My first observations!!!!!

[ThunderChild]

Got my first telescope happening tonight - first time ever!
(6" Dob).
(Much thanks to Steve for allowing me to bug him).

Saw Mars, Orion's nebula and ... Saturn.

Oh my lord, Saturn. That one little gem has made me very excited.
Very excited indeed.
:jump:
It was only very small - but incredibly bright (dazzling white) using my 9mm plossl (1200mm fl - that makes 133% mag. no?).
I guess that brightness means that I've got more capacity for magnification (when I get a barlow or smaller lens) coz I'm getting ample light?

Anyway - I'm going back out there. Just had to tell someone. Was going to get to bed, but now I'm debating about hanging around and spending the night - not sure I'll sleep anyway.

[Starcrazzy]

Good onya thunderdude..

Glad to see ya got it going..Mabye a little more mag would be ok on the planets but not to much more...as you increase mag you loose alot of image quality, sometimes its better to have a smaller crystal sharp image then a big blurry one...wait till you see jupiter..;)

[janoskiss]

Glad you got it working! And that the clouds stayed away! You can push the magnification quite a bit higher with your scope if the seeing is good (atmosphere is still) and your scope is well collimated. Your scope should be able to do 250-300x without any problems.

[Twokids]

Well done Thunderchild,

Welcome to the dark side ;) .
I recently had a night where I organised most of my family to have a look through my telescope, and Saturn was the thing that had them blown away.
It was also what got me hooked, through my first telescope, a 60mm refractor :) .
You will now be up late every clear night so get used to living on minimal sleep.
Morning Jodie hates night Jodie :P

[jjjnettie]

Saturn does have that WOW factor doesn't it.
You never get tired of it.
As Starcrazy said, "wait till you see Jupiter" with his moons. He'll rise around midnight if you are finding it hard to get to sleep you should check it out. Take a pencil and paper with you, and sketch where the moons are, come back to him in an hour and see how far they have moved.

[davidpretorius]

well done.

no one will ever do to work rested and fresh again!

[Astroman]

Congrats on the scope, you will love it and the views.......

[ThunderChild]

Yeah Jodie,

Morning Chris hated night Chris this morning.
Ended up waking up at the time I'm normally getting into work.

Opened a bottle of Brown Brothers Reserve Port and spent a while
straining to see if I could find the Cassini Division. Probably a little
ambitious of me (no - of course I didn't get it :lol:)

That stellarium program was an incredible help too. Showed me exactly
where to look in the sky from my point of view on the ground.

[Starcrazzy]

yea, its a great programme..Once you work out the ecliptic you will sorta always know where the planets are, and you'll be driving around in the evening with friends and you'll say"look, there's venus, and what do ya know over there is Mars..lol...it really impresses them..in fact one night i was on a trip from newcastle to wollongong and got a bit lost after going over the bridge(they didnt tell me the road sent you out west)it was late at night and i was a little concerned about the fuel situation..lol, anyway i used venus as a referance and just ket heading south, eventually i made my way out sydney and found a farmiliar road..cool hey, i felt like magellan...lol..

ps, i don't think you will resolve the cassini divison, mabye on a perfect night and when he's really jigh in the sky,,but still, don't know...Have fun..

[Merlin66]

I spent almost 10 years using a 6" f8. You will certainly resolve the cassini division with about x180. And see the moons of Jupiter in transit, with their shadows!

[Starcrazzy]

ok, i stand corrected, i have a f6 8" and i have never resolved the division with that scope..Its a saxon, mabye the collimation is out ??dam..

[ThunderChild]

Awesome. I get the feeling I'll be purchasing some new hardware over the weekend. Currently have 9mm and 25mm plossl.

It sounds like one goal will be to obtain power to somewhere in the vicinity of
x180-x200. Would I be better off getting a 2xbarlow or another eyepiece (say 6.5mm)? Of course, the 2x barlow would give me x266 with the 9mm, so that would probably be a little high - wouldn't it?

Before I accumulate any more eye pieces, is it better to make the decision to go to 2" EP? Or am I better off staying with 1.25" for time being?
Recommendations for brands/types of EP's I should look for?

Chris

[cahullian]

Hi Chris
Sounds like you are having a real blast with your new toy.
I wouldn't go ep crazy...just yet he he.
An Orion shorty plus barlow x2 would be a good buy as it will double the ep's you now have. I have an 8" Dob and that was the first thing I bought.Maybe the 15 mm plossl would be a good start also.
Enjoy your sleepless nights.

Gazz/Irish

[ThunderChild]

Thanks for the advice.
A x2 barlow would make x266 with my 9mm. Is that getting too high?
Would that still resolve a viewable image?

Chris

[iceman]

On most nights, no. Well, you'll see something, but it'll be blurry and appear out of focus.. thanks to the seeing conditions it's rare that you can push beyond 200x.

