Confused about many things

[BowzerS14]

Hi all, new to these forums obviously
My question is i want a first scope that i can get clear and crisp images of the planets and even deep space objects (The best of both worlds!!! ). I have read many of the posts on here about big apperture reflectors on dobsonian mounts. But then i have read for better view quality that reflectors are the way to go even though they have much smaller apperture. Not looking at spending a fortune but i already made the mistake of buying a Teds Busmens 114mm scope and it was terible. So i took it back. Looking at something substantially better than this.
It seems that the Guan Sheng scopes from andrews are reasonably priced. The 8" dob for that matter.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Great page BTW. :)

[janoskiss]

Glad you returned the junk scope! :thumbsup:

8" Dob is a great scope! It will do your planets, deep space (Jupiter for breakfast ;)). One of the best for the $. I would recommend you spend the bit extra and buy from Bintel. What you get for the money is quality control, a scope that is ready-to-go (centre spotted & collimated), better starter eyepiece set, and last but not least, support. There is a Bintel shop in Melbourne now and they have the Dobs on display. The shop is run by experienced amateur astronomers. They really know their stuff and look after their customers.

[davidpretorius]

8" mate is good, i own a 10" reflector (dob). i have not had a decent look through a refractor. Objects that are smaller look better in terms of quality etc, cos they are smaller, you can't see the detail or imerfections etc.

There is no doubting refractors are great, but I find the 8,10 or 12" dobs the best value for money. You get to see so many things (depending on conditions of course).

I will be buying a refractor down the track cos there are specific things i want to odo ie wide field photography, but for most things, i would use my 10" db.

Take yourself in Bintel near toorak rd / monash freeway. The guys are great there. They have the lot in terms of telescopes. Best to take your time and ask lotsa questions.

Andrews are very good value, but so are the bintel when you throw in their backup and customer service. They are very good!

[astro_geek]

I started my astronomical life with an 8" and I think it was a great choice. You can see so many objects with an 8" that you could never see them all in your lifetime. It is also very portable and can fit in the boots of most cars. The only downside of reflectors is that you have to collimate them. This is where you align the mirrors so that they are pointing at each other (A quick search of the forum will find many threads on this topic). However once you have learnt how to do this it takes less than 5 minutes and become a non-issue. I'm sure that Roger at BINTEL in melbourne would be more than happy to show you ho to do this if you by the 8" from him. Welcome to astronomy, an 8" is a great choice :)

[BerzerkerNerd]

Hi, I have a 10" bintel and it is more than i need :o . Rather than aspire to the challenge of saving for a bigger scope to see more, I find pushing this scope as far as it can go and searching for great viewing conditions a more rewarding challenge, depends on what you want to use it for i guess:confuse3:. Any good telescope can teach you the science of astronomy and is a friend for life.
Have fun, Steve M.

[BowzerS14]

Thanks for the info peoples. So a reflector is the way to go. Ill go check Bintel out on the weekend and see what they have (only 10mins from home).

Cheers

[ving]

you are well on the road to discovery mate :)
I have the 8" which i bought from anderws (same scope as the one at bintel) and its great :)
you will have a ball with it :)

[RAJAH235]

Hi Bowzers14. :hi: & :welcome: Your choice of an 8" or 10" dob is fine. You have many nights of discovery before you. Enjoy your chosen hobby. :D L.
ps. A 'Chandler' (large version), planishere & red LED torch will come in handy as well.

[BowzerS14]

Thanks for the help.

Ive narrowed it down to three 8" scopes.

SkyWatcher SW680 (200mm) Dobsonian from MyAstroShop at $440

Guan Sheng GS-680-LTD $399.00 AUD from Andrews
The above dont include delivery to melbourne.

or the Bintel BT-202 8" Dobsonian Telescope $549.00 from Bintel
I think you get more accesories with the Bintel scope to.

Prices are similar, Bintel the most expensive but as you said thay colimate it for you and so on. There is sure to be a difference in quality between these scopes. Any thoughts would be appreciated. If there is a better option altogether please le me know.

