :prey2: etc... ignore my comments

Tony

[RAJAH235]

fwiw, I find that the 'Homebrand' roll on insect repellent, works very well. (Just watch the plastic spectacle frames & synth. clothes). Smells nice 2. :D L.

[Stu]

I find the blue works for me but I probably spray it on until I'm dripping.

[BerzerkerNerd]

Some major retailers sell a repellent product(dont have the name just now) that are like big fat incense sticks made out of sandlewood. A few of these stuck in the ground around the scope area in a triangle or square do actually seem to work on mozzies and midges/sandflies so far.
Still road testing, but seem to get a six hour burn from a stick if breeze is light.
Could be an alternative to chemical body smear and besides smells 100% better.
Has this worked or not worked for anyone else :confuse2:

[Argonavis]

I would be very wary of burning anything near an optical surface. Smoke contains all sorts of tars and chemicals that I would not want on any of my optical surfaces. Same with smokers.

[Stu]

Yeh could cause bushfires, so be careful!!!

[gaa_ian]

We live in Mozzie heaven here in the tropics.
Our club uses "Autan" as our standard repellant.
The Choise survey gives it a 96% effectivness after 4 hrs !
We find it is not as harsh on the skin as the clasic "Blue Can".
We usaually light a number of coils around our observing area, all this together seems to help !

[BerzerkerNerd]

Good points fellas. will be carefull.