Of course you *want* the eyepieces that will allow you to go higher on nights of good seeing. So it could be a good idea to get a 15mm eyepiece and a 2x barlow.

If it's in your budget, I'd get a 15mm TV plossl (approx $150) and a 2x orion shorty plus (approx $150).

The 15mm barlowed (to 7.5mm) will be a good planetary eyepiece on most nights, giving you 166x. When the seeing is much better, you could barlow your 9mm.

[davidpretorius]

no, i have been using a 5mm vixen recently on jupiter and saturn and earlier mars. it gives me in my 10" 1250 = 250x. I got to use it say 8 or 9 times out of 10. The only times i couldn't were over xmas when the jet stream (http://www.wunderground.com/auto/virtuallythere_jan3/global/Region/AU/2xJetStream.html) was yellow!!! If the stars are really twinkling, then the atmosphere is really shifting about and your image will shift about.

At times i was able to barlow this with the 2.4x and 5x for horrendously stupid magnifications, but there was only one night where this worked for the 2.4x ie 600x.

Last november, the "seeing" as we term it (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,196,0,0,1,0&hashID=35879d4b230837150306e5c9e6c4 e508 although we tend to say 9/10 or 10/10 is perfect) was so good that saturn had just risen and we thru all sorts of magnifications at it and the image was great ie 600x and above

You will get a better feel the more you go out. You need still conditions ie no wind, still atmosphere ie no jetstream etc and then steady temperatures so that you main mirror is the same temperature as the surrounding air. Then and only then can you push the magnifcation up over 200 and beyond.

A 2x barlow will be good, it turns your 9 into a 4.5 and your 25 into a 12.5

[janoskiss]

yes, collimation must be way out. cassini is easy in my 8" at 120x. the 6" should have it for breakfast too.

[ThunderChild]

Hmmm - I was running with 133x and not getting it.
So maybe what I need is a collimation tool instead of a barlow or EP's...

[janoskiss]

Noooo! Don't get the Shorty Plus!! Don't you hate yours, Gazz?!
Shorty Plus is worth about $60 new! Not $139 that they sell for. The views through mine were very ordinary. That's why I sold it for only $50, after I saw what a real barlow could do. A basic 2x barlow ($50 or less) should do as well as the Shorty Plus.

[janoskiss]

Seeing was horrible last night, so I'm not surprised. Stars were twinkling near zenith!

[iceman]

Exactly, collimation is only one factor, but the seeing is the major factor.

[ThunderChild]

Man, all this is scary for a newbie to see.
It seems impossible to know for sure that anything I buy is going to be good/bad/waste of money. At $130+, I would have hoped (assumed) it to be a fine piece. *clunk* The penny is definitely dropping that I need to hang around for a while and try out what other people have got before I go and buy some stuff myself.

[ThunderChild]

Ok - another dumb question :

I assumed "seeing" was about how clear the sky was.
So does it really refer to the amount of "twinkle" in the stars? (ie the amount that the layers of air are moving around)?

Chris

[Muddy Diver]

Congrats ThunderChild on your new hobby. Like you I, and my family, were blown away with Saturn and felt ashamed that it had always been there and we have never bothered to look closer, earlier. I am now just as impressed with Jupiter and it's moons. Awesome. I remember reading that Callisto (one of the moons) could contain a salty lake beneath it's surface and is the place in our solar system where scientists believe they can prove that life, if it exists/existed there, is not a fluke and simply has to be evident anywhere else that has the environment to support it. Fascinating!

The discussion on Cassini's division is of interest to me and has sparked a few more questions from this hungry beginner.

While I could never get bored looking at Saturn, I am kind of over the initial rush that you get each time and am looking to push the scope or at least learn its capabilities. In saying, I have tried to resolve the division on a couple of occasions and for a split second feel that it appeared and quickly dissappeared.

With my 4" Mak (1350mm Fl) and 6mm ep (225X mag) does anyone think I must be imagining I've seen it (cos I am) or do I simply need more light gathering power. The F ratio is quite high (13) due to the smallish diameter.

I have also a 10mm ep giving 132X but feel the image would be too small.

2nd question. When using a barlow do you lose much light at the same time? i.e Should I expect a better image from a 10mm ep with a 2X barlow versus a 5mm ep for example. What is the difference in image using the two set ups?

Any help is, as always, greatly appreciated.:prey2:

[janoskiss]

Yes, don't rush out and spend big yet. It could be that the Shorty Plus is not that bad, and I just got unlucky and got a dud (??). You bought the 6" rather than the 8" because you didn't want to spend too much on your first scope (and saved $100)! Now we're already talking about getting $300 worth of accessories to look at Saturn! :rofl: Welcome to astronomy! :D

You'll see plenty more with just what you have when seeing is good and scope's collimated. If you want a bit more, then a 15mm GS or Synta plossl + barlow for under $50 each would do you very nicely for quite some time. But collimating eyepiece should be the 1st priority.