Cheers

[janoskiss]

The main thing you get with the Bintel scope is great local support plus: better quality control, centre-spotted primary, a collimated scope and a more versatile eyepiece set. You could probably even negotiate an inexpensive upgrade to a Crayford focuser, which would be well worth it. It's good deal even if you buy it separately for $99 but I suspect you could do better buying it as an upgrade for the new scope and you can have it fitted too (considering Bintel is talking about ditching the "standard" line altogether and selling "deluxe" only).

To me there is no question about it, if you have the few extra dollars: buy from the local dealer Bintel. BTW, although the scope is collimated, you will still need to learn how to do this and redo from time to time (it does not stay "locked in" for ever). The guys at the shop can show you how. And if you are still having difficulties, they will show you again... and again... You don't realise how valuable the service and customer support side of the equation is till you have been into this hobby for a little while.

[davidpretorius]

ok lets allow $40 for delivery from sydney, that makes the difference just over $100 from the bintel. did myastroshop quote a price inc freight???

if it were me, I would be happy to be able to walk into bintel, talk with the guys and take it home, but not quite for $100 more.

Have you rung bintel or are you just checking the websites prices?

If you had said $499 for the bintel then i would say bintel straight away.

Ring em up, mention what you are looking at ie andrews / myastroshop / bintel. It doesn't hurt. Write down the freebies

For mine, i would be ordering the Guan Sheng GS-680-Deluxe-Crayford @ $549 plus freight or similiar. The crayford focusser is one of the best upgrades you can do.

So my ideal setup, would be a bintel with a crayford at around $600. Having the guys local is a big plus!!

I have just noticed janoskiss replying, he has the 8", so you should be in good hands.

[ving]

yeah dont be afraid to haggle just a bit...

so and so has this price, will you match it.... etc :)
it cant hurt, worst case scenario is they say no :)

[BowzerS14]

Nah the prices are just straight off the web so im sure i could negotiate a bit. Ill have to give Bintel a call and see if they are slightly flexible on $.

Once again thanks for your help.

Cheers

[rmcpb]

Go for the local supplier if you can afford it. The 8" is a great scope but get the Crayford focuser, its the best upgrade I have done so far.

Make sure you get a Cheshire eyepiece so you can collimate the scope accurately. I do this at the beginning of each session and it only takes seconds and ensures the best views under the conditions.

Welcome aboard :)

[janoskiss]

Yes, go for $600 with the Crayford upgrade (plus coffee & bicckies ;)).

[barees63]

IMHO having the primary center-spotted for you and the collimation done correctly (and having someone to demonstrate it) has to be worth the extra money.. although the collimation will need adjusting from time to time it will be much easier knowing they have already got the secondary stuff right and you should mostly just have to do minor adjustments to Primary tilt which is real easy.

You absolutely need a primary center spot so if you buy a scope without one you will have to take the primary mirror out (and probably out of it's cell) and work out how to place a perfectly centered spot yourself, I found this to be not much fun.

Bruce

[BowzerS14]

Another newbie question. What is a Craford style focuser. I understand it replaces the original focuser on ur scope but what is the difference between "standard" and "crayford style". Y is it so much better?

Cheers people

[davidpretorius]

ill let janoskiss answer this one, but in layman's my crayford focuuser on my 10" is much smoother and subtle to tightly focus than the normal rack & pinion focusser that i have used on the 8" versions of my scope.

It feels silky smooth. It is adjustable, so that when i have a heavier eyepiece or an iimaging setup in, then I can tighten it up as needed.

[janoskiss]

No image shift (image you see shifts up or down as you change direction of focuser travel while trying to fine tune focus) and you get finer smoother control. Very useful at high magnifications.

As for accessories, we won't really need to tell you what else you might need/want (collimator, extra eyepiece, barlow etc etc) if you go to Bintel, because the guys running the shop can do that. They are straight shooters and very knowledgeable.

[ving]

mind you, my Rn'P works nice and smooth :)
i ripped her apart, got rid of the grease (reads glue), re lubed and away i go :)... went... i dont know...
what i am sayin, or trying to say is that if you cant get the crayford the Rn'P is quite serviceable once you do stuff to it. although others have had problems....
:confuse3:

[mickoking]

G,day Bowzwer


Where ever you decide to buy your scope you'll do well :thumbsup: 200 and 250mm Dobs are both good buys you can't go too wrong. Remember Astronomy should be fun don't get too caught up in equipment ( too start of with anyway) and ask LOTS of questions, there are a lot of experienced and friendly people on this forum :) ENJOY

[anthony2302749]

This is the Bintels' Premium scope which includes the Crayford focuser, fan, colour filters etc as advatised in Aust Sky & Tel and Sky & Space

[janoskiss]

There ya go! That should seal the deal for you Bowzer!! Go get that scope! :eyepop:
:thumbsup: Anthony!

[rmcpb]

If the Bintel one has a Crayford then there is no question!! go for it.

Cheers

[ThunderChild]

Welcome Bowzer!


Wow - you are facing a decision very similar to where I was at a month or so ago. Considered the 114mm from Ted's as well before doing my research and being warned off from the good people here. Things eventually came back to Bintel (Melb) and Andrew's Comms (Syd).

You can not possibly go wrong with either direction you seem to have before you. I ended up purchasing a 6" Guan Sheng Dob from Andrew's comms ($40 shipping) and was happy with the purchase. I did have to do a little home modding (the base was a little 'sticky' and I needed to clean out some threading on the side altitude mounts), but what I did was worth the savings I made IMHO. If it wasn't as important to keep the initial cost down, I would have probably gone to Bintel though - if nothing else, just so that I could talk to someone face to face who know's what they're on about.

8' Dob - you'll be better off than me, and I'm still excited everytime it looks like it's going to be clear skies. You're going to have lots of fun!
Let us know what you decide.

Where abouts in Melb are you?

Cheers,
Chris

[BowzerS14]

Thanks for the help. if the scope from Bintel includes a crayford style focuser and all the other things mentioned then it is definately the way to go. Still havent been in to see them yet (Been Busy), but i will definately go this weekend.


Hey Thunderchild
Yeah i made the mistake of not asking questions before i bought the Teds shifty scope. The thing was terrible, i couldnt even bolt it together without boring out holes and so on, i mashed it together and it was even worse. So i took it back.

Ill let u guys know how it goes with Bintel if i make it there.

Cheers

[janoskiss]

:poke: Anthony works at Bintel. If he says it comes with the crayford and fan, then you can be sure it does.

[davidpretorius]

i would have paid $600 for it.

easy decision now i reckon!

[janoskiss]

It is got to be the best deal on an 8" Dob in the country! And that includes the non-specialist heavy discounters.

[BowzerS14]

Hi all
I gave them a quick call a few days ago and he said they only have 1 left mayb. SO i dont think ill get it cause i cant get there till tomorrow.
Anyway he said it cam with a Crayford focuser, 3 eyepieces, moon filter, a Barlow mayb (Cant remember). He said it didnt come with filters and he didnt mentiona a fan. Once i get in there im sure it will be different, like mentioned in the add.

Cheers

[BowzerS14]

Hi all

I went to Bintel on Saturday morning and i got the last 8" they had. They were just about to set it up for display!!
It came with, Crayford style focuser, cooling fan, coloured filters, 8x50 finder and three eyepieces (one 2" and two 1.25")
The 2" is 32mm and then a 9mm and 15 or 20mm 1.25".
It also came with a book/magazine with a heap of charts and other info. Confusing and interesting at the same time. Ill get the hang of it over time i suppose.
I didnt have instructions (There posting them to me) but the base went together easily enough.
The bad thing is the weather was crap on saturday night were i was and i had to leave last night for work this week, and the weather was great last night!!!! (I cant fit it in my car)
So i havent actually got to use it yet. Looking forward to the weekend.

