And you thought you had bad debt

[ballaratdragons]

The USA is financially 'up the creek' and we keep hearing about how they are 14 Trillion in debt.
So I went looking for the official 'Live' US National Debt clock and found it.

:eyepop: Look how fast their debt goes up!

U.S. National Debt: 14 Trillion and climbing fast! (Top Left numbers)

You will notice the debt climbs at a rate of $100,000 every 3 seconds.

Please DO NOT turn this into a political thread.
I only post this so you can see how fast their debt is rising.
Keep ALL political comments to yourself.

U.S. National Debt Clock (real time): http://www.usdebtclock.org/

EDIT: look at the U.S. Total Debt! (see it at about centre of the whole clock)
55 Trillion! :eyepop:

[ballaratdragons]

U.S debt is climbing at $100,000 every 3 seconds!
Australia's debt is climbing at $1000 every 2 seconds.

Australia's Debt Clock: http://www.debtclock.com.au/

[Octane]

Ken,

Although, it may be a bit out there, you might want to see Zeitgeist: Addendum (part two of Zeitgeist) to see how bad the financial system is.

It's quite depressing.

H

[mozzie]

wow ken both time clocks are amazing!!!!!
i to don't want to get political but the american clock and dept how do they slow it down and start to pay back the loan... it just looks out of control???

[AdrianF]

Whats frightening is there was 1.6M bankruptcies and 15M unemployed.

Adrian

[casstony]

And I'm pretty sure NASA's not responsible for that - it's time we devoted a few extra minutes worth to the good guys. (Is that a political comment? - at least it's on topic :) )

[supernova1965]

Queensland,SA and Tas are decreasing their debt interesting. Sorry I just noticed that SA is rising again. Thats if I have read the Aussie debt clock properly

[supernova1965]

I didn't have to do anything I just clicked on the link and it was there:confused2:

[AdrianF]

I didnt see the second post with Australia link.:o

Adrian

[Ric]

Blimey that's amazing and scary.

How do you even start to slow down a rising debt like that let alone reverse it.

[joe_smith]

I agree its a real eye opener, you can also watch it on you tube :thumbsup:

[el_draco]

1/ Interesting how the pollies have one rule for themselves an another for the rest of us. We save, they spend. :screwy:
2/ Nauseating that this is our money they are spending :mad2:
3/ Get ready for the crunch... Its gonna hurt :(
4/ I'm going bush next year, and we'll be off the grid more or less within a couple of years. :thumbsup:

[casstony]

For a change I don't think this is a case of different rules for different classes; I think the govt's genuinely believe they are getting the correct advice from the current crop of economists, the advice being that you can perpetually avoid economic downturns with more borrowing. This method allows the natural downside of the business cycle to be avoided for a time but eventually the debt becomes overwhelming and we get depression/war rather than a series of recessions. That's the way I see it anyway.

[ballaratdragons]

Thankyou all for your intelligent treatment of this thread.
No Political agendas mentioned anywhere :thumbsup:

H, I am half way through that video. Thanks for mentioning it. Going to watch the other half later tonight after I finish checking out the sky while it's clear for a change.
:)

[Jules76]

I must admit I don't follow finances/politics much but I'm honestly suprised that a state like WA is increasing in debt. I just figured with all the mineral resources they have and not such a huge population compared to the bigger eastern states that they would of faired better. :confused2:

Good to see my home state (SA) leading the charge and making money. :thumbsup:

[el_draco]

Politicians and Economists.... They are those sad individuals who believe that the only way to exist and be happy on this planet is to continually grow, population, consumption infrastructure... yadda yadda. We ought to shove a few, (all?), of them in orbit to enlighten them to the fact that there is a limit. :screwy:

Part of me is debating whether there should be some kind of life support system involved....:D

[Alchemy]

Doesn't work on the iPad , probably some file required to run that won't,

That's the global economy, someone else is therefore making a profit. Probably china, the oil states.

[Kal]

I think debt per GDP is a more reliable metric to assess, and on that list the UK, France, Canada, Italy and Japan are all worse off than the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_ debt

[Kal]

Actually I am suprised myself at how high Japans debt per GDP is on that list (2nd, behind only Zimbabwe! :eyepop: )

[RB]

Hi Clive,

The reason it doesn't work on the iPad is because the site uses Adobe Flash and iPads/iPods don't support it.

[wavelandscott]

That is an interesting measure but then look at how much of that debt is financed in country and waht is held by "others"...In the case of Japan while the debt is large per GDP almost all of it is held within Japan. As long as Japan "holds" it's own debt it is sustainable...

[Moon]

The per capita figures on the U.S. National Debt Clock are quite alarming. I think this is the best way to come to grips with such unimaginably large national numbers.

With regard to the Zeitgeist conspiracy theory movie, although entertaining, let me just say I hope the Debt Clock has a more robust scientific basis. In particular, I find the implications at 52:58 and 53:28 rather distasteful.

James

[michaellxv]

Who exactly do all these countries borrow from?

[wavelandscott]

That information is publically available...here in the USA well over half (guessing 60%) is owned within the USA in a variety of places...

The top fifteen are (in "round numbers" $USD B = billion T= trillion) according to the US Treasury (and other US Government sources)

Taiwan 130 B
Hong Kong 138 B
Caribbean Banks 159 B
Brazil 165 B
OPEC Countries 227 B (many of the oil producing countries)
US Insurance companies 261 B
US Commercial banks 274 B
UK 448 B
US States and local governments 535 B
US Pensions 644 B
US Mutual Funds 649 B
Japan 837 B
China 868 B
USA People (savings and estates) 1.266 T
US Government 5.345 T

[Octane]

James,

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it's a bit "out there". It is quite conspiracy theorist.

Still, there's some good stuff in the financial system bit which is eye-opening.

H

[joe_smith]

What most people dont know about the real owners of the worlds money system, the banks you think are owned by the governments are run by a private organisation, The Australian reserve bank, the US federal reserve are not government owned or controlled. These people create money from thin air and the lend it to governments at interest. We end up paying for it with our taxes. films like Zeitgest and my favourite one Kymatica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkbvJFEQgJU) are more then just "another conspiracy theory" if you look into it more you see they are more truth then theory.

I recommend you watch Kymatica its better then Zeitgest and if you like Avatar you can relate to one part of it. It also contains some graphic images and information about war, but the truth of what happens in the world is easier for us to ignore, and not deal with, as its not affecting me is it. It goes into a lot of stuff you wont believe, money, nature, man, governments, corporations, stuff they put in our water and food and the media, but believe me you can research yourself and its true. I like the quote in the movie "to see what is really happening in the world, you have to look at it as if you have just got here"

We have the know how and the people to do the unimaginable but the only thing holding us back is our money system that's corrupted by greed. The richest 1% (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/dec/06/business.internationalnews) of people in the world own 40% of the planet's wealth. We cant go to Mars because of lack of skills we cant go because of lack of $$$ people are staving to death not because of lack of food, but because of lack of $$$, war is not to benefit mankind its to make more $$$ with all those trillions of dollars being thrown around most of it went to the 1%'s anyway, the other 99% have to pay it back with hard labour, taxes and interest payments. its a mad, mad world we live in :screwy:

[Moon]

I just watched it and I and I assure you, it contains some facts and also a lot of conspiracy theory rubbish that gets perpetuated by uncritical minds.
Yes the financial system had serious flaws, but a utopian world without money and distribution centres where we can all take as much as we want is pure bunkum.
I had to laugh when I saw the store on the Venus Project (http://www.thevenusproject.com/store-donate) website.
Guess what? You have to pay!
James

[joe_smith]

Which one Zeitgest or Kymatica ?

For me the purpose of the Kymatica movie is to get people to look at the world in a different way. Not with what the media tells us its like. He dose say at the beginning "don't follow me, don't believe me, go find out for yourself.”

For us in good old safe oz, it is, but if you were starving with no shelter in a war torn place watching your people die you might think differently.

there's 2 sides to every story one says its right one says its wrong its how we deal with that issue that makes us great not who is right or who is wrong. We all have different world views as numerous as there are stars in the universe. Our world view is driven by our own needs, desires and what we are wiling or able to accept. There are many lies out there that are truths and many truths that are lies.

Till the day you die, brother :)