I saw 2" eyepieces mentioned here. I don't think your scope has a 2" focuser, does it?

[Starcrazzy]

hey thunderchild, did ya get thet moon atlass, i pm'd you the link..??and also a link for a red dot finder..this saved me hours of frustration, when you start looking for dso's you will relish it..trust me;)..i bet it won't be long untill your out there hunting down the messier list,I was fortunate when i started scorpious was high in the east and i could locate a good handfull of messier objects from the printed maps in one evening...its when i truely got addicted, there are still heaps of dso's to see this time of year..the magellenic clouds are optimal for viewing at the moment, and the good thing is dso's love lower powers of mag..also have a look for tucana 47 and the eta carina, all in the south...

enjoy

[ving]

hi chris,

great stuff looking at these things hey :)

with 1/2 decent seeing you should be able to the casini div easy :)
hell, i've done it in a 60mm! with goo seeing you will get subtle colours in the actual disc of saturn.
the sky's the limit now dude!!! :D

next purchase i'd go collimation tool, then either an eyepiece of barlow.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have resolved the Casisin div with all three of my scopes with ease. The 6 inch refractor does it with out a swet!! on 12 or 14mm eye peace and the 76mm Borge fitted with a 2 inch Meade ultra wide 14mm, it can be done on a clear night also.

I find the focus on the big refractor allows a much more crisp division to appear, where my experience with reflectors, is that the smaller ones will blur the edges slight and loose the division. My biggest investment that made the difference on the Mead, was the "Bobs nobs"... on the focus.

regards


Tony

[janoskiss]

Muddy, I'd say your 6mm probably goes to as high a mag as your 4" Mak can handle.

In my limited experience, a good eyepiece in a good barlow will be a lot better than an mediocre equivalent focal length eyepiece (e.g., barlowed 12mm UO HD ortho vs 6mm GS Plossl). And if you are talking just basic EPs like budget plossls, then barlowed 10 or 12mm will still be much more usable than a native 5 or 6mm because of eye relief. If you buy a different design short FL EP with more eye relief (ER), it will have the extra barlow-type lenses inside to extend the ER, so a simple EP like an ortho in a good barlow should be just as good if not better.

[ballaratdragons]

If you intend to get a barlow, I bought the GS 2" 2x barlow. $79 I think it was from Andrews.

The advantage of the 2" barlow is it will take 1.25" & 2" EP's. I have heard several people say in here that they wished they had bought the 2" barlow instead of the 1.25" because when they eventually bought 2" EP's they could'nt barlow them.

And if you ever end up with a 30mm GS 2" SuperView, the barlow gets rid of the abberations around the edges!

[Merlin66]

While everyone can see, not everyone can SEE. The eye needs to be trained to register what it images into the brain. Dark adapted, Averted vision, deep breathing, lack of nicotine all change the way we see.
If you're looking for fine detail even the orientation of your head relative to the eyepiece can make a difference. Practise, practise, practise!!!!!!
If you make a sketch of what you do see; you'll find after awhile you record more and more detail.
Remember most of the keen dedicated amateurs prior to the 1930's were using small refractors/ reflectors and managed to do great things.

[iceman]

Good point Merlin.. when I first started I could only make out 2 brown belts of Jupiter, nothing else.

With practise and experience, knowing what you're looking for, waiting until it's higher in the sky, hoping for a good night of seeing, all change what you can see, and now on Jupiter I can see much much more detail than I could back then.

[ballaratdragons]

Yep Merl, you are right!

Thats like I mentioned in my post about the Orion neb. I suggested that people stare at it for at least 5 minutes if they want to see the pink & green gas!

Now, because I know what I am looking for, it only takes me about 10 seconds to see both colours. I trained my eye to know what to look for.

[janoskiss]

Ken, Both scopes in question the 6" Dob and the 4" Mak have 1.25" focusers, I believe, so 2" accessories won't work.

Re cassini div, you don't need to practice squat. :P It's obvious to most first timers when conditions are right. It is true that you will see more and more with practice.
Mars is a tough one for newcomers, even when it's relatively close to Earth. I showed Mars to about 15 people a month or so ago through the ED80. Only one could see any surface detail. And he was the only person there who owned a scope.

[RAJAH235]

If you've only got 1.25" E/Pcs, what's wrong with the Meade # 140 telenegative Barlow? Works extemely well. It's an apo too. :D L.

[jjjnettie]

Did anyone mention using AVERTED vision?
Sometimes it really helps to not actually LOOK at what you are trying to see. Just by using your peripheral vision you can tease out finer details.
Make sure your eyes are fully dark adapted before looking through the eyepiece.