Cheers
PS: The guys at Bintel were a lot of help

[ving]

congrats :)
you'll love it :)

its all a learning experience from here and dont be afraid to ask questions, we love helping :)

[rmcpb]

You are off and running now! That is one mighty fine scope, not that I am biased at all :)

You must have a mighty small car if you can't put it in with you.

As for the clouds, its just the astro curse, don't worry about it, usually for a new first scope you can expect at least a month of crappy weather but it will go away.

Couple of things to try which are dirt cheap:

Put your scope outside every reasonable night when you first get home. That way it will be ready for viewing in any gaps that occur in the clouds.
Make a dew shield/light pollution shield out of some manilla folders velcroed to the front of your scope to stop ambient light from getting into your eyepiece and wrecking your contrast.
Keep your scope collimated.
Use your scope every chance to get used to the constellations, navigation and simply using the scope so you will be ready for the good nights.


Its a beauty

[davidpretorius]

well done bowzer.

the journey begins!

some targets at a few different objects for you http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=7264

also as rob says, on the drive home, check out the weather, and before the wife or girlfriend gets a hello and a kiss on the cheek, you go from yoiur car to your beloved and take it outside to cool the mirror, after about 2 or 3 hours of getting sidetracked and "just one more" object, you can then go upstairs and say hi to the family!

[janoskiss]

Nice one Bowser! Sounds like you got a great deal. That is one awesome scope, well set up, with everything you need (although I bet you'll be asking about barlows in the not too distant future ;)). It took me a lot of work to get my Dob to the level of usability you are getting off the shelf: centre spot, upgrade focuser, fit fan. :thumbsup:

Enjoy! Check out Saturn tonight if you can. It's been looking great last couple of nights.

[BowzerS14]

oh man i cant use it till the weekend cause i cant fit it in my car thus its at my house in melbourne (Im a uni student and working 65k's out of the city atm).
Yeah rmcpb i have a "sports car" so there is no room anywere to put something like this without it getting bounced and bashed to bits.
My GF car has the room but she uses it during the week dam it. I might trek it back to the city one night to have a stab at it.
Thanks for the tips guys, gotta remember to put it outside before i use it!!!!

Yeah a Barlow would be good. I assume that 2x means double the magnification for that eyepiece. I like the idea of that very much cause looking through small holes is a pain!!

Cheers and thanks again.
PS: Anthony showed me how to collimate it, seems to me the laser is the easiest way to do it.

[ving]

aahhh! the pains of sportscar ownership :P

i was going to get a 300zx a few years back, glad i didnt now :P

[rmcpb]

Well now you have a real hobby you know the cure for a "sports" car, a sensible station wagon :)

[BowzerS14]

Ah the problems of having two hobby's. Cars and scopes. I finish working in the country soon so i will be back in melbourne. Sweeeet!!!!!

I think i will go back during the week and use it. I cant resist.

[matt]

The astro bug bites deep, my friend. Scratch and scratch... and scratch some more, and still the itch continues.

But what a sweet irritation:P

[mickoking]

Yes It cetainly does ;)


BTW bowzer make sure you give us a review of ya 'scope :)

[BowzerS14]

No problems mickoking. I need some good weather and to be back in melbourne. Hopefully this saturday night will be good. I think thats the first chance im going to get to use it!!!!!

I had a look at Bintels web page and they have 1.25" and 2" Barlows at a asimilar price $69 V $99. I had a very brief chance to use the scope the day i got it in torquay (No time to set it up properly as the clouds were on there way so i dont really count this as using it properly). The 32mm 2" piece was great (mind u it was the only one i got to use). Ive seen a few threads on 2" V's 1.25" and it seems to come down to personal preference.
I like the idea of doubling the mag of the 32mm and still getting a nice wide FOV (or does ur FOV decrease to because of the increase in magnification). So i think this is the road i will take if i still get a nice wide FOV.

Cheers all