Good try Rumples!

[Stu]

I thought your spam thread was rather amusing. Pushing the boundries! We need a replacement for Ken while he's not posting anyway (which we definitely won't talk about or we'll be banned or something).

I funniest part was when the plug was pulled. Topped it off. To bad I can't rate the thread now. ;)

Anyway, it was fun while it lasted.

[asimov]

Lol

[rumples riot]

Yeah the Nazi's have their orders. I thought that spam was supposed to be ok in the General Chat area. In fact I am certain that the moderating team decided on this rule when I was a moderator. Now things have changed again it seems. No sense of humour guys. I fail to understand why we can't have one thread and infect that and not all the other threads. Now we shall just have to infect all the other threads.

[Starkler]

Be advised that the three moderators still present have been asked to clamp down on spam and not allow a repeat of the spam circus that happened around the time of the Ballarat star camp.



Having to take action on childish antics is never cute or funny for a moderator.

[rumples riot]

Geoff, we understand that you are required to curb silly behaviour, but if we are not allowed to muck around a bit people will leave and not come back. Mike will be left with a site that is devoid of entertainment.

I understand that we need a bit of control so that the more seriously minded will not leave either. However the only reason I come here is for entertainment. If the site is not entertaining then you can have it.

I think to use the word Childish is a little harsh. Just chill mate and we will not go mad. If you clamp down too hard you will have rebellion you cannot stop.

[Robby]

Don't like, then it don't read it... With SPAM in the thread title it's easy to avoid, and easier to close I guess... :D

[Robby]

I like apple pie.

[Exfso]

This place is getting more and more like Germany in the 30's talk about dictatorship, ****** hell I thought this was supposed to be an open area, not so it appears. Talk about a good way to lose the nicer people on the forum..I really cant believe that this is happening. Zieg Hiel... :scared: :scared:

Viva La Revolution.....

[Robby]

and sometimes custard pie.

[rumples riot]

lets burn the books.

[Stu]

It is icemans site though. It's not our site. Mike is a nice guy and we should respect his directions to moderators. But in trying to cater for everyone there will be people left out.

What I want to know is, who are the people who are offended by apple pie. My wife is a Christian and she isn't.

[stinky]

I want to kick up a stink. I frequent various forums. All for information, entertainment and fun.

My issues:

My user name was a problem for the admin - and not just my first choice, subsequent ones also - started to feel that joining the forum should be a case of - your user name IS "xyz" - So threw choosing a user name to the members and had the di-stinkt impression that this left a bad smell too. Ease up guys - ID is a personal thing - especially when not profane or rude.

Tried to post a wanted ad' in Buy / Sell but found this is not possible - too new! FF(G)S what's the first thing a newbie will want to do? If you don't foster that you wil lremain with old members - the new will move on. It'd be great to grow this forum! More for more!

Humour - it's not too bad here. Remove it and I will be gone. So will many others - make the scene to clubish/exclusive and nobody wil join in.

Mods/Admin - people only come here to ENJOY - kill the fun - and you kill the forum.

Hopefully this will be food for thought and the forum goes from great to even better.

Humble regards - YOUR stinky.

[stinky]

BTW - quasi nuclear phaseinterupted dipthong retarders are now available in commercial quantities - but are definetly R18.

[Stu]

I don't know what this means but I agree with your previous post. Humour is extremely important. Essentiall.

[davidpretorius]

to be honest, i don't think any of us are going to go more overboard just cos mike is away. I personally believe the site has a good mix at the moment.

The official spam thread from ballarat was funny. My biggest worry is an over reaction "cos mike is away" in moderating cos mike didn't want a repeat.

feel for the moderators - damned if they do and damed if they don't.

we can talk about favourite dvd's , but don't mention spam.

most threads of a serious nature are spam free, but we still have the funny ones in the general section.

i personally do not think the mix is bad and needs any clamping down and i repeat, i do not think it will get out of control just cos mike is away. we seem to self moderate very well!

[stinky]

Spam is canned!

[Robby]

Can you get apple pin in a can?

[Stu]

Dave P. that was quite well articulated and I agree.
Hey you should do a Saturn opposition count down in your sig.

[Stu]

Robby what's an apple pin? :P

[mick pinner]

does anyone else find all this big brother carry on as pathetic as l do, no members, no site, no moderators, careful.

[stinky]

His site (at least the forum part) is dependent on contributors and posters. Lose them and you have a linear site.

[Stu]

There will always be I site for astronomers in Australia now. I saw a break-away forum set up in less than an hour once. Amazing (but easier than you think, forum templates like this one are available free). It's now a lot more popular than the original too.

Same circumstances. Private site originally, now it's on yahoo and public, no one owns it. The moderators come and go and it lives by itself. This is the most common and most successful forum model.

Having said that I still think iceinspace is great if I love it for what it is and not for what it isn't.

[rumples riot]

Why is it that everytime we have a little fun, it gets canned. Is it a problem if a thread runs into 10 pages long, what does it matter what the content is? So long as it is not offensive. I guess it seems that being silly is offensive.

Robby might be hard to fit the pastry all the way round the tin for the Pie.

