English linguistic question

[bartman]

Lately I have been bugged by the question of the use of the word 'good' and 'well' in sentences in tv shows and movies.
For example:
Upon completing something, the actor says " you've done good".
Shouldn't it be " you've done well" ?
( if you put ' killing those xxxx's' after the quote , it makes more sense)
I think it has become prevalent lately in movies and the like ( news stories et al) and not sure if it is correct English grammar.
Just like Cookies instead of Biscuits???? WTF?
I'm not from an English background......
.......but has anybody seen/heard the same
Is it Americanism?
No offence to the US of A.
Could someone/body let me know if I am on the right track?:screwy:

Cheers
Bratmna;)

[ballaratdragons]

Bart,

Your worrying about the use of 'good' and 'well' but you can't even spell your own name :rofl:

Check how you signed off :lol:

[GeoffW1]

Ken,

That should be spelt "You're worrying......" :nerd::lol::lol:

Sorry, sorry, could not resist :rofl:

Cheers

[GeoffW1]

Bart,

Yes. That usage of "good" is just slang, or bad grammar if you like. It might be a creeping Americanism, :question: as it seems to have originated in the Andy Griffith Show.

Cheers

[bartman]

On Purpose!!!!!! Just to see if anyone would take the bait!!!:fishing:
GOTCHA!!!:P:nerd:


Sorry Geoff.... mmmm I think it might be "spelled" not spelt.... or are you doing my trick????:shrug:;)
couldn't resist either.....:hi:
Bartman

[ballaratdragons]

Spelt is English, spelled is American. :thumbsup: :rofl:

[bartman]

It just sounds bad ( heheheh - wrong). Just like the Sesame Street Cookie Monster:sadeyes: introducing the Cookie.....

Even if it is slang, what will become of G'day Mate..... Will it become " yo yo yo wazzzz suppp":question:
Bartman

[bartman]

Cheers Ken....
Did not know that...
Always trying to figure out American and English spellink

Bartman
Ps:
how does this compute?
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=HP6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:spelt&sa=X&ei=jjtdTcz6DYWosQOVz5nOCg&ved=0CBUQkAE
which doesn't show a def of the word in the context of what we r talking about
So I assume the web is Americanized:lol: ( see the zee...spell check)

[ngcles]

Hi Bartman & All,

Agree with the others it is simply poor grammar. We're all guilty of it sometimes.

Here is another example that has been particularly prevalent (and I've found particularly funny) in the media lately regarding the use of the word "evacuated" -- with respect to the natural disasters in Queensland. The ABC have been the worst offenders of all. The report or newsreader usually runs along this line:

"More than 150 people were evacuated in Ipswich today as floodwaters -- etc etc"

Well, unless someone is up there in Ipswich with a huge vacuum pump attaching it to a convenient body orafice and is sucking the contents out of these 150 people, it is in error.

It is correct to say that 150 people were evacuated from Ipswich, or to another place or, from an area etc. People aren't "evacuated" except in the sense that they are evacuated to or from -- it is the area (or volume) that is evacuated, not people! Made me titter ever time I heard it. I laughed quite a lot during that period -- must have heard it a dozen times!


Best,

Les D

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

We are in a whirlpool :lol: of grammar.

But no trick, it was quite deliberate. "Spelt" is generally the Old English form, which I like using. "Spelled" is reported as more common in America. :2thumbs:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070917021034AAxvE0r

This is evidently one of those words though where either form is acceptable really, at least in the context I used it. :thumbsup:

Cheers

[GeoffW1]

:lol::lol::lol::lol: sneaky:rofl::rofl:

[ballaratdragons]

Already has.
About 80% of the teenagers I know say 'sup' instead of G'day or how ya goin'.

:sadeyes: Even my 2 sons (15 and 18) are starting to say it too much.

[bartman]

Yo so tru.
;)
Bartman

[OICURMT]

Can you say "enema"? :P






http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sup (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sup)

Love the first definition ... :rofl:

[bartman]

When I worked at Cable Beach Club in Broome, I was told to say "G'Day" to each guest I walked past ( back in the early 90's)

Bartman

[wavelandscott]

Yes, it is a from the USA and comes from a "regional" dialect in the Southern US of A.

The Andy Griffith Show would be a a good older example but more recently Larry "The Cableguy" (voice of Tow-mater in Cars and Comedy Stylist) with his famous tag "Git R Done" would be another more recent example.

The original would actually be better represented as "Yuh done good" (along with Y'all Come Back Now, Yuh Hear; from Jed Clampett's closing of the Beverly Hillbillys show)...Yuh and Y'all are key vocabulary words of the South...


As a person who grew up speaking a variation of the "Southern Dialect" (my wife often refers to me as Gomer Pyle, another Mayberry resident) I am amazed how far it's influence is now felt.

Jus Sumpin bout Sounding Stoopid that I Reckon people find appealing ...

[Waxing_Gibbous]

"You've done good" sounds bad, but is, in fact, good.
If you are referring to a meritorious action.
If you had saved an orphanage from bankruptcy somone might well approach you and say "Bartman, You've done good". As opposed to doing bad.
However (and you are now allowed to begin sentences with "however"),
one is reffering to the quality of your actions, then "You've done well" is the approptiate plaudit. "You've done badly" or "poorly", would be the opposite.
If one mixes the former with the latter, then one is just a hillbilly. :)

[mithrandir]

Spell \Spell\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Spelled} or {Spelt}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Spelling}.] [OE. spellen, spellien, tell, relate, AS. spellian, fr. spell a saying, tale; akin to MHG. spellen to relate, Goth. spill?n.e {Spell} a tale. In sense 4 and those following, OE. spellen, perhaps originally a different word, and from or influenced by spell a splinter, from the use of a piece of wood to point to the letters in schools: cf. D. spellen to spell. Cf. {Spell} splinter.]

...
4. To tell or name in their proper order letters of, as a word; to write or print in order the letters of, esp. the proper letters; to form, as words, by correct orthography.

The word "satire" ought to be spelled with i, and not with y. --Dryden.

Either acceptable, but spelled more closely follows the root word. Also to confuse those who can not tell the difference between parts of speech:

spelt
n : hardy wheat grown mostly in Europe for livestock feed [syn: {Triticum spelta}, {Triticum aestivum spelta}]



Go Team Apostrophe Man ! :party2:

[strongmanmike]

Oh man, what about "I went and got them ones" and "You's guys" and "I done that"

I work in a warehouse and hear this everyday :rolleyes:

Mike

[gregbradley]

Yes but if you understand it and communication occurred was it an error?

Grammar and language are all about communication and is an evolving changing thing. If communication occurred then I don't see it as an error.

Otherwaze we would all still be talkin exactly like Inglish 600 years ago or more. Hehehe


Greg,

[Barrykgerdes]

Allowing new spelling of words and altered meanings is part of the general conspirancy to dumb up the population so that communication becomes more difficult. The old idea "Divide and conquer" will prevail. The same way that statistics has taken over from science.:shrug::mad2:

I am just as guilty of bad spelling as everyone else but I do blame my computer for dyslexic errors.:thumbsup:. If I press "the" and it comes out "teh" it is not my fault the computer does this.:P;):lol::lol:


Barry

[Omaroo]

I think that there is also a little Lakes District movie influence here too. Chicago gangster says to sidekick, in his strained gravelly voice... "You done good, Vinnie"

Vinnie: "Aw, thanks bwoss!"

[AdrianF]

I hear "Yo how's it hanging" all the time from the school kids. I have refused to answer anything as a greeting other than G'day or good morning when then walk into class.

Adrian

[renormalised]

This is all the "Americanisms"....trash talk....that's crept into our language over the years. Quite frankly, if the Americans want to talk like a bunch of rock apes, then that's their problem, but don't drag everyone else' language down to the lowest common denominator. Clean up your TV shows and movies.

And more should be done by parents and teachers here to keep that sort of nonsense to a minimum, if not gotten rid of altogether.

[Suzy]

There used to be a time (around 30 years ago) where the newsreaders spoke eloquently and the field reporters dressed in suits (womens incl.). From what I remember all the actors and presenters who were on Australian tv shows, were well spoken - very English. But the everyday people spoke good old Aussie slang which is now so americanised, it's pretty much drowned out the "Australia" in us.
But on another note, has anyone noticed these days, that newsreaders speak very ocker (it's gone the reverse to what I said above), and the Americans have gotten more nasally and rounded in their accents:question: I just think if you are public speaking on television, and I direct this to Julia as well, take some speech lessons and sound more professional.:shrug: (Don't respond to the latter, I don't want to get into trouble). :ashamed: I notice there are a lot of spelling errors in print as well, as most people rely on spell check these days and not their own intelligence. Spell check only checks words that are spelled correctly, it no way compensates for poor grammar (eg tire and tyre). I think it makes people lazy (myself included). I used to be a very good speller until I started on this forum and I type so fast with so much on my mind, I tend to take the lazy option for words I knew how to spell and wouldn't normally have trouble with; my mind now goes blank and I can't be bothered. Need to start re-putting my thinking cap on now I think.

Les: What you said about evacuating, is shocking! It just only re-affirms what I said above.

I fear after my generation leaves, there will be no one around to say things like ...
"She'll be right mate" or "Hooroo sheila, grap a coldie for that drongo and don't ya let the nippers have any." "Oh fair go, course I wouldn't give them nippers any and I 'aint drinking much myself otherwise I'll need a real ridgy didge loo and not some bush out woop woop because I'd look like a yobbo."

I have a thread running at the moment called "Retro Flashback", and from the many wonderful stories that have been posted, it makes it very apparent and saddening how much we've changed in such a short amount of time.

Edit: I have nothing against American talk or people, just the effect it is having on our own culture.

[PCH]

No need to go that far Mick, you can come on here and you hear it every day ;)

[PCH]

Jeepers, I can just imagine the look on our teachers' faces if we'd said that to them. It would have been six of the best for a week - if we were lucky.

In the schoolyard between equals is one thing, - but "yo, how's it hanging" to a teacher is just plain disrespectful, and is purely a result of the total lack of discipline that is allowed today. The kids can behave almost any way they choose with impunity.

[PCH]

Carl, so how's the "How to win friends and influence people" course going ? :lol:

[astroron]

I fear after my generation leaves, there will be no one around to say things like ...
"She'll be right mate" or "Hooroo sheila, grap a coldie for that drongo and don't ya let the nippers have any." "Oh fair go, course I wouldn't give them nippers any and I 'aint drinking much myself otherwise I'll need a real ridgy didge loo and not some bush out woop woop because I'd look like a yobbo."

The only time I hear this type of talk now is by truck drivers on the CB.
It is a long time since I have heard anyone with ginger hair called "Blue" and except for the odd occasion English people called Pommies except when the cricket is on;)
Yes we have lost a lot of the Aussie identity over the last forty years :sadeyes:

[renormalised]

Who said I was out to win friends...this base talk that they go on with isn't smart or even sounds good. It sounds like a whole lot of uneducated buffoons trying to make conversation and failing miserably. If they want to talk like this, then keep it in the ghetto where it came from in the first place.

[CraigS]

Language is about connectedness.

If someone choses to commence a conversation with words like: "How they hangin' ", they are attempting to connect at a level of informality. If the receiver is not prepared to connect in that manner, there are options which may be exercised, to let the transmitter know that further communication will not be possible on that basis.

Language changes. Learn the changes. Don't get stuck by not adapting to the change.

Use all of it, I say (in the appropriate situation).

