Export Rejection - the very first time it happened

[h0ughy]

well I have been officially told to sod off from a US based company. now note that they are the only ones that make the item!!! here is their reply:

David,



Due to the ever-increasing complexity of U.S. Export regulations, McMaster-Carr has decided to only accept orders from a few, long-established customers of ours overseas. We will not provide a quote nor will we accept your orders. We regret any inconvenience this causes you.



Kathy Anderson






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dhough
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:26 PM
To: la.sales@correspondence.mcmaster.co m
Subject: Your message to McMaster-Carr

While on our web site you wrote us a note:

I would like a quote to get 3 x 8476A24 (Same as 8476A43) High-Torque Round-Nose SS Spring Plunger 10-32 Thrd, 1.3-2.7# End Force, w/o Lock Element and 3 locking nylon nuts to suit in SS shipped to Australia this is what i will be using them for http://www.eclipsus.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=56

Requested By

David Hough
How hard can this get????? we are only talking about 20 dollars worth of gear and the postage would have been probably the same (the usual "current" costs).

[astronut]

Very strange, David!!!
I thought the U.S economy was doing it very tough!! and that they would happily accept monies from anywhere.:screwy::screwy:

[Barrykgerdes]

Sounds more like the cost of processing the order would far exceed the return. Try ordering 1000 of each part and I bet they will supply.

Barry

[h0ughy]

i would have thought the same :question:

[h0ughy]

at 5 dollars a pop i dont think so :eyepop:- i could get the SS nylon nuts here but the bolts are a unique item:screwy:

[koputai]

I used to buy from McMaster-Carr, but got that same reply a few years ago. It's a bummer as their range is fantastic.

Your options are to find it from another source (M-M aren't manufacturers, just resellers) or have someone in the US buy it for you.

Cheers,
Jason.

[h0ughy]

I am beginning to think the latter might be my only option?:shrug:

i didnt realise that they are just resellers?:thanx:

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi David

Is the part you need that round nose plunger in the link you supplied. It could probably made from a standard suitable screw that can be purchased locally as you say you can already get the SS lock nuts.

I have 2 10-32 SS lock nuts and some long 10-32 SS screws in the come in handy box

Barry

[wasyoungonce]

I tried them long ago and got the same response.

It's such a shame as the availability of a large range imperial parts is scarce in Australia.

You need to use a buying service such as priceUSA which adds $ to your buy...It makes it all too hard.:shrug:

[hotspur]

That's disappointing.

We really are on the back foot in Australia,when it comes to buying hard to get items,that are just not available in this country.

And when we can get stuff from U.S the postage is rather high.

Try the option mentioned-getting a friend etc in U.S to try and buy the item,

I recently looked at buying some products from U.S/Canada,the postage was very high for what are small items,that weight very little.Fortunately,I spoke with owner,and was given a 15% discount on the order.

So,it always pays to get some dialogue going-5 minutes of 'chit-chat' usually gets a positive conversion.

Good luck.

[gary]

Hi David,

Firstly, Happy New Year.

This is certainly not something that is new or unusual.

At the heart of the problem will be what is known as the "Wassenaar Arrangement on
Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies".

This is a an agreement between 40 member nation states to try and prevent some items
falling into the hands of a list of some other countries. The "other countries"
read as a "Who's Who" of the usual suspects.

Anecdotally, these type of controls have existed throughout my own professional
engineering career and before that, dating back to the early days of the Cold War.

Over the years I have been required to routinely sign US Export Control
Restriction agreements and for example, this is quite common in the semiconductor
industry. There has been a renewed recent flurry of these in the past few months alone.

The McMaster Carr policy probably has its origins going back to 2003, when it
was fined by the US Department of Commerce for failing to report eight sales
to various Middle Eastern states.
See http://www.bis.doc.gov/news/2003/mcmaster_carr.htm

It can be tough, as some specific hardware can be difficult to source in Australia.

[snowyskiesau]

I often get tools/hardware from the US for my machining hobby and occassionally I had a similar response or sometimes just a blanket refusal to ship out side the US.

Strangely, I've never had this problem with any electronics supplies such as Digikey or Mouser. I would have thought semiconductors to be more militarily sensitive that nuts and bolts :)

[joe_smith]

have you thought about a forwarding company, something like http://www.shipito.com/ for example.

[h0ughy]

trying to source it locally (queensland company - :lol: suppose thats local) they are having to import from the same place anyway to get them:question:. i will see what price they come back with :shrug: - else might ask a lucky USA resident:thumbsup:;) if they can order - then resend to me ;)

[h0ughy]

that fills in a lot Gary - but i did post to them that use that these were going to be used for - didnt hide that. But since when is Australia the Middle eastern Country with full terrorist watch.....? A weapon of mass photo destruction could be construed to be in the wrong hands i suppose:rofl:

[gary]

Hi David,

I saw where you mentioned its end-use and in the agreements we routinely are
required to sign the "end-use" is a question you have to fill out. But the real
bottom line is that without a signed legally binding Export Restriction agreement,
often also requiring the Company Seal to be affixed, many U.S. companies will
not export.

So sometimes being a company rather than an individual can be more helpful,
but you still have to, at the end of the day, sign a legally binding agreement.

When we sign them here, we are agreeing not to use the goods in certain ways
(for example, incorporating them into weapons) and not to re-export them or
the products they are in to the list of banned countries.

Apart from the list of banned countries, there is also a long watch list of denied
postal addresses. When you read the list, it might have an entry such as
military research institute in China or it can be something as inconspicuous
as a private postal address of someone in an apartment in somewhere like,
for example, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, Johannesburg or London where the
resident has acted as a front man to export it to a banned country.

So one would also need to be careful when asking friends to do a favour.

Even residing in a Wassenaar Arrangement member state does not
guarantee that you can receive goods without signing an Export Agreement
and then having that agreement scrutinized by the security division of the US
Department of Commerce. At the US Department of Commerce web site, one
can search and read about each individual case where an individual or
company has been caught and fined. Some of them make for interesting reading
and some have been for seemingly innocuous parts such as stainless steel
components that were on-shipped supposedly for alleged use in an enrichment plant.


It can certainly be a real nuisance for honest and legitimate end-users such as yourself.

Good luck with the search! :thumbsup:

[h0ughy]

well i just getting up off the floor - i got a reply back from a nut and bolt distributor - they can get it but here is the cost

a US $5 dollar part has now become $17.20 and to get all three sent to me is going to cost $15.00 - thats $73.66 with GST, that make it $24.55 each roughly? no way!!!!!!

this is mad :mad2: :mad2:, frustraiting and ......

[el_draco]

Reason is simple... Like me, they could not work out what you were asking for and were too embarrassed to say so :lol:

[astroron]

Hi Dave, like you I am staggered:eyepop:
this thread goes hand in hand with the thread on the GST
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=673647#post673647
And they wonder why we shop over seas :screwy:
Cheers

[wavelandscott]

Gary,

I'm glad you posted this detailed explanation as I was going to make a rather less detailed reference to the above. Exporting out of the US is not particularly easy anymore for companies of any size. The "Compliance" regime to confirm that the Wassenaar Arrangement on
Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies (I love to write it out in full) along with some other legislation is being followed can be quite a hurdle to shipping many items. Especially lower value or small quantity items...as you noted not only must you ensure the person or entity is not "on the list" but also that they will not reship them.

Responsible Care auditors (and other auditors too) love to look through your process and evidence of your use of the process to ensure you are meeting the standard.

Just to add some balance...bringing stuff into the US is not so easy either...there is a whole other set of rules to conform to.

Cheers All!

[M110]

Even with the English pound being stronger the the aussie $, I find that UK post rates very cheap. Have look around ebay for an identical item in the US and the UK, postage rates are about half the cost of US post.