Bit of a rant

[Louwai]

The flaming coppers are really starting to pick on motorcycle riders lately. Just N/west of Brisbane is Mt Glorious which is a very popular place for riders. At the top is a very nice café where, on a Sunday lunch time, there would easily be 100 or more bikes, live music & great atmosphere.
Recently the coppers decided to visit. They brought with them a “Set-Square”. Someone has obviously looked at, & misinterpreted the AU motorcycle regulations. The coppers walked along each side of the road & were putting the set-square on the rear swingarm of each bike. If the rear mud-guard was not within 45deg, that particular bike received a defect notice.
Most of the bikes that were defected were totally stock standard as per the manufacturer’s spec. Of course these people did not get a fine of any kind because their bike was legal & correct, BUT, the simple fact that they were defected in the first place means that, before they can prove otherwise the bike must be towed from the position where it was defected & then presented at an inspection station. When a defect notice is given the vehicle / bike MUST NOT be driven / ridden anywhere. It MUST be towed regardless of the fact that it actually was not defective at the time.
So on that day there were about 40 bikes that were defected & towed, but which totally 100% met the manufacturer’s & by default, the Qld transport regulations.
The worst part is that, even though they were incorrectly defected & should not have been in the first place, they still had to pay for the bike to be towed / carried to their home & to the inspection station. None of these costs can be claimed back.
Further to that, the defect stickers that the coppers use have a very strong & corrosive glue on them. On every bike defected, the coppers stuck the sticker onto the painted surface of the fuel tank. Just the same as putting a sticker in the middle of the car bonnet.

On the same day they were also giving out tickets for "not securing your vehicle". It seems there is a rule somewhere that says you can not leave your keys in your vehicle if you are more than 3m away from it. So any bike that was parked & the keys left in it received a ticket. Regardless that the owner was sitting at a table in full view of it & about 8m away.

They obviously are trying hard to become a friendly & respected police force.:shrug:

[PCH]

May cramps parade through their bowels throughout the new year ! They need to get a life. It sure beats chasing crims I guess :P

[En1gma]

As a bike rider. This is ludicrous!!!.

I am surprised they would have the nerve doing such a thing, especially to a stock bike.. IMHO, this is media material. Send it to tt or aca.

Rob

[jenchris]

Send a bill to the police and notify the media

[torana68]

. So any bike that was parked & the keys left in it received a ticket. Regardless that the owner was sitting at a table in full view of it & about 8m away.

They obviously are trying hard to become a friendly & respected police force.:shrug:[/QUOTE]

correct your virtually inciting thieft by leaving a vehicle with the keys in it, but why do it anyway? you wont get insurrance if its nicked with the keys in it either :D defects, dunno but from qld pol.
(i) self clearance defect. A self clearance defect is any defect that does not significantly affect the overall safety of the vehicle, e.g. inoperable number plate light, inoperable windscreen wipers detected when it is not raining, cracked tail light or brake light lens, inoperable warning device, inoperable headlight detected during daylight hours, etc. which does not require that any repairs or rectification be inspected;
(ii) minor defect. A minor defect is any defect which does not significantly affect the overall safety of the vehicle but which requires that any repairs or rectification be inspected;
(iii) major defect. A major defect is any defect which renders the vehicle unsafe, e.g. excessive body rust, steering mechanism, brakes, etc; and
(iv) major dangerous defect. A major dangerous defect is any defect which renders the vehicle unsafe to such an extent that it is necessary to immediately prohibit the use of the vehicle on a road.
so there is an a option of tow away for serious defects and get it inspected within(?) days for little things (like dodgy mudguards) I would think there are a few things going on here, the bikes that had to be towed had more than one issue (not just mudguards cause that would be either self fix or present for inspection) and there have been many many complaints from the public about bikes in the area. :D

[AdrianF]

Class action time for costs and damages. I know I wouldn't be very happy if they did that to my bike.
Most bike riders, myself included, take pride in their bikes and I know I wouldn't allow my bike to be on the road if it was unroadworthy or defective.