The more language one is aware of, the more related, useful and able to influence others, that person will become.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers

[renormalised]

It's not particularly clever or even erudite to talk like some knuckle dragger, despite it being the "in" thing, or, "an expression of the evolving language". Some influences to language are good and give it greater degree of expression and breadth of meaning. Others do nothing more than destroy the whole lexicon and bring it down to a level of expression and meaning which is just a tad above farce and depravity. It makes a joke of the language.

It's nothing more than the language of American "angry young man" urban gang "culture"...it's indicative of the standard of education and the economic/social circumstances they find themselves in. It's not our own general cultural experience and it's not wanted.

[AstralTraveller]

Hmmmm ... this brings to mind a line from Milligan's book 'Rommel? Gunner who?'

"Captured German underwear revealed they were evacuating all along the line."

[AstralTraveller]

I assume this was to impress the oversees guests an give the place a distinct Aussie character??

[AstralTraveller]

I quite agree. I'm a member of the 'bloke' preservation society. If I ever accidently say 'guy' I severely castigate myself. :help:

I take the shuttle bus to work at uni and it is mostly full of overseas students. Nearly everyone thanks the driver as they alight but I make the point of saying 'thanks mate' or 'cheers mate'. Occasionally I get the correct Ozzie reply 'you'r right'. The students I work with also learn a bit of the lingo (and not just the swearing), not so much because I try as because it just comes out. Sometimes I get some puzzled looks. :)

[avandonk]

I have met three Nobel Prize winners in my lab. All have asked me after formal introductions to explain what we were doing and hoped to attain. The language was never over convoluted in fact it was direct and to the point. It is only cliques that promulgate an indescipherable language to hide their real aspirations from the rest of us.

Bert

[vespine]

Every generation will complain about what the next is doing: with culture, with language, with art, etc..

The test of "getting old" is when you start doing it.. Nothing personal, of course. :) There was a time when the word "cool" was considered outrageous. ;)

[GeoffW1]

Hey Bart dude,

See what you done now? :rofl::rofl:

Cheers

[ballaratdragons]

The American 'word' I hate the most is 'Hunker'.

Remember back when Hurricane Katrina happened.
Every reporter used 'Hunker' in almost every sentence.
"They were all Hunkered down. So people, Hunker down and stay safe"

Then I heard Aussie reporters starting to use it :mad2:

But I notice that during Cyclone Yasi the Aussie reporters were using the slightly more acceptable term 'Bunkered' down.
Annoying but not as bad.

Geez I hate 'Hunkered'

[AndrewJ]

Lets face it.
All the previous examples are irrelevant to life in general.
Lets get down to items that really matter,
like sport. :D
Deeeeefense, Ohhhhhhhfense
and worst of all quarterbacks in the AFL
( yes some commentators used that term )
and touchdowns in the rugby ( polite or no-neck versions )
are a travesty that just cannot be allowed

Andrew

[Omaroo]

So essentially, people are generally a little annoyed that Americans outnumber us fifteen to one, and we'd like to expect that rub-offs are less unidirectional. :lol: Mmm... probably not going to happen. :) Not sure what the problem is. As a species we're evolving, and that is at the moment largely through our own inventiveness. Communications and travel are going to tend to flatten and mix unique societal traits over our lifetime. Why is this such a bugbear for most? :question:

[renormalised]

Well, Chris, if future evolution of human culture is represented by a predominantly American cultural set, then God help us all...the last lot of people I would want to act as our emissaries to an alien world would land there and say "Hey bro, how's it hangin'" or "wassup dude" and then do all those ridiculous hand gestures they do these days (that they've picked up from rap "culture"). How inane and tribal can you get.

[PN PM]

I have an aunt who is borderline anosmic (she is losing her sense of smell). One day she overheard her daughter telling a stranger, "My mother doesn't smell good."

This is why we need poor grammar--it's hilarious.

