Is this good for my first scope?

[ThunderChild]

Hi all,

I am a complete newbie who wants to enter into astronomy,
but who's head is spinning from all the research I've been doing
into telescopes and how to get started.

I have found the following telescope for sale and am interested
in people's opinions as to whether this would be worthy of a
first scope (for the price).

Bushmaster Star Explorer 114 900 reflector EQ for $200.
(comes with 6mm, 20mm lenses, 2x barlow and moon lens).
It uses 'magnification' as it's main advertising pitch, which would
normally have scared me away - but I figure a 114mm aperture
for $200 AUD can't be all that bad. I can't tell by looking how good
the EQ mount is or if it's going to shake all over the place.

Can anyone shed any light on the Bushmaster brand? They would
appear to be on the lower end of the scale. Can't get much info
from their website.

Can anyone help me decide if this good value for money?
Will I just be frustrated at the performance or is it Ok to get me
started?

Much thanks,
Cheers,
Chris

[rochler]

I'd be wary of the Bushmaster, it's basically a 'Dept. store' brand and is more likely to frustrate you & put you off Astronomy for good. While it might seem good value for $200 (and probably is) it will definitely be very wobbly (cheap mount), have a slack focuser (mebbe even plastic R&P) etc. The eyepieces & barlow will be junk.

You can't get a decent scope for $200 unless you are lucky enough to get a second hand bargain from another amateur who is upgrading and is prepared to offload his/her old one at a third of what he/she paid. You'd be MUCH better off getting a decent pair of binoculars & a tripod and start off with that while you save up for something good. If you can scratch together $600 or more, then go for a decent Dob. to get you started.

Above all things, don't be in a hurry to fork over your cash - go to your local Astro club and attend a viewing night. Try out different scope types & find what you like & what you are comfortable with.

Good luck on your mission!

Cheers, Fred.... :P

[janoskiss]

That's what I thought when I got my 114mm for $199. It's gotta be a bargain at that price; how bad can it get? After having owned the reflector for over 1 year, I can say confidently say that it is not worth it. You will get poor optics and a near useless mount. A 60mm refractor will do at least ass well as that scope. If you are on a very tight budget, I would recommend a 6" Dobsonian for $299 from Andrews Communications, or if you want a more compact scope grab one of 80 or 90mm refractors on an AZ3 mount from AOE.
www.andrewscom.com.au
www.aoe.com.au

[ving]

yeah for about $50 more go for the 80mm f/7.5 from aoe.com.au as steve showed ya :)
the 6" dob at andrews will show you a hell of alot more tho :)

[Noidea]

On the subject of dob's from Andrew's. I am currently looking at buying a Dob myself and noticed that they stock a Chinese sounding brand which seems to offer more value for money than the popular Skywatcher. Can anyone comment on this? Paul

[ving]

guan sheng. most dob owners here have one :)
very good value for money. there have been a few minor complaints but nothing too dramatic.

I have the 8"

[ballaratdragons]

Paul,

Are you talking about the 'Guan Sheng'? If you are, that's the good brand known by the name 'GS' or 'GSO'. That's what most of us dobbers have! I have their 12" model and love it!

If you mean 'Synta' the quality isn't as good but they are OK (just).

[ThunderChild]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for getting back so quickly! And thanks for steering me away from the bushmaster. The only thing I would say in it's defense is that $200 wasn't the RRP - it looks like it's being discounted from $300-$350 to get rid of the last of the stock.

janoskiss : Thanks for the links and advice. I must admit to wanting to
stay cheap, but could probably stretch to $300. The 6" Dob from andrews comms would be great depending if it's feasible to ship to Melbourne without blowing the cost out.

Does anyone know of Melbourne based stores with comparable prices to these? I've seen some specialty astronomy shops around who definitely seem to know what they're on about, but are much more expensive.

Really appreciate this help guys! You're probably saving me from buying something which would have turned me off the hobby for good.
Any good Melbourne based stores? (or is shipping from NSW not all that bad?)

Cheers,
Chris

[ballaratdragons]

Bintel in Melbourne sell the same scope! They call it a 'Bintel' scope instead of a 'GS'.

[janoskiss]

There are two brands: GSO (Guan Sheng Optical) from Taiwan, and Synta (sold under Skywatcher and Saxon brand names amongst others) from China. I expect these scopes to be similar optically. The design of the mount is a little different and it's personal preference which one you like better.

[ving]

bintel.com.au

they have a melbourne store :)

[janoskiss]

Andrews had the 8" shipped to me (Sydney to Melbourne) for $40 last year, so I expect the 6" to cost no more. I'm not sure if Bintel sell the 6", and probably it will cost more anyway. Bintel have more stringent internal QC and experienced people so their stuff is a bit dearer. Worth paying the extra if you can afford it. If not then Andrews is cheapest.

[Noidea]

Yes, I did mean Guan Sheng, and if they are ok with you guys, then I'm sure they're more than good enough for a newbie like me.

[ThunderChild]

Bintel - yes, when I spoke about having seen a store nearby that seem to know
what they're talking about - that was them infact.
But their cost did seem to be more than many other stores I've seen on the net.

Also, bintel do not stock a 6" Dob, from what I've seen. Would have to go to an 8" (for >$500). I'm not ready to spend that much for my first scope - call me a cheapskate! ;-)

There seems to be a consensus that the best thing I could do sub $300 is the 6" Dob from andrews comms.
Might have to ask about their shipping rates (and what lenses/accessories comes with it).

Cheers,
Chris

[ving]

yeah you'll be fine with it :)
you'll have to learn collimation tho... but that easy once you know how :)

[janoskiss]

The 6" GSO Dob should be a nice scope. You will probably just get two eyepieces, 25mm and 9 or 10mm perhaps. If you do not want to spend any more then just the two EPs will do nicely. If you can spend a bit more this is what I'd get (in order of priority):
- collimating tool $29
- 15mm eyepiece ($29-$39, depending on brand)
- 2x barlow lens (<$50)

Just make sure you do not get any eyepieces shorter than 9mm in focal length, because they will be near useless.

[Striker]

And shipping shouldn't be too much from Andrews...I ordered a 8" dob and only cost me $50 postage 1 year ago....from Sydney to Brisbane.

[ThunderChild]

I just wanted to thank everybody for all your help.
I ended up ringing Andrews Comms and getting that 6" Dob.
In case anyone's interested, it comes with 2 Plossl eyepieces
(25mm and 9mm), a 6x30 finder scope, binoculars and moon filter.
Shipment to Melbourne was $40 - but even with that on top, I'm
still coming out pretty well for what I'm getting (at least I hope so!).

janoskiss, thanks for your help. :prey2:
I notice you live very close to myself (Box Hill).
Are you part of a local club or society?
Any recommendations for good clubs or good locations? Now I need to start learning... :-)

Cheers,
Chris

[ving]

congrats chris, it'll be a tops scope to start with :D

[janoskiss]

You're off to a good start. You're getting a lot of scope for your money. :thumbsup: I'll try to send you a PM later tonight. I'd better get back to work now. ;)

[astrogeek]

A good society is the Astronomical Society of Victoria. It is the biggest in the southern hemisphere and a great society. I have been a member for about four years now. There is a wide variety of speciallised groups within the society for those interested. They also have a dark sky site about 1 1/2 to 2 hours drive from melbourne. For more info go to:

www.asv.org.au

Leon

[Ziggy Stardust]

for my two cents...

my first scope waited a full year extra, so I could get something good. I started with the Bino's and learn to find stars and systems first, then after a year of looking and saving, got me a shop demo. It was a Helois (also called Skywatcher insome markets) 6 inch scope.
The old girl is still in my collection and is one of my favourite toys, as she is big and collects lots of light, but still easy to cart around in a car! All I did do was put some extra meat around the sliding joints and beef up the thumb screws with new SS ones. Because my first scope was agood quality scope, I had many enjoyable nights and days ( doing solar work). Many times I have seen guys rush off and buy cheap and cry all night, So if you got $200 now,,, save a few months till you got $600~$900... then you can get something great.

These days I use my big Meade, the Helois and the Borge at most meetings. each has it own target area that it excels at.... be that planets, the moon or the deep sky fuzzyball...
Also i found that once I started to use 2inch eye peaces on the 6inch refractor, it came out in full bloom and showed me what it could really do!!!!


Tony

[mickoking]

I orderd a 250 mm Dob and the postage to Perth was $90-.

[janoskiss]

"Heaps better"? What's wrong with your GS? And what's so much better about the Synta? Please, tell us more! :confuse3:

(BTW: The ED80 was the first thing to pop into my head when I read Ken's comment. But just cos they made a good refractor does not nec mean they make good reflectors... :shrug: )

[iceman]

I'm sure it's a quite open debate.. it depends who you talk to.

Some will say the skywatcher (synta) dobs are better than GSO, others will say the opposite.

But in any case, there's not a lot of difference in it so I certainly don't think you could say either of them are "only ok".

Unfortunately you won't find many people who have owned both, in order to have done a side by side.

[Roger Davis]

Synta or Guan Sheng, optically there is not much difference. Both fall into the category of delivering images to the eye which have a wavefront that does not give blurry images. Wavefront error for both is less than 1/8th of a wave of sodium light (seen them as good as 1/10th) that's after primary and secondary reflection. Test done using Foucault and Ronchi tests, as well as comparison of stars as per "Star Testing Astronomical Telescopes" by **** Suiter. (Also see ATM Journal article on what the eye can see with verious wavefront errors.)
The difference lies in the side bearings. Synta with the handles and Guan Sheng with the springs.
Both have their disadvantages.
The GS Spring was a *******isation of an invention that appeared in the Amateur Telescope Makers Journal or Magazine, about controlling the balance of a Dob with tangential pressure on the altitude bearing by using a spring. The GS one is nothing like that which was proposed! It does work in a fashion, but not as per the intention of the original designer. A tangential control gives EVEN control over the entire 90° of travel in altitude.
The handles on the Synta have their problems too. There is a small ball bearing thrust washer on the handle closest to the observer that bears against another threaded washer onto the side of the rocker box. Through overtightening or constant adjustment (even disassembling and reassembling) the threaded washer can lose its thread and fall off, leaving you with a hand full of ball bearings (fixed a couple now). The tension from this handle can also distort the rocker box side, giving a non-orthogonal bearing. Not so good for DSC's.
So take your pick, one is just as bad as the other.

[Roger Davis]

What is this? **** The gentlemans name is Richard and he wants to be known as **** but the word **** is being removed due to its other conotation. The word *******ise is a perfectly good term referring to the misuse of a principle, not a person born out of wedlock.
Isn't this censorship going too far?

[iceman]

The "naughty word filters" have been in place for over 12 months, and haven't had a review. The moderators and I have been discussing which words should and shouldn't be censored, and the discussion is ongoing.

This is a family friend forum, it's a fine balance between allowing a word calling someone by their preferred name, and allowing a word where it could be used in other fashions. Yes it's censorship. Is it going too far? I don't think so.

Anyway, it's off-topic to this thread. If you've got ideas or suggestions, please email or PM me, or start a discussion on it in the website feedback forum.

[janoskiss]

hehehe. Roger, Thanks for the wealth of info on the two types of Dobs! Yes those springs are better than nothing, but I don't like them. I prefer to use counterweights for balance instead and have the same amount of force required to move up & down. The friction on the my GS altitude bearings is still not great though, even when the scope's balanced. The laminate I got for the base is too stiff to bend around the bearings. The tinkering never ends...

You learn to live with the word filter after a while. You can drink & drive here and no one can call you nasty names like the TAC would. Friendly place this. :love: :lol: