consumer advice required - andrews communications

[kitsuna]

Hi all.

I'm looking to buy my first scope in the not too distant future. Obviously a big step.

I've been looking around the web and talking to my local dealers. From what I've seen, andrewscom has probably the cheapest price I've seen for what I'm interested in.

while I was checking their site, I found that in most cases, they seem to offer cheaper prices. Sometimes huge differences compared to competitors (I've seen $1100 differences for the same setup in some cases).

I realise that it makes good business to undercut the competition wherever possible, but I do have to say, I wonder if this is a case of "too good to be true."

I'd asked my local scope dealer to quote me a price on a dob. They quoted me a figure, and I asked if they could match andrewscom. They couldn't.

What followed was a rather... passionate speech by the dealer which put into question andrewscomm quality of products/service/validity. I'd rather not say what was said, for fear of breaking a forum rule. however I will say that the vendor suggested that andrewscom may not be an authorised dealer for many products (meade, skywatcher, celestron etc) and that by purchasing from them, the manufacturer may not honor any warranty because they aren't an authorised dealer. *I am not personally making such an accusation.* I only bring it up because, if true, that would significantly affect my decision to purchase from that source.

I fully recognise vendor bias when I see it, and as a result, have taken everything said with a hefty pinch of salt. however, I do wonder if there is a kernel of truth under all the chaff of bias.

I am lucky enough in that I have a friend that has dealt with andrewscom before. however, this was several years ago, and not for a telescope. They have also not had cause to test a manufacturer warranty. With that in mind, I'm trying to find some unbiased information about andrews comm.

So, what I'm really asking is if any users here have had personal dealings with andrewscomm. how would you describe the service, quality of products ordered. In particular, have you ever had cause to use the manufacturer warranty for a scope bought from andrews?

(I am aware that andrewscom offer their own extended warranty, and that is fine. However, I ask about the manufacturer warranty because if the worst happened and andrews shut up shop, I can't rely on their own store warranty).

Hearsay and rumor is not really what I'm after, because that's what got me into this position in the first place.

Any input (good or bad) would be helpful.

Thanks all! :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Adam,

your seller is pulling your leg.
Andrews is well respected by the Astro community for his products and warranties.
Many times I've heard of Lee Andrews even hand delivering items on his way home from work.
I have never had a problem dealing with him over the last 6 years.
I find him honest and punctual with his deliveries.
If anything is damaged in freight he immediately replaces it.

His prices are lower because he doesn't unpack every individual item and test it.
The orders come in from overseas and he dispatches them.
He doesn't have a tech sitting there setting every scope up before it leaves the shop.

But in almost all cases scopes don't need much setting up (if any) by the dealer.

If you can grab a bargain from Andrewscom, then grab it.


Oh, and yes, he is an authorised dealer of his products.

[kitsuna]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'd skimmed a few other threads on the forums here, and I've seen it mentioned that a few scopes have been bought from andrews. That's a good sign in and of itself. I hadn't seen any specific comments about the company though. :)

As I said, I did take what my local said with a grain of salt, but I'm naturally paranoid, especially since I'd be buying over the 'net from a source a long way away. :)

[ballaratdragons]

Adam, also mention to Andrewscom that you heard about them in the Online Astronomy Forums.
That way a dealer knows that if you don't get good service it is likely to be posted in a Forum :rofl:

We gotta keep them all honest ;)

But if you feel you can't trust Lee Andrews there is also Bintel and MyAstroShop.
Both are also trusted dealers.

[barx1963]

Adam
I have dealt with Andrews on a couple of occasions and have had no problems, main item purchased was 12" dob. Service was fine, items were delivered as poromised. Before I bought I rang to ask a question and they got me the answer very quickly so from that side of things no problems. I will also say that the exact same level of service has been provided by very astro shop I have dealt with in Australia, so small markets certainly make for keen service!
On the warranty issue, I didn't even look at or query that with Andrews as I know about the first thing I was going to do with my scope was mod it anyways, so would probably void the warranty with week of it being delivered. :P
Malcolm

[kitsuna]

all good input. Thanks a lot guys. :)

[leon]

I will not go into any detail here, but I disagree Ken.

Leon

[ballaratdragons]

Which bit specifically, Leon?
It can only be this line - "Andrews is well respected by the Astro community for his products and warranties." because all the rest of the comments in my post are from MY experience with him, and you can't 'disagree' with my own opinions and experience :lol:
As well as my own excellent dealings with him I have only ever heard 1 complaint about him in 6 years.

Or unless you mean that he does actually check and test every single item that leaves his store. If he does I was unaware of it.

Or unless you mean that Bintel and MyAstroShop really aren't trusted dealers.

Go 'into it' because Adam may need to know.
That is his question - "Any input (good or bad) would be helpful" at the end of his post.
Otherwise your post is useless and helps no-one which isn't fair to Adam. He asked for help.

[OzRob]

I have bought a few things from them with the main thing being my FLT110 and may bits a pieces that went with it. I couldn't fault the service and in fact he went a little extra due to some technical difficulties out of his control.

[leon]

That may be so Ken but I can't really bag a company on this site, because what i had to say would not be very nice. :sadeyes:

To make it short, after a purchase from him some time ago which was faulty i might add, i was an idiot in their eyes, :mad2: with a rude letter to boot, :mad2:that's all I'm saying on the subject.

Leon :thumbsup:

[kitsuna]

As a general rule, I'm getting pretty good feedback, which is encouraging. If you've got an alternate opinion, I'd be glad to know all about it. Feel free to PM me if you feel more comfortable with that. :)

[ballaratdragons]

That says enough. That is YOUR experience which is all Adam wanted to know. :)

Geez, chill Leon. You can't disagree with my own views, but you can have your own :thumbsup:

[casstony]

To the best of my Knowledge Andrews is not an authorised dealer for some product lines including Celestron - but this is not necessarily a bad thing. Australian Celestron pricing dropped some months back in response (I imagine) to competition from Andrews, who I think has their own independent source for Celestron products. So Andrews could be viewed as the good guys bringing competition to monopolistic Celestron pricing in Australia.

Andrews and Bintel are the two main rivals; I've purchased from both shops and had good service from both. I've also been happy with Sirius Optics and Star Optics.

I haven't purchased from www.theastroguy.com.au (http://www.theastroguy.com.au) but they're worth checking for prices too.

I'd recommend that you purchase locally if the price is just a little more - the convenience of being able to return to the shop for warranty service or advice is worth a hundred bucks or so.

[kitsuna]

True tony. A local vendor is a boon if something goes wrong. If it were only 100 it woudn't matter. For 300 though...

[ballaratdragons]

Adam,
If you want local, as far as I know, the dealer in South Australia that is worth checking out is 'Telescopes and Astronomy'.

South Australians will be able to help you better, but it's the only one I've ever heard of in South Australia that South Australians talk about.

May be worth a try for a quote. :shrug:

http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/

[h0ughy]

thanks Guys for your valued advice - thank you for keeping it cordial

[ballaratdragons]

That's cool David :thumbsup:
but Adam isn't after cordial, he is after Astro goodies :P

[kitsuna]

If I'm offered cordial with my scope, that vendor gets my business.:P

[Visionoz]

Should have no problems dealing with AndrewsComm - had good experiences with both lenses and accessories - and I got immediate replacement when the "wrong" item was delivered and was even offered return postage too - yes Lee has a way with running his business and his business model sometimes irk others but it's all in favor of the customers/consumers :thumbsup: - I know that the same tactics he employs has also made pricings for amateur radio gears go down!! or to put it another way; kept others honest!!

HTH
Cheers
Bill

[mithrandir]

The only time I had any problems getting something from Andrews was when they didn't have the item in stock, and the US source didn't include it in the expected shipment. It arrived a week or so later by air, rather than waiting for the next container.

Apart from that, the service has been fine. The one item returned for a warranty claim was sent by Lee (or maybe it was Luke) to the only people in Au with the skills and parts. Something the "official" importer could not match in those days.

Bintel tends to be the other shop that gets my money, and they have run into the same issue with the US not sending stock when expected.

If you actually go into either of those shops and they aren't busy, they can talk your leg off.

Andrew

[Jeeps]

Purchased my scope from Star Optics and a few items from Andrews. No problems. I had a faulty red dot finder that i mailed back to Andrews and another was sent out so they were fine to deal with.

cheers

[kitsuna]

good to know. :)

[BlackWidow]

I live in Adelaide and purchased my first scope from Telescopes and Astronomy in Adelaide. He is the only place in Adelaide worth the title of a Telescope retailer. I have also purchased from Bintel with great service and support with items that I could not get support direct from the manufacture. I have some parts about to arrive from Andrews and find them to have Great prices, support and best of all they are very fast to act on my order. Most items arrive in Adelaide the next day. I have had problems with choosing the wrong part and they were happy to exchange without and question.. As with all suppliers you will always find somone who has not bben happy with thier service, however if you work on ave you will find these two dealers are very well respected and you can't go wrong.. I won't go into detail about the other dealers here in Adelaide, other than in my mind they no longer exist.


Seeing Stars
Mardy

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

Andrews has low overheads, and they do cut margins as much as possible it would appear.

Their shop is so different to Bintel's, in Sydney, it is like chalk and cheese. Andrews' retail shopfront is a tiny little place, you would miss it if you blinked, and it is packed to the ceiling with cartons and gear everywhere. They are knowledgable tho ;). I went to Andrews to buy a AZ3 mount, and amid mutterings of "think it's here somewhere", boxes were brought tumbling down from on high. Voila, a new-in-the-box AZ3 :D.

Bintel's in Glebe here is in a new building, neat as a pin, not a carton in sight, with rows of high-spec scopes set up in a display window. No particular point to make about it, just a different business model.

As to warranties, after purchase here in NSW your first legal recourse is always with the retailer, to whom you gave the money. As I commented to another member, if there are problems you have the option as to whether you get refund, replacement, or repair, for the advertised time period, be it a year or whatever. Strictly speaking, you need not ever contact the manufacturer.

In reality, people often do, for various reasons, but in the case of Andrews, the average position seems to be that they do stand by and honour warranties. The word would get around so quickly if they did not, in this specialised market, they would be damaged. It is just that, as others have said, they will often be sending you on a manufacturer's carton unopened by them.

Cheers

[kitsuna]

As a fellow Adelaidian, Adelaidite? :shrug: I do find it difficult to find a reputable dealer. I'm glad you've had generally good experience with interstate dealers. It's reassuring.

I'd also much like to hear about your experiences with Telescopes and Astronomy and the other local 'dealers' as it's good to know what's going on in my own backyard. I'd appreciate a PM if you feel more comfortable with that. As I'm trying to get a full rounded picture of what is out there, you can be assured that anything said would be in confidence. :)

Also; thanks to Geoff for your input. It's nice to have word from someone who's been into the actual retailer for both Bintel and Andrews. A nice contrast.

[snowyskiesau]

I've also dealt with both Andrews and Bintel, no problems with either company. I bought a binocular mount from Bintel that was missing one of the counterweights. I picked up a replacement from the store, no questions asked.

I've bought a few items from Telescopes and Astronomy also without a problem. The only compliant I would have about T&A is that damn website! :)

[mithrandir]

A bit off topic, but if you think T&A's web site is bad with Windows, you should try it with Linux. Unreadable.

[snowyskiesau]

Only use Linux, never tried it with Windows. :)

[kitsuna]

linux user here as well. Challenging, certainly. Probably why they're in the telescope business, not the web design business. :P

[mental4astro]

I've only had good experiences with Andrews, and Bintel. Both have also shown extraordinary patience with me, :thanx: !

I've only corresponded through emails with Telescopes & Astronomy. They know their stuff though.

In South Australia, you can also try the Astronomy and Electronics Centre - there is a link to their site in the right-hand margin on this page advertising Takahashi. I've delt with Claude over the last 15 years. Good fellow. The ONLY problem has come from when he's on holidays at the end of the year. But, hey, I don't have a problem with that either. Would you like a call from work on your break? Claude too has been patient with me, :) .

[kitsuna]

this has all been great advice. I'm very greatful for all the information that has been given to me.

I'm also quite glad that some people have been able to identify a few SA based dealers as well (as I hadn't found either of them!) and that definitely gives me other sources I can tap if I decide to stay within SA.

Thanks all, and keep it coming if you've got it! :thumbsup:

[Darth Wader]

Hi Adam,

I'd highly recommend www.theastroguy.com.au. I bought a 12" dob from theastroguy (Shane Ross, who is also a member of this site, IIRC) about nine months ago and his service and pricing was second to none. He beat the next best price by more than $100 and shipping to my door was free. Definitely worth a look - any saving can be invested in eyepiece upgrades! I should mention that I'm not affiliated in any way, just extremely happy with my experience.

Good luck with the scope purchase. The best advice I can give you is get as many prices as possible and research as much as you can. I looked for a few months before committing to the dob, and I haven't look back.:D

Cheers
Wade

[dannat]

the telescope & astronomy website is trying -but now i know my way around -have purchased all my last few access from matthew as his prices were really god & he sent me something on xmas eve eve express so i had it xmas eve. grea service. i have also always had great service from bintel -bought a few access off them.
andrews is usually cheapest: out of dozen purchases had 3 issues -one ep they would not change due to my change of mind (fair enough -but i hadn't used it), one pair binos sent out which were the wrong size, & lastly some ep's/diagonal which wouldn't reach focus in a little scope. not bi issues but just letting you know
As you are in SA telescope & astronomy would be my choice -though aec are having a bit of a sale

[joshhagger]

Hi Adam,

I can also recommend Telescopes & Astronomy. Bought my scope from there last year, Matthew's service is fantastic, he's eager to please & has an answer to any question you may have. As Daniel said the website leaves a little to be desired, but nothing a quick email wouldn't fix.

[steve000]

My experiance with andrews has been great.. they provide honest cheap prices. I would imagine a local store only telling you different to spook you into buying from them instead. andrews are good. I base this on my single purchase from a $2600 12" scope.

[AG Hybrid]

Just bought a 12" collapsable dob from Andrews this morning. He had to go get it from storage - personally. They sell Telrads now too.!

[Keshdogga]

Hey there Adam,

Reading your posts it seems that you're very into local buying, understandably, but my advice is don't let it concern you. I live in Mapleton on the Sunshine coast (SE QLD) which surprisingly doesn't have alot of, if any, retailers that I know of nearby. I've had to buy all my gear from Bintel, MyAstroShop and Fellow IIS members (All have been excelent to deal with) over the internet and any problems I've had have been resolved in a maximum of 3 days. So from my experience, although not as long as most ISSers, I can say don't let locality be an issue when buying a scope.

On the Andrews issue though, I've been refered to them many, many times when going through the buying process. Although I've never bought from them myself, they have a very reliable and credible reputation that I, personally, don't think should be under estimated.

Good luck :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[kitsuna]

Thanks again everybody for their input. It's been quite useful. :thumbsup:

[M110]

I bought a skywatcher dob from Andrews just before christmas because of the $50 freight cost was so good. Another seller quoted me Sydney to Hobart $165. A very big saving. It arrived in exactly one week and all in good order. No problem at all.

[dhumpie]

Andrew's is totally legit and having bought a great number of items from him, I say go with him. BinTel is great too...

Daz

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: Sad , but I would personally still buy a celestron off Andrews and save $100's if not $1000's , licenced celestron dealers have to sell their product at the prices dictated by Celestron and we all know its a rip off here when you look what other ( USA ) countries pay for their gear !!!:mad2: .

On the warrenty thingy Celestron aint the best to deal with anyway as they don't want to know us down here below the equator at the best they wont answer any corrispondence from us anyway .

All we get is the old chestnut ,,," Send it back " you try sending say a CGE14 back to the USA from here or NZ , almost cheeper to buy a new one , I know this personally as my old club in NZ ( Northland astro society ) had no end of problems with a brand new GGE14's mount and they refused to allow us to send only the mount back , send the WHOLE!!! scope back to the USA or we wont deal with it .....
,,, In the end it was cheaper for us to buy a brand new 'Losmandy Titan' from Bintel for the OTA ,,, YEA ??? great after sales service alright after spending over 10K from a licenced Celestron dealer .
ps. that dog of the mount is now sitting in a store room gathering dust !

You GO!! Andrews , I am and will continue to be a loyal customer , ( same with Bintel ) .
Brian.
{removed quote}

[manny]

No problems with Andrews

[mithrandir]

I've returned one item to Andrews under warranty. They shipped it to Brisbane to be fixed and it came back better than new.

If companies like Celestron didn't fix dealer prices in Oz/NZ well above US prices we wouldn't need grey market importers.

[Rastas]

{removed quote}

You should has started your post with the disclaimer " As a supplier/retailer....." which would explain most of your post.
As a consumer I have purchased a few scopes from Andrewscom and never had a problem with their service or honesty. One scope that I purchased had astigmatism and a turned out edge which was replaced within a week at their expense with all shipping. They stood by their product.
They may not test each product but if the is a fault, they replace - no question asked.

[glend]

I have had no problems with Andrews at all, and have bought two scopes from them in the last year and had one warranty claim. Don't get me started on The Astro Shop, who I won't ever buy from again.

[OzStarGazer]

I just bought a Celestron product from a US authorized dealer the other day. It was about 1/3 of the "discounted" price here.

Why do prices go up so much here??? I mean, it is not a difference of 20%. It is a difference of about 300%.

PS: The gave me a 30-day "personal" warranty. If you buy a Celestron item from the US, the warranty is void because it is only valid in the USA and in Canada, but it is just a filter, so if it is fine when it arrives and I handle it with care I hope it will be fine also in the future.

[OICURMT]

This has been discussed many many times... on various threads... and has been analyzed to death, with no one agreeing on what is the appropriate margin for each stage of delivering products and services into Australia.

Your analysis in searching for your own answer to Australian pricing dilema starts here (http://www.sheldonandhammond.com.au/) ;)

OIC!

[cometcatcher]

Andrews have always treated me well whether buying radios or telescopes.

[linstar88]

Hi all
I called Andrews just before xmas to confirm if they had an item I needed in store and also to confirm that they would be open till their stated closing time. The answer to both questions was "yes". After driving for over 1 hour to get there in sweltering heat, not to mention the ridicules traffic to contend with, I arrived at least 25mins before their stated closing time. Low and behold they had closed early :mad2:. I wont be giving them any business in the future as this really "ticked me off".
My apologies for posting a negative reply, but I think it's only fair to warm others who may be travelling over an hours distance to get there, even if your early, they might be closed earlier.
Heads up Guy.

[brian nordstrom]

:question: merry Christmas to you as well Mr Schrudge , I think the boys deserved an early Knock off to miss the traffixckx.,:D
Did you get what you were aftewr ? for Christmas ? mm Hope so. :hi:m from a distance ....
Brian.

[linstar88]

Ho Ho Ho, how did I end up stooping so low....
Well perhaps the boys at Andrews deserved an early knock off, and I can't fault anyone trying to beat the traffic (God knows I would have liked to as well). Yet that info would have been far more beneficial and all to easy for the woman I spoke with to relay over the phone when I asked just less than 2 hours before heading there.
So what I got for xmas from Andrews;
- $20 fuel bill.
-pamphlet for anger management classes from innocent bystanders (I should probably use that already :lol:).
- attitude that equates to waiting till Hell freezes over before heading back to Greystanes from the Northern beaches again.
I guess some may consider this priceless, but in reality it's rather costly. I finally got my much needed laser collimator from Astro Optics Supplies at Artarmon (great service and very helpful advice), after xmas!. Then spent well over $1000 at Bintel (top shelf store, service and advice) on accessories to play with, which at this point appears to be an ongoing exercise lasting for eternity :rolleyes:. All this equals huge wads of hard earned money Andrews will never see :P.
If I seem harsh here it's because I know after running a small family business for almost 20 years, had I even once told a customer one thing, then turned around and did the complete opposite (especially within the space of only a few hours), regardless of what day of the year it was, I'd expect to loose income on a grand scale.
The golden rule of running a successful small business is understanding everyone is a potential customer. More often than not the seemingly most unlikely people are the ones that spend up big.
:hi: back standing on the shoulders of giants.
Cheers Guy :thumbsup:

ps; no hard feelings, just business.

[ianB]

Like some I find the telescope - astronomy web site difficult to navigate, does my head in.
But the guy seems very helpful and knows what he is talking about, I had a chat to him the other week, I was going to buy a certain ep then he talked about the ones he makes and they sound good, so I purchased one ( 6.5mm ) and said I will try it out and see if it is as good as he says, if it isnI will buy more, it should arrive Tue or Wed.

I just went to the web site to look at the ep again butmI can not find the section I want, it can be very confusing.

[DJT]

My first scope was from Andrews, a gift from my wife. My second scope and mount was also from Andrews and they really looked after me. no issue with customer service.
What irked me though was when they stopped opening at the weekend. Sometimes you really just need to talk to someone about "stuff", having that conversation, are you buying the right thing, etc

I can't get to greystanes during the week so my business moved to Bintel. I know most of us buy online, take advice from forums etc, but sometimes...

Am a local, am sure you wil be fine online (to the op) Andrews was excellent..they just need to reconsider weekends for local custom.

[Harb]

I am the same.....Sat trading and 5.30 closing time means a lot to me as well.........I recon I spend more money in the 5 to 5.30 gap that anytime else other than Sat mornings.