[Omaroo]

I guess that the dissemination of cultural traits will still follow the law of averages Carl, and flow from the larger countries and cultures to the small. I'm not in favour of many of those that you've touched on either, but I don't think that our disapproval will stem the tide. Some of our own local language is also pretty rough when heard on the world stage.

[renormalised]

You're right about that....the larger cultures do tend to overwhelm the smaller ones, and you're right about our own vernacular. It can be pretty rough, but what we're mostly complaining about is this ghetto, tribal, knuckle dragging language and attitude that's come out of the US. I can imagine many over there cringe at it as well and would rather it dry up and blow away, but unfortunately it's become too ingrained into their society to rid themselves of it. At least not for several generations.

[adman]

I agree. We get taught when we are young the 'proper' way to speak, but its only 'proper' for that moment in time. Languages are fluid, and change happens rapidly, often with several major shifts within a single lifetime. There have been many instances of groups trying to stop these shifts in language, and all have been unsuccessful. Dictionarys stopped trying to be proscriptive (telling you how it should be used) and became descriptive (telling you how it is used) a while back.

There are also many rules of grammar that make no sense. Why is it inherently bad to split an infinitive ("to boldy go") but OK to split a nominative ("the red car"). there is no reason apart from 'just because thats the way its done'

[CraigS]

I .. I .. can't quite make out his name ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZJ412y81lQ&feature=related) .. I think he's a master of the pure Aussie language (and culture) we're trying to preserve here ...(and he has some views which may resonate) ...
:lol:
(Time for a bit of humour)..
:)

Cheers

[SkyViking]

Something I find very odd/amusing is when people use the word of instead of have. As in "I would of done it" instead of "I would have done it". It just doesn't make sense to me at all and I can't imagine where it originated from, but I see it written very often. Does anyone know where it comes from?

[Barrykgerdes]

It is most likely a corruption would have - would've to would of

Barry

[multiweb]

I can think of much worse people representing the rest of us... some dudes wearing green uniforms and caps and holding guns. "Hey bro, you've been shot" :P All languages evolve. From an outsider point of view I find it interesting to see all the diversity of spelling and grammar although I have trouble understanding sometime. We need some more of those cool emoticons :cool3: with hand gestures. ;)

[M54]

Yes, that's one of my pet annoyances too.
Also, little kids these days say x, y, ZEE, instead of ZED!:confused2:
Because of Sesame Street.

[ballaratdragons]

This is what we risk losing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97YnGQE1q6M

:rofl:

[M54]

:lol::lol::lol:

[bartman]

Yeah mate!



MMMMM interesting!!!!!



I'm not saying that I don't want change, and I love the fact that we are all evolving in all kinds of manner, it's just that I think we - as Aussies - might be losing some of our slang. I dont mind slang and use it all the time at the right time. It's when bad language gets used at the wrong time.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:



That's great Ken!

I understand that language is evolving.
Just keep in mind that without proper grammar or words/text in the right context can lead to confusion (see 'my mother doesn't smell good').
I guess that's what I am trying to convey. If kids are not taught to speak properly at first, then how will they be able to communicate properly in the future?
Cheers cobbers!
Bartman

ps here is another one:
"I've got nothing........."

[astroron]

That should read
"Iv'e got nothink........" (QUOTE);)

[bartman]

You are right Ron
Soz...
Jeez I hate that sms abbreviation for sorry.....
Bartman

[ballaratdragons]

Now there's a 'language' that will ruin any country's use of English.
SMS talk!

I have seen it used in the occasional forum and I think it is disgusting.
About the only one I can bare is the use of 'LOL'.

I am a member in the Mitsubishi Magna Forums and all forms of SMS abbreviations are banned.

[bartman]

There is a forum for Mitsubishi Magnas??????:eyepop:crazy:screwy:he hehe:rofl:
I'm not against shortened/ abbreviated words such as ATM, BRB, CSKLU and LOL. They all are ( cant think of the word) the first letter of each word combined to make an acronym ( ha found the word).
Soz is not such a word/acronym!
I use acronyms when I'm lazy....but see no harm in that when it is in the right context and forum/discussion.
I'm sure that this ( shortening of words by acronyms) will evolve into a whole new language or an addition to our current language.
It's an addition to our vocabulary, not a replacement.

Bartman
Ps:
One of the worst shortening of words/ names is when I found out that our Marketing MANAGER signs off on her emails as 'V' . I will not reveal her name, but just imagine if her name was Veronica ( not her name). How unprofessional is that???????

[Barrykgerdes]

I too am against the use of acronyms in forums. Principally because prior to the escalation of SMS messaging there were a number of acronyms in general use that generally obvious meanings. However the proliferation of these abrieviations rather than true acronyms has created many duplicates that have totally different meanings than the original acronym and can cause confusion.

Barry

[Kevnool]

Hey everybody-----Welcome to the future.

[DarkRevenge]

Hi all,
I haven't read all the posts, and I can't comment much as I'm not the best at english, as you might know :P
Anyway, here the situation is much worse. American influence has stolen us the "¿" symbol, so we're using only the "?" symbol at the end of a question... not only in chats or e-mail (which is wrong), but also in tv news, advertising... and even in newspaper articles.
We also use the "ñ" letter and accentuation (á, é, í...)... but I'm wondering how long this will last...

Cheers.

[CraigS]

There are cultures who have fought vehemently to preserve their language in its original form. Eg: Quebec, Canada .. and their version of French.

Thesedays, I understand that the folk from modern France, find the modern Quebecer's spoken language, quite strange. They can still communicate verbally with no problems, but there are differences arising from Quebec's French being isolated from European French, for as long as it has (in spite of France being the origin for it).

Both cultures go on fighting to preserve their changing languages (presumably from incursions as those mentioned in this thread).

I wonder what the long term outcome(s) of that defence might be ?

Cheers

[renormalised]

The Quebecois are strange, in any case:):):P:P

[bojan]

Galactic, based on Chinese :P

[renormalised]

I'll be migrating to the far side of the galaxy if that happens:):P

[Octane]

There's nothing wrong with that. It's been done for years. If you read epistolary books from the 1800s, initials for signing off are used throughout them as well.

I have signed my emails and letters and everything for years, with 'H'.

H

[multiweb]

Funny you've mentioned that. There are indeed a few places where the language as its root in French. Canada, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, parts of west indies, Mauritius, Guyana, etc... Some I understand quite well, some I don't have a clue what they're talking about. I think the lingo has evolved both in pronunciation and grammar and in some instances has totally deviated from what I'd call proper grammar. But hey, you can't be too precious about one's language. It's always evolving, merging with other languages. That's what's happening here with what you guys call 'americanisation'. :)

[multiweb]

That's because they are survivors. They're b1tchslappin' because of huge swarm of mozzies in summer and running away from hungry bears in winter. ;) :P

[CraigS]

Hi Marc;

I was actually thinking of you when I made that post .. I'm no expert in French .. great to have your input.

The linkage between culture and language is a very tight one.
Globalisation would seem to be the opposing force.

Attempting to control something which is not under one's control, would seem to be futile, eh (?)

Cheers

[multiweb]

Not so sure about that. Culture is rooted in your up-bringing. To me it defines your values, moral and the way you live, what you like, what you relate to, etc.. Language is just another mean of interaction. In my case cultural shock was massive for me when I moved from France to UK but not at all when I moved here. I use the same language but I integrated a lot better here. Then again what's not to like downunder. :thumbsup:


So true. You can't keep swimming against the current. Just enjoy the ride.

[renormalised]

Just like Daniel Boone:):):P:P

[avandonk]

I was trying to be pretentious. Sorry nobody noticed
Bert

[GeoffW1]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's because we are all so used to it :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sorry, sorry, could not resist :hi:

Cheers