Bahahahha! Fools!

[Davi5678]

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/sci-tech/astrological-storm-after-suggestion-zodiac-signs-are-wrong-20110115-19rob.html

[Ric]

That's a classic. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ballaratdragons]

hahahaha, yeah, Saw this story on USA FoxNews.
They had an Astrologer in trying to explain it and they all believed her and made out that the Scientists are crackpots trying to spoil everyones faith in their Astrologers!

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[barx1963]

The ability of people to be st***pid will never fail to amaze us. I tried to explain to someone that there are (at the moment) 13 signs of the Zodiac as the elliptic currently passes through good ol' Ophiuchus, she had no idea what I was talking, yet will happily base life decisions on "the stars". I couldn't understand how she could decide something like that without at least having an idea about what the Zodiac or the elliptic actually is!!

[Rob_K]

This ignorant mumbo-jumbo astrology is so annoying. Lucky I'm a peace-loving Aquarian or I'd really blow my top.

Cheers -

[Rob_K]

On a serious note, our club did some public viewing sessions at Mt Buffalo National Park as part of Parks Victoria's summer program this year. On the first night, the delegated ranger introduced us to the participants as the Bright Astrology Club. Prior to the third night, a different ranger rang me to confirm arrangements and said how good it was that our astrology club was doing this. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Cheers -

[jjjnettie]

Don't get me started.......

[Liz]

:lol::lol:

[cfranks]

Many years ago ago at a party, I was trying to impress an attractive lady, she asked about hobbies and I told her I was an amateur astronomer. "Ooooo, what's your sign?" she asked. I left while I could! :screwy:

Charles

[Matt Wastell]

My close friends always talk about my 'astrology' hobby - they know it fires me up!

[astroron]

When I was the president of the Sunshine Coast Astronomical Society (SCAS) I would get phone calls for the Sunshine Coast Astrological Society (SCAS) yes Identical monikers :screwy:
Cheers

[Nortilus]

oh the fun you could of had with that ron :)

[avandonk]

When I got my first astro program that could show any part of the sky from any place on Earth at any date (+- 4k years). I used to show friends where the Sun was on the date and time of their birth from where they were born. They were quite concerned that the Sun was in the wrong constellation. The first question was should I be reading another horrorscope?

I blame the early astronomers who told the wealthy kings emperors etc that if they were financed to build observatories they can then fortell the future. Some of us would stoop this low to get a new shiny thing. I know I would!

Bert

[rat156]

Hmmm...

Although I also see the very funny side of this, I wonder if it's not a breach of the TOS for IIS?

We aren't allowed to discuss religion, I see no difference between Astrology and religion, so where for art thou moderators?

If I pointed out the obvious scientific errors in the Bible, Qu'oran etc. would you all be having a laugh about it?

Either it's open slather on poeple's beliefs or it's not, you can't pick and choose just because we are an astronomy based forum.

Cheers
Stuart

[avandonk]

Astrology is based on fortelling the future by the positions of planets etc in the sky. They get the positions wrong then they are deluded! Religions are based on a sky 'god' that sends rules through the 'priests'.

Both are laughably open to criticism.

We are not laughing as this is serious ignorance,

Bert

[telemarker]

Amen to that Bert. :P

[leon]

The things people actually believe, it never fails to amuse me.

Leon

[that_guy]

I was quite mad when I saw an astrology book listed under Science in a local book shop... if i wasnt in a rush, i woulda complained right up!

[strongmanmike]

That's actually a pretty good point Stu....

[astroron]

Stuart where is it stated or excepted that Astrology is a religion:question:

If I said I believed in the FLAT EARTH can people not discuss this or even ridicule it, Your post is Correctness gone mad:shrug:
Cheers

[avandonk]

Alright then since we have reached agreement.

My guidescope has a pink pussycat inside it. From now on if my scope fails to guide it is because you non believing people have failed to believe in my pink pussycat.

If any of you atheists dare tell me my beliefs are irrational then my pink pusycat stops guiding!

This is my true belief and is just as valid as all the other beliefs so there!

Bert

[mill]

Ok everyone, Astronomy is a religion to me then (NOT).
All jokes aside, if we start to call Astrology "religion" then we can start calling everything religion and close down a lot of forums :hi:

[rat156]

Why? The study of planetary movements is science is it not? The interpretation of the results may seem to be unscientific, but do you KNOW that it's not correct? Apparently the universe is about 79% dark energy, of the remaining 21%, 16.8% is dark matter, that leaves 4.2% of the mass-energy of the universe that is detectable, or 95.8% that we have no idea about.

Yes, according to our current scientific understanding of the universe we cannot see any correlation between astrological projections and science, the outcomes of astrological projections have been tested and have essentially failed, but that is no reason to claim that it is "unscientific".

Remember that as science progresses many a firmly held scientific fact comes under question, Newtonian physics is not quite correct, quantum mechanics is also not quite right, most people don't understand that space and time are the same thing. Who knows what effects the movement of the planets has on us, I know that I feel happier when I see Jupiter high and bright in the sky, though that probably just means I'm looking forward to getting the scope out. I have a similar feeling when in away from home and I see familiar sights in the sky, when I don't have my scope, so perhaps there is some connection between the stars and planets and human nature?

Cheers
Stuart

[rat156]

Hi Ron,

Never said that astrology was a religion, I said that I couldn't see the difference between the two.

The point was that if it's OK to poke fun at someones beliefs, then it's OK, so I should be able to poke fun at someone's religion (as this is a belief), or Bert's Pink Pussycat guider (Bert, you should upgrade to the Pink Panther, it's much more reliable and resistant to lack of faith). If you ban people discussing faith (i.e. religion) then it has to apply to all faiths, not just the popular ones.

It's also not about being PC, it's about the thing I hate the most, hypocrisy. That, without doubt, should be banned and exposed at ALL times.

Cheers
Stuart

[strongmanmike]

Lets test Stuarts theory

1) All Christians are fools becasue they believe in a miracle virgin birth and that the Universe was made in a week.

2) All Astrologers are fools because they believe our personalities and actions are determined by the location of objects in the heavens

Which of these statements would be moderated...?

Mike
just interested :P

[mill]

Mike you do know it is el numero uno that will be moderated :P

[mill]

Oops the universe was made in a nanosecond or less (as told to us by some people who think they know but didn't prove it yet positively :lol: ).

I see it like this: science is like religion, lots of theories and guessing but no concrete proof.
And with science i mean the astronomy science (you all know what i mean :P ).

If i say something or suggest something different about say dark matter or the speed of light i get jumped on real quick (ask xelasnave, he knows all too well :( ).
So science is a religion in a certain way :eyepop:
Now the moderaters can lock or delete this thread or let it die out :)

[avandonk]

My honest current belief is we are all in control of our destiny within the limits of our environment. We are not doomed to any sort of failure predetermined by things beyond our control.

To put any sort of credence in charletan drivel is beyond contempt.

You have the final say in where you go and what you do. Not some conjured pathetic superstition that passes for wisdom.

Any entity that says otherwise is just a glorified con man out for his own profit!


There is a big difference between science and religion. Science demands testable evidence, religion makes up it's own untestable dogma.





Bert

[FlashDrive]

I was told by my parents that I was born under a " sign " which said....
" KEEP OFF THE GRASS " .......:D

[rat156]

Prepare to be jumped upon...

Science is NOTHING like religion in many important ways, to name but a few...
Science proposes a theory, it does not guess, theories are based on observations, a theory is a possible solution to a set of observations. Theories can never be proven, but can be disproven. Theories can be tested, if the experiment fits the theory, then the theory gains acceptance, until a better description comes along or the theory is disproven.

As such science is always prepared to admit it's got it wrong, religions never do.

Cheers
Stuart

[strongmanmike]

Jesus Christ, Allah and Amen to that, hallelujah and shalom... :doh:...Large Hadron Collider..:question:

OK that's enough.....:hi:

[avandonk]

I personally think these beliefs are allegorical. Only a dimwit would take them literally.

Bert

Sounds plausible to me! Eccles

[mill]

As i see it a theory is a guess.
Look at it like this: A guess can be wrong or right untill it is proven.
A theory is also a guess but with a lot of calculations to make it look true.
Did anyone proof the big bang theory, string theory, dark matter?
Religions will also admit they can be wrong if they would only look at it in depth themselfs (the only problem is that they wont because of no peer reviews :) ).
However other religions will dismiss other religons as untrue, but that will not stop any religion from keeping believing.
A lot of people have the need to believe in something and so they turn to a religion.
So i say believe and let believe but dont have blind faith in everything said.
That is my own opinion and maybe not yours but i stand by it.

PS a theory can be proven.

Martin.

[jjjnettie]

Back to astrology though. Which is what the thread is about.
Some of my best friends partake of the stuff.
I find it very hard to bite my tongue at times.
But if that's what floats their boat, well, I hope it makes them happy.
Just don't try to push it down my throat.

[avandonk]

Mill next time you get on a 747 which was designed by a guess think of all the flights that ended in tragedy.

bert

[snowyskiesau]

Agreed.
I used to share a house with someone who wouldn't start their day without reading their horoscope. I often used to read the horoscope to her from the paper - never the one that applied for her birthday, just any at random. She used to go to work happy.

Aren't I a a stinker? ;)

[rat156]

Name one.

Cheers
Stuart

[NeilW]

My local newsagent always puts S&T magazines next to the astrology mags, despite my protests...:shrug:

[mill]

And other aeroplanes :(

[OICURMT]

I have problems with the astrological community... can't tell you how many times I've stated that Astronomy is my hobby only to have someone tell me "Their Sign"... I immediately ask them for their birthday knowing I can probably confound and confuse them into a panic...

Since I'm not into any of this garbage, I carry this in my wallet for those special occasions. I love it when I meet an Ophiuchan... :)


Capricorn : Jan. 20 – Feb. 16
Aquarius : Feb. 16 – March 11
Pisces : March 11- April 18
Aries : April 18- May 13
Taurus : May 13- June 21
Gemini : June 21- July 20
Cancer : July 20- Aug. 10
Leo : Aug. 10- Sept. 16
Virgo : Sept. 16- Oct. 30
Libra : Oct. 30- Nov. 23
Scorpio : Nov. 23- Nov. 29
Ophiuchus : Nov. 29- Dec. 17
Sagittarius : Dec. 17- Jan. 20
Sometimes someone will notices that a Scorpio has only an 7 day window, making them a rare breed. On those occasions, I'll strike up a conversation about Astronomy and constellation boundaries (hoping to convert them ;))

I usually leave them after stating that I'm a Zymurgist... :rofl:

[astroron]

Thanks I must print that out :thumbsup:

[Rob_K]

Thanks for nothing OICURMT, now I'm a boring Capricorn... :mad2: :( At least now I know why my horoscope never worked! ;) :lol:

Cheers -

[pgc hunter]

lol I'm only 1 day away from being a capricorn. Looks like both my parents are now Aries.

[OICURMT]

Too bad you aren't Ophiuchus, then you'll never have to read your horoscope again (as no paper I know of prints one for this "Zodiac") and you can get down to serious Astronomy... :P

[astroron]

I am an Ophiuchon:thumbsup:

[that_guy]

Your newsagency has S&T?!

[ballaratdragons]

To save confusion by the twits, rather than saying you are an amateur astronomer just say you are a 'Telescoper', or 'into telescopes'. ;)

[Barrykgerdes]

I don't care what the soothsayers say. I am an Australian
"Born and Bred".

The one thing that I "forecast" from the amount of silly topics and posts on the forum is that seeing must be quite poor and no one is out looking at the stars.

Barry

[mill]

Stuart you know as well as me that once a theory is proven, it becomes a fact :shrug:

[rat156]

Name one...

Cheers
Stuart

[rat156]

Mike I have an answer.

I started another thread with the title some thing like "Top 100 Stupid (insert name of religion here) quotes" and a link to a website. Much the same as this thread was started. It was removed within minutes.

So it seems that there is a hierachy of beliefs which it is not OK to belittle, I have asked Mike for a clarification as to which beliefs we may not poke fun at. As yet I haven't received an answer.

Many of you may wonder why I'm defending a belief that I obviously don't believe in myself, well, I deplore double standards. I hate that established religion is held in such regard so as to make it immune from debate or critisism.

Cheers
Stuart

[mithrandir]

That sounds like a rhetorical question.

Or is it suggesting that seeing is better a mere 10 Km west of here? If I had a solar telescope it might be different. For weeks, sunset and cloud and/or moon rise have coincided, except when it has been 24 hour cloud.



Stuart, in my experience of people's behaviour, belief and facts have nothing to do with each other.

Andrew

[dugnsuz]

Today, Astrology is just a bit of nincompoopery!!
Religion on the other hand can still get you killed.

Moderate the latter, ridicule the former!

[Barrykgerdes]

Since I closed down my observatory I do all my star gazing on the computer. I just had a look over your way. Sky's clear and the Suns out so better get yourself a solar scope;).
In any case I saw the moon last night.

In answer to some of the other drivel.
Some people make a lot of money out of astrology
and
Some people make a lot of money out of religion
but
There is not much money made out of astronomy. Even those profiteers mentioned in other posts.

Who's to say they are wrong if they achieve their objects

Barry

[xelasnave]

So much has to do with accepting personal responsibility.
Many folk can not accept that perhaps they control their destiny.
My moods are unfortunately causes by me and not the "fact" that I was born under a particular star sign... I must and do accept what is on my plate is because of my actions...and such a view helps when analyzing a relationship break up because you can adjust your behavior rather than abdicating responsibility to things beyond your control.

Someone once pointed out to me that my views on gravity were morospophic...(this is where you grasp at any detail in support of your belief) and although they were not correct in my case:rolleyes: I can see how this could apply to others;):rolleyes:

Remember never lose the ability to laugh at yourself:D.

However morosophic behavior is evident everywhere ... from big bangers to astrologers.

All one can do is listen to others and not burr up if what they believe does not fit your Universe. But when they abdicate personal responsibility I feel that is a cop out and they alone are the losers.

Anyways it looks as though I am in for a good week my tarot card reader mate told me so:D

alex:):):)

[mill]

Ok Stuart i will then "All of them are true or a fact in the scientific world".

This is a definition of the word theory.

Theory: A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers.

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

[NeilW]

I should have said AS&T (Australian Sky & Telescope).

[Peter Ward]

PT Barnum (or Barnum & Bailey's Circus ) summed it (while not specifically refering to Astrology, he did despise "humbugs" in general ) up pretty well about 150 years ago:

"We've got a little something for everyone..." and

"there's a sucker born every minute"

[barx1963]

As I understand it "facts" from a science point of view are verifiable statements about the world/universe. For example "water molecules consist of 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom" or "gravity is always attractive" or "the distance from the earth to the moon is x kms".

A theory is a model or an approximation of the world/universe that makes useful predictions. It is falsifiable in the sense that if a new fact emerges that cannot be explained by the existing theory, the theory needs to be changed or even discarded. Notice that a model is only ever regarded as an approximation, while it may often be startling accurate, it can still be regarded as applicable in a limited set of circumstances. Hence Newtons theories on motion and gravitation breakdown once speeds close to that of light come into play, but work with amazing precision at other speeds. Relativity breaks down at the extreme microscopic scale where quantum effects occur, but at the large scale is incredibly useful and accurate.

Scientists take sets of "facts" to construct models, which have explanatory and predictive power, but because these models are only ever approximations and are falsifiable, I don't think you can give them the status of facts.

Malcolm

[GeoffW1]

I know your avatar is :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I just tried to kill it again :fight:

[TrevorW]

Maybe we should not discuss politics,sex,religion, astrology,science, or anything remotely relating to astronomy

Respect each other and each others beliefs even though they may differ from yours

In closing

"I pray to you know who and I read my stars but I still haven't won lotto, so fu,,,, them both I'm getting drunk at least I know with certainty I'll have a hangover tommorow"

[mill]

Certainty is not possible with hangovers :P

[iceman]

I have deleted a few recent posts out of this and moved the thread back to General Chat.

Please be civil. And remember to use the 'report post' button to complain about something, not the 'new thread' button.

[iceman]

Religion and Astrology are nothing alike.

As Doug and Mike have pointed out, religion can get you killed! Discussions (!) on religion get very heated and people get very offended.

A (mostly) harmless thread on astrology would likely have been over by now if you hadn't been injecting it with discussions about/comparisons to threads on religion.

If you don't like what people are saying about astrology, the mocking of those people that believe in it etc, then say so in the thread. Why try to bring religion into it to try and make some point?

It's been proven time and time again why religion should not be discussed on IceInSpace.

[rat156]

Your opinion only, fairly obviously not mine.



So my offence at the post doesn't matter?



So I'm not allowed to have an opinion that differs to the moderators? I should ignore what is plainly disrespectful behaviour? Just because you find something humorous doesn't mean that it's not disrespectful, otherwise racist jokes would be OK (which I presume that they're not).



I HAVE brought this up in the thread, I merely used religion as an analogy that most people would understand. Clearly they did, and got upset by my posting about the analogy, something which has escaped you as well I see. Perhaps I should have used racism as an analogy that people would understand, though many of the forum would not have been subjected to racism, so may not fully get the point.

To quote your own TOS...

Many of the posters have said that they know someone who reads their Horoscope, I think undeniably a large portion of the population have some belief in Astrology, so how can you allow something on the forum that openly disrespects them, whilst disallowing anything to do with...

This is the point I was trying to make in the other thread (the reason I started that thread was that the topic had drifted far away from the original, I have been admonished for that before too, so I started a new thread). It's also the thing that upset Mohammed (who I contacted by PM to clear things up), for which I'm sorry, but he, like everyone else, should respect my opinion, however misguided it seems to them.

If I am to respect one person's beliefs then I will respect all people's beliefs.

This is probably my last posting on this or any other topic on IIS, you have lost me (I know many of you will say "don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out") if you allow this to continue. There are many other astronomy based forums, some even Aussie based.

Regards
Stuart

[taxman]

Gotta say, I sort of agree with Stuart.

I am still smarting from a thread late last year where I challenged casual racials slurs about overseas tech help operators was thinly diguised as a discussusion on technical ability or knowlege and was jumped on by the the "cool clique" for being hysterical and politically correct. Nothing was done despite the fact numerous posters were clearly violating the TOS.

I still visit, but my views on the community and the "tight moderation" is somewhat jaundiced now. IIf there are going to be rules, they need to apply to everyone regardless of personal relationships formed between members.

Besides, really, who is to say astrology does not work for those that believe? There are those that believe whole-heartedly in eastern medicine that are regularly cured and there are devoutly religious people who make great sacrifices for the good of their community in the name of their deity that they would not otherwise do.

Political correctness is a term that has been twisted to mean the very opposite of what it is: a philosophy to stop those with non-mainstream beliefs from feeling unnecessarily marginalised. It is not a tool of the "thought police", but a tool that frees us all if used properly.

The tl;dr version:


Enforce the rules for everyone, even your friends
Don't be a dick when you disagree with someone

:D

[erick]

It's like hearing a bit of noise, opening the door and finding a gigantic pie fight going on inside! Do I walk in....... nope, shut the door and wait.

Maybe we can have this much excitement about more astronomy topics? :)

[supernova1965]

The theory of Flight and the theory of Gravity. There are two for you

[marki]

Crikey.....:question::confused2:


Mark

[Jen]

:lol: lol i got that question on the weekend too :screwy::screwy:

[snowyskiesau]

Miss out on being in the middle of a pie fight? What's the matter with you?:D
As long as I don't have to clean up afterwards ...

[jjjnettie]

Everyone should clean up their bit of mess before they leave the room.

[AstralTraveller]

Were you trying to impress an attractive lady too??? :P No problem if you were, I just want to get my facts straight. :D

[AstralTraveller]

Now have I got this right?? Stuart is the one on the left?? :lol:

[jjjnettie]

QNews is looking for a new astrologer to take over from Madam Zelda.
Here's your chance to make a buck from it. ( believe me, they don't pay much LOL )
Conditions apply.

[Barrykgerdes]

No good to me. My concience won't let me tell lies even if the pay was good.:shrug:

Barry:lol::lol:

[Jen]

:rofl::rofl: it was a female actually :rolleyes:

[Paul Haese]

There are so many mis-statements made in this thread and each is made by people who ought to know better. Just to name a few.

Not all Christians are described as believing the Earth was created in seven days. There are many schools of thought within the Christian community and within theology. Generalisations should be left to the unthinking.

Religion is the organisational aspect of a belief structure. For instance Catholicism is a religion of Christianity. The label of Religion has nothing to do with belief. So using the broad brush of religion is bound to attract some criticism.

There was a time in which criticism of Astrology would get you killed. It was seen as a form of religion (I mean system of belief) long before any person here was born and is if examined is still a religion (I mean system of belief) of sorts. Everything revolves around belief. It should be excluded from the TOS really. However, since the TOS are monitored by humans there is always an element of hypocracy in the application of such.

Astrology has many element of science (either suedo or minor parts) incorporated into it; albeit never been my cup of tea personally. It did give rise to astronomy in ancient times and without astrology astronomy would have taken longer to come into being. Be critical all you like of astrology but again blanket statements are not useful.

There are many theories that have been proven. Two examples are 1) the theory of relativity (gravity bends light) which was initially proven in 1910 during a total solar eclipse. Subsequent tests have during recent satellite missions have also shown relativity to be correct too.
2) Planetary motion - probes to the planets have proven this. Without that theory we could not have landed on planets or indeed landed on a moon of a planet during the Cassini mission.

No one is in control of anything. Some of the non believer types here have made statements that they are in control of their own destiny etc. Only an infantile meglomanic actually thinks they are in control of anything at all. There are so many factors involved in your own existence it is impossible to be in control of anything. Having control of something is just a veneer of reality. You have elements of control but you are all at the mercy of others actions.

I think an old testiment phrase is useful here. Those without sin should cast the first stone. My meaning is that use your facts correctly in the argument and think before you write. Someone has left the site as a result of this thread, it ought not to have taken place. Astronomy was once for the thinking person. I often now wonder if that is still the case! Respond as you like. :)

[sjastro]

Scientific theories are never proven. At best empirical data can support a theory or disprove it (in other words the theory is falsifiable).

If physics theory is "proven" then it is a theorem.

For example General Relativity is a theory, Birkhoff's theorem on the other hand which is derived from General Relativity can be proven.

Regards

Steven

[Davi5678]

Can of worms! As the OP this was never my intention. However, I'd like to make a couple of points.
1. People have too much time on their hands. Consider for a moment how brief your life is in an astronomical time frame and the ask yourself is is worthwhile arguing on the internet about anything.
2. My personal stance will always be for free speech over political correctness. Your welcome to believe whatever you want, but be prepared to hold your beliefs up to scrutiny and even ridicule.