10 or 12" Dob?

[Noidea]

Hello all, I am just about to buy a Guan Sheng Dob and I am hoping that you can give me your opinion on wether it's better for me to buy a 10" Deluxe or for $100 more buy the 12" basic? (That's what my current budget allows)

I have read the reviews and just about every post on the subject of Dob's and and after weighing up the pros and cons my choice now comes down to this final question. I am hoping that those of you who either own or have used both in your experience will tell me you opinion on wether the features of the deluxe outweigh the larger aperture.

The other quandary I find myself in is that on one hand I would like to buy the scope before Astro Camp since I will have the opportunity to ask for advice on how to use it properly. On the other hand, should I hold off until I have looked through some scopes? Considering I have never looked trough anything better than my junky eBay "Wobblemaster 2000". :confuse3:

I suppose I could look at some on Thursday night and then drive back to Andrews in Greystanes on on Friday and then drive back up.:driving: Sounds crazy I know, but so was impulsively buying a $90 Reflector from eBay. Then again, I could win the lucky door prize and have a 12" Bintel for free. LOL!

So many decisions to make, what should I do?? Any Advice will be appreciated.

[stinky]

Hi Noidea - I was/am in the same quandry as you - had prety much settled on a 10" deluxe dob and then talk of 16's popped up. That had me thinking then to start with an 8 - buy some EP's etc and later upgrade to the 16.

A visit to an almost local astronomer has me changing my mind again - discussed possibly getting into imaging and am now thinking of an 8" reflector on a motorised EQ mount.

For me the dob size is not an issue - the scope will almost certainly get parked here - we live well out in the country under dark skies.

Is portability an issue for you if not budget? Have you considered where you might go in Astronomy - visula / imaging etc?

Regards,

[Starkler]

Put simply, the crayford focuser on the deluxe is a very desirable upgrade and well worth paying extra for. Cooling fan? ho-hum you could fit one anytime and the mirror material is largely irrelevant.

P.S The 12" is a beast of a thing whilst the 10" is a bit more transport friendly and will fit in most cars.

[Striker]

Depends on portability.....I would go for aperture and get a 12" but this is starting to get into a large scope to carrying around all the time...if thats no problem go the 12".

Both are good value for money either way.

[matt]

That's exactly it. If you can handle lugging the 12 around, get the 12.

The crayford would also be a very worthwhile addition but that's something you could add-on later.

Even I managed to carry out that modification and I'm not the "handiest" bloke in the world.:)

The price difference for the deluxe 12 isn't really that enormous. Can it wait a few more weeks until you've saved a few more pennies?

The really good news is you can't lose whatever your final decision. Either scope is going to make your viewing a pleasure.

[barees63]

fwiw (from a newbie), If you have to carry the scope any distance you might consider the 10", even though I do all my observing at home I still have to carry the scope down a long narrow hallway, thru a couple of doorways, down steps and across a large expanse of lawn.. once for the base and once for the OTA, by the time I get there I'm usually pretty glad I don't have the 12" :P

Also, the GSO R&P focuser is pretty basic and I'm already finding it a source of frustration, sounds like the Crayford would be a much better choice..

[davidpretorius]

10" deluxe. my budget also stopped me from going 12" deluxe.

the extra 2" is great, but not in a std, and if you take care of your 10", then you can always sell and upgrade in a few years time!

[Noidea]

Interesting cross section of opinions and advice, thank you all for that. It's most appreciated. :2thumbs:

At this point I should mention that I drive a Mini Cooper, LOL at the thought of fitting a 12" in there. My other car is a Jeep, it will fit in there for sure but it's for sale and then it's up to the Mini for transporting. I will have to measure the space between the boot and the fold down seats and see if it's at all possible.

[Starkler]

Ouch !

Its a no brainer then, and I'd be measuring carefully to see if the 10 will fit in.
The base still takes up a lot of room. In my magna, the base has to ride in the front seat as it wont fit in the boot :doh:

Another alternative is the Saxon/skywatcher type 8 inch f5 dob. I used to own one of these and at 1000mm focal length it should fit into any car.

[Noidea]

Where there's a will there's a way! If I have to drive with it hanging out of the sunroof I will. Seriously, I had better measure it, that base concerns me now.

[astronut]

Noidea, I am about to update to a larger scope, I've decided to go to the Meade 12" deluxe truss. Main reason for this is that I will only use the scope visually. And I will be able to fit it in my Ford Laser. A fixed tube 12" would be a tight squeeze. Having said that, a friend of mine has just purchased a G.S.O. 12" dob. We viewed through it last night, the views were excellent and there was a definant difference between it and a 10" nearby.