[stinky]

Hey I'm a newbie here - is General Chat here different than other forums? What are the rules I'm missing? :)

[mickoking]

G,day cobbers,

I reckon IIS is the best forum on the net period. Mike and the moderators do a great job even though I don't always agree with their rulings my self. If the rules are too loose the community will turn into a parody of it's self, lose relevence and dissapear. Too strict and the site will become boring and conservative 'astronerd' site. There is always a balance to be struck, by and large the balance is right.

Chill ;)

[astrogeek]

May I just say,

[astrogeek]

Spam

[astrogeek]

Is

[astrogeek]

Fun!

[rumples riot]

To my way of thinking and the rules as originally expounded by the moderating team (I was the first moderator, since resigned) that spam could not be eliminated from the site all together. To try and do so would kill the site. It needed to be vented somewhere and it was agreed that it should be allowed to be exhibited in the General Chat section. Now that there are over 700 members it seems that Mike is no longer scared of loosing members, he has decreed that spam will not be tolerated. What sort of prat thinks they are in control of this site. Sure we are appreciative of Mikes momentum and foresight; and to the moderators that keep this site working and running effectively, but lets not fool ourselves, you can't control this. To do so will only make things worse.

As I see it, anything is general chat is by and large spam. Now something that is unwanted is spam. So if someone starts a thread and someone comes along and hijacks that thread with inane gibberish; this is spam. However, if I start a thread and encourage people to spam, it is my thread and I do not consider it to be unwanted rubbish. It is not the call of the moderating team to close my thread which calls for others inane rubbish.

So that is where we stand. Only way to stop this is to Ban people, and they won't do this cos they know that it will create a reaction and backlash. That being people will leave the site. So even though it is MIkes creation, the site does not strictly belong to him. We all create the site and maintain it by our very imput. How many threads are going to get started and contributed to if 3/4 of the active members leave the site. Ergo the site belongs to all of us. Not some egomaniacs.

Make the choice, make a stand. Start as many threads in the General chat you want on any subject you like, so long as you don't think it is spam.

[Mick]

Spam was here from the beginning.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=3&highlight=IceInSpace

[Starkler]

Paul I think you overestimate the number of the number who think nonsense spam is good for this site. Yes the ones who spam a lot are the vocal minority and are few in number.
What cannot be measured is the number of people who could make valuable contributions to this site who just shake their head and leave, never to return.

This site DOES belong to Mike. He does not make money from it and for him and us moderators its a labour of love. Consider IIS to be Mikeland and you are his guest here. Mikeland is not a democracy but is a benevolent dictatorship and he has appointed deputies who are called moderators.

Just consider this. If it gets all too hard Mike could just consider all the pain of running this site to be not worth the trouble and pull the pin. Now wouldnt that make you feel all warm and fuzzy ?

The views expressed above are my personal views only

[stinky]

A few threads, or different views are to cause so much pain - enough to give up the site? Come on....

[rumples riot]

Vocal minority, I think not. Every person here has spammed at one point in time. Some more frequently than others. We are not suggesting that spam should be tolerated in the serious forums, just that as you know it was agreed not to interfere with it in the general chat section. If people shake their heads and walk away they need to get a life. Their is more to life than astronomy and being serous about it. I think you underestimate the number of people who email each other on a regular basis about the draconian rules that are applied indifferently to this site and to which thread. This site has created a huge email network and many people have made complaints.

The site cannot exist without both the users and the imput of the moderators and the Admin. I am a owner of company and employ currently 12 men. I for one know that things like this are a co-operative. So while mike does own the rights of the site, the site is nothing without us.

If Mike were to close the site, another one would pop up. Besides people donate to the upkeep of this site. They are the shareholders in its future.

This more than ever confirms what many of us think.

[davidpretorius]

I would have said that there is not much spam nowadays. I know that ken & asimov and I were main offenders, but gone are the days of serious threads being crushed.

The general thread section is pretty much where it stays. The odd funny comment about someones posted image etc where you know the guy like a bit of banter is about as bad as it gets.

For me this is not an astronomy only forum, this is a forum where i share my passion for this hobby with my astronomy mates from around the world. There is a difference.

I see it as an extension of what i would do in person with a fellow member face to face.

When i catch up with rumples in march for the first time, 90% of the chat will be about his scope and my scope and other astronomy stuff. The other 10% will be banter about anything that we find funny. We may chat about the ducks on the lake, or the antics of paris hilton.

I can't see why the site can't reflect this face to face scenario????

It seems like the call has gone out "while mike is away", lock it down, don't let what happened last time to happen. Ken's official spam thread last time was the normal banter that occurs everyday. Just because it has "SPAM" in the title, it was frowned upon. It had nothing to do with astronomy, but 90% of kens and mine and asimovs and rumples do. We post images, we help newbies, we have a joke with them. (I know i appreciated the easy going atmosphere when i joined).

I say it again, the balance has been great for months and months and with the big influx of new guys lately who seem to have that same 90% astro / 10% aussie larrikan, then i can't see what is wrong and why this issue has reared its head unneccessarily? The future look bright!

[mick pinner]

This site DOES belong to Mike. He does not make money from it and for him and us moderators its a labour of love. Consider IIS to be Mikeland and you are his guest here. Mikeland is not a democracy but is a benevolent dictatorship and he has appointed deputies who are called moderators.

l say this with the greatest respect Geoff but for gods sake settle down, figures of 700 may be spouted by people to show the popularity of this site but lets be realistic it is frequented by a relatively small percentage of these people on a regular basis.

Check the people who have posted each day, same old same old.

At the end of the day it may be a great site but it is only an astronomy site, we are not solving the problems of the world, as for benevolence even god would cease to exist if we all stopped believing.

[stinky]

Tried Guest - but was frowned upon.

[rumples riot]

Thanks guys, this is the show of support I hoped for. Well thought out responses to the issues at hand. As per normal with a sense of humour.

[stinky]

Looks like threads are being removed now, not just closed. I heard you mention Nazi's - I see the brown shirts a'comin'.....

Site has been hacked?

[lost_in_space]

It seems to me that there been a distinct change in atmosphere on this site in the short time I have been a member, and I think it is for the worse. It seems that the light hearted fun and humour that was so appealing when I discovered this site is not longer allowed.
From my observations posters generally (but not always) adhere to the posting guidlines, with specialised forums being treated as such. Those who breach the guidlines for these forums with spam and general chit chat deserve to be bounced by the moderators, but the header for General Chat specifically says "Talk about anything and everything in here!" and I think it should be hands off for the moderators unless there is a breach of the very sensible general forum guidelines.

[stinky]

Mate - they even delete threads now without discussion or reason. Might be new here but see NOTHING fom the powers that be which is "light hearted fun". Shame - it sure could get real bland without it - bit like eating spam everyday.

[astrogeek]

I agree with everything. The easy-going atmosphere is great (although maybe was is a better word now).

[Starkler]

Threads need to have a point and purpose.

[davidpretorius]

i am going to spam this one!

lost in space, how is that new scope????? - start a new thread and let us know.

i had excellent seeing conditions a few nights ago - did you???

[stinky]

So pay attention!

[astrogeek]

Every thread has a point (Being stupid or just funny is a point). The person obviously has a point and purpose, if you do something there is always a purpose. STOP USING THIS LAME EXUSE AND ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[astrogeek]

ALSO ADMIT THAT WE ARE RIGHT!!!! Either allow all threads in general chat (That are not offensive) or change the description to "Talk about anything and everything in here, but only if the moderators say that what you want to talk about is okay!"

[stinky]

Been doing a good job of censorship tonight - and certainly of non-profane or offensive stuff. Makes you wonder how much else is filtered her and what kind of person would do it. How long has this been going on?

[rumples riot]

Ever since I resigned from being a moderator there has been a constant closing of threads and editing. I am the thorn in the side of some here. I am seen as being the instigator of problems.

Bear in mind that it is not all moderators. So don't blame them all. Besides this is not Geoffs fault, he is acting on instructions and he will carry them out. Very loyal and that is a good thing. So don't have a go at Geoff, have a go at the policy. The policy needs to be flexible.

[davidpretorius]

to be honest, not much.

as i keep saying, it shouldn't be an issue, but this "spam" issue raises it head every now and then.

I would not be a member here if i couldn't be "myself". I wouldn't waste my time, if tonight was what it was every night. I enjoy chatting about astronomy stuff and some other stuff.

It should settle down soon?

[davidpretorius]

i agree, that is one job i wouldn't want to be doing. you can't win!

[rumples riot]

I did this job Davo and I can tell you it is very thankless. However, the only winner is those that enjoy debate. Being an ex lawyer I thrive on this sort of stuff. It is what I loved most about law (being in court and arguing a case). So I am a winner in this regard, because I can post all night.

Now stay off the spam.

[stinky]

No doubt, no doubt.

But closing threads, and editing posts is one thing - outright deletion is cowardly. The fact that no-one has been warned about postings yet the posts / threads being deleted is un -"Forum" like don't you think?

[rumples riot]

Well Sir Stinky, someone has been told to "pull their head in" tonight. That was from a moderator to a junior member of this site. No explaination and then when questioning why he was told that he would be banned.

I agree in this regard, there are ways and means of approaching the subject. Deletion is problematic because it removes valued comments with a point. Yes I think the policy is that before posts are edited the moderator will inform the poster of the reason why and give a reasonable explaination. Telling someone to pull their head in is just being a THUG.

[lost_in_space]

Could you cite where it states that in the guidelines? Personally I find some of the spam purile, but some can be quite amusing, and as such it serves a purpose.

I repeat, the General Chat forum header specifically states "Talk about anything and everything in here!", and the exclamation mark at the end of the sentence re-inforces that. If you don't want people to talk about anything and everything then it should be clearly stated, and if that is the case then what is the reason for the existence of this particular forum?

[Starkler]

If you going to publicly criticise moderators actions then get your facts right.

No explanation was necessary as the offender knew full well what he was doing after having created about 10 pointless spam threads for the sake of agitating site moderators. The offender was later warned of the possible consequences of continuing to behave in this manner.

This campaign of agitation (which conveniently arises when Mike is away) has gone on long enough.