December & January Observation Challenge

[mental4astro]

Hi all,

I'm making this Obs. Challenge for both December and January due to fore seeable complications of the festive season. I apologize if this annoys fellow IIS'ers.

Part I

Hail Australia's first great astronomer - James Dunlop

This Obs. Challenge has a distinct pioneer flavour. James Dunlop is regarded as Australia's first great astronomer, even regarded as one of the Southern Skies first great astronomers. His many hundereds of object discoveries all being catalogued from the now non-existant Parramatta Observatory in Sydney's west.

The extent of James Dunlop's work is honoured with the official Dunlop Catalogue of objects.

Fellow IIS member, glenc, has done extensive work on the life of James Dunlop. The first part of this Challenge is a selection by Glen of Dunlop's discoveries, all of which are observable in amateur sized scopes. His 9.5" scope was of the optical quality of a modern 6" scope.

Open Cluster
NGC 2243 - in Canis Major. A faint OC, that could prove a little difficult to make out from the surrounding mass of stars

Globular Clusters
NGC 1261 - in Horologium. A 10" scope begins to resolve this GC.
NGC 1851 - in Columba. One of the better objects in 'The Dove'
NGC 2298 - in Puppis. A small GC that is heavily obscured by galactic dust.

Galaxies

NGC 1316 & 1317 - in Fornax. A pair of interacting galaxies.
NGC 1365-1380 - in Fornax. The Fornax Cluster of galaxies. A spectacular grouping of galaxies. I spied out this cluster of galaxies this last Saturday night for the first time. A casual observation with my 10" scope counted 14 galaxies in very close proximaty, with NGC 1365 being one of the brightest barred spirals (one of last month's targets)
NGC 1792 & 1808 - in Columba. Two spiral galaxies that are close in the single field of view.
NGC 1487 - in Eriandus. The faintest galaxy Dunlop found. An interesting 'starburst galaxy' with massive stellar formation happening.

Planetary Nebula

NGC 1535 - in Eriandus. One of the brighter examples of a planetary nebula.

Part II

This second part is a selection of targets that highlight certain gems of the summer sky. Most of these targets will also be easier to acquire than most of the Dunlop targets.

M 42 The Great Nebula, in Orion. One of the most photographed targets by amateur astronomers, this distinctly fan shaped nebula offers masses of detail for all sizes of scopes. The largest of amateur scopes begin to reveal distinc pink and green colouration.

Mira, The Wonderful, in Cetus. The first variable star to be identified. This red star varies in brightness from a magnitude 2 at its brightest, down to nearly magnitude 10 at its dimmest over an 11 month period. It is currently just on its maximum brightness. The mechanism which causes this pulsation is thought to be the stage of its evolution which sees the pull of gravity & an irregular burning of its hydrogen fuel push and pull on the star, varying its brightness.

M45 The Pleiades, in Taurus. Also known as The Seven Sisters, and as Subaru in Japan (noticed the car maker's logo is the same as this cluster? No coincidense). This is a young open cluster of massive blue stars. Its remanent gas and dust cocoon still faintly visible in larger scopes, where a nebula filter may help with its observation. The distance of this cluster from us sees the current light we observe having left this cluster when Christopher Columbus discovered the Americas more than 500 years ago.

B33, the Horsehead Nebula, in Orion. This is a feature of the faint emission nebula IC 434. This faint feature is also known as a 'dark pillar'. This is a really tough bugger to spot. Reputedly seen in scopes as small a 6", a 10" is more likely to just, just make it visible and only in very dark skies. A specialised Hydrogen-Beta filter, or a UHC filter at a pinch, will greatly help show this very faint shadow against a very faint glow of its associated nebula.

Again, any other suggestions?

It's been a pleasure to compile this series of monthly challenges this year. I hope they have been of assistance to your observing pleasure and apprieciation of the night sky.

Merry Christmas everyone, :xmas: :family2: :reindeer: :family:

Mental.

[Jeeps]

Excellent more items to look for :)

I've been trying to see the Horsehead with my 10" and dark skies but no luck yet. I think i need a really really clear night... and no rain for while ;)

Thanks!

cheers

[mental4astro]

If you are keen on exploring more of the objects James Dunlop discovered, glenc has a thread going on the man and his work, along with many charts and observation notes:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=68087

Observing tips with the Horsehead Nebula:

Jeeps, the Horsey is a notoriously difficult object to observe. Yes, a damn dark sky is mandatory, but knowing where to look and what to look for also helps, and the quality of your eyes and your observation experience adds to the mix of factors.

The following link to an IIS thread deals with this topic very well. It covers observation techniques & tips, plus a chart or two:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=59562

Just one other thing to keep in mind with the Horsey - you will be looking for a dark 'finger' superimposed upon a very, very, very faint nebula. Almost like looking for a shadow on top of another shadow. This is one of the most difficult objects to see with amateur sized scopes!

Observing Galaxies

Saddly those pretty pictures we see of beautiful, graceful spiral floating star islands are not what we see through the eyepiece. Galaxies are also known as "faint fuzzies" as that is how we best see them. The key to see them is very much dependent on your observation technique. A larger telescope helps, but if your obs. technique isn't up to it, you just won't see many of them.

When scanning the area in question that you've narrowed the field to, the trick is to keep your eye open to a soft little blob that when your eye goes back to and the damn thing 'disappears', you've found it!!!

Averted vision is the technique where you look to one side of the object in question to see it better. It works because the most light sensitive area of our eyes surrounds the central focus of our human eyes.

If you still struggle to spot the faint little bugger when the scope is perfectly still, give your scope a little flick to generate a vibration through it. Our eyes are made to 'see' movement, and their sensitivity is reduced if the field we are looking at is still for too long. Ever think about why a rabbit sitting in a field is invisible, but once it moves, even a small amount, it stands out so obviously! Same thing.

I've been aware of this last 'trick' of causing movement in the field of view to 'see' better for more than 20 years. But it was only explained to me in terms of our physiology earlier this year about how and why it works! Thanks Wavytone!

Good luck.

[Paddy]

A great list of items Alex. And thanks for compiling the challenges throughout the year. They've been very rewarding and interesting. I think they've also introduced a lot of us not only to new objects but to new aspects of observing. Not a simple task to put these together and you've done a great job. Hope you'll keep going with it for 2011.

[Suzy]

:thanx: Alexander, and I also echo what Paddy said so well. ;)

It has been constant clouds in Brissy for the last month so I haven't even be able to tackle any of last month's challenges. I've printed them up anyway for whenever the weather clears. If the weather is good for December, it may turn out to be a monster challenge! :help::lol:.

[astroron]

Alex Some very good targets to observe :thumbsup: if only the weather would cooperate:(
I have three scopes sitting in my front room and none has seen any Galaxy light ;) for what seems like an eternity:sadeyes:
But maybe Santa will give us some fine weather for Christmas:xmas::xmas::xmas:

[astroron]

Suzy, It would be interesting to see what you can observe some of those galaxies from your place:astron: but if anyone can see them it will be you.You will surely give them a big nudge:thumbsup:
I look forward to your reports, when mother nature gives us some good weather to take up the challenge :D

[GrampianStars]

NGC-2419 most distant glob known (mag 9.1) (in LynX) from around 2.30am low in the NthEst Dec1st
NGC-2683 Spr Glxy (mag 10.6) :thumbsup: border of cancer from around 3.30am low in the NthEst Dec 1st

M67 (Red cluster) halfwar between Procyon & Regulus

[Suzy]

Thank you Ron - very kind words and encouragement. :)

I've just looked up how many light years away the Fornax cluster of galaxies are, and its :eyepop: 50,000 L/Y. So if one light year equals 6 trillion miles, that's ... forget it, my calculator makes no sense. :screwy:
Not sure if my skills are up to these yet, but I'll give them a go :). May need lots of councilling during and after - could get nasty (hope the possums stay away) :lol:.

I'm ready for my next observing report when the weather plays good as I have just bought a professional looking voice recorder from Jaycar. :D That mobile phone of mine will blind me no more. :P I'm armed and ready :D:D.

[Robh]

That distance should be more like 60 million light years. That's about 5.7x10^20 km or 570 000 000 000 000 000 000 km!

Regards, Rob

[ngcles]

Hi Rob & All,



NGC 2419 is a fascinating object and is certainly among the easiest of the remote outer-halo globs to observe visually, but at 84.2Kpc distance, it isn't the most remote of all.

Eridanus (90.2Kpc), Palomar 3 (92.7Kpc), Palomar 4 (109.2 Kpc) and Arp-Madore 1 (121.9Kpc) are all more distant from the Sun and more distant (in that same order) from the galactic centre (1 Kpc = 3,260 ly) thereby placing AM 1 at almost 400,000ly and NGC 2419 at about 275,000ly. Yet all are gravitationally bound to the Milky Way!

Have seen Pal 3 in 31cm, Pal 4 in 46cm (both are extremely difficult targets) but not the other two. To see the other two ... you're going to need a bigger telescope !

Interestingly, NGC 2419 is intrinsically (ie in absolute magnitude and therefore almost certainly mass) the 4th brightest Milky Way globular after Omega Centauri (NGC 5139), M54 and NGC 6388. An amateur observer situated in the Andromeda Galaxy (M31) would find NGC 2419 the easiest of the Milky Way GC's to observe!


Best,

Les D

[mental4astro]

Grampian, your selections will have me go into relatively uncharted territory, the Northern Sky.

Funny, I'll happily have a go at 47 Tuc while it grazes the horizon, but I'll avoid anything on the opposite side of the sky, :shrug: .

Ta.

[ZeroID]

Look like Xmas will have to wait while I look for thingies in the sky :astron:

If you see a largish chappie in a red suit flash across your view point him in my direction. :xmas:

All the best for Xmas all of you. And thanks to you all for your input to my growing addiction. 15mm Super View in the mail, $$$$ Dang !!!

[michaellxv]

Just catching up on some threads.
Thanks Alex for some interesting targets each month.
Lets not forget it was Orestis who kicked this off at the start of the year. I hope his absence recently means he has been studying hard.

[mental4astro]

With every Challenge I've been writing up, it is Orestis I first think of before any object selection happens! :)

Orestis, your absence of late has been sorely noticed. All the best with school, mate, :thumbsup: .

[glenc]

Thanks Alexander.
Just a clarification the PN NGC 1535 was found by William Herschel in 1785 with an 18.5" speculum reflector.

[glenc]

Attached is a wikisky.org image of the Dunlop OC NGC 2243.

Images and descriptions of the Dunlop globulars are at:
1261 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128570659595186
1851 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128973112977474
2298 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356129015867983026

Images and descriptions of the Dunlop galaxies are at:
1316 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128616355990274
1317 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128628559028530
1365 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128662557418338
1380 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128676375373682
1487 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128738040618578
1792 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128935657903698
1808 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356128950704715810
1792-1808 http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356358844115852706

Greg Bradley had an excellent image of NGC 1316-17 at http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67199&highlight=ngc+1316

[orestis]

Hi Guys I'm Back:eyepop:.

Wow its been so long,I've missed you guys, i have only been popping in for brief viewings.

I have been busy with end of year exams all last 2 weeks and i just had a trigonometry test today.And the times were I had a a bit of time to spare for astronomy it was cloudy.Its been cloudy for so long here, hope you guys have had better weather.

I Will just like Say a very Sincere Thanks to all of the Observing Forum for contributing to my enjoyment of astronomy.A Big Thanks to Alex for keeping the challenge going, this month's challenge is awesome and I can't wait for holidays to have a go.:thumbsup:.

I hope to catch up with all of you guys.

Cheers Orestis:D
PS-Merry Xmas everybody and a Happy new year:party:

[barx1963]

Nice list Mental
So far have done

NGC 2243
NGC 1261
NGC 2298
NGC 1792 and 1808
NGC 1535

I have previously done
NGC 1316 and 1317 (Would suggest those with dobs go for these early in the evening or well after midnight, very near the "hole" when I tried for them again last night!)
NGC 1365

Malcolm

The other December obs I will try for clouds permitting!

[glenc]

Last night I looked at NGCs 1261, 1851, 2298, 1316, 1365, 1380, 1808, M42 and M45 with 20x80 binos.
NGC 1851 is very bright in 20x80s and NGCs 1261 and 1316 are bright in binos. NGCs 2298 and 1365 are faint, and NGCs 1380 and 1808 are very faint in 20x80s.
I used a 12" Dob to see NGCs 1317 and 1792. Mira is fading now, but still easy with the naked eye.

[Paddy]

I reckon the December/January observing challenge is observing at all.

[barx1963]

Completed the December Challenge!!:D:D

Observed 3/12
NGC 1535

Observed 8/12
NGC 2243
NGC 1261
NGC 1851
NGC 2298
NGC 1792
NGC 1808

Observed 28/12
NGC 1316
NGC 1317
NGC 1365
NGC 1380
NGC 1487

Got the last five last night, really nice skies nabbed lotsa galaxies in Fornax incuding some really faint ones and even managed to get NGC 2024 (The Flame neb in Orion) for the first time in my backyard!:D
I will post a full report when I have written it all down from my notes.

Malcolm

[glenc]

Saw lots of nebulae, they were blowing in the wind.
(The term was formerly used of any hazy, seemingly cloud like object)

[mental4astro]

Well done, Malcom. Alas for me, the situation is like Glen's. And so far, when it has been clear, it has been for Lunar work.

And a double well done with the Flame Nebula. If it wasn't so close to the Horsey, on its own I'm sure it would have a bigger 'fan club'. It is subtle, yet detailed as you describe in your Obs. report. It's one of my fav's.

[M110]

lol. I think cloud formations should be added to the list. Am having more luck seeing them. Or maybe we should all change our hobby to meteorology.

[ZeroID]

Amen to that. We've had one clear night in the last two weeks and I was otherwise engaged on that night. It's hot, muggy and cloudy with rain predicted, I can't even get a good nights sleep. :shrug:

All the best for the new year guys anyway.:thumbsup:

[mental4astro]

Hi all.

I only had a short session tonight. Wasn't even ment to be a "true" session. I had bought an adaptor to use 1.25" eyepieces in my nearly 30 year old Tasco 2" refractor, with the hope of making it into a finder, I finally got to try it out. What I wasn't expecting was the image I got of M42! Even the eyepiece I was using was a modest Super Plossl 25mm.

Way-back-when, all I could "see" of M42 was the bright, tight fan shaped region around the Trapesium. Tonight, with all the extra light pollution here in my home in Sydney, but with 30 years experience, Bugger Me I could now make out soft, faint extensions radiating out from this brighter core!!! :eyepop:

These were no mistake. Two distinct filaments radiated out from the base of the nebula, slowly expanding out and reducing in brightness as the moved out, but also there was a distinct dark demarkation cutting a boundary to the lower portion. The rest of the internal area of M42 was also filled with detailed, soft markings, though not as distinct, yet with a definite darker eastern half.

I also saw three stars that form the Trapesium. And the Fish Mouth, dark and prominent. I never imagined I'd see a dark pillar through a 2" scope!

Also seeable was the small 'ball-like' nebula immediately below the Trapesium.

Even a soft glow of nebulosity was seen around where the Running Man nebula is! Freaking unreal!! :cool:

I managed to find a sketch of M42 done by Charles Messier. Mine is not dissimilar to his.

I did use an OIII filter to bring out the details.

Never, ever did I imagine all this was 'seeable' with a 2" refractor, and from Sydney!

This sketch is also the first I've done next to the eyepiece since my meeting with the fantastic astro sketcher Scott Mellish, whose many sketches grace the gallery of the ASOD (Astronomy Sketch Of the Day) web site.

Scott, your technique has totally changed the way I approach DSO with a pencil & paper, and a dry paint brush, :thumbsup: .

Am I excited, or what!

Sketch summary:
Gear: 2" f/12 refractor
Eyepiece: 25mm Super Plossl, 24X
Filter: OIII
Media: white pastel, white & black charcoal on black paper
Date: 30th December 2010
Location: my backyard, Sydney

[glenc]

You did well to see the running man with a 2" scope Alexander!

[orestis]

Awesome sketch Alex:thumbsup:.

It seems we both did a sketch of m42 on the same night here is my attempt http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=671035#post671035

At least I got some of the challenge done :D

Cheers Orestis:)

[Rob_K]

Thanks Rob! Your post jogged my memory that I'd left the quest for difficult globs drift off over the past few years. NGC 2419 in Lynx is one that I assumed didn't get above my hilly horizon, but checking last night I found that it just managed to scrape in. SEDS data has it at mag 10.4 - some other sources have it at 9.1. :shrug: The skies were fairly good but not brilliant low in the north, though the main prob was dark adaptation seeing as I'd been processing images on the computer for hours! 4.5" f8 reflector & 21 mm Celestron X-Cel eyepiece.

NGC 2419 initially showed as a tiny, very faint glow perhaps an arcminute in diameter, roughly in line with two bright stars (mag 7-8) and about the star-spacing to the east. As my eyes got better adapted I could hold it quite well. With the distant treeline slicing into the field, I eventually managed to get flickerings of an extension, perhaps 3 arcminutes in diameter.

Not much, but that is the 104th MW globular cluster I've seen through the little scope. :D

It was late (around 2am) but I did attend to some 'unfinished business' - planetary nebula NGC 2438 hiding in oc NGC 2437 (M47). I could only see it in averted vision, a small faint round glow on the edge the cluster, nothing to write home about through my scope!

Cheers -

[pgc hunter]

Excellent sketch Alex. Very nice blending and transitions in that one. That does look like Messier's version!

That's a notable accomplishment with a 4.5" scope Rob and a testament to your skills!

[Paddy]

Great sketch Alex - amazing what you've done with a 2" scope. And as you say, years of observing experience. Both you and Rob clearly show what can be done with modest equipment. And Orestis is not far off either..

[mental4astro]

Rob, 104 globulars with a 4.5", most impressive!

Do you have a nebular filter of any type in your kit? The reason I ask is two fold:

* They can help with seeing nebulae.

* I'd be interested in your observations of the Eta Carina nebula through your scope. It would be interesting to hear about the smallest apeture through with its many dark pillars.

[Rob_K]

Thanks Alex! I have a range of filters, but never really use them. I like the full view - a weirdly coloured neb with no stars just doesn't cut it for me! :lol: I did find my neb filter useful once in isolating Thor's Helmet, but even then I could see it OK (filterless) in the rich starfield. I think filters are better for bigger apertures where you've got more light to burn.

Eta Carinae nebula is brilliant in my scope at low powers. Dark lanes, rich nebulosity, bright stars - such a wide field! But I can't make out the homonculus (yet!!! :P ).

Cheers -

[mental4astro]

Rob, do you do your observing from a dark site? I can then see why a neb. filter might not be too much help. I find them invaluble from my home though. Even when I used the OIII with the 2", it did help clean up the light pollution. I too found at a dark site, filters where, well, "so what" more or less. For some details they can help but the image neat is excellent with out a filter.

The dark pillars I mentioned in my previous post are those related to Bok Globuals. They rise into the brighter part of the nebula like half a dozen black, skeletal fingers, knotty and knarly.

[Rob_K]

Yep, I'm at a nice dark site Alex, NELM consistently above 6 (if you discount 2010, what a year of rubbish skies :mad2: :P ). If I was in a light polluted area the 4.5" would not be good enough, even with an LP filter. The trick with small apertures is dark site, low powers.

I agree about the 'neat' image. However if you've got a big scope with a good mirror, teasing out nebula detail with a suitable filter is very rewarding - Tim Nott's 22" is a stand-out IMO, wow! With a little scope, it's like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! :sadeyes: :lol:

Cheers -

[ngcles]

Hi Rob & All,



Not much to add? Well I'll add a pat on the back -- 104 G.Cs in that aperture is very, very impressive. Congratulations ... and NGC 2419 is a very tough ask in that aperture so ... :prey2::prey2::prey2:


Best,

Les D

P.S ... there goes my emoticon allowance for the month.

[barx1963]

Having got all the December objects (thanks for making some interesting challenges Alex) I am having a look at the January ones. Though I maght take a different approach with a couple of the objects. First cab of the rank is M42, yeah I know M42, been there done that, but I thought what haven't I seen yet? Came up with colour. And yes I am sure I saw colour, the area arounf the trapezium was a distinct pale green and the southern fainter bits took on a distinct pink hue. Effect was most noticable at 67x with the 24mm pan. The 34 mm gave no colour at all and the 13mm Nag at 115x gave just a hint. I think the 24mm allows the neb to fill the field which helps with contrast. Also I focused on not looking at the bright bits but let the colour of the fainter extensions grow on me which seemed to enhance the colour.

Malcolm

[mental4astro]

Colour, Malcom, groovy baby! Yeah!

If colour is not a good option for your eyes, then see to make out the wispy, smoke like details in the veil. The variations in density can really intensify the 3D effect.

M42 was one of the first objects, if not the first, I looked at through my 17.5" when it got into my hands. I nearly fell over backwards then, and I still do a double-take now. Extraordinary.

[Rob_K]

Thanks Les - I suppose I've blown my Brownie points now with the Crux names....:sadeyes: ;)

Well I had a shot at a few of the targets tonight - absolutely lovely dark skies and a shame I couldn't spend longer outside. Viewing using Tasco 4.5" f8 reflector and 21mm Celestron X-Cel eyepiece (43x).

Open cluster NGC 2243 in Canis Major was just a small dim background glow to me, not unlike a distant faint glob. Averted vision helped but not much to see. Globular cluster NGC 1261 is a gem, a lovely round bright centrally-condensed globular. NGC 2298 was much dimmer, slightly larger and less centrally-condensed. It seemed off-round to me. Missed NGC 1851, too hard right near the zenith and I didn't have detailed charts.

Had a quick scan around the Fornax galaxy cluster - lots of little fainties but I did that area in detail in an earlier obs report. Couldn't get much out of NGC 1365, one day I'm gonna see the bar! :lol: NGC 1792 & 1808 in Columba were very nice, and I can't remember seeing them before. Both were very obvious scanning through the field, but I think I was lucky as there were zenith probs with these too. 1808 seemed the more edge-on to me - 1792 was slightly more oval-shaped. Both were fairly even glows (no bright nuclei showing), with slight extensions visible in averted vision. Separation was just over half the FOV. Didn't bother with galaxy NGC 1487 in Eridanus - at mag 12.3 it is probably out of my range, but in any case detailed charts and the investment of a slab of time would have been required (lazy astronomer!).

Planetary nebula NGC 1535 in Eridanus was bright but tiny, with no detail visible. I didn't have my 8mm EP outside so I left it fairly quickly.

Of Part II, I only had a look at M42 & M45. M42 was beautiful - you can tell you've got good conditions when it shows a really creamy texture, smooth as silk! Running Man was showing well, as was the Flame Nebula. Horsehead? Well, in my dreams! :P Pleiades cluster was brilliant using the 40mm eyepiece.

Saw lots of other stuff - Eta Carinae nebula, Southern Pleiades, Tarantula Nebula, Omega Centauri, 47 Tucanae, NGC 2287 (brilliant open cluster near Sirius), Jewel Box etc etc.

Cheers -

[glenc]

Well done Rob. Amazing what you can see with a 4.5"!

[michaellxv]

I have had a couple of goes at finding NGC1808 and NGC1792 now without success. I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat about star hopping but I am reasonably sure I am in the right area of sky. I have just checked using Stellarium in ocular mode and the stars look the same as I saw last night, just couldn't see the galaxy :(

Assuming I am not completely lost should I be able to see these from my backyard? Or is this a measure of the amount of local light polution?

[pgc hunter]

Both of those should be fairly easy for a 10" newt. How bad is your light pollution? Even relatively bright galaxies can be hidden by LP so you'll want atleast moderately dark skies. What eyepiece/magnification are you using? Low powers render the background sky brighter so in situations with LP the contrast between the galaxy and sky will be low. When you zero in on the area, try a higher mag, about 150-200x, to darken the background sky and increase contrast.

[Rob_K]

You will be able to see them in a 10" Michael so maybe it is a measure of local light pollution. I would rate them as considerably easier to see than, say, the galaxies of the Grus Quartet, at least in my scope. Maybe you could print out a screen shot from Stellarium and double check the star patterns in the FOV to make sure you're in exactly the right spot. I often print out screen shots from Starry Night to help me with really dim things. Use low powers too. Good luck! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Oops, beat me to it pgc!!

Cheers -

[michaellxv]

Thanks, I will give that a try if the weather holds out.
Naked eye I can only just see Omi Columba and only then because I know it's there. Light polution is quite bad, after only a few minutes outside I can walk around and avoid everything except the woofer eggs.

[pgc hunter]

Omi Columba?

Do you mean Omicron? If so, its magnitude is 4.8, so it sounds like your skies aren't severely light polluted. You should be able to see those galaxies. Be aware though, don't expect them to "jump" out at you. Study the field for a bit, allowing your eyes to adjust to the fainter objects. Jiggling the optical tube slightly also helps with seeing faint diffuse objects.

Rob's Idea of printing off charts is a good one, you can also try printing off DSS images of the galaxies and use the field stars as reference. I do that all the time and really helps with knowing what to expect and pinpointing the exact location relative to the faint field stars.

[glenc]

Michael here is an image to help you http://picasaweb.google.com/dunlop1826/Dunlop28#5356358844115852706

[michaellxv]

Thanks for the picture that should help.
I now have more charts than I know what to do with:screwy:, I did manage to get Sky Charts to print one in a large scale that I can read in the dark.

Just need the clouds to go away now.