Adrian

[Louwai]

Agree Roger on all points.

There are many idiots on bikes that use the mountain for a race track. I'd be the first one to dob in an absolute idiot doing stupid things. May I add that there are plenty of cars doing the same thing. Any Saturday or Sunday morning you can see the evidence of "drifting" on the corners.

Seems that the way the coppers deal with the complaints is to target the riders that are easy to catch. ie parked on the side of the road having a social chat or lunch.
It's too difficult to catch the idiots who never stop at the cafe. All they do is blast on through & keep going.

So to try & make it an undesirable place for riders to go, the coppers slap a major defect notice on as many bikes as they can so that the owner gets so annoyed that he never comes back. As usual, most just cop it.

[Hagar]

I don't know what the law says about mud flaps in QLD but many years ago (30+) I went to get a motorbike licence in Victoria on a brand new bike only to be told I couldn't go for my licence because the rear mud flap didn't extend below the center line of the rear wheel. The testing center in Carlton maintained my new bike was unroadworthy. I had to re-book for the test and fit a piece of rubber to the end of the standard mud flap and then remove it later. I argued the point that the bike was new but the police Sargent just shut the door on the argument and told me to come back when it was fixed.

[Louwai]

That type of thing can't happen now Doug. The manufacturers must adhear to the Australian vehicle regulations. So any vehicle that is unchanged from manufacturers spec, must comply by default. Otherwise the manufacturer would not be allowed to sell the bike in Australia.
The coppers handing out defect notices SHOULD know the regulations before they start such an operation.
That's why I noted in the first post that whoever looked at the regulations obviously misread or misunderstood them.

[Brundah1]

Agree with Bryan,
This is a case of lazy cops having a spak attack.

I drive over the Mt. Glorious route regularly (in a 4WD) and have friends living on the mountain. Hoons on 2 and 4 wheels are not uncommon, as are media reports of fatal and serious accidents on long weekends.

About a month ago I stopped at the top cafe for a bite, there were about 40 bike riders doing the same. Majority were respectable law abiders with well cared for machines. Drop in any sunny Sunday around mid day and you will find the same types taking a break at the cafe.

Time to call in the media hounds and expose this type of lazy police victimisation. But you would need to gather some evidence of those defected.:thumbsup:

[taminga16]

I cannot help but think that the "Lazy Coppers" were well versed in the relevant Law and detail before they issued any notices, to come prepared with an adjustable square is a fair indication of same. As for leaving the keys in the ignition, More fool the offenders, for they would most likely be the people who gripe the most when their premiums increase.

Greg.
P.S. I am a Victorian motor-cyclist, owner of three vehicles, Tax victim etc and I agree, pursue the issue of the mud guards but the responsibility of being familiar with the law in relation to the operation of a vehicle is up to the Driver/ Rider.

[Jeffkop]

Meanwhile some REAL baddies have had their way and got away scott-free!!! ... because ... in their own words ...the police are under-manned.
All it would take is ONE of those who attended to be a reasonable human and after a scan of the bikes present would quickly advise the rest that there's nothing doing here .. lets go to the next job, (to hopefully get to actually uphold the law)

[torana68]

some of the people are criminals, below is from a bike forum, names removed but if morons behave this way Im happy for local police to turn up, shame as yes they are understaffed but what do you do......
the road is **** as, there are tons of signs with pictures of bikes on them saying SPEED KILLS and ACCIDENT AREA, apperently up that way a little bit back a couple guys were coming round a corner @ 200+ and hit some old peopl pulling out onto the road with a trailer, both killed instantly.

Yeah, I remember the article in the Courier Mail. The speedo on one of the bikes was stuck on 190kph. Apparently there were 3 of 'em, the third guy was lagging behind them wasn't involved in the accident. I know the roads around there well, these guys were just going too fast in the wrong place, and I think Main Roads has decided to take steps




.

[JethroB76]

While its an interesting "offence" I must admit - leaving your keys in the ignition - but why do you do it? I don't think I would ever leave the keys in my car if I went into a cafe or the like - too many douche-bags about
:confused2: So, no pockets?

[Louwai]

This debate has been had many times.

It's the impact that kills & the cause of the impact is idiots riding / driving at a speeds well above their control capability & usually on unfamiliar roads.


Having said that, why should I be lumped into the same catagory as them just because I ride??
I've been riding for well over 20yrs & only ever had 1 accident. That accident was not my fault & totally out of my control as I was hit from behind on the freeway.
So why should I be bullied by coppers while I'm quietly sitting with my partner having lunch at a cafe because someone else was riding too fast.

Don't bother me, go & catch the prick who was breaking the law.

[mithrandir]

It does not necessarily follow that the bike was doing 190. Rapid deceleration and damage to the instruments can wind up with just about anything being registered.

[torana68]

[QUOTE=Louwai;662108]So why should I be bullied by coppers while I'm quietly sitting with my partner having lunch at a cafe because someone else was riding too fast.

unfortunately your there and the difference between you and the idiot seen in the area speeding is ? (not saying it was you) "riding too fast" and riding at 200k's are 2 different things one is a 'woops' the other is antiosocial behaviour that can and does end in death, death being fairly serious I would expect mr plod to enquire as to whats what if I was there, Id be quite happy to tell him and I doubt I'd get a defect or be bullied. They are there because of the actions of other bike riders, do you actively discourage the idiots who are the ones bringing all of you into discredit?

was your bike defected ? did you have to tow it? how exactly were you "bullied"?

[Ric]

Hi Bryan, it sound to me like the police are returning to the bad old days of the 70's and 80's where you would be pulled over for no reason, then kept there for an hour or so while the obligatory rego and road worthiness check was done.

It didn't matter if you had a Harley or a trail bike you were automatically assumed to be a hard core bikie and therefore a menace on the roads.

[Peter Ward]

Agreed Bryan.... Bone-lazy policing. One wonders how many burglaries they solved in the previous week.

Pro-Bono class action might be worth a try....

[Allan_L]

Agreed!
And shocked that this could happen.
Even though I have seen more and more "deterrent action" from police towards innocent bikers lately too.
But I don't leave my keys in my bike ... except when riding :)

But the defect sticker on the polished fuel tank !!!
Sounds like pure SPITE to me.
I would be so ...

[AstralTraveller]

My sister and family had their camper van stolen from outside a motel in Caboolture - the gooses didn't lock it down. (They had stayed overnight in the motal to be at the Woodford festival early the next day.) After they discovered the theft some people in the house across the road teased my nieces about the van, as if they knew what happened. A car arrived and the driver said something that made it clear he knew all about the theft. They gave the coppers the address and the rego number of the car. Action??? Nil, nada, nix. They didn't even go to the house and ask questions.

[Louwai]

No roger, I wasn't there on the day. The comment I made in the previous post was simply a scenario. But that scenario did happen to many riders. As I noted, there were well over 100 bikes there on the day. A typical Sunday lunch time.

The difference. I suppose the same difference as every other rider who was present that also did not commit the offence. Too often I have heard non-riders say "it's a bike, who cares, they probably deserved it".

The information I have is via approx 15 riders who are friends of mine who were there on the day. 3 of them were incorrectly defected as they have totally 100% off-the-shelf bikes. No modifications or adjustments at all.
1 of them ended up having to get his tank resprayed due to the paint damage caused by the defect sticker glue. Needless to say he is extremely annoyed.
The cost of this was less than his insurance deductable & so didn't claim it. If he had claimed it I'd like to see how the insurance company went about getting their money back form the Police dept.

[torana68]

Louwai No roger, I wasn't there on the day.

well then to me thats a little odd , it's all second hand hearsay and really best left to those that had first hand knowledge. been there seen all this and I know that everytime there was more to the story

The information I have is via approx 15 riders who are friends of mine who were there on the day. 3 of them were incorrectly defected

so 12 out of 15 were riding defectable bikes??? did i read that wrong? if I didnt this is why they are being targeted. I really cant see sticker glue damaging paint :shrug: but where should a sticker be put? there arent too many non painted surfaces on a bike

The cost of this was less than his insurance deductable & so didn't claim it. If he had claimed it I'd like to see how the insurance company went about getting their money back form the Police dept.

you cant claim for damage from a defect sticker removal, mostly because you would find your insurance void for the bike being unroadworthy (due to the sticker). Its pretty easy to apply for costs to the police and complain but as it seems none have I can only assume that there is more to it and the defects on a whole were deserved. I really think you have been led down a path by some unhappy people who got caught out....if not then they should grow some and stand up by making their complaints in person to Qld Pol, its not hard to do.

[Louwai]

Let me make it more clear for you.

3 out of the 15 were incorrectly defected. The remaining 12 were not defected at all.
All 3 which received defect stickers were subsequently inspected & the defect notice removed without any remedial work being required. This is because the inspector was well aware of the requirements & all 3 bikes were 100% legal to be on the road.

The sticker could be put on the Stainless Steel exhaust, or the glass headlight, or on the windscreen.
Any of which are in as easy reach as the painted fuel tank.

Why can't the damage be claimed??
The bike did not have a defect of any kind as proven by the subsequent inspection & removal of the defect notice without ANY remedial work required to be done to the bike.
Therefore it's proven that the bike was incorrectly defected in the first place.
This case, if worthwhile being taken to court, could easily be proven that the bike was incorrectly defected & therefore the damage caused by the placement of the sticker should never have happened

[jenchris]

I'm not keen on bickering - there's a problem here that needs to be addressed.
The persons who were stickered incorrectly MUST front up with a complaint to the police ombudsman with a bill or receipt for the tank damage.
The easiest way to get redress is to contact your member of parliament and the police and the media with a CCd mail.

They'll be wonderful - for a while - problem is of course, as we all know, is that the police are then going to target you - as they target everyone who gets back at them for being thugs.

You have to watch your back for the next two years.

[Peter Ward]

Small claims division for the sticker damage to the fuel tank could be worth a try.

A magistrate could then decide whether the damage could have reasonably been avoided: eg Mr Plod could had attached the notice with tacks and a hammer & the effect would have been the same. Duty of care etc.

Costs about $120-$150 in NSW to run such a case yourself.

I took an insurer to the same court a few years back. Despite saying they would defend the case with vigor, the slack buggers never filed a defence...hence after 30 days got a default judgement in my favour. Got damages plus costs! :D

[Ric]

Hi Roger, I have seen first hand the effect of that type of glue on paintwork (not my own bike) and it has a pronounced effect on the finish effect as in the coat that give the gloss effect is removed.

In one case I have seen the paint come off as well.

I sure you wouldn't like to have such a sticker plastered across the bonnet or roof of your pride and joy.

[torana68]

they go on the windscreen on cars :) plus I havent ever had one on a bike or car and probably never will :D ( I am a rider before anyone wanders off on the "not a bike rider" thing)

[Ric]

I wasn't suggesting that you weren't a rider Roger. :)

I know they go on car windscreens but imagine if it was stuck accross the bonnet, it would be the same as the tank of a bike.

Judging by your handle I'd guess your into Torana's as well, I have a 75 LH Torana also and if anyone stuck anything on that I'd probably be quite upset them to put it mildly. ;)

Cheers

[torana68]

really if they stuck one on any painted surface of a car they are laible for any damage caused as thats not where they are instructed to place them, where Qld Pol put them on bikes I dunno but anywhere is going to be an issue, if I was to take the scenario on face value a complaint would be the way to go (and the correct thing to do) along with a claim for damage but as I said before seems they choose not to stand up for whatever reason (:rolleyes:, no way till hell froze over would I shrug my shoulders and pay to have a tank repainted as per the story, just would NOT happen)
Torana's yes but no longer :( bikes only off road now and havent started one for a few years :( might have to put the telescopes in the shed and get the bikes out if this weather is going to continue.