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Quark
31-01-2011, 03:19 PM
Introducing my new Planetary Imaging telescope, “FRED”.
Let me say from the outset that I acknowledge the pioneering work that Anthony Wesley has done regarding the use of very thin aluminium telescope tubes and particularly his ground breaking new design for a Newtonian Reflector secondary mirror spider and mount.
“FRED” is named in honor of Fred Watson, a great science communicator and all round good bloke.


Many years ago, when I was still working on the Broken Hill Mines, I was asked to put on an astronomers breakfast at my observatory for a visiting group of astronomers that had come to the outback for National Science Week. This was my first introduction to the talents of such great science communicators as Fred Watson & David Malin. In Later years after I had finished work on the Mines, when I launched myself into Post Grad studies in astronomy with Swinburne University both Fred and David were very supportive.


“FRED” is sort of a close country cousin of Anthony’s new scope “NEMESIS”.
Felicitously, Resplendent, Exemplary, Designed, Telescope.
But then David, who thought Fred was far too common a name for a telescope suggested the following.
Delightful, Astro, Visual, Imaging, Device.


“FRED” started out on the drawing board following Anthony’s visit back in June 2010. I was just so struck by the difference in the live feed between his Nemesis with its custom optics and my trusty 17yr old Meade production optics. At that stage Nemesis had a Royce 14.5 inch primary with a 1/30th wavelength Antares secondary, all in a very light two piece aluminium tube made by Gary Mitchell in Sydney. We both had the same imaging setup and F/L but, comparing the live feed it looked like Nemesis was a 16” and my scope the 14.5”.


Using the ray trace program Newt, which Bird introduced me to, “FRED”, started to take shape, at least as a ray trace drawing on my computer. I settled on the same size primary as my old Meade, 16” F4.5 but with a 3.5” secondary that would focus my imaging train as close as possible to the scope tube.
I contacted Mark Suchting and the order was placed for my mirror blank from his American supplier 16/08/2010.
I also ordered a 3.5” 1/30th wavelength secondary from Antares Optics 19/08/2010 and contacted Gary Mitchell to make me a two piece fully baffled aluminium tube 30/08/2010.


I planned to use the 27 point primary mirror cell that I built for my original 16” in the new tube. The secondary mirror mount is based on Anthony’s most excellent design. I think that the “Wesley” secondary mirror spider & mount is probably one of the most insightful developments that has been made to improve the performance of the Newtonian telescope design in decades. The secondary mount and spider vanes become one fixed unit. The vanes pass through cut outs in the tube and slots that are in a very heavy aluminium ring that sits on Teflon strips on the outer surface of the tube. The veins are held in position with tension from compression springs. The secondary is adjusted by rotating the aluminium mounting ring and by sliding the vanes longitudinally within the slots in the mounting ring. As a slight modification to Bird’s design I am working on a different adjusting mechanism that will allow very fine longitudinal adjustments of the spider.


Gary Mitchell was great to deal with and did a very professional job on the tube. The lengths he went to in packing the tube for transport out to Broken Hill were greatly appreciated by me, the tube arriving in pristine condition 26/10/2010. It was much lighter than the Meade cardboard tube, a reduction in overall weight of about 20 kg. As the counterweights on my GEM are at double the length from the pivot point of the mount than is the centre line of the scope tube, I was also able to do away with 1 of my 10 kg counterweights. Thus giving a reduction of 30 kg overall on the mount. The thermal properties of the very thin aluminium tube are excellent and track the changes in ambient very well. I am very confident that there will be no tube currents in this scope generated by the tube itself. My new Antares 1/30th wavelength secondary arrived 06/09/2010.


Fitted a new set of primary mirror mounts that I had made to the new aluminium tube. Very carefully marked out the position for the hole to be cut for my JMI Moto Focus, measured it five times using different methods to calculate the measurement to ensure it would be in the correct position. Very accurately marked out the cut outs in the tube that the spider vanes would pass through and cut them out with my Dremel. I then fitted the Teflon strips either side of these cut outs that would allow for the whole secondary assembly to rotate enough to get the correct rotational position for the secondary mirror.

Again with the Dremel I cut the slots in the external 35mm x 5mm aluminium ring that the vanes passed though to allow for the adjustment in angulation of each vane for collimation of the secondary .

I used stainless steel 300mm rulers for spider vanes ( as Anthony had successfully done) with compression springs to tension the vanes to the mounting ring. I Also turned up seats to both locate the top and bottom of the springs with the lower unit also housing a Teflon bush. I drilled and tapped a 3/16 BSW thread into the side of this lower housing and screwed a long 3/16 thread into this that passed through the angle iron brackets discussed in the following paragraph.


When I ordered the tube from Gary I specified an extra 35mm x 5mm internal reinforcing ring to be fitted inside the tube by me later, as close as possible to the external ring that the secondary mount & spider were fixed to. To have the ability for very fine adjustment in angulation of the spider vanes. I mounted angle iron brackets that were bolted though the very thin skin of the tube wall and also though this much heavier internal reinforcing ring.


To make adjusters that could be readily adjusted by hand for the fine adjustment of the vanes I used standard 3/8 BSW bolts. I cut the thread off of them and drilled & tapped them for 3/16 BSW allowing the 3/8 hexagonal heads to become virtual thumbscrews for fine adjustment.
My new 16” F4.5 primary blank arrived in Sydney 11/11/2010.

November 1st 2010 I fitted my new Antares Optics secondary and my 17yr old Meade 16” F4.5 primary to my new aluminium tube and mounted it on the GEM in my observatory.

I was incredibly relieved to find that all of my eyepieces and PGR Flea3 focused at the heights above the tube wall that I had designed the scope to achieve. Since doing this I feel that there has been an improvement in my imaging results, due to the very high quality secondary and the most excellent thermal qualities of the aluminium tube. As my new primary will be the same, or very close to the same F/L as my original mirror it should just be a matter of changing them over when it is finished.

I look forward to having an official first light with “FRED” on Saturn when he has been fitted with a world class primary from Mark Suchting.
( This write up will be continued as this project develops)
Have attached 3 images of the aluminium tube taken by Gary Mitchell on completion in his Sydney workshop and 4 images on its arrival in Broken Hill. It was exceptionally well packaged, wrapped in layers of foam & cardboard.

Cheers
Trevor

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:22 PM
Continuing on, the arrival of my new 3.5 inch Antares 1/30th wavelength secondary with Zygo interferogram supplied.

FlashDrive
31-01-2011, 03:23 PM
That is a really nice tube :thumbsup:

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:23 PM
Painting the inside of the new tube sections.

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:26 PM
The new tube with the new Antares secondary & 17yr old Meade primary installed on the GEM in my observatory

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:32 PM
The unique front end design of Anthony Wesley's with my adaptation to achieve very fine adjustment in angulation of the secondary via moving the spider vanes.

I have used a plastic container with a screw on lid to make a protective enclosure for the secondary

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:36 PM
This new scope was designed so that the original 27 point primary mirror cell that I designed and built to replace the Meade 9 point cell would fit the new tube, this also meant that the Peltier cooler that I built for said 27 point cell would also fit the new scope.

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:48 PM
The front end of the scope with JMI MotoFocus, 5x Nagler Powermate, Orion manual filter wheel and PGR Flea3 camera.
Note that I turned up my own adapter that screws into the nose of the Flea3 and into the filter wheel, reducing the distance between the CCD chip & filters to the absolute minimum.

Note also that I have my modified 8x50 finder with ToUcam fitted, a normal 8x50 finder and Telrad all within easy reach of the focuser.

Also note the positioning of my Unibrain 800 fire repeater on the tube so that a short and light cable can be used to connect to the Flea3 rather than using the very long and heavy cable supplied by PGR,

Quark
31-01-2011, 03:56 PM
My computer hutch with FireCapture running on my laptop.

I use a camera tripod to hold the remote for my JMI Moto Focus.

Last image has FireCapture running for the Flea3 and wxAstrocapture running for my ToUcam which has a very nice red reticle overlay and is very handy when initially aligning on my target planet and if for any reason through the session I accidentally bump the scope I can quickly drive the target back using the ToUcam.

FlashDrive
31-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Can't wait to see the Pic's this will generate ....:eyepop:
Trevor..!
Let me know when you've got some. :thumbsup:

Quark
31-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Hi there Colin, have been using the scope but with my 17 yr old Meade primary since early November 2010. However "FRED" will not truly be complete until my new primary is installed. Mark Suchting is renowned for the quality of his work and I consider it a privilege to be getting a mirror from him, really dont care how long he takes to finish my mirror. When it is ready you can be assured that it will be a world class mirror, then I expect great things from "FRED".

FlashDrive
31-01-2011, 08:27 PM
Yeah...Sorry Trev' ... that's what I meant ... when the " new " Mirror is installed ... :thumbsup:

Troy
31-01-2011, 08:50 PM
Nice project Trevor. Plenty of information and pictures, a great DIY.

erick
31-01-2011, 10:38 PM
Now I know why you've been a bit quiet, Trevor. What a lovely piece of work.I hope to return to Fowlers Gap sometime this year and must say hello when I come through, if it is convenient. Would love to see that instrument up nice and close. :thumbsup:

Quark
01-02-2011, 08:30 PM
Thanks Troy.



Look forward to your visit Erick, was great to meet you down at Bendigo, I suppose thats a while ago now.

asimov
01-02-2011, 08:37 PM
Wish I had one like that Trev!:eyepop:;)

Quark
01-02-2011, 09:15 PM
Reckon if the crap weather keeps up your way, one day you may well emerge from your garage with a new monster yourself.:lol:

Very light, these aluminium tubes.;)

robz
25-02-2011, 06:56 PM
Well, I don't know what all the fuss is about?
I have just spray painted my collapsable captain's spyglass in aluminium paint and use it while wrapped in two sports ice packs for cooling and the results are outstanding!
Even water cooled my Telrad!:D

Seriously though Trevor, that is one hell of a scope!:eyepop:..............more like something from NASA.

Congratulations!....... and I hope you don't loose too much sleep waiting for Mark's super mirror.

Regards
Rob.

[1ponders]
25-02-2011, 07:47 PM
Beautiful work Trev, really stunning. I cant wait to see what you are going to turn out with the new mirror. I can imagine you are very excited. But are you sure there isn't something wrong. That tiny tiny tiny camera attached to the filterwheel couldn't possibly be turning out the great image you are achieving now. It is amazing how small they are making those things these days. How long before it going to be just a chip and an adapter and a lead??? wow

icytailmark
26-02-2011, 12:56 PM
some day i hope i can have a telescope that big in a dome. Fantastic work trevor you really know your stuff.

CarlJoseph
26-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Watching this thread with interest. Wonderful work so far Trevor.

AstroGuy
07-03-2011, 04:01 PM
Hi Trevor,

Wow!

That's a very impressive piece or work. I'm also dying to see what images that beast will capture.

You are truly a Master Astro Craftsman! :)

cfranks
08-03-2011, 08:30 AM
A really fine piece of work. What is the overall weight of the 'scope?

Charles

Quark
08-03-2011, 05:10 PM
Thanks Rob, never thought of water cooling the Telrad, pretty radical idea :lol:. The longer Mark takes to finish my mirror the more I think about just how good it will be. It will be ready when its really ready.



Thanks Paul, yep, pretty amazing just how small the Flea3 is and its sensitivity & frame rates are pretty incredible.



Thanks very much Mark, it helps a lot having an engineering background from my work on the mines. I think if you set your mind to it there is always a way to achieve what you want, good luck with it.



Thanks Carl, the next stage of development will occur when my new primary is finished.



Thanks very much Eugenio, it has worked out quite well so far being able to use FRED with the new secondary and old primary to sort out things such as the fine adjustment system that I designed to adjust the secondary. I have now had several months experience imaging with this new aluminium tube and have become quite familiar with its thermal characteristics and have been able to fine tune the running time of my Peltier cooler and the current that works best.



Thanks very much Charles, I have not weighed the new tube but it is very easy to handle and is very much lighter than the heavy cardboard tube it replaces. I easily managed to carry the aluminium tube down to my shed to work on but needed help from my son to bring the old cardboard tube down from my observatory. Meade list the weight of the optical tube as being 100 lbs. As I mentioned in my writeup at the start of this thread, I have been able to do away with a 10 kg counterweight so the aluminium tube assembly with mirrors installed is at least 20 kg lighter than previously.

toc
08-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Just out of interest, how are the images from the Meade Mirror?

Quark
08-03-2011, 06:31 PM
Hi Tim,

Have attached an RGB from March 6th UT which was the morning of March 7th local time, it along with 807nm IR data is also in my latest thread in the Planetary Imaging forum.

Regards
Trevor

toc
08-03-2011, 11:24 PM
:eyepop::lol: I cant wait until you get the new mirror :) Im also feeling better about my decision to get a Meade scope :)

AstroGuy
12-03-2011, 08:26 PM
Hi Trevor,

Superb image of Saturn! nice work!.

I hope you don't mind me picking your brains :).

Did you happen to capture any images of the same subject matter (Saturn), using the pre-upgrade secondary mirror and the same optical and hardware combination? Are there any on the this site? I would very much like to compare the two, or is it not possible?. I would also be very interested in the wave error specs of the original secondary and new secondary mirrors, if possible. :) If it's too much to ask I understand. :)


Regards...

Quark
13-03-2011, 11:45 PM
Hi Eugenio, if you have a look on my website any images of Mars, Saturn & Jupiter prior to about the end of November will be with my old setup.
Planetary imaging really is dependent on the seeing and with good seeing most well collimated and focused scopes will produce nice images but with very good optics, in good seeing the images willl be most excellent.
Cheers

Trevor

TrevorW
19-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Great work Trevor

Anil
26-03-2011, 05:15 PM
Beautiful scope !!!!!

Quark
25-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Hi All,

Its been a while but I continue to fine tune and develop "FRED".

Right now I await some sort of relief from the weather. I have not captured data since June 24th, this being the longest run of crook weather I have experienced since imaging my first electrical storm on Saturn back in Jan 2008. I should add that the last 4 weeks also included a trip to Sydney to collect my new primary mirror from Mark Suchting and that from Sydney we continued on to Parkes for the 2011 CWAS Astrofest where I had the honour of giving a presentation on "Amateur Involvement in the Science of Astronomy & The Great Saturn Storm of 2011".

I must say that I really do appreciate the exceptional standard of Marks work and I consider it an honour to now have a world class custom made primary from him.

I have included some images of and about my new primary.

Image 1. Includes the detail on the blank from Newport Glass in California.

Image 2. Is of the mirror mounted in my 27 point cell with a temperature sensor fitted to the edge of the mirror. This mirror is 2mm larger in diameter than my original and required some minor adjustment of my mirror cell.

Image 3. My new mirror mounted in my scope prior to screwing my Peltier cooler back onto the cell. A second temperature sensor can be seen mounted onto the rear of the primary.

After fitting "FRED"s new eye I was unfortunately struck down with a severe gastro bug and have yet to have first light with FRED. First light just has to be with Saturn and I hold out hope that even if the Jet, which has been parked overhead for a month, does not move, at least a hole will appear in the clouds.

Regards
Trevor

robz
25-07-2011, 04:24 PM
Trevor, ......................please....... ......please............repaint that ''Doeskin'' coloured meade mount to ''Telescope white'' or ''Skywatcher black''!!! :D:)

Quark
26-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Hi Rob,

The GEM is certainly not made by Meade or in fact bare any resemblance to anything made on a production line. It was designed and built by me a very long time ago and works very well. There is much more to it than is visible to the eye and it was painted with whatever I could find in my shed at the time.

It is fitted out with dual axis drives made by Peter Mellander of Anssen Technologies, Peter also did the electronics for the drive corrector and the whole system has been super reliable over the last 15 yrs or so.

Funnily enough, the colour of the mount doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on the quality of the data produced by the scope, at least that I have noticed thus far.;) Of course I am holding out high hopes for what this scope will produce now with the primary from Mark.

Regards
Trevor

robz
26-07-2011, 04:17 PM
Hi Trevor, fascinating mount........it looked like a Meade but as you say it's a very different beast by the way you describe it.

I was only stirring on the colour issue;).

We all await your first images with the new scope and mirror...........best of luck.:thumbsup:

Regards,
Rob.

Quark
26-07-2011, 08:56 PM
No probs at all Rob, thanks for taking the time to post your comments. :)

Cheers
Trevor

Kevnool
27-07-2011, 01:54 PM
Hi Trev long time no hear.

That is fantastic what you are doing there.
Fred sure is going hitech.
What about the old starfinder ? is it put away in a corner somewhere?
Will catch up up soon.

Cheers Kev.

Quark
28-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Hi Kev, yep, been pretty snowed under but when I lose Saturn which will be in another couple of weeks, I sure am looking forward to taking the LB out under the stars. Have a new Firey from Sydney who is really keen to go observing. Reckon we should organize the old crew and wander out somewhere for a barby & observing night.

Cheers
Trev

Kevnool
28-07-2011, 02:16 PM
Count me in !!

I think my az bearings are siezed up.... :lol:
Cant wait.

Cheers Kev.