He also has a EQ6 mount that will take the scope for astrophotgraphy, his passion. I hope this helps. Cheers, John

[stinky]

Astronut - what are you upgrading from?

[astronut]

Hi Guest, Upgrading from a Unitron 4" alt -az. Great scope, but you know what happens when you get aperture fever;) . Cheers, John

[stinky]

I bet that's gonna be great having the 12" then!

[astronut]

YEH, YEH, YEH, YEH!!!!!:nerd: :nerd: :P :P

[rumples riot]

Agreed, the 12 is a pretty large scope, the 10 may suit you better. However, I think you may be on the right track and go and have a look first, there will be a lot of dobs there and I am sure you will get a good look through a lot of them.

[Noidea]

Yes, I think it makes good sense to check them out physically and see them in action before I decide. Then again, I could win the lucky door prize and score a 12" :prey:

[Mikezoom]

Noidea,

How did you go with your decision mate?

Did you get to visit Lockstock and look through any scopes or just go ahead and buy one cause it was all you could think of when you slept, ate, worked, played? :help3: I am going through the same motions atm wondering if I can hold out for the 12" when I could have the 10" much earlier so any info, help would be welcome. :prey:

Mike.B. :juggle:

[cjmarsh81]

Yes Noidea, spill what did you get/do???

Mikezoom/Noidea. I see you are looking at a Dob and thought I would put in my two cents. I have the 10" Skywatcher Dob and prefer it over the GSO's and Bintels. This is because it has the tension control knob on the side instead of the spring setup. I don't know what I would do without it. If the scope is too tight or loose I simply rotate the handle. With the GSO's I understand the springs stretch after time and then a mod or replacement spring is needed (I am probably going to get abused now by all the GSO owners out there). I didn't even think about this when I got my Dob, but looking back am glad I went for the Skywatcher.

Also with 10" and up they come with Pyrex glass which you aren't supposed to need a fan for cooling. I don't have one and it only takes a couple minutes for the image to clear up after I set up the scope.

They don't have the crayford focuser though, which is starting to be a pain.

Just my two cents worth

Chris

[janoskiss]

The springs work okay, and they do not fatigue over time. I put heavy duty keyrings on the ends of mine, so I can have a lower tension setting for each spring as well. Pyrex mirror is a plus if you are lazy and/or impatient. If cost was not an issue I would go pyrex and ditch the fan+battery+wiring to keep it nice and simple.

[mickoking]

The springs on the GS Dobs are great. I can alternate between a 27mm Panoptic and 7.5 mm Plossl and not worry about balance.

[Noidea]

Hello All, sorry for the late reply, I didn't realise this thread was still going. Thanks for all the advice and comments.

I bought the 10" GSO dob one day before Lostock. I actually assembled it for the first time up there. Boy was I fresh at Lostock. Unsure on what I was doing but people were so helpful and I learnt heaps. :confused:

The only downside is, that after first light in Lostock, viewing in Sydney looks quite ordinary. I am thinking of going to Kulnura in search of darker skys. Cheers Paul ;)

[Starkler]

I find that springs and tension controls are all counterproductive to being able to track objects at high power. It can also be frustrating to have a light push to move direction in altitude, then having to push much harder to move it in the other.

The ideal is to have matched friction in both azimuth and altitude axis and what I found helps a lot is to properly balance the ota so it will stay put without any friction aids. I use flat lead divers weights strapped onto the rear end of the tube, and a large speak magnet on the front end.

If I leave the magnet there, the ota is well balanced for light eyepieces, and if I want to use the 31mm nagler (which weighs 1kg), I remove the magnet.

[Mikezoom]

:scared:WTF............????? An EP weighs 1kg????

I now have enough for a 10" Premium GSO Dob from Bintel but would like some encouragment to buy the 12" (only 2 weeks more savings) Dob. Please help me.

Mike.B.

[jackenau]

Hi Mike.B.

Just had a quick read through the thread. I gathered you are unsure as to whether to go with 10" dob or 12" dob. I had that same problem over a year ago. I suppose it depends on your location, whether or not you want to transport it to other sites, your means of transportation (size of scope comes into play here), viewing expectations, abilty to physically handle (move the scope around).
At the time, I just wanted to see as much as I could and as clear as I could and was really unsure as to what I could view.(From the many posts on the forum, I settled on a dob, based on price, expected viewing of objects and in my opinion "if I was not happy with it, I would be able to readilly off-load it to someone else").

Viewing this forum has been of great assistance in pointing me in the right direction as to what to look for as well as expectation of what it is going to look like when I view it. (I think too many people over expect what they are going to view). Just an observation though.

I have the 12" basic model, and at the time went for the best bang for bucks ideaology. I can't say that I am dissapointed at all (apart from the fact they came down in price shortly after my purchase, but that will happen with anything). No fan, no crayford focusser.

Balancing has never been a problem, and I do have a 35mm Panoptic which is quite beefy and a couple of smaller Naglers, as well as the 2" gso's which are equally heavy. I rarely have the springs on the sides connected at all and this seldom has caused a problem with balancing, if so I just have to quickly hook up one, or both of the springs. Moreso I do not hook up the springs as they sometimes creak and I don't want to annoy the neighbours, (they complain about hearing strange noises in the night).

So, if you are going to use it in your own backyard, not going to transport it around too much (not that this is a real issue if you are fit and you have suitable sized vehicle), and am after views based on "you want to see as much as you can for the best $$$" go for the biggest aperture you can afford.

I suppose it all comes down to what you can afford and what you expect/want to see.

Nothing wrong with the 8" or 10" dobs though.

Sure there are other scopes, apart from the dobs, but value for $$ and aperture, the dob has got to be a good option.

Just my two cents worth.

Ken M

[Mikezoom]

Many thanks Ken, :)

Well I have made up my mind on which scope I will purchase, I think it was more of a case of I can go the 10" and have it NOW or wait a few more weeks and get the 12"..... You know what they say about Idle EPs..... :wink2:

Lastly was the matter of deciding on which business to deal with and I have read other peoples thoughts and have made up my mind based on what I believe is right for me.;)

Thanks for your help and will keep you in the know of how many days till I can get my 12" er..... :cool:

Mike.B.

[cjmarsh81]

Yes Ken you are right Dob's are the best value and biggest aperture for the money compared to EQ mounted scopes etc. But you can always take your Dob off the mount and buy an EQ mount later on (which I plan on doing in a couple years).

[ving]

too right cj, i bought a 8" dob, then chris gave me his old EQ... I can mount on both now :)

[dhumpie]

I guess you have to weight out the pros and cons. Although aperture is king, I went for the 10" GS dob as I knew I could easily handle the weight of this scope, plus it would fit in my smallish Hyundai Excel for those dark sky jaunts. No point in getting something to bulky that you only use it once or twice a year :) But if you are not moving it much (i.e. if you live in a very good location), the 12" would be the better option.

Darren

[Mikezoom]

Well if all goes to plan I should be ordering my 12" Premium Dob next week...:prey::cool:. Will let you know how I go.

Mike.B. ;)

[Mikezoom]

Well...... tried to order my Dob today but there is no one answering the phones, I rang from midday till around 5 mins ago, even sent a fax and email but no response. :( I will try again tomorrow otherwise I will go somewhere else. Hope this is not just the start of service I will receive. :(

Mike.B.

[ving]

bintel mike? they do get rather busy...

[vespine]

I've been reading these forums for a while and found this thread which is exactly what I'm going through right now...

I have not been able to find anywhere how much these things weigh, if it's not too much trouble can somone please post what the 10" and 12" tip the scales at?

Also, does anyone with a station wagon own the 12"? How easy is it to transport?

The more I think about it the more I think i'll get the 12". The way people talk about seeing color and detail in the 12" makes the price difference quite insignificant imho. Still, I'd really like to see a 12" one and pick it up before buying it but I'm in melb and I haven't seen a place that has them. I've been to astro optical in St Kilda but they're asking heaps more then Andrew's and they don't have a 12 in stock.

Also, what's the concensus about the eye pieces? Seems like everyone is saying not to bother with the 4 crappy plossls, so get a barlow and a 9 and a 30 or? What do people think?

Ok, last question, how would using a 32mm 2" EP with the 2x barlow compare to a standard 15mm plossl?

[Adrian-H]

i had the same choice i went with the 12" basicly cause it was only 100$ more and i didnt want the craford cause you can replace it with even better focuser's and i didnt want the fan cause i want to get a heating system.

[xstream]

Vespine, seeing you live in Melbourne I'd go to Bintel in Camberwell and check out the 12" there.

http://www.bintel.com.au/

[vespine]

I didn't know bintel opened in melb! Great, so it looks like they have the 12" for $998 or $1099 for the premium.

So the question is: IS the bintel the same quality as the GSO? Are they made by the same mob? Inc shipping from sydney it would be just about the same price to get the bintel localy. Oh, and looks like the bintel comes with GSO plossls which I'm guessing is a plus right?

[Starkler]

THe Bintel dob is the GSO dob with a bintel sticker on it.

[janoskiss]

Bintel Dobs are GSO Dobs. The big plus in buying from Bintel is that you are buying from people who are knowledgable and experienced amateur astronomers. Roger has been in the game for decades (from since he was a toddler I think) and seems to know the ins and outs of just about every Newtonian and Dobsonian ever made. But all the people I've dealt with in that shop are a very helpful bunch. Really, I have seen nothing like it in any other type of business. So expect great service even after the deal is done and money has exchanged hands. (I have no affiliation with Bintel but they are the place for Dobs in Melbourne.)

The set of eyepieces you get with the 12" Dob cover a good range of well chosen magnifications. GSO plossls are budget eyepieces but they do the job well and they certainly are the best value in their price range. A 2x barlow will complete the Bintel 12" eyepiece kit nicely giving even more power for those nights of good seeing.

[Wombat_In_Space]

I own a 1997 Daewoo nubira wagon and my 12" GSO fits in fine, it is a perfect fit in the 30% split rear seat and the base fits in lying down on its side next to the Dob, if you have kids in the back as well it might be a bit of a tight squeeze.
The 12" tube weighs 25kg approx.

[vespine]

So bintel have dropped the price of their 12" dob.... to $949.00, how is a newb supposed to resist!?!

I was looking through the crappy wobble monster last night again and found orion's nebula and some other 'things' around corina, and Saturn is only setting earlier and earlier, I stayed up WAY past my bed time enthralled by the faintest little smudges, the thought of seeing a little more is almost embarrassingly exciting...

I mean I hear all you guys, I really appreciate the advice, I am TRYING heeding your wise words:





I KNOW you are right, but seriously! I think someone has it in for me and my thousand dollars, it's like the whole universe is conspiring against me!! I'll be surprised if I make it through the weekend without caving in and driving one of those babies, errr, I mean "dobs" home :lol:


;)

[AstroJunk]

Don't. It was meant to be ...

[chunkylad]

Hi Vespine

You will find the specs of GSO Dobs here:
http://www.telescope-service.com/dobsonians/dobsonians/dobsoniansstart.html#gso

FWIW: My 12" GSO Dob usually travels, fully assembled, in my Mitsubish van. I have transported it in the same manner as Wombat I.S., that is, in my wife's Mazda 4wd wagon with the OTA laid between the 60/40 split rear seats, and the rocker box in the back.

I move it around the house, again fully assembled, with the aid of a $20 trolley. No lifting or grunting, no probs.:D

Hope this helps your decision to buy a 12" dob, that is..................:P

Dave W

[vespine]

Damn, I went to Bintel after work and they still have $1099 on the 12"... I asked and he said he thinks it's a mistake made by their head office in Sydney and they won't be dropping the price very soon. He also said he wouldn't trade the EPs for upgrades :( but tried to convince me they were quite suitable... Oh well, looks like i'll wait! Oh, and holy cow, seeing a Meade 2" 40mm ultra wide for the 1st time was something!! :lol:

[janoskiss]

I think you'll find Melbourne is always lagging the Sydney shop as far as updates on prices / new products are concerned.

I thought they might not go for the EP upgrade. Those EPs must be worth very little to them. But the plossls are indeed suitable. Not sure about the FMC Kellner though. Try and swap it for a GSO 32mm Plossl (they should be worth about the same, maybe they even come out on top).

[Whangdoodle]

The prices are not correct for the 10" and 12" Dobs at Bintel. There was a mistake. The scopes have a BK7 mirror, crayford focuser, mirror fan and I think most even have a set of 1.25" planetary filters. There is the FMC Kellner variety and 2 of the GSO Plossls. Maybe the 32mm Plossl can be substituted but just make sure you say Whangdoodle said it was OK.

[ausastronomer]

Phone Bintel in Sydney and see what they can do. As to the eyepieces being suitable. Not IMO, the 2 1.25" plossls are fair (thats being generous) and the 2" 32mm GSO FMC Kellner is absolute garbage in an F5 scope (and thats being even more generous). Someone with cataracts could even tell the 2" 32mm Kellner had SEVERE astigmatism and field curvature in an F5 scope from 50% off axis. Its not a bad eyepiece in an F10 and slower scope but that's not what they're selling and you're buying in this case.

CS-John B

[vespine]

Hmm, price on the website is back to $1099 too now... Looks like it may have been a mistake, I swear it said $949 this morning..

[Whangdoodle]

I dont remember my local camera shop allowing me to swap my 4mm Huygunian and 3X Barlow when I bought my first 60mm Tasco :rofl::rofl:

[Adrian-H]

meade stuff isnt really my thing but sure i still think they have great stuff, guess i just dont agree